Login / Manage membership        Not receiving GetUp emails? Join now to receive updates There are currently 342592 members.

The First Anniversary of The Report. By Rex Wild QC, Co-Author of The Little Children Are Sacred Report

Posted on the campaign blog , June 26th, 2008
Rex Wild QC, Co-Author of the Little Children Are Sacred Report that provided the basis for the Government's Emergency Response last year writes exclusively for GetUp on the one-year anniversary of the NT Intervention.
_________________________________________________________________

It is sad indeed that the first anniversary of the public release of the Little Children are Sacred Report, and the close-following Commonwealth intervention, has been attended by national public protest rather than by celebrations. Celebrations that would have acknowledged what should have been the recognition finally accorded by Governments to the need to provide proper support and funding to Indigenous Australians, and the mutual assistance of Governments and the people to overcome social and economic disadvantage and dysfunctionality.

Our first recommendation was in these terms:

That Aboriginal child sexual abuse in the Northern Territory be designated as an issue of urgent national significance by both the Australian and Northern Territory Governments and both Governments immediately establish a collaborative partnership with a Memorandum of Understanding to specifically address the protection of Aboriginal children from sexual abuse. It is critical that both Governments commit to genuine consultation with Aboriginal people in designing initiatives for Aboriginal communities.

It was always our hope, in presenting the report to the Chief Minister, that it would find its way to Canberra and hopefully land on the Prime Minister’s desk. It was obvious, from our perspective, that this was a matter of national significance and required the cooperation of the Commonwealth and Territory Governments (and, as it turns out other Governments throughout Australia). It was important in our view that the goodwill established with the Aboriginal people during our Inquiry, and the exposure of the curse of sexual abuse, be used as the basis and starting point for an attack upon it.

It is against the whole of this background that we have considered the response that has been made by the Commonwealth Government. So, although we as the co-authors of the report were very happy that our report had landed on the Prime Minister’s desk and it had played some part obviously in his decision to do something about the plight of Aboriginal people, it seems to us that they, being successive Commonwealth Governments, have missed the central point of our recommendations. They read, and acted upon, the first sentence of the first recommendation and ignored the rest. That recommendation, set out above, was absolutely clear. No solution should be imposed from above.

We regarded it as of critical importance that Governments commit to genuine consultation with Aboriginal people in designing initiatives for their communities. That was a recommendation in line with what every other study prior to that time had found. That is, that community involvement of indigenous people with the Government should be designed as a bottom-up rather than top-down approach. When the Prime Minister and his Indigenous Affairs Minister initially announced their emergency response, which included the imminent mobilisation of the military, they deliberately refrained from consultation with the Northern Territory Government and Aboriginal people. They “consulted” with the Canberra bureaucracy!

Many communities throughout Australia have of course welcomed intervention. It is consistent with the desires of communities that there be attention given to the underlying causes of the malaise. One of the central tenets of our recommendations was that this whole procedure required the cooperation of the three major stakeholders (the two Governments and the Aboriginal communities) and that the predominant role of the Commonwealth would be to provide the funding necessary. As it is, the Commonwealth bureaucracy has taken over!

Sign GetUp's petition: 'Roll Back, Not Roll Out' now:

www.getup.org.au/campaign/RollBackNotRollOut

GetUp has been visiting NT communities affected by the intervention. Click here to view the video blogs!

30 comments

Leave Your Comment

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
Campaign Blogs
This blog post is from the Campaign Roll Back, Not Roll Out.
Blog Tools

Featured Articles

Join us on COPtv
Francois Chemillier
From Canberra to Copenhagen
Mark Connelly
Paid parental leave: we can't afford to delay
Anna Saulwick
What does a Human Rights Consultation look like?
Christopher Brew
Latest Comments
Campaign Blogs

Join Getup

Whether it is signing a petition, engaging with the media, attending an event or helping to get a television ad on the air, you'll only ever asked to take targeted, coordinated and strategic action. Taking action is optional, convenient and proven to work!
Join Now.

Subscribe!



Fong of the Inland
June 26th, 2008

You sound incredibly naive, Rex Wild, and you have still not admitted that you have played into the hands of the Howard government and, latterly, the Rudd government's dubious agenda in continuing to perpetrate the Intervention despite all the human rights issues involved. How cute of you to tottaly ignore that in your comments today.

It would be more correct to say that "many communities throughout Australia have of course welcomed the ATTENTION given but NOT the Intervention. Sadly, though, there has been little or nothing to show for that anyway and you have also cutely overlooked the fact that 1,000's of indigenous Australians have been harassed and intimidated as a result.

In other words, Rex Wild, you are a liar and a supporter of the repressive Intervention as opposed to genuinely solving any of the issues or ensuring peoples' rights. So typical of a legalist anyway, uhh, but the main isssue you have avoided is that sexual abuse and child neglect is rampant in the white urban Australian community and your NT report is essentially (and intentionally) distracting from that......

Quote: "A CASE of child abuse is reported to Australian authorities every 35 minutes, new research has shown, and government has been called on to do more to stamp it out. The results of a survey conducted by charity Wesley Mission found high levels of abuse in the community, sparking calls for the appointment of a national independent commission for children and a minister for children.

"We need a national strategy and leadership on the issue to see a reverse in the number of children who experience abuse, neglect or household dysfunction in their childhood,'' Wesley Mission's Reverend Keith Garner said. "A report is made to the police or other agency across Australia every 35 minutes regarding an instance of child abuse, the numbers of notifications have almost doubled over the past five years and our research suggests that many other incidences go unreported.''

The survey of 1200 people over the age of 25 years showed more than half (612) had experienced "adversity'' during childhood. Of those surveyed, 33 per cent had suffered one, or a combination of sexual, physical abuse or violence in the home and 40 per cent had suffered emotional abuse...." [ http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22778776-2702,00.html ]

Beyond Adversity: giving kids a chance to shine: At Wesley Mission, we see the human cost of childhood adversity: our counsellors and care workers engage daily with homelessness, suicide, addiction, mental illness, dysfunctional young people, and children taken into foster care. Many of these problems are caused by abuse, neglect or dysfunction in childhood.... [ http://www.wesleymission.org.au/News/research/Beyond_Adversity/default.asp?ct_from=cb ]

Download the report - [ http://www.wesleymission.org.au/News/research/Beyond_Adversity/Report.asp ]

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Samantha Lodge
June 26th, 2008

Thanks for your insight Rex.

It's great to hear from one of the original proponents of the Children are Sacred report - just goes to show how much politics distort priorities.

On the other hand it's hard for Governments to act upon the advice "no solution can come from above" when Government action is by definition "a top-down approach".

I'm happy to see the Government act, but it worries me that they are being drawn down a path of no return. The last thing I want to see is a policy which the Government knows is failing, but which it is too proud to change.

This is the Government's best chance to re-assess the intervention and I hope they are honest, open and consultative.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
Ricky Ricardo
June 26th, 2008

Fong - Rex was used by the Howard Government, who <"read, and acted upon, the first sentence of the first recommendation and ignored the rest.">

What stinks about the intervention is the continued brash and heavy handed approach. Any plan designed in 48 hours to meet a complicated and delicate situation is bound to be a stinker. It is time we take a more consultative approach.

As for your point on all children in Australia - I agree we need a national approach. There are about 310,000 notifications to child protection authorities each year which end in some 58,000 substantiated cases of child abuse or neglect across the country. Child protection workers are overwhelmed. (http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2284973.htm?source=cmailer)

The figures that accompanied last week's reporting of the NT Intervention's first anniversary showed that after the completion of 7,433 of the intervention's federally mandated checks on children in remote Territory communities, 39 were found to be at risk of serious neglect or abuse.

The point to come back to is we have it all wrong.
Lets roll back the intervention and lets properly approach both indigenous and child abuse issues.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
July 2nd, 2008

Though wise men at their end know dark.....
Because their words had forked no lightning.....
They do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a revelation of Truth...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved the white mens' treachery...
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes like the pretentious gay Chief Justice Kirby.....
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, Rex Wild, there in your sad legalistic swamp...
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray...
Do not go gentle into that good night...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRMe5H9WKpM

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
Marvex2
July 4th, 2008

Gee Fong, how "Rong" can you be, Indigenous people that I talk to at communities are divided on the good and bad of Intervention. Good that finally somethinmg is being done, bad that elements of it effect their basic freedoms. The best description that I have had heard from an Indigenous perspective is this: "White fella stuff like a big storm, lot of thunder, lightning and rain, duck for cover, pretty soon go away. Same same next year" Rex your views are like a breath of fresh air, I dont always agree, but I always want to hear.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
July 8th, 2008

While we are pretending that the "Little Children Are Sacred", lets not forget that Kevin Rudd is guilty of sexism AND child abuse by publicly smearing innocent young female models, reviling their bodies and desperately trying to shame them!!!

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has received a verbal slap in the face today from 11 year old Olympia whose mother, Melbourne photographer Polixeni Papapetrou, took the nude photo of her in 2003 which appeared in the July edition of Art Monthly Australia.

“I'm really, really offended by what Kevin Rudd had to say about this picture,” Olympia said outside her Melbourne home, accompanied by her father, The Age art critic Robert Nelson. “I love the photo so much. It is one of my favourites, if not my favourite photo, my mum has ever taken of me and she has taken so many photos of me..... I think that the picture my mum took of me had nothing to do with being abused and I think nudity can be a part of art.” http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23981750-601,00.html and see VIDEO

But is is AHHHHT, baby??? No doubt such pictures will be misused once they are on the internet which is almost immediately. The main problem, though, seems to be the propensity of politicians to not only spuriously "misuse" the existence of the photos to publicly slander the innocent models but to further their own very dubious ends as regards their deceitful political agendas. That is a form of child abuse in itself, Mr. Rudd and Mr. Iemma and others!

White Anglo Australia has so managed to demonize their own men (fathers) and even photographing or touching one's own children in public that they also seem quite determined in this new age of wowserism to attack any vision of exposed flesh of children whatsoever in public. That is despite their utter denial of child abuse in the general (white) community and their dishonest enthusiasm in persecuting remote indigenous communities.

Apparently white Australia is already on its way back to the 1800's Victorian era after being dragged back to the 1950's by the primitive Cro-Magnon caveman/Neocon, John Howard, if not insanely adopting prehistoric Islamic codes of dress for women and children. So much to be had out of castigating everyone including each other with perceived guilt and shame, uhh. Children must now be made to hate or to revile their own bodies....!!! Where is the morality in any of it, though???

By the way, here is your "two-fingered salute" you were so absurdly raving about, Brendan Nelson - "gofuk yai sif (漢裝)", uhh!!!

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
July 30th, 2008

It seems to me that there has never been so strong a will on the part of the Australian people to see the conditions of indigenous Australians vastly improved, and to see indigenous people take their rightful position as equals in society in all matters from fulfilled expectations to life expectancy

That said, I believe we make a number of fundamental errors in handling the problems, one of which is adherence to mythologies relating to the quality of aboriginal society and its relationship with the land before the arrival of the white man. We seem dominated by two prominent models – one is of the lazy native who had no real ownership of the land (the Terra Nullis concept) the other is of the noble savage in tune with nature. Both are wrong

Aboriginal society has always contained defects just as much as white society has. Both are in need of great adjustment as technology advances and as the need for sustainability becomes more apparent

We seem to be attempting to use one society that is dominated by a patriarchal and patronising structure, by unreason, prejudice, classism and superstition as a mentor for another society, equally dominated in its own way by patriarchal structure, unreason and superstition. Small wonder we are getting nowhere

Reforming Aboriginal society requires that the white man restore the central role of reason in his own society and approaches another culture from within the boundaries of and with motives generated by that reason. In this manner the two societies can pass through the processes of reform together

This requires empowerment of groupings that are themselves dominated by reason and not by sentimental adherence to an outdated spirituality or adherence to mythologies of a past Golden Age destroyed through invasion. It requires the promotion of education and training throughout all areas of Australian society, both black and white, a mutual assault on ignorance classism dispossession and inegalitarianism.

We are failing to advance because the white man has over the centuries just as much lost the sense of values as any supposedly more “primitive” society. He is just as much dominated by a collapsing archaic religion-based spirituality and morality as those he seeks to dominate or mentor, and Aboriginal society rightly recognises this and that the process cannot work either through persuasion or through compulsion.

The Rudd Government needs to rebuild the thinking that created social democratic and labour-based parties during the nineteenth century, and then to develop its social values from that base into a multicultural and multi racial world through the use of reason.

When it has done that – then and only then will it be capable of a successful “intervention” – one in which we all work together to improve the lot of all Australians and our brethren of all nations worldwide.

Kevin, mate, an outdated, sloppy and increasingly imploding Christianity won’t get us there – it won’t create the values we need. It can only contribute, it cannot dominate the human spirit – those days are over forever. This is the lesson I fear you have yet to learn and it is why actions such as the intervention will always fail, they lack a properly reasoned and communicable code of values and as a result lack attracting aims.

For all our children to be safe and to have proper futures we need an entirely new ethos in Australian society. The nineteenth century in fact began the creation of a new social ethos but its evolution was damaged by the distortions of stalinism and the rise of fascism - as a result of which in many ways the search for a new ethos has been abandoned - being replaced in many groupings by a New Age based pseudo environmentalism

The answer to the future and to present problems lies in a true understanding of the past and in an evolution away from the imposition of religiosity based mores and advancement towards the responsible use of secular reason.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 11th, 2008

Sorry, Rex Wild, but you are still trying to "put lipstick on a pig" with your latest comments.....

# An unfinished business - Rex Wild, September 11, 2008: "Underlying those findings was the common view that sexual abuse of Aboriginal children was occurring largely because of the breakdown of Aboriginal culture and society and the consequent dysfunctionality of communities.....

Many communities throughout Australia have, of course, welcomed intervention. It is consistent with the desires of communities that there be attention given to the underlying causes of the malaise.....

In an interview that I gave more than a year ago, I said: "If the funding doesn't follow the police and the army it will all be a complete waste of time." http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/an-unfinished-business-20080910-4dsh.html?page=-1

Lets look at an example, Kalumburu, in the Northern Kimberley coast of WA. What has happened is totally predictable. It hardly mattered whether the Army did the job or a bunch of Pacific Islanders on temporary work visas and a few experts from somewhere in South Asia.

What had needed to be done for so long was finally being addressed - but still only temporarily. Of course the people were happy - they were finally getting some attention as a normal community should. But that is still not either respect or an apology.

What is worse, though, is that much of the work done could have been funded as employment for the people in the community. Instead, it has bee contracted out, most probably to Labor "mates", and the communuity still has no ongoing means of sustaining a living.

So the community will be left short, other communities have been ignored or made to wait - and white Australia can please itself by saying "There, I told you so!". No, that is just another step along the path of mismanagement and callous lack of care that Anglo Australia has turned its back upon for so long.

# From hopelessness to healing - Lindsay Murdoch, Kalumburu - September 10, 2008: "Leonie Cameron, the community's chief executive officer, said residents could not look outsiders in the eye or smile. But almost 12 months later, Kalumburu has undergone a remarkable transformation, thanks to a friendly invasion by the Australian Defence Force.....

"People are now smiling and happy … there is now hope," Ms Cameron said. Under a program funded by the Federal Government and delivered by the army, a temporary army base was built in low scrub a few kilometres from Kalumburu three months ago.....

Since then 130 soldiers, many of them skilled tradesmen, have been building a $1.6 million health clinic, delivering health training programs, resealing the local airstrip, redeveloping a barge landing and rebuilding dirt roads. Len Rouwhorst, the operation commander, said the work was "part of the healing process … it came at a very good time for the community"...." http://www.theage.com.au/national/from-hopelessness-to-healing-20080909-4d27.html

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 11th, 2008

Sorry, Rex Wild, but you are still trying to "put lipstick on a pig" with your latest comments.....

# An unfinished business - Rex Wild, September 11, 2008: "Underlying those findings was the common view that sexual abuse of Aboriginal children was occurring largely because of the breakdown of Aboriginal culture and society and the consequent dysfunctionality of communities.....

Many communities throughout Australia have, of course, welcomed intervention. It is consistent with the desires of communities that there be attention given to the underlying causes of the malaise.....

In an interview that I gave more than a year ago, I said: "If the funding doesn't follow the police and the army it will all be a complete waste of time." http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/an-unfinished-business-20080910-4dsh.html?page=-1 *

Lets look at an example, Kalumburu, in the Northern Kimberley coast of WA. What has happened is totally predictable. It hardly mattered whether the Army did the job or a bunch of Pacific Islanders on temporary work visas and a few experts from somewhere in South Asia.

What had needed to be done for so long was finally being addressed - but still only temporarily. Of course the people were happy - they were finally getting some attention as a normal community should. But that is still not either respect or an apology.

What is worse, though, is that much of the work done could have been funded as employment for the people in the community. Instead, it has bee contracted out, most probably to Labor "mates", and the communuity still has no ongoing means of sustaining a living.

So the community will be left short, other communities have been ignored or made to wait - and white Australia can please itself by saying "There, I told you so!". No, that is just another step along the path of mismanagement and callous lack of care that Anglo Australia has turned its back upon for so long.

# From hopelessness to healing - Lindsay Murdoch, Kalumburu - September 10, 2008: "Leonie Cameron, the community's chief executive officer, said residents could not look outsiders in the eye or smile. But almost 12 months later, Kalumburu has undergone a remarkable transformation, thanks to a friendly invasion by the Australian Defence Force.....

"People are now smiling and happy … there is now hope," Ms Cameron said. Under a program funded by the Federal Government and delivered by the army, a temporary army base was built in low scrub a few kilometres from Kalumburu three months ago.....

Since then 130 soldiers, many of them skilled tradesmen, have been building a $1.6 million health clinic, delivering health training programs, resealing the local airstrip, redeveloping a barge landing and rebuilding dirt roads. Len Rouwhorst, the operation commander, said the work was "part of the healing process … it came at a very good time for the community"...." http://www.theage.com.au/national/from-hopelessness-to-healing-20080909-4d27.html *

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The voice of reason
October 1st, 2008

Mr Fong:

Your rants about Mr Wild and the associated diarrhea you so willingly blurt onto this page (or mostly cut and paste) are becoming tiresome.

Can't you please educate yourself about such matters and keep the comment relevant and factual. There are surely other avenues to express your anti-government bent...

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 12th, 2008

Oh well it keeps me off the streets I suppose, but sometimes my occasional hobby of trying to figure out what Fong and the rest of the quartet are on about is defeated by the sheer contortions of the material under scrutiny

Get the latest one:

“What had needed to be done for so long was finally being addressed - but still only temporarily. Of course the people were happy - they were finally getting some attention as a normal community should. But that is still not either respect or an apology. 



What is worse, though, is that much of the work done could have been funded as employment for the people in the community. Instead, it has been contracted out, most probably to Labor "mates", and the community still has no ongoing means of sustaining a living.
”

Firstly Fong we are talking about an “intervention” and, whether or not it should be occurring, I am puzzled by your own surprise that this sort of action is not the same as “either respect or an apology”

In the hope that you can recognize an intervention in future, I’d like to point out that respect and apology rarely form part of an intervention. Intervening forces – especially those that are carrying out what in part is a police action, do not usually say “excuse me” – they get on with the job they have been given. Their orders do not come from the community in which they are intervening, but from their own command and administrative structure.

Next Fong you seem to seek to have serious problems in the aboriginal community – such as sexual abuse of minors - treated as a job creation opportunity. So in your mad world the idea seems to be that you reward the problem creating sector by giving them jobs bringing themselves in line and fixing their own damage.

Now that seems similar to me to paying an arsonist for burning down your building and promising him more work so long as he continues creating MORE burnt out buildings

I am not offering a solution here but I too hear the stories brought back from these areas by people I have met, who have been there. One was so shocked with what she saw in these communities she was quite badly traumatised

I don’t even know if for the existing people there is a solution. I’d like to hope so. But I do perceive that these communities have never succeeded in fixing themselves.

Years ago I lived on the edge of the Block in Sydney, in a house in which every window was barred and outside doors had double locks. At the same time however I would walk through the Block Streets every day on the way to work in the city - and the atmosphere was quite friendly – although my car was broken into and ransacked.

But that was before the drug dealers moved in, before houses were burnt down etc - before the riots.

I avoid that area now.

There are faults on all sides. Attacking the “big bad white man” in this day and age will get no-one anywhere. Opposing any form of intervention will also get you nowhere

What I would like to hear someone say is what WILL help. In thirty years I have seen Australian attitudes towards indigenous people vastly improve, to the point where reconciliation and apology were supported by the general populace

But so far as I can see many of the communities themselves are in an even worse state than they were thirty years ago.

Fong’s post is beset by thy usual Fong attitude problem. It attacks the actions of others but proposes no alternate scheme. As such I respectfully point out that it is really part of the problem itself

Oh and one final question – with regard to some of the worst examples of peoples behaviour – in all communities, black and white- apart from a persons legal rights what exactly is one supposed to be “respecting” and why is one expected to apologise for stopping it – intervening in fact . Isn’t the real question one of what exactly is going on?

Just asking.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 12th, 2008

Ahhh, caught you blogging whilst drunk in charge of a keyboard again, eh? "You ain't nuthin but a hound dawg - crappin' all the time", (lower case "p") phildeerhound! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=We8P_Ww27hY *

My daughter used to live down from "the block" in Redfern too, once, on the University side. All of those buildings nearby are from the 1800's and were all built with bars on the ground floor windows, at least, anyway. That only shows what a rotten bunch white folks really were back then and how primitive white society actually was, uhh. Most houses anywhere have "double locks" on external doors now, too.

# "I am not offering a solution here..... I don’t even know if for the existing people there is a solution..... usual Fong attitude problem...... attacks the actions of others but proposes no alternate scheme..... Opposing any form of intervention will also get you nowhere..... what exactly is one supposed to be “respecting”..... What I would like to hear someone say is what WILL help..."

So much for your prejudiced and jaundiced ravings, (lower case "p") phildeerhound. I have no intention of responding and I note that, as per usual, you have used negativity (or 'nag-a-tivity', duh) to avoid the main issues whilst failing to ever produce any solution. You are really just another Anglo abuser.

Others will more easily succeed in working out the issues, the problems and the solutions by this timely comparison. It only takes a little intellignece and compassion. Note also that it is in another Anglo-Celtic dominated country:-

"More than a week after Hurricane Gustav spared the city of New Orleans, some gulf coast communities are still dealing with the storm's destruction..... One Native American community has received no government assistance despite being devastated by Gustav..." http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxj2Q43szo&sdig=1

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The GetUp team
September 15th, 2008

Fong,

May we once again remind you that abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated and comments that are aggressive towards other bloggers may be removed.

The GetUp team

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
honest john
January 1st, 2009

The GetUp team i note your warning to Fong but having been witness to "the fix the blackfella gravy train" i tend to agree with him as an indigenous australian. i note there are few indigenious point of view onj get-up & to identify oneself as indigenous has recieved derogitory insults with no comment from the getup team . please be consistant at least or give free rein to everyone. i note that maybe some get-up members may not wish to identify themselves as indigenous but others do.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 13th, 2008

All raving and no proposed solution – Just the claim that “It only takes a little intelligence and compassion”

Secret business no doubt, Fong – The phoney assertion one "really could answer but one chooses not to" – that one has some "special indigenous connection" but is too dignified etc

And anyway- it is all a product of “Anglo abusers”, the sexual abusers and petrol sniffers in your fantasies are just innocent victims, as are the people who bash their wives – all victims of “Anglo mentality”

Heard it all before, Fong. Rubbish then – rubbish now

The will is there to fix problems that you seem to have become attached to, whilst currently the people themselves in the communities are collateral damage of such unhelpful attitudes as yours.

What’s the problem - ”spiritual breakdown” no doubt – The old AA cultist answer from 1935 dressed in indigenous guise – a product of the Oxford Groups that became “Moral Rearmament” – and that latter group actually did have a right wing and CIA connection

Look it up. You are on a wild goose chase, Fong.

Coming back to the original header – I note two passages there:

The first – “We regarded it as of critical importance that Governments commit to genuine consultation with Aboriginal people in designing initiatives for their communities. That was a recommendation in line with what every other study prior to that time had found. That is, that community involvement of indigenous people with the Government should be designed as a bottom-up rather than top-down approach.”

No problem with that so long as there is some mechanism and will and authority and strength at “the bottom” to “go up” from”

The second passage: “Many communities throughout Australia have of course welcomed intervention. It is consistent with the desires of communities that there be attention given to the underlying causes of the malaise. One of the central tenets of our recommendations was that this whole procedure required the cooperation of the three major stakeholders (the two Governments and the Aboriginal communities) and that the predominant role of the Commonwealth would be to provide the funding necessary. As it is, the Commonwealth bureaucracy has taken over!”

That is a reasonable complaint so long as one can demonstrate that there is an alternative possible structure to deal with an emergency situation

State intervention is not the “unusual” thing it is claimed to be. Were we dealing with Anglo areas or any other ethnicity the intervention would have been just as high and very much earlier.

What we need now are long-term solutions, and I would start by asking the question “could these communities ever be made viable?”

Welfare payments could be seen as attempting to subsidise impossible situations, propping up communities that otherwise might seek viability elsewhere. Do future generations really have any hope or opportunity in these artificially propped up remote locations? – Is the money really being used merely to keep these people away? Is what we really have a policy of social exclusion backed on the aboriginal side that parallels a policy of geographically based economic and social exclusion on the authorities side?

That is the kind of question that needs asking. I am sure that if I moved into the middle of nowhere and claimed welfare on the basis that there was no work there I’d very quickly be told to get real.

The bottom line seems to me that local communities need to demonstrate their viability, and where income is available from areas such as mineral resource licences the money should be used to build practical permanent infrastructure and not squandered. For this source too will run out.


Like many non-indigenous people I am open to being convinced – but by facts – not by assertions and hardly by the airy fairy mythology based ideas of some whose time might be better spent counting the fairies on the fence

Maybe we need something akin to a "ten year programme" with set targets that are adhered to

And these targets should be very ambitious and their fulfillment monitored by a standing commission

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 13th, 2008

Abandoned outback a 'failed state' - thus proven conclusively that it is not issues to do with "blacks" or their communities but rather with the failed mindset of white Anglo Australians:-

Quote: "REMOTE Australia is a failed state that is becoming a threat to national security and vulnerable to possible invasion because of government inaction and ineptitude, a major report to be released next week has found.....

As the global power base shifts to India, China and Southeast Asia, Australians are retreating to the southeast and southwest corners of the country, leaving sparsely populated vast tracts of land to their north vulnerable to a "perfect storm" of social, economic and ecological crises.....

In a wide-ranging critique that applies to 85 per cent of the continent's landmass, 28 prominent Australians have warned the nation's vast income-generating resource zones could end up being "contested", as crumbling infrastructure and declining populations turn remote Australia into a largely unsettled wilderness.....

They criticise an "expeditionary" attitude in which transient workers fly in to Australia's arid and tropical regions, extracting wealth that is not reinvested in local communities already crippled by lack of resources and poor governance..." http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24338329-601,00.html *

That also proves the utter incompetence of the Labor federal regime which has supinely endorsed the Howard line on the useless Intervention. Again, yet another bunch of incompetent self-serving lawyers and their gamngster mates, uhh.

That is another reason why there could be a new federal government as soon as next week! Just add their climate change fake emissions trading scheme and the pensioner fiasco and there are sufficient reasomns to sack the Ruddd government.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 13th, 2008

Abandoned outback a 'failed state' - thus proven conclusively that it is not issues to do with "blacks" or their communities but rather with the failed mindset of white Anglo Australians:-

Quote: "REMOTE Australia is a failed state that is becoming a threat to national security and vulnerable to possible invasion because of government inaction and ineptitude, a major report to be released next week has found.....

As the global power base shifts to India, China and Southeast Asia, Australians are retreating to the southeast and southwest corners of the country, leaving sparsely populated vast tracts of land to their north vulnerable to a "perfect storm" of social, economic and ecological crises.....

In a wide-ranging critique that applies to 85 per cent of the continent's landmass, 28 prominent Australians have warned the nation's vast income-generating resource zones could end up being "contested", as crumbling infrastructure and declining populations turn remote Australia into a largely unsettled wilderness.....

They criticise an "expeditionary" attitude in which transient workers fly in to Australia's arid and tropical regions, extracting wealth that is not reinvested in local communities already crippled by lack of resources and poor governance..." http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24338329-601,00.html

That also proves the utter incompetence of the Labor federal regime which has supinely endorsed the Howard line on the useless Intervention. Again, yet another bunch of incompetent self-serving lawyers and their gamngster mates, uhh.

That is another reason why there could be a new federal government as soon as next week! Just add their climate change fake emissions trading scheme and the pensioner fiasco and there are sufficient reasomns to sack the Ruddd government.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 13th, 2008

In the latest rave from the usual stable we read:

“That also proves the utter incompetence of the Labor federal regime which has supinely endorsed the Howard line on the useless Intervention. Again, yet another bunch of incompetent self-serving lawyers and their gangster mates, uhh. “ (spelling corrected)

What we have here is a non-sequitor – a statement supposedly connected to the previous statement, but in fact having no connection with it at all:

“That also proves” - what is “that” in this Fong? - Is it “the critique” or the “expeditionary attitude of transient workers” (which has nothing to do with Government) Your words are raves making no sense

Then we have Fong’s usual insulting and vilifying through categorization – back to “the self-serving lawyers and their gangster mates”

The post is rubbish through and through – just a meaningless and absurd rave.

But there is one item in Fong’s post – ripped off from “The Australian” newspaper, that is worthy of attention and that is:

“In a wide-ranging critique that applies to 85 per cent of the continent's landmass, 28 prominent Australians have warned the nation's vast income-generating resource zones could end up being "contested", as crumbling infrastructure and declining populations turn remote Australia into a largely unsettled wilderness....”

Yes the Rudd Government’s recently expressed defence concerns are valid. But then Fong just told us in another post that armies are not used or needed for the defence of democracy – so having recognized the danger one might ask which side is he or she on.

What we currently have in the north and west and in other remote areas, is a pattern of mineral extraction under which minerals are extracted and instead of being processed in Australia are largely exported as ore.

Thus we export the ore to countries who extract the end product, often using polluting processes to provide the energy. At the same time we export unprocessed uranium ore, both to these same countries and to other countries for local processing as nuclear fuel

What many of the remote areas of Australia need are enclaves of properly planned and administrated industrialization. We have the fuel in the form of uranium to provide vast levels of baseload power. We have brilliant so-called renewable energy possibilities to provide additional power, and we have the technical knowledge of how to refine the extracted ores. In addition we have underdeveloped areas living in a state of hopelessness because there is simply no work available no golden opportunities to encourage hope and effort.

In modern times we have often yet to deal with social structures that evolved to support miniscule populations – natural attrition keeping numbers in the past to a very low level. Modern medicine etc have made larger communities possible but not necessarily viable. The solution to these problems lies in the use of the same advanced technology that has, through larger populations, created the problems, and placed impossible strain on an unsupported environment. We need both industrialization and a degree of what science fiction often calls “terraforming” - the creation of a new sustainable environment to put this right, such simple utilities as desalinated sea water for irrigation and for running greenhouses. Remember the fertility of Europe was not entirely natural - it was built up through millenia of agriculture. Many of the fertile soils themselves are in this sense artificial.built up over centuries of technically evolving farming

The key to all these issues is not some spiritual enlightenment – a return to rock worship and animism – it is intellectual enlightenment – education in fact - paralleled by vast increase in available electrical power used in part to refine the ore we currently export and to create the end products themselves and in part to construct a sustainable environment for a larger population than that experienced in past millenia

The jobs have gone or were never there, because we are selling raw materials instead of end product. Reversing the situation requires cheap and abundant clean energy and above all vision of a better and more scientifically advanced nation and world. we need to rid ourselves of the old colonial ways of thinking a realise this here is home!

In Fong’s use of “The Australian” article he leaves out the parts of the article that confirm what I have been saying. Here are a couple of quotes that are missing in Fong’s selection:

“It calls for a national commitment to urgently address:
* Ineffective and erratic service delivery throughout remote Australia.
* The issue of "white flight", in which trained and educated white Australians are abandoning remote parts of the country due to social tensions and lack of basic services.
* The drift of a rapidly expanding indigenous population into remote towns, where they remain outside the mainstream economy but rely increasingly on scant welfare services.
* A crisis in managing remote Australia's fragile ecosystems due to a lack of any integrated national strategy.”

AND

“Mr Chaney said the crisis in remote indigenous communities was a symptom of much wider governance problems affecting all people in remote Australia.
"You wouldn't have needed a Northern Territory intervention if it was working properly," Mr Chaney said.
"You have to ask whether the structures are appropriate. It's not a blame game. We're asking for a national understanding that the bulk of the Australian mainland is not governed effectively. If we agree on that, what do we need to do about it?"
According to the report, "it could be argued that our tenure of remote Australia under the present regime is largely expeditionary (fly-in, fly-out or relatively short-term residence) in nature, which means that the vast resource zones could end up being contested, by virtue of the land being considered 'unsettled'."
Lieutenant General Sanderson, a former army chief, said that did not necessarily mean military invasion, but greater movements of people and foreign capital into remote Australia.
National security made it imperative to maintain infrastructure and people in the northern regions.”

To which I would add – which of course means either taking no action to build a proper infrastructure – which therefore means the need for intervention to correct the side effects of neglect and underdevelopment

Or it means industrialization using the highest level of technology available.

So when are we building the Nuclear energy power station reactor somewhere not too far from Darwin, Fong? Or would you prefer an entirely new city rather like those in the Gulf States.

Or should we all just sulk leaving sick malnourished babies lying face down in the dirt?

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 13th, 2008

You truly are disgusting, phildeerhound, and that IS exactly what the last 100 years of white government "intervention" has amounted to for black Australia - "...leaving sick malnourished babies lying face down in the dirt...", uhh.

Utterly unable to face the truth about that or yourself, you endlessy dismiss the TRUTH as merely "...the latest rave from the usual...". As I said before, the world will move on without your kind. Progress will be in spite of you, not because of you.

Your ever disdainful "Sanders of the River" stiff upper lip British pukkha Raj crap is rank hypocrisy and thoroughly out of place in this age, though:-

"British Commissioner Sanders rules the West African territories in the manner of a strict father, watching over his subjects with a combination of force and indulgence. When Sanders takes a period of leave, his kingdom falls into disarray, until order is restored with the help of the loyal chief Bo-sambo..." http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/438878/ *

While you inappropriately harp on about your pro-uranium/pro-nuclear agenda, lets remember the Englanders as they really are in other peoples' countries, though:-

"Three British tourists who mocked a 76-year-old rickshaw driver because he couldn't pedal fast enough for them - then posted a video of the struggling and panting old man on YouTube - have caused uproar in Singapore..... The trio also ran off without paying the £5 fare he requested and escaped in a taxi yelling expletives..." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490946/Brits-Singapore-mock-aged-rickshaw-driver-spark-anger-YouTube-clip.html and sad sepia version clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVeSrN4owDQ

Were you one of that pair - or do you know them?

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The GetUp team
September 15th, 2008

Fong,

May we once again remind you that abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated and comments that are aggressive towards other bloggers may be removed.

The GetUp team

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 13th, 2008

Your last post Fong was directly abusive and racist

It was also irrelevant to the topic

nuff said

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 14th, 2008

Ahh, let's see..... comments abour "racism" are not permitted in a topic about racism, are they? Who are you to decide?

The English ever up themselves about their whiter-than-white glorious past? Dreams of empire - or just another wanker? Actually, for the most part, modern Brits are quite conscious about racism and pluralism and multi-culturalism. After all, they have been living in such a society effectively longer than white Anglo Australians.

Even 20 or more years ago, London was a far more cosmopolitan society than Sydney or Melbourne. Only the mix was slightly different. But they seem to have exported their more jingoistic idiots to the Land Down Under if not Across the Pond. You must take pride of place as living in a white-supremacist past, phildeerhound.

But it is not possible to abuse people like you. You are the world's abusers of non-European races and of non-British when it comes down to it. As an Englishman, you are most probably still even against the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish, if the truth about you be raelly known.

That brings us back to the essential reasons why white Australia is and has been maintaining such a recidivist attitude and approach to its indigenous population and even to its Pacific Islander neighbors. But then, they used to treat Asians more or less the same way too, uhh.

You've just "categorized" yourself as a white reactionary as well as being an abuser of getUp's blogs with your odious and irrelevant long, boring posts and ad hominem spurious attacks. Well, there are no "Sambos" here to pander to you, mate. Best if you simply move on.....

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The GetUp team
September 15th, 2008

Fong,

May we once again remind you that abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated and comments that are aggressive towards other bloggers may be removed.

Please keep discussion relevant to the blog topic.

The GetUp team

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
Phildeerhound
September 14th, 2008

I do not intend to respond to racist posts from the Fong/Southern Swan WordWarrior/DougChalmers quartet.

I do not think that beyond an initial protest it is worth treating your racism, Fong, with anything other than total contempt. You are the worst enemy of indigenous progress I have ever encountered, attempting to discredit attempts to assist them at every step. You instill and evoke hatred.

I would however like to make it clear to persons just happening on this page that your opinions do not in my experience represent the general attitude of members of GetUp, rather you have consistently behaved as a deliberate disrupter and attempted wrecker of a democratic forum

This is the sort of spam any democratic movement must expect from Right Wing extremists when they operate an open democratic discussion forum

This poster demonstrates just what kind of bitter opposition one faces from persons masquerading as revolutionary thinkers, but who in fact have as their entire apparent aim the disempowerment of progressive lobby groups and of the advocates of progressive change their underlying agenda being the promotion of the interests of Right Wing American Evangelism and the discredited party of George Bush

Anyone would think there was an American election looming.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

Fong of the Inland
September 14th, 2008

One of the things that no-one has looked at so far is whether the entire " Little Children are Sacred Report" was itself a too-clever ploy to get attention for struggling outback indigenous communities. If that is so, then it backfired badly as regards the human rights and political side of things.

It could have been that child sexual abuse in the NT was written up as an issue of significance with the intention of having the previous federal government pressured into funding initiatives for "Aboriginal" communities. On the face of it, that may have seemed straightforward, even covertly tacitly agreed.

If the people involved ever thought so, they were naive in assuming that Howard + co would do anything other than exploit them and the people in the communities to their own advantage. As it was, that was the same government which manufactured the Children Overboard scandal expressly to get re-elected on creating false fears in the white community.

Of course, it backfired for the Liberal government and they remained on the back foot, so to speak, throughout the election campaign last year as everyone wised up to their litany of lies and deceptions and self-serving agendas. Pity now, though, that the Labor government hasn't had the guts to show it all up for what it is and get on with addressing child abuse in the wider community as well.

It still all tends to prove that there is too much at stake for their state Labor mates and too many other kettles of fish, etc etc that they don't want to deal with at this time. The trouble is that it is all unwinding rather fast for them and they are about to lose their precious all-Labor government status before a national streamlining can take place.

As a result, in the end, Labor could lose out totally and become a spent political force as happened with the Australian Democrats. One has to question why Labor now appears to be so gutless on so many issues and why they are still even leaving pensioners virtually starving until next year's federal budget?

The hypocrisy here though is that Rex Wild QC continues to pretend that "...communities throughout Australia have of course welcomed intervention..." which was forced upon them simply because they finally got some things that they had been so desperately short-changed on for decades. It was not up to the Army to provide them.

But there are no "general attitude of members of GetUp..." here anymore, though, Phildeerhound, as you have rather consistently behaved as a deliberate disrupter and attempted wrecker of a democratic forum until you have succeeded in chasing everyone off the blog board. Commenting here with you following me around as though you have your head stuck up my arse hasn't been particularly pleasant, either. As you continually prove, you are a pest with no useful ideas of your own to contribute.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 14th, 2008

Ignoring the abuse and the swearing, one paragraph of the latest Fong post is enough:

"It could have been that child sexual abuse in the NT was written up as an issue of significance with the intention of having the previous federal government pressured into funding initiatives for "Aboriginal" communities. On the face of it, that may have seemed straightforward, even covertly tacitly agreed.

Schizophrenia anyone?

Nuff said

I think moderation is require here.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The GetUp team
September 15th, 2008

Previous comment removed by moderator.

The GetUp team

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 14th, 2008

There are two approaches a person confronted with totally unacceptable behaviour on a blog can take. One is to refute the offending material and ask the person concerned to perhaps moderate their behaviour. The other is to seek intervention on the part of the blogs webmasters

In your case Fong, I chose the former course, in that it left you with the forum in which to express your opinions, to rationally discuss (which you don’t) and to make practical suggestions. Such a course I felt was one in which censorship need play no part. But I fear your latest remarks suggest that this fails to appease you.

Your statements are easily refuted, your bitterness and anger need affect no one other than yourself and your attempts at disruption can easily be made to fall like seeds on stoney ground. Even your selection of George Bushes Republican Party’s choice of candidate for vice president as your heroine need afford little more than amusement to the rest of us. That you think a gun toting Christian Evangelist who considers declaring war on Russia an ideal selection for probable presidency by default is of little consequence, other than in its ability to raise the odd chuckle

But I do feel that in recent posts you have indeed gone far too far in terms of abuse, expletives, racism, negativity, paranoia, accusation, disruption, belittlement and sheer rudeness etc – let alone irrelevance, and as I have said I am not following you there – which is what you seem to want

I have encountered agent provocateurs in other forums – they aren’t uncommon. No doubt an entirely new stratagem to disrupt GetUp is already on the drawing board for implementation when this current disruption of yours ceases

I only hope the forum, through your actions, is a little more aware and experienced - for which I trust they are truly grateful to you.

We really need to be moving on. There was a break in absolute urgency in existing blogs which gave time and space for a little diversion. I think that time is over and perhaps moderation would be appropriate.

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
The GetUp team
September 15th, 2008

Thank you for your comments phildeerhound.

The GetUp team are monitoring the blogs however we do entrust a certain level of responsible blogging with our members and hope that people will respect this.

As always we encourage freedom of speech however those comments that breach our guidelines and use abusive, racist or expletive language will not be tolerated. Comments that are aggressive towards other bloggers may also be removed.

Please remember to keep the discussion flowing but remain relevant to the blog topics.

Thank you and enjoy the discussion.

The GetUp team

Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.
phildeerhound
September 15th, 2008

A note to the Get Up team whilst I have your attention

I think it is important to recognise that freedom of speech can never be an absolute. The oft-repeated example is that no degree of freedom of speech grants a man the right to shout “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre. Similarly no amount of freedom of expression grants a person the right to defame through lying. Free speech is a spectrum, which has to take into account other factors existing in an imperfect society

This is – of course - the core of the debate relating to racial vilification - and the one relevance to the main topic of this thread is, of course , that aborigines are subject to a level of abuse at times which amounts to vilification, and in my opinion, all racial vilification should be outlawed, not just moderated. Vilification - it is worth noting - is sometimes used to prevent the disadvantaged and vulnerable seeking help where it is, in fact, available! The trick is to create a negative image of the helper. Thereby the vilifier seeks to retain or gain the support of the victim. A very cold political trick sometimes used against genuine foreign aid etc.

In a group aimed at being an advocacy group within a democracy I feel it is necessary to recognise the depths that opposition will sink to, if it feels itself under threat. Its main aim will be to disempower the group by bringing it into disrepute. Any chink in the armour will be used, the blogs in our case being the obvious one

I suggest to you that it is best to regard the last few months as being a dry run, giving the opportunity to prepare for what may be heading our way. In my experience it is a mistake to be paranoid but also from experience the questions one needs to ask on particular threads and in relation to the group as a whole are

“Are the matters under discussion and the subject of campaigns likely to arouse opposition”

“If they are - then is it likely that that opposition will appear in disguised as well as open form in discussion blogs”

“Would the opposition to GetUp be doing its job if they did not covertly disrupt”

“Who is the most likely possibility when carefully examined over a period – In particular is their disruption more consistent than their opinions”

“If it isn’t Mr X on the blog – then who else is it likely to be?”

Blogs relating to aboriginal issues such as this one pose no great threat to the status quo. A disrupter may may however seek to prevent Indigenous people becoming part of democratic movements- one being reminded of the American FBI's terror of a united Black and White political front when the Black Panther Party of the seventies sought alliance with the largely white "Peace and freedom Party".. When black and white fulfill Martin Luther Kings dream of "Black and white together" we shall indeed overcome all obstacles.

What is certain however, is that as we get into areas such as Constitutional Reform, States Rights, Monarchy or Republic, Foreign policy, privatisation, Development etc and issue such as winding back the neo Fascism we have recently narrowly escaped from, then the dirty tricks will reappear just as they will in relation to carbon emissions and trading, and to climate change.

Forewarned is forearmed. Two hundred and eighty six thousand is a mighty force. GetUp is a major success

And as Wellington said of his armies:

“I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me.”

Back to the topic without further diversion

Regards

Phil 


Reply to this comment...

Alias:
You can customise the name that will display beside your comment.
Email:
Your email is for our records and will not be displayed.
CAPTCHA:
Enter the text as it appears above to help us prevent spam.

Abusive, racist or expletive language won't be tolerated.
Note: because you are not logged in, your post will be held until reviewed. We aim to review comments once each business day but during busy campaigning periods this is not always possible.

GetUp is Action for Australia

GetUp.org.au is an independent political movement to build a progressive Australia. GetUp! brings together like-minded people who want to bring participation back into our democracy.

Make a donation today!


© 2006-2008 GetUp! All rights reserved.
Authorised by Simon Sheikh, Level 5A, 116 Kippax St, Sydney NSW 2010