Sharing their stories of living with detention debt
Posted on the campaign blog ,
June 29th, 2009
On Thursday, thanks to the contributions of GetUp members, a delegation of refugees went to Canberra to meet with politicians and share their experiences of living under the heavy burden of detention debt - watch the video below to see what happened on the day and hear Masoud Shams and Ibrahim Isrith's stories.
The delegation met with Senators Troeth, Trood and Birmingham and Russel Broadbent MP, from the Liberal Party as well as Senator Hanson Young of the Greens and the Minister for Immigration, Senator Chris Evans.
A busy last day of Senate proceedings meant that the Migration Ammendment Bill to remove detention debt was unfortunately delayed until the next sitting date in August. However when the Bill comes to a vote in August, the Senators we met with have committed to ensuring it passes, so that hundreds of people like Masoud and Ibrahim will be free of detention debt.
Thanks to your efforts, and the tireless campaigning of refugee activists and organisations across Australia, we hope to lay this shameful policy to rest next time Parliament sits and see many lives change as a result.
Support for this campaign has been so overwhelming; we'll continue to use the funds raised to ensure we continue to provide a voice to refugees, whom politicians rarely have the opportunity to meet face-to-face. Further important legislation is due to come through the Parliament and its passage will require a renewed effort from all of us - we look forward to working with you to make it happen.
As Masoud said in a text message to us at the end of last Thursday "Thank you so much for supporting us and giving us a voice after 5 years of waiting. GetUp is gold. We had a very satisfying day. Masoud and Evelyn."
Whether it is signing a petition, engaging with the media, attending an event or helping to get a television ad on the air, you'll only ever asked to take targeted, coordinated and strategic action. Taking action is optional, convenient and proven to work! Join Now.
Thank you for putting a face and giving us a window to what happens behind the scenes at GetUp! Alot of the time, we see the awesome stuff that happens through the web and see the results through the media, but to see how it works is great to see.
Keep it up! great work and best wishes!!! Your hardwork is not forgotten.
jenny
June 29th, 2009
it's so great to see people actually being able to share their stories and see politicians actually listening for once! i am shocked and appalled to hear what happened to people like Masoud and Ibrahim and hope the senate do pass the bill to remove such a shameful piece of our history - rudd and turnbull should've been working to remove this rather than arguing about utes last week!! good luck to Masoud and Ibrahim as they settle in to their new lives in australia and good on GetUp jenny, freemantle
Bobcfc
June 30th, 2009
Thank you GetUP for keeping me on the ball. It is so easy for someone like myself to just go on with my life and not realize what is going on around me. This service keeps me aware and provides an easy way for me to communicate with those who can make a difference.
Jo Kara
June 30th, 2009
I received your email today regarding refugee detention debt and have just watched the video of your visit to Parliament. Firstly, I congratulate Getup for being a booming voice of social justice in Australia and I am happy knowing that I am part of such a moral and humane movement. Secondly, the courage that both Masoud Shams and Ibrahim Isrith showed in the retelling of their stories and the reliving of their trauma is to be applauded. They are paving the way for so many refugees coming behind them. Getup provides the balance in what is sometimes an imbalance of justice and fairness for those that have little or no voice. Please don't ever stop. Jo Kara
Dean
June 30th, 2009
God bless the refugees and may we open our arms to all victims of political indifference.
Davaller
June 30th, 2009
It is good to see that these bad pieces of legislation are getting the ax and that members of the opposition are in support Keep up the good work David
Andrew
June 30th, 2009
Well done and all power to you.
I can only hope and pray that you will turn your powerful attention to the treatment of our own indigenous people.
Along with five other men, I have just returned from spending a week with the Pitjantjatjara in the central Australian desert. I have compiled a report of the trip, please let me know if you would like a copy.
We'd love a copy! I think you are absolutely right that we need to turn more of our attention to the treatment of Indigenous peoples.
I look forward to reading your report!
Cheers
Simon
Simon Sheikh National Director GetUp! Action for Australia
Grace
June 30th, 2009
Thanks Getup for arranging these meetings. It was good to actually see the refugees in MPs ofies apekaing about their difficulties in detention and now this debt of up to $240,000 for cost of one's detention! It is unbelievable how any MP, no matter which party, could allow this to happen or to continue.Imagine being separated from your brother for 4 years in the same detention centre! Good on Russell Broadbent, Judith Troeth and Hanson Young for their generosity of spirit.
Lucilla
June 30th, 2009
GetUp, you rock!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make sure people & politicians hear & understand the impact that detention & these ridiculous debts have on people who have already suffered so much. It astonds me that they were put there in the first place.
Keep up the pressure & the great work.
Ronelle
June 30th, 2009
The actions of the past week or two regarding 'utegate' have shown to me how low and dirty politics (and some of our politicians)are. Instead of doing something positive for people like Massoud and Ibrahim our so called representatives have engaged in a game of fear and smear and other far more important matters have been swept under the carpet. Now they are "resting" for their winter break. For heaven's sake, it's us who need a break from their infernal shenanigans.
Gabi
June 30th, 2009
Well done, GetUp! A real, tangible and very important achievement. Please don't stop there, however. With more boats arriving there is a real danger that the Opposition will grab the opportunity to attack any softening of the Government's approach to asylum seekers by seeking support from the hardliners and bigots in the community, since it seemed to work for Howard and co. The numbers arriving here are of course miniscule in relation to those fleeing to neighbouring countries (Iran, Pakistan etc.) or to Europe. Please keep up the work to counteract the siege mentality that Australia has periodically been prone to.
And thanks again. I will continue to be an enthusiastic supporter of your efforts.
nimrod
June 30th, 2009
It would be interesting to know the names of the people who invented these anti-humanitaraian policies.
Stinalisa
June 30th, 2009
Thank you for the video footage of the day in Canberra. It is good to know that politicians can respond in such a positive way when they witness the impact of past legislation. Keep up the good work. I am thankful to those politicians who made the time to receive the refugee visitors. I think that Russell Broadbent actually crossed the floor in the lower house and spoke about the impact of this legislation as it currently stands. Good luck to Masoud and Ibrahim. I hope they will be able to get on with their lives in Australia very soon.
bronnie
June 30th, 2009
Thanks to Getup for your amazing ability to get people to listen and do something.
Keep up the good work
Angelfish
June 30th, 2009
Why were they in detention? Obviously they were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They broke the law. Why should our country waive their so-called "debts", it doesn't happen for other people who are in detention (law-breakers - think thieves, murderers, etc). What about the poor people who are trying to get into the country legally? Mahmoud and his brother came together - if the country they have left is so bad, why did they leave the rest of their loved ones behind? I would have been concerned about their futures instead. Also, they weren't short of cash if they could afford to cross various countries and make their way to here!
The other guy does not even speak English! It is MY TAXES that are funding these illegal immigrants, I am NOT HAPPY about this. If you are really concerned about people, how about working on the problems for the people already IN this country - you know, the aborigines who are suffering up in the North and West? I don't agree with what you are doing.
Rod
July 14th, 2010
Refugees from countries we are at "war" with can come here I reckon until we stop wrecking their homes work and lifestyles. I guess I'd also include places where our economic policies have ruined their livelihoods. People arriving by boat are pretty high up there on the suffering count so just need to prove their credentials and agree to adopt all that goes with being Australian.
Virgie
July 1st, 2009
These ex-refugees are NOT Illegal immigrants - that is why they have been accepted into Australia. Over 90% of asylum seekers (and do not forget that everyone has the human right to seek asylum in other countries) turn out to be genuine refugees! If you think it was easy to leave their families behind and try to come here, you got to be kidding. They would have liked to bring their families, I am sure, but there is not enough money to take everyone, so often families try and help at least one of their families to find a safe haven here. Instead they end up in prison AND get a debt for it. Travelling across oceans, leaky boats Did you know that actually there are more illegal immigrants who come by "legal" means: such as Americans, English and a few others? Because they overstay their visas. The percentage of people coming on boats is very small, compared to those who come in other ways. Show some humanity. And yes, we should also work for the plight of Aboriginies - are YOU?
Alice
June 30th, 2009
I visited some of the kids in Baxter Detention Centre when I was 14, the place was like a prison. To think that they have to pay for this ill treatment just for the act of seeking safety is very distressing for me. To think that this is expected for people who in my eyes did nothing wrong and not expected from people in actual jails (you know, like people that have killed other people) is horrifying. To top it off for me is the government’s waste of tax payer’s money on expensive detention centres. From which refugees come out more emotionally scared then they went in and less able to integrate into Australian society, as far as I can tell they don’t even teach them English while they are in there.
David
June 30th, 2009
Surely you know that convicted thieves, murderers etc. are not asked to repay the cost of their detention in this country. Why should we do this for asylum seekers who have not broken any law, and have a right under international law to apply for asylum?
Dezza
June 30th, 2009
A disappointing viewpoint. Always remember - the soul of a nation is no longer when the compassion of its people is lost.
The GetUp team
June 30th, 2009
Please note - asylum seekers are not 'illegal immigrants'. They have a legal right to claim asylum in Australia.
Thanks, The GetUp team
treat-yo-mama
June 30th, 2009
Exc work. We dream of a humanitarian Australia that welcomes refugees to walk free among us.
devi
June 30th, 2009
thank u 4 helping those folks, while these folks breached laws (for whatever reason), the penalties r very unreasonable and unfair. its time we shifted from such a damming society which abuses people for making mistakes like this, and its time we started calling for a society which educates rather than scolds.... after all, whose responsibility is it to educate? POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!
deni McKenzie
June 30th, 2009
There is no way that the Australian Government should charge detainees. If their stay were shorter, and in better conditions, maybe, but my husband and I think that it is a cost Australia should wear.
Carole
June 30th, 2009
Great Work Get Up! I was shocked and appauled that refugees actually accumulated such debt whilst in detention - I had no idea!!!! I would like to see this Bill abolished.
Teddybear
June 30th, 2009
Thank you to all at GetUp who are working to eliminate social injustice. I cannot even imagine what it would be like to be in a detention centre for several years or even for one year - these ae people who would be able to make a positive contribution to Australian society if they were just treated fairly.
June 30th, 2009
Your commentAs someone who had a two year relationship with a former refugee at Port Hedland, I trust that this proposed legislation will become law. I'm apalled that the Labor Party instituted this horrendously unfair, inhumane Act to make refugees pay for years of imprisonment. Even serial killers don't have to pay for incarceration. Also, the Coalition continued this inequity and added to the pain refugees have experienced in Detention and out of it. We need to support refugees on temporary visas when they are back in the Australian community by giving them health and financial benefits as any other Australian, instead of maintaining the unfairness of the past.
Nat
June 30th, 2009
Well done to everyone involved! I hope our Senators can convince other parliamentarians (who represent us) of the immorality of detention and then billing ex-detainees it is against every moral & ethical standard, I believe. I wish the delegation of refugees every blessing. Nat
Naomi Cartledge
June 30th, 2009
Angelfish - As pointed out, it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia, regardless of how you get here, by air or by sea. Only 4% of asylum seekers arrive by sea, the rest by air, who land on Australian soil and are thus entitled to legal representation etc.Those who arrive by sea particularly if they land on excised land(like Ashmore Reef etc)are not entitled to the same legal representation.
The reason why only some members of a family make the trip, is that their families pool what little money they have, sometimes they have to sell their farms etc, and then they become homeless - in order to save the young people, usually males, as it's 'safer' for them to travel?Some send minors, that's children under 18 - it's unthinkable, that these children should be locked up at all. Jailing innocent kids? Not in my country thank you!The report called "A Last Resort" about children held in detention clearly stated, that locking up kids should only be 'a last resort'. It should never be condoned again - ever! I recall too many stories of children being permanently damaged. This report clearly stated, that at least 92% of kids from Iran and 98% of kids from Iraq were 'genuine' refugees - it's safe to assume, that their parents are too. Also, keeping people in detention centres is far more costly than allowing those people to live in the community.
People who serve time as a result of committing crimes(unlike asylum seekers who act legally) are not asked to pay for their 'board and lodging' when they're released. Seeking asylum is not a criminal offence, so why should they be presented with bills for often hundreds of thousands of dollars when they're finally given refugee status - permanent protection? It's unfair, and only adds to the trauma and difficulty they've suffered, either in their own country, travelling here, and further medical and psychological damage due to our treatment of them here, which is shameful!
Australia is a signatory to the Declaration on Human Rights, and the Declaration on the Rights of the Child. We re-commit to these international laws and obligations on a regular basis. If we want to boast of being a civilized country with decency and an allegiance to upholding human rights, then we have no business in behaving like the many countries these people have fled from. It's impossible to jog down to the local Immigration Office in Iraq, or Iran or Afghanistan, or many others, like Sri Lanka in recent years, and apply to leave the country - in some countries, it would probably mean certain death.
If you go to Crikey, and put in 'Asylum seekers, the facts in figures' - it has lots of information, exploding the myths and lies - all fair dinkum!
I congratulate the people at GetUp for this action, and wish those asylum seekers who've been affected by this unjust action, only the best for the future! Praise for the Rudd Govt to put a stop to this, and the brave Coalition members who stood up for decency and justice!
June 30th, 2009
It is hard to believe that this government can continue to hold these poor people to ransom in this way..I implore the present politicians to atone for what has happened to these people who trusted that Australia would give them refuge..
Madeleine Bullock
June 30th, 2009
Thank yuou for showing such a nice film. It is heartening to hear about innocent people's hardship. I myself is an immigrant to Australia, and I really had hoped to find a government with a heart, instead of one who puts more weight om brain that compassion.
Gabi
June 30th, 2009
This is absolutely appalling, I had no idea that after keeping asylum seekers in detention they were then hit with a debt for their accomodation. From the stories these refugees told it also seems they were treated like criminals. This is supposed to be compassionate country. Whoever made or supports these laws would do well to remember that, apart from the original inhabitants, every one else came to this country as a migrant, a refugee, or in chains. How could we treat people like this and still claim to be a compassionate society?
Naomi Cartledge
June 30th, 2009
Angelfish - As pointed out, it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia, regardless of how you get here, by air or by sea. Only 4% of asylum seekers arrive by sea, the rest by air, who land on Australian soil and are thus entitled to legal representation etc.Those who arrive by sea particularly if they land on excised land(like Ashmore Reef etc)are not entitled to the same legal representation.
The reason why only some members of a family make the trip, is that their families pool what little money they have, sometimes they have to sell their farms etc, and then they become homeless - in order to save the young people, usually males, as it's 'safer' for them to travel?(I feel so happy for Masoud and his brother, as I wrote to them while they were in Baxter?I think - we lost touch as I think their mental state was very poor at the time. I shed some tears watching him speak and state his case so well, but particularly as he's now married and obviously happy and settled. I know that Evelyn is a lovely woman. I just hope that the Senators do the decent thing, and remove these unjust debts. $200 odd thousand would go to buying a home. I wish them all every happiness!) Some send minors, that's children under 18 - it's unthinkable, that these children should be locked up at all. Jailing innocent kids? Not in my country thank you!The report called "A Last Resort" about children held in detention clearly stated, that locking up kids should only be 'a last resort'. It should never be condoned again - ever! I recall too many stories of children being permanently damaged. This report clearly stated, that at least 92% of kids from Iran and 98% of kids from Iraq were 'genuine' refugees - it's safe to assume, that their parents were too. Also, keeping people in detention centres is far more costly than allowing those people to live in the community.
People who serve time as a result of committing crimes(unlike asylum seekers who act legally) are not asked to pay for their 'board and lodging' when they're released. Seeking asylum is not a criminal offence, so why should they be presented with bills for often hundreds of thousands of dollars when they're finally given refugee status - permanent protection? It's unfair, and only adds to the trauma and difficulty they've suffered, either in their own country, travelling here, and further medical and psychological damage due to our treatment of them here, which is shameful!
Australia is a signatory to the Declaration on Human Rights, and the Declaration on the Rights of the Child. We re-commit to these international laws and obligations on a regular basis. If we want to boast of being a civilized country with decency and an allegiance to upholding human rights, then we have no business in behaving like the many countries these people have fled from. It's impossible to jog down to the local Immigration Office in Iraq, or Iran or Afghanistan, or many others, like Sri Lanka in recent years, and apply to leave the country - in some countries, it would probably mean certain death.
If you go to Crikey, and put in 'Asylum seekers, the facts in figures' - it has lots of information, exploding the myths and lies - all fair dinkum!
I congratulate the people at GetUp for this action, and wish those asylum seekers who've been affected by this unjust action, only the best for the future! Praise for the Rudd Govt to put a stop to this, and the brave Coalition members who stood up for decency and justice!
LusciousLiv
June 30th, 2009
Thankyou Naomi for responding to Angelfish's email. I couldn't even begin to formulate a response to such ignorant comments. (I thought surely it must have been a joke post, put here to incite argument. I'd be sorely disappointed and disgusted to think that there really is someone out there who honestly feels that way and can seriously believe such opinions.)
lesleybra
June 30th, 2009
Great stuff. I was happy to donate to this important cause, and it was great to watch the video and see what my funds went towards. Keep us posted on the outcome.
Des
June 30th, 2009
Well done GetUp! Action like this deserves continued support. To erase prejudice, unfairness, inequality will always require a constant effort. The people of Australia need to continually be reminded of the history of this land, and how and why the early settlers from across the globe came here. People fleeing persecution have been arriving here since those early times. The arrival of asylum seekers today is not much different from those times. We should all be grateful to receive the relatively few that land on our shores. By comparison with other countries, it is a miniscule number.
For Australia, the law that was created in the Keating years to pass on the costs of detention to those with little to nothing left, is nothing short of reprehensible. Politicians with a heart will remove this stain from the legislation.
Dr Teri Merlyn
June 30th, 2009
To incarcerate refugees, often from countries in which the western world (us) has some responsibility for why they have fled home in the first place, have them languish whilst we spend considerable time establishing their bona fides, then actually charge them for the imprisonment, is truly bizarre. Our immigration policy is based on the principle that immigrants bring new energy and make a valuable contribution to our society. Why does the government conceive refugees so differently? Surely people who have left their homes in such dire circumstances need support rather than more deprivation and then a bill for it? Surely they are more likely to be grateful to the country that has been kind and cared for them in their time of need? That so many settle peacefully after running that awful, unjust gauntlet is testament to their great good will, don't you think? Let's just spend a moment in gratitude for the people who go out of their way to provide support to refugees, for they are the ones who assure them that not everyone supports out government's behaviour and that many of us are at least a fairly decent people.
pegasus
June 30th, 2009
After watching the video I'm so glad I had donated to your appeal in order to abolish this bad and inhumane legislation. I hope Getup also fights for animal justice and one issue I can think of immediately is to ban live animal exports. Didn't Gandhi say that the greatness of a nation is measured by how it treats its animals?
Sheena
June 30th, 2009
Thanks to everyone who made this happen. You are all worth your weight in gold! We must all continue to keep up the pressure for justice for all in this great country we live in and do whatever we can with whatever we have, now and in the future.
oshkie
June 30th, 2009
Very well done. Only trouble was the overdubbing of voices which meant it was hard to listen to two people speaking across each other but you did very well to get this far.
The whole debt question was ridiculous and also so very wrong and ao unAustralian. I am glad to be a member but as a pensioner can not longer offer money EXCEPT WHEN I OFFER IT so please do not pull on my heart strings. There is no more cash in the bank.
Long John
June 30th, 2009
Your comment When is the vote going to be and who do we have to lobby to ensure that this blight on Australia is removed from the record books?
The GetUp team
July 1st, 2009
Hi Long John, The vote has been passed in the lower house but was unfortunately delayed in the Senate for this session. It is now scheduled to come to vote in the Senate when Parliament resumes for the winter session on August 11th. Signs show that it is likely to pass however GetUp will be keeping a close eye on the situation and let members know if there's anything else we need to do to ensure it passes. Thanks, The GetUp team
June 30th, 2009
Keep up all the brilliant work. Getup is such a valuable organisation. Having Getup makes me more confident for the future of our country and our planet. It is just fabulous that Getup helps to give us such a clear voice to help parliamentarians make the best possible decisions for our country. Keep going!!!
June 30th, 2009
Thank God for Getup!! It has been a disgrace.
Dryandra
June 30th, 2009
I abhor the heartlessness of the previous government in imposing this intolerable burden on already suffering and vulnerable refugees and add my voice to those asking all Senators with compassion and tolerance to vote to repeal this dreadful legislation (which few of us knew about until your campaign).
alicia
June 30th, 2009
Think what detention could do to you? Be compassionate Alicia
Christina Rygiert
June 30th, 2009
Thank you for keeping me informed about what's going on in parlament on the issue on refugee legislation. I didn't know anything about refugees having to pay back any money to the government, which I think is absolutely apalling, since those people have not chosen to be incarcerated after fleeing their home country. Who in the world would have thought a government being able to introduce this kind of inhumane legislations, without further debate with the public. I am absolutely disgusted with these laws, and the people who made them. I can't believe it took so long to bring it into people's awareness, of what has been going on in the past 12 years. All I can say, I am soo glad get-up has achieved a change for the better, and hopefully come August the entire legislation will be shredded.
Renate
June 30th, 2009
i am deeply moved by your video, especially as I was a refugee myself in 1938 and classified as an enemy alien (utter rubbish)
I am so grateful that GetUp is giving these gravely mistreated people an opportunity to speak up. I congratulate you with all my heart.
June 30th, 2009
Well done, we are proud of Get Up. My parents were post WW2 refugees and I know from very close and intimate experience how sad, demoralised and tragic is the human experience of people losing their country. But life goes on and we welcome new refugees with open, loving arms to Australia. And yes, the ridiculous debt of detention should be scrubbed.
Adrian
June 30th, 2009
My thanks everyone on the GetUp team for your work on this. I don't donate to all your campaigns but I am so glad I gave to this one. Thanks also to the refugees & particularly to Masoud for speaking so eloquently of his experience.
hope
June 30th, 2009
that disadvantaged displaced disenfranchised people would be tortured in dreadful detention.... then ordered to pay for the privilege of having been cruelly incarcerated whilst seeking REFUGE is somehow utterly obscene australia ... shame big shame
whatever happened to.. do unto others as you would have done unto you
VIMANA MAN.
June 30th, 2009
Dear Get Up, It does not matter which Party brought in these shameful and wicked rules, Labour or Liberal. those that did so should be ashamed to have done this wicked thing. For doing such a wicked thing as to force people into detention and then expect them to pay for their stay, is the height of WICKEDNESS. Let those who brought in such an EVIL scheme hang their heads in shame for evermore. If it was Paul Keating, shame on him. If it was that wizzened little sawn off RUNT John Howard, then shame on him.
That arrogant gnome, John Howard once said....." We decide who comes to this country!" You COWARD Howard. You should have lived through the bombing of London year after year,as I had to, it was bloody frightening!
Yours faithfully,
Richard Leschen.
Paul Holland
June 30th, 2009
Just Prior to Christmas 2007, only a few months after th Rudd Government was sworn in by the Governor-General, I sent every new minister a copy of Julien Burnside's, "Watching Brief" personally signed by the author. I hoped that in reading his book, the Labor Government would become more aware of human rights issues and particularly the plight of refugees, particualrly children. I am appalled to learn that children are still being incarcerated on Christmas Island and Rudd's government continues to perpetuate much of the draconian legislation of the discredited Howard government. Little has been done to look into the breaches of human rights by the previous government and no investigation has been initiated into the illegal invasion of Iraq, something that has been already started in the UK.
In many ways the Rudd government is mimmicing some of the the more reprehensible behaviour of its predecessor.
July 1st, 2009
Well done Getup. This was a policy that I strongly detested and one of the reasons that I was very pleased to see a change of Government. I am particularly pleased once more with the 5 Liberal Senators for their bravery and courage in standing for justice one more time. Senator Broardbent's speech was very moving. Thankfully, now, not one more refugee will carry such an unjust burden. Once again, well done to all.
Kav
July 1st, 2009
What sort of people have we put in power that treat refugee's as sub-human and then charge them for the privilege.It smascks of the catholic church and what they did durning the inquisition, when they burned women at the stake and charged them for the wood.The abuse of power,and the pursuit of money,is not what I voted for.
techydude
July 1st, 2009
When I heard that refugees are saddled with ridiculous debts after "release" from detention centres, I almost cried, especially when some are still only granted a 'bridging' visa, where they can't work, can't go to school, & can't claim social security? The only people in our society who don't need at least one of those things are the 'independently wealthy'! How can we (continue to) justify setting these people up for failure in such an extreme manner? It makes no sense. It was the least I could do to help these people bring the human face of this absurdity to the attention of our leaders.
Gil Appleton
July 1st, 2009
I agree with other comments that it is excellent to see personal stories of this kind as well as receiving information from GetUp about policy successes. This is a most iniquitous law. I had some contact with Masoud when he was in Baxter and it is great to see him looking well and settled, and to hear that his brother Saeed is also OK - though the debt must have been a terrible burden for Masoud. It was very moving to see the senators on TV (in an almost empty senate house!) saying that they would vote against the Migration Amendment Bill. Thank you GetUp for your role in this.
ruth
July 1st, 2009
Thank you GetUp for giving us a way to support people and have a voice. You are real heroes.
I would like to personally offer a heart-felt apology to Masoud and his brother and all the other people who have suffered at the hands of the inhuman regime of refugee detention - it is a blight on our humanity, and our politicians should be utterly, deeply ashamed that they have allowed it to continue.
Jean
July 1st, 2009
Your comment Detention "fees" for innocent people was in itself an unspeakable crime. I sincerely hope that this bill goes through with no more problems and send my very best wishes to the people in this video, and others in this situation. Hope the bill goes through with no more problems.
Christine
July 1st, 2009
I cannot beleive that this is an issue-I am appalled at such treatment by our gov. For goodness sake allow these brave and resilient people a real chance in our country. Absolve any such debts and how about doing some retrospective absolving too.
Shanti
July 1st, 2009
Detention debt is indeed a shameful policy imposed on people who have experienced so much hardship in their lives. Where is the compassion, the humanity, and the hand of friendship? The Migration Amendment Bill to remove detention debt MUST be passed to ensure that refugees can start a new life free from this injustice. Congratulations to GetUp!in supporting these people and making their voices heard in Parliament. Keep up the good work, and we will continue to support you in your endeavours.
Virginie
July 1st, 2009
This is close to my heart. Australia MUST not let this go on - it is a black mark in our history: charging people for keeping them in detention when as refugees they have everyright to seek asylum! Do we do the same to our domestic prisoners?
Jane
July 1st, 2009
They are not illegal and they are people. Just like you and I. We have had they good fortune of birth and other opportunities to arrive here 'legally'! What if the indigenous people had turned all the convicts away all those years ago?
Howling Wind
July 2nd, 2009
The permanence of poverty is a common feature of middle class based government, and expresses the sheer bankruptcy and brutality of middle class culture. The "Permanence of Poverty" constitutes a major part of their ideology and demonstrates their emotional sterility.
In Christian countries it is justified by biblical quotes such as John 12:8 "For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always." There are a million such "pious" excuses. We have heard them all.
We are told by hypocrites earning hundreds of thousands, and even millions of dollars per year, that if the lowest and meanest wage levels are raised even to reasonable subsistence level our economy will collapse. And these bastards are allowed to pose as "business leaders"
Is it really any surprise then that a supposedly "Labor" Government, that panders so much to middle class "values" should allow itself to be dragged into this kind of behaviour pattern, adding future impoverishment to past persecution?
I'm sure this particular measure will be abolished - they are hardly likely to collect much money from it - particularly since the level requested stems from the gross incompetence and negligence of slow processing procedures. But the general pattern of the rich repressing and exploiting the poor will continue, persecuting through sheer deliberate negligence, tens of thousands of people to death every single day
Yes indeed under the defective governments imposed by the rich in the sullied name of "democracy" we can be certain that "For the poor always ye have with you" and so too will we have what Orwell called "The boot stamping in the human face forever"
In a class and caste ridden world the real symbol of democracy is social change and redistribution of wealth. Social levelling in fact
Countries like Australia are indeed vastly better and freer societies than others -
But "democratic?"
I think not....
Naargis
July 1st, 2009
Get up Australia! You can do it. Erase the evil of the Howard years and the black tarnish on Australian history. Once again, many congrats to the Getup Team. You are doing a magnificent job!
we are one
July 2nd, 2009
How great that stories such as these make it into the more public domain. kEEP UP THE GREAT WORK. And for people who think it is easy for someone to leave everyone they love and everything they hold dear, think again. There is a Sri Lankan currently in detention who made his way to Australia seeking a peaceful life - he was fleeing abduction and certain death at the front line of a civil war which he wanted no part of, his wife was killed in the awful fighting a little while ago and his only son, aged 10, is living in the horror of a refugee camp - to see the tears in this man's eyes as he shows me a photo of his wife and cute little boy is overwhelming for one who has never had to even contemplate what it must be like to live with civil war. If he could have his family with him, of course he would choose to do so!
Let's hope Australia releases people like this man soon and put an end to the trauma he has suffered by reuniting him with his son and allowing him to create a new life in peace. And let's not forget that other countries, because of their proximity, have no choice but to take in refugees - consider Jordan which has more Palestinians than Jordanians - why should Australia feel so smug about turning people away when we are hardly over run with refugees. Whatever happened to compassion ???
Donna
July 2nd, 2009
Hi Simon and GetUp,
Thank you for organising the Canberra meetings for Masoud and Evelyn and Ibrahim. Masoud and Evelyn, and Masoud's brother are friends of my family, in fact we consider them our brothers. I am beyond words to know that they were able to share their stories with politicians, and I live in the hope of hearing that this unbelievable policy of paying for detention will be abolished. I hope this will then help all those who have been living "under a cloud", to feel free to live their new lives in Australia in the way they wish to. We should treat all people with dignity and respect. Thank you for your huge help in making this dream start to become reality.
July 2nd, 2009
Dear GetUp, What wonderful news! To remove detention debt incurred by refugees to Australia. What great work you do!Trust all goes well with the Ammendment Bill in August. Geraldine James Qld
July 2nd, 2009
Well done GETUP. Continue to help the poor and oppressed in every way. God bless you all. Sorry I don't have any funds to help but my prayers are always answered. Yvonne.
Shafiek Abrahams
July 3rd, 2009
Firstly Thank you to The Get up team and to all those involved for the continuous perseverance and support , the feedback is very positive, especially when one has insight into the progress one can achieve, when we show compassion for humanity. Moving to Improve our actions towards humanity in strength and unity. So Thank you once again. Keep it up.
Howling Wind
July 3rd, 2009
In politics you have already lost when you put on a suit
(with or without a tie)
Trust me on this Simon.
Think about it.
P
July 3rd, 2009
Actually got a reply from the immigration dept - so I wrote back again myself
++
Their letter
On 30/06/2009, at 3:54 PM, case.management@immi.gov.au wrote: Thank you for writing to the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Chris Evans regarding the immigration detention of children on Christmas Island. The Minister has asked me to reply on his behalf.
As you know, the Government’s policy is that children will not be held in immigration detention centres, as was clearly enunciated in the Government’s Key Immigration Detention Values announced in July 2008. While the Migration Act 1958 (the Act) was amended in 2005 to affirm the principle that children should only be detained as a last resort, the principle does not limit the location and nature of any such detention. The Government’s detention values build on the 2005 principle by explicitly banning the detention of children in immigration detention centres established under the Act.
This policy reflects the reality that while prompt placement of children and their families in community detention remains the Department’s priority, there will be occasions when children will be accommodated in low to medium security facilities and alternative places of detention within the immigration detention framework.
In accordance with this policy, all arrivals on Christmas Island are initially triaged at the "Construction Camp" at Phosphate Hill to receive initial checks. However, the priority is that children and, where relevant, their families, are promptly accommodated in community detention. These arrangements allow children and their families to move freely about in the community and receive support from a range of services and non-government organisations, as required.
In the case of unaccompanied minors on Christmas Island, the Department engages with professional foster care service providers to care for unaccompanied minors in the community. Unaccompanied minors are visited regularly by staff of the Red Cross and are also visited by staff from a range of other organisations which include the Commonwealth Ombudsman's Office and the Australian Human Rights Commission. Volunteers from community groups also visit these young people regularly.
The Government considers that this measured approach strikes a balance between operating a migration program with integrity whilst also ensuring that the welfare of children is paramount.
The Minister has asked me to highlight to you the recent introduction of the Migration Amendment (Immigration Detention Reform) Bill 2009, which includes two measures to embed in the Act the Government's detention values relating to children. The Bill strengthens current section 4AA of the Act to provide that if a minor is to be detained as a measure of last resort, the minor must not be detained in a detention centre established under the Act. In addition, section 4AA is extended to specify that if a minor is to be detained, the best interest of the child must be a primary consideration for the purposes of determining where the minor is accommodated.
The Minister intends to issue a Ministerial Direction under section 499 of the Act to guide departmental officers as to the principles that apply if a minor is detained. The broad objective behind the Ministerial Direction will be to ensure that if a minor is detained for a short period while their status is being resolved, their treatment, and the conditions of the detention environment, are humane and have as little adverse impact on the child as possible. The principles will be consistent with Australia’s obligations under the Convention of the Rights of the Child 1989.
It is envisioned that these actions will significantly strengthen legislation, policy and procedures in relation to the management of children in the immigration detention environment.
Thank you for bringing your concerns to the Minister’s attention.
Dermot Casey Assistant Secretary Case Management Branch
MY REPLY
"Just a quick note
Firstly I am extremely pleased at receiving a direct reply and I congratulate those responsible for preparing it. Whilst I may not agree with the solutions I accept that the associated parameters are being given full consideration.
We have a Labor Government, It is my belief that this is the time we should be building entirely new social structures and machinery, and accompanying social attitudes. If I could use a word that the ALP seems to avoid, I think the Government needs to be considerably more "socialist" in its thinking. That is where it is going wrong.
If climate change is a reality, then it, accompanied by the political disaster that a combination of degenerating totalitarian regimes and decrepit middle class capitalist conservatism will bring, is likely to bring migrations on a massive, "Volkserwanderung" scale - certainly not seen since the Second World War - and possibly on the scale of the migrations that heralded the end of the Western Roman Empire, and brought about the collapse of the Byzantine Empire.
The present "migration procedure" is rubbish in terms of dealing with this reality if it eventuates - and surely the latest figures from Malaysia and Indonesia point in that direction.
You simply can't "lock them all up" - we need a better policy. Furthermore we are hardly safe as a nation if we bottle ourselves up as a low population country in a region that is vastly overcrowded. Eventually the pressure will blow.
I suggest to you that immigration is not something we can deal with out of context with general social reform. The bottom line is we may be able to accept more migration, perhaps being more selective in our intake. But we certainly CANNOT sustain the present class system that treats one person differently to another. There has to be a degree of levelling, otherwise a combination of internal and external pressures will blow us apart. Migration is such a pressure when it is dealt with in such a volatile manner.
Surely now is the time to start thinking about mutual expectations between our society and migrants. We would all be better off if immigration were a little more conditional in terms of acceptance of our democratic Australian culture. Swearing allegiance really isn't enough. Poor assimilation equals higher social rejection of numbers entering the country at a time when large population movements are likely.
What I am saying is that problems such as "children in detention" are the tip of the iceberg. The whole of that same iceberg is the failure of Governments to restructure - economically, socially, intellectually, educationally, culturally, scientifically and politically - our Australian society, from its decrepit post colonial model.
In addition we are dominated by an increasingly putrid heap of theological garbage emanating from our decaying but still dominant Christianity, and pressured by other heaps of theological garbage from imported religions - where we desperately need to be becoming more secular in approach and construct.
Once again - I thank you for your reply. I think you can see that I am not unsympathetic to your position. My real contention is that your position is untenable and unsustainable. We need a new social approach to building a truly post-colonial Australia
And you could help by telling the minders above you that what you are being asked to do is crap, and that the people who write to you see that and look towards the construction of a more overall and sustainable social solution for the WHOLE of Australian society.
And this is what we want to hear talked about in Parliament.
Buckminster Fuller called it "Utopia or Oblivion" and that was forty years ago, now it is about social change or social collapse and possibly even invasion. We need to be reconstructing and reforming not just our own society - but the society of our entire region. The educational servicing of students and the compassionate expert assimilation of migrants - including "illegals", could be a part of this restructuring and reform, and certainly part of a working "defence strategy"
The alternative is regional revolution, which as a nation we just might not survive..
Wow
July 4th, 2009
This was really moving: I've been a subscriber for a couple of years and get compassion fatigue sometimes but dipped into this one and had my interest and faith renewed: thanks for a great job you are doing on behalf of ordinary folks in extraordinary circumstances
maryregan
July 4th, 2009
So pleased that this ridiculous situation is coming to an end. So great to see Masoud and Evelyn on your video. I live in a tight financial situation but cannot imagine how it feels to go through the horror of being a refuge coming to Australia, hoping for a possibility of a new life and then spending an unknown time in a detention centre. So pleased that they will no longer have to pay for their time, fiscally. Was very touched with the respectful and loving relationship that Masoud and Evelyn obviously have.
Mary-Anne Chen
July 5th, 2009
I am very pleased that this action has made a difference, so many actions require so much energy and sometimes do not appear to make substantial changes I am hoping in the future Get-Up can help the people of Australia stop environmentally disastrous desalination plants from developing along our country's coastline, costing the people billions of dollars, making millions for private industry/government coffers and preventing sustainable water management and our basic human right to affordable water
Cheers M
n/a
July 5th, 2009
Thank you for being given the opportunity to assist with these wonderful people..I too have been touched by their stories and loved the presentation.
n/a
July 5th, 2009
Thank you for being given the opportunity to assist with these wonderful people..I too have been touched by their stories and loved the presentation.
Naomi
July 6th, 2009
P - Thank you for publishing your correspondence with the Minister for Immigration( his helper, in this case). I agree with you totally re your abhorrence of detention centres, particularly for children.
Asylum seekers, the facts in figures Number of refugees* around the world: 37.4 million?—?UNHCR Current quota for refugees coming into Australia: 12,000 ?—?Myths and Facts about Refugees Number of requests for asylum received by European countries in the past two decades: 6.3 million ?—? Myths and Facts about Refugees Number of requests for asylum received by Australia, New Zealand and Japan in the past two decades: 107,000 ?—? Myths and Facts about Refugees Number of refugee boats intercepted this year coming to Australia: 6 ?—? The Brisbane Times Amount to be spent on detention operations, including $85.8 million for new detention contracts in 2008?—?09: $120 million ?—?Refugee Council Amount spent on detention in 07-08: $142 million Number of people granted refugee status in Australia in 2007-08, out of a total of 13, 014 humanitarian visas granted: 6004 ?—? Australian Human Rights Commission Number of asylum applications registered in 2008 for industrialized countries according to the United Nations: 383,000 ?—? UNHCR Number of asylum seekers who arrived last year: 4750 ?—? Malcolm Farr, The Daily Telegraph Number who arrived by boat: 179?—?Malcolm Farr, The Daily Telegraph Asylum seekers found at sea off Australia so far this year: 221?—?The Daily Tele Percentage of asylum seekers who arrive by air: more than 95%?—?Malcolm Farr, The Daily Telegraph Amount of money spent on the Pacific Solution over five years: More than $1 billion ?—?SMH Cost per person to be processed in Nauru, Manus and Christmas Island: more than $500,000 ?—? SMH The cost of holding asylum seekers on the mainland as a percentage of the running costs of the Pacific Solution, based on Department of Immigration estimates: 3.5 per cent.?—?SMH Percentage increase in the number of asylum applications worldwide between 2007 and 2008: 12% ?—? UNHCR Increase in the number of asylum applications in Australia between 2007 and 2008: 19% ?—? The Australian Increase in the number of asylum applications in Finland between 2007 and 2008: 181%?—?The Australian Number of asylum seekers confirmed dead after yesterday’s boat explosion off Ashmore Reef: 3?—?SMH Number of asylum seekers who drowned on the SIEV X on October 19, 2001: 353?—?SMH Children who perished on the SIEV X: 146?—?The Daily Telegraph Asylum applications submitted by Afghans in 2008: 18,500?—?UNHCR Number of asylum applications submitted by Afghans in 2002: 29,400 ?—? UNHCR Percentage increase in the number of asylum applications worldwide from Afghanistan in 2008: 85% ?—? UNHCR Asylum applications originating in Iraq in 2008: 11% ?—? UNHCR Average number of new asylum claims lodged by Iraqis between 2000 and 2002: 50,000 ?—? UNHCR Number of new asylum claims lodged by Iraqis in 2008: 40,500 ?—? UNHCR Asylum seekers who made it to Australian shores at the height of the Vietnam crisis in the late 70s: 1000 ?—? Daily Telegraph Number of refugees accepted into Australia in the early 1980s: 20,000 ?—? Myths and facts about Refugees Cost of detainment per person, per day on Christmas Island (as of 2007): $1830 ?—?SMH Cost of detainment per person, per day at Sydney’s Villawood detention centre (as of 2007): $238 ?—? SMH Number of people who overstayed their visas as of 30 June 05: 47,800 ?—? Immigration Department Places offered for resettlement of Iraqis in 08-09 who have assisted the Australian military (at a cost to Australia of $42 million over four years)?—?up to 600 ?—?Refugee Council Number of persons in immigration detention at some time during 2006-2007: 5485 ?—? HREOC Total number of persons in immigration detention in Australia as of 12 September 2008: 274 ?—? HREOC Number of these detained people who were unauthorized boat arrivals: 6 ?—? HREOC Number of these detained people who were unauthorized air arrivals: 40 ?—? HREOC Number of refugees in Colombia due to conflict between government and illegal armed groups and drug traffickers) (2007): 1.8-3.5 million ?—? CIA Year when the United Nations High Commission for Refugees became operational: 1951?—?HREOC *A Refugee is a person recognised as a refugee under the 1951 Refugee Convention/ 1967 Protocol or the 1969 OAU Convention. An Asylum-seeker is a person whose application for asylum or refugee status is pending at any stage in the procedure or who is otherwise registered as an asylum-seeker. – Refugee Council of Australia
I hope this helps people in their dealings with others. There are just too many assertions made by politicians and others that are simply not true.
neri
July 7th, 2009
Your comment you give us hope!
Annie
July 8th, 2009
I find it outrageous that these people are being charged to be imprisoned. Why is it deemed necessary to keep these poor people in detention for so long? Makes me wonder where this money goes and for what purpose. It can't remotely justify the unnecessarily long amount of time these people spend imprisoned, and then to charge them so much for this is unfair and inhumane!
Jack O\'neil
July 28th, 2009
Dear Getup Members
Regardless of the importance of this issue, there is no more serious issue facing all Australians at this point in time than that of the slow POISONING of every man, woman and child for PROFIT and POPULATION REDUCTION. For those who may find this difficult to comprehend, with respect, your Brain and Body has possibly been drip-fed this most toxic and poisonous Medication known to mankind, for several years. This deliberate Act has finally come back to Bite Australia's Economy via Export Trade. Please do your research. Also see.
Regardless of the importance of this issue, there is no more serious issue facing all Australians at this point in time than that of the slow POISONING of every man, woman and child for PROFIT and POPULATION REDUCTION. For those who may find this difficult to comprehend, with respect, your Brain and Body has possibly been drip-fed this most toxic and poisonous Medication known to mankind, for several years. This deliberate Act has finally come back to Bite Australia's Economy via Export Trade. Please do your research. Also see.
I don't believe what I'm reading, are you people for real or do you just have hold of something. Our young men are dieing in places like Afghanistan and Afghanis and others are coming into Australia in small boats illegally throwing their passports over the side on the way in and getting tax payers handouts while ours are being blown apart(so called refuges, come on wake up!!) Mr Crudd hasn’t told you yet what blew up on that last boat people, no! because he would get the same as Howard got with ‘baby over board”, they blew the boat up with LPG cooking gas, turned on the gas valves in the kitchen so the navy would have to pick them up, they burning half the people. Please…. you little naives get a @# life before we all go down. I do hope that all these little brain washed Moslem terrorist out there realise that every time they blow someone up, an earth quake or tsunami takes some of their kind out around the world, god is not happy. When will we come of age and finally see religion for what it is, however it does have the effect of keeping the population down which is a good thing. I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time writing this stuff obviously you lot would have to be a bunch of miss guided, miss informed losers.
HW
October 4th, 2009
I fear it is you, "Naive" that is getting overwhelmed by realities - You are angry and perhaps justifiably so - but you seem to be missing the underlying cause of your anger.
Surely it isn't the paltry few (in terms of numbers) people who arrive in Australian waters in badly kitted-out boats, totally unsuitable for the lengthy voyages to our shores?
The general thrust of this GetUp thread is that these people have been rather unfairly treated in that after processing taking months or even years (for no really discernable reason with respect to time span) a policy of charging them the cost of lengthy detention has been imposed in the past by governments even after they have been granted the right to stay
Your anger seems generally directed against refugees per se which seems to presume that you cannot imagine yourself ever being in such a position and that there is therefore no need for you to feel compassionate towards someone who does.
How many people are we ultimately talking about over the next forty years? - maybe we should look at some recent information coming out of the UN.
"With no policy measures taken so far to protect "climate change migrants," the world has a lot of homework to do, and quickly," says the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)
The UN would appear to accept a figure of between 150 million and 250 million people, worldwide, displaced by a level of climate change that regionally may be so severe as to render much, or all, of their homelands unliveable, through such causes as inundation by flood (for example some Pacific Islands) and desertification - for example in Africa, in Arab lands, China, and even - we should not discount the possibility - Australia
We are talking of a "Volkswanderung" here - mass migration of desperate masses of people on a scale vastly higher than any "invasion".
The world is going to need to get its systems of processing refugees in order if we are to maintain social stability worldwide, or even in individual territories. Just raging on about the "desireabilty" of death on so massive a scale is not going to get us anywhere.
Abolishing detention fees corrects an obvious injustice. I doubt if much money was ever collected anyway. The existence of GetUp's campaign indicates that tens of thousands of people already have a grass roots compassionate grip on social aspects of the problems of refugees
We are going to need a great deal of compassion over the coming decades if we are not to be engulfed by the side effects of climate change. Your ranting solves nothing except perhaps to let off a bit of steam. No doubt it made you feel better - temporarily
But those same problems remain - after your rant as before - nothing has changed.
Your security will, in the future, depend on those people prepared to examine, address, and try to solve refugee problems, whilst you sit like King Canute, impotently and self righteously commanding the tide to recede
So who really is the misguided loser of your post? - is it the one who calmly seeks to rectify an injustice as part of a call for a feasible and compassionate refugee policy
Or is it the one who has no answer except anger and resentment, and who abrogates his power to do good in favour of expressing impotent rage that he "justifies" in terms of racism.
naive
October 7th, 2009
Subject: Ross Greenwood/Alan Jones Comments - This is SCARY Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:13:57 +0800
Ross Greenwood Quote:
Subject: From - Ross Greenwood of Money News
Right now the Federal Government is at pains to tell everyone - including us the mug-punters to the International Monetary Fund that it will not exceed its own, self-imposed, borrowing limits. How much? $200 billion. And here's a worry. If you work in a bank's money market operation; or if you are a politician; the millions turn into billions and it rolls off the tip of the tongue a bit too easily.
But every dollar that is borrowed, some time, has to be repaid. By you, by me and by the rest of the country.
Just after 5 o'clock tonight I did a bit of maths for Jason Morrison. But it's so staggering its worth repeating now. First though ... here's what Chairman Rudd has been saying about - what he calls - these temporary borrowings. Remember those words ... temporary deficit . but the total Government debt could end up around $200 billion.
So here's a very basic calculation ... I used a home loan calculator to work it out ... it's that simple.
$200 billion is $200,000 million. The current 10 year Government bond rate is 4.67 per cent. I worked the loan out over a period of 20 years.
Now here's where it gets scary ... really scary.
The repayments on $200 billion come to more than one and a quarter billion dollars - every month - for 20 years. It works out we - as taxpayers - will be repaying $15.4 billion in interest and principal every year ... $733 for every man woman and child - every year.
The total interest bill over the 20 years is - get this - $108 billion.
And remember, this is a Government that just 18 months ago had NO debt . NO debt. In fact it had enough money to create the Future Fund to pay the future liabilities of public servants' superannuation ... and it had enough to stick $20 billion into the Building Australia Fund last year ....
Money News
Ross Greenwood Presenter
Alan Jones Comment - this is frightening:
......... a note that was sent to me which explains to me that the six leading members of the Government from Mr. Rudd down, the top six have a collective work experience of 181 years, but only 13 in the private sector. If you take out of those 13 years the number that were spent as trade union lawyers, that total 11, of the 181 years only two years were spent in the private sector.
So the people who will rack up a net Federal debt of a minimum of $188 billion, the highest in our history, have virtually no experience in business.
So out of 181 years:
- no years spent running their own business - no years spent starting their own business - no years spent as a director of a family business or a company - no years as a director of a public company - no years in a senior position in a public company - no years in a senior position in a private company - no years working in corporate finance - no years in corporate or business restructuring - no years working in or with a bank - no years of experience in the capital markets - no years in a stock-broking firm - no years in negotiating debt facilities with banks - no years running a small business - no years at the World Bank or IMF or OECD - no years in Treasury or Finance.
But these people have plunged Australia into unprecedented debt, and now threaten to torpedo employee share schemes which they plainly don't understand.
Well, in a way you can't blame them. It's clear that the electorate did not do their homework, because the Government is there by right.
They were given a thumping majority to lead the country. It's just that no one seemed to ask, most of all the press gallery in Canberra , in what direction.
My point is for gods sake get your lives together and look at your kids life and this countries future. you voted in Crudd, you people got the government you deserve, send them back as trained fighters for their own country, make their country better then tring to change ours
Ang
November 13th, 2009
Your right - Alan Jones IS SCARY! But then most realise he's only a shock jock with his own agenda!
I don't mine paying extra taxes that are directed at saving jobs (and creating new jobs). Would you prefer to see thousands of families lose their homes & living in tents on the banks of the river as was the case during the great depression? Think youself lucky we have a government that acted early for the costs would have been far greater!
But none of this is the fault of refugees! So, what's your point?
nob job
November 14th, 2009
Your right - Alan Jones IS SCARY! especially if one is releiving oneself in a public toilet in London
Keith
October 8th, 2009
G'day naive,
Thank you for pointing out the many flaws in the current bunch of imbeciles that are trying (and will most likely succeed)to bankrupt Australia. It amazed me when these bozos were elected, and still amazes me how idiots are supporting them. Then again, we shouldn't be suprised, Labor has allways put the country into massive debt every time they've been in power. Then you have organisations like Get up that want taxpayers to pay people to stay home and breed, with claims it will stimulate the economy, free money for all, Hooray! It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. The people i rearly feel sorry for are the next generation, who will still be paying off the massive debt that Rudd and that lame red headed sidekick are racking up as we speak. No doubt Get Up and the other left wing socialists on this site will disagree, and will be eagerly waiting for Rudd to borrow even more money, to fund the "equal rights for gay whales" campaign.
HW
October 8th, 2009
NOTE TO MODERATOR/WEBMASTER - NO NEED TO POST
Please could you set embedded videos so they do not download every time the webpage is accessed? After first viewing this automatic download becomes a nuisance
It would be better they did not download at all than download every time. They actually don't add much to the discussion of an issue and might be better on a separate news page anyway
Jack O\'Neil
October 30th, 2009
Is Australia to be Sold-Out to the Communist NWO by Rudd? See the Film!
UK politician, columnist and policy adviser to Mrs Thatcher, Lord Monckton Nobel Prize Winner, says the Copenhagen Treaty will implement ‘World Government’ and take away the National Sovereignty of every Nation that signs up and there is no provision for voting, ballots or democracy anywhere in the treaty. Here’s part of Lord Monckton’s recent speech in the US: http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4197&linkbox=true&position=1
However, the idea that PM Kevin Rudd will actually sign up Australia to “world government’ without actually announcing it, to me is bizarre and deceitful – in fact you could call it treason and fraud if such a profound change was done without the consent of the people. Obviously a world government would require a taxation base. So MPs, what else will it require? What laws will it impose? What happens to our existing laws?
Australia will lose her Sovereignty and Constitution becoming enslaved to the Criminal Psychopathic Globalists.
Lord Monckton says international technical panels will have the right to directly intervene in individual countries over the head of governments we elect. How does this work?
Again, are there any MPs out there who know something about this? Perhaps Kevin Rudd’s office might like to inform us?
VOTE NO TO AUSTRALIA SIGNING ANY TREATY IN COPENHAGEN See Lord Monckton’s Film
mike
November 12th, 2009
I must say I have had enough of this poor woebegotten refugee thing. Lets face it millions of dollars are poured into overseas coffers to "help" for what result? nought!
It's not about racism, it's not about saving the world. It is about being a realist and admitting multiculterism doesn't work (ask any 3rd world nation) and lord knows we are struggling ourselves with the lack of infrastructure (aka lack of water)...send 'em home stop them coming until we fix our own problems!
Keith
November 13th, 2009
G'day Mike
If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor. If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely. If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot. If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed. If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard of again. If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed. If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into a political prison to rot. If you cross the Australian border illegally you get a drivers licence, pension card, welfare, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house, free education and free health care, all payed for by the tax paying chumps.
jeffrey wood
November 12th, 2009
The Comments by John Howard, ex head of State, certainly highlights the difficulties faced, however the hubris seems to know no limit. Most sapient beings would be less inclined to draw attention to themselves, given his track record on Human rights abuses and the knowledge that the impunity he once enjoyed ceases to now apply.
Pat
April 14th, 2010
I support a total ban on immigration! I and others I have spoken to, have had enough of illegals coming to Australia and using us as a welfare state! Every Australian reading this will realize that they are to pay up to 28% more for their electricity bills this winter and their are about 100,000 homeless. but NO lets take care of the refugees first. Charity begins at home and it about time that you bleeding heart liberals out there realized that Australians are suffering too. Listen here Getup! Get off your high moral horse and support the real people of Australia in there plight, because more immigrant ion can't be supported by our present day infrastructure and is being reflexed in our every day utility bills, affordable housing, Public transport and crippling health industry.
Richard
April 14th, 2010
Bob is right people seeking asylum are not "illegals". That was part of the clever word spinning of the Howard Govt to denigrate asylum seekers and to play on the fears and prejudices of the community.
We are not confronted by large numbers of boat people because it is dangerous and difficult to get here. We are not even doing our fair share (6,500 asylum applications in 2009). Greece with a much smaller land area and population gets about 3 times our number of applications, Sweden gets about 4 times as many and again is a lot smaller than Australia. Worldwide in 2009 there were about 370,000 asylum applications but over 40,000,000 displaced people, many living in dire circumstances and over 20,000,000 refugees. Their suffering is enormous.
We should care for own people but charity and compassion shouldnt stop at home.
bob
April 14th, 2010
Pat, if you live in Australia you are an immigrant, or descended from immigrants. That's for starters. People seeking asylum here are not "illegals" they have a right to do that under the Declaration of Human Rights. Get used to that. That is a fact! What really gets to me is your assumption that we in Australia and any suffering or hardship that we might be experiencing here is somehow so much worthier than anything going on outside our borders. John Howard sowed these seeds of Hate over the Tampa. Here were poor unfortunate people, families, kids, mothers and fathers in fear of their lives and somehow he, Howard convinced the majority of Australians that WE were the ones at risk, us sitting here in Australia in our relative wealth and security. To me, that's sick and thank god that I have since returning to Aust soon after the Tampa found many people here who do not fit that mold, ( including such organisations as Getup.) My advice to you is not just to do a bit of reading and see the circumstances that these people are running from, but, ( and I know this might be hard,) to use your immagination for just a second and put yourself in their shoes. If any of the politicians making these rules and laws could just do that we might have a more humane and just country in which to live.
bob
April 15th, 2010
Pat says, " charity begins at home," and that all immigration should be stopped. I am seeing and hearing so much of this on talkback radio and in the tabloids, and I find it pretty scary. So Pat, what exactly is your idea of " home" ? Certainly not the planet by the looks of it. Is it Australia then" ? So you want to draw a ring around Australia, isolate us from the rest of the world and we disregard all suffering outside our borders? We are exclusive and the rest of the world and the people in it and all the misery and suffering out there do not matter? Not our concern? And maybe after drawing that circle around Aust. you can reduce it a bit. Draw a circle around your state, or around your city, or further still, around your friends and family. Or just around YOU even? Maybe that's the way to go? Not a bad idea really, then we'll never need to think about concentration camps and genocide and the idea that people in other countries are living in oppression. Not relevant. And of course it would never happen in Australia. So we're OK aren't we.
mike
April 15th, 2010
Are you insane? Stop immagration this country cannot support any more people (read not enough water) forget boat people send them back home 100% no if's no but's! Australians FIRST!
bob
April 16th, 2010
Well maybe we're all a bit insane Mike, we sit on the lounge eating our dinner at night watching the news; people being blown to pieces on the streets of Kabul and Baghdad and growing a big thick protective skin around us. Because it's not us is it. It's someone over there somewhere who's not priviledged like us to live in Australia. It could never happen here could it, to our family or mates. I mean, what does it take for you to want to help someone? Do they have to be, say australian? or a friend of yours? or family? So no one else qualifies? God help us if everyone thought like you, ( and I know many do.) Do you travel? I hope that you never find yourself in trouble in any other part of the world and people treating you as you are treating them. And if you want to stop immigration, does that also mean that Australians should not be allowed to emigrate too? To live in another country. But I guess that's different isn't it.
Angela Vecchio
June 28th, 2010
Nice campaigning. Take note- IT'S ELECTION TIME! Each party are pandering towards the marginal seats and opinion polls to win power. Gillard included. They want to know what people in marginal seats think about refugees. All other pleas will fall on deaf ears. They have their careers and bigger interests to consider. Maybe if their safe labor seats were in danger, then they would take notice. I hope for a different outcome. FOR A WORLD WITHOUT BORDERS.
Drake\'s Drum
June 29th, 2010
It isn't the Government you need to convince, Angela. It is the Australian people.
All democratic Governments have to take into account the feelings of the electorate. That is part of what they are elected to do
What matters is HOW they respond. That is the area in which whatever the overriding policy, any government displays its humanity.
Isolated detention centres which are more like prisons, and unreasonably long processing delays, are unacceptable. So is lack of proper legal process and representation for asylum seekers.
But I do not think that the interests of asylum seekers would be better served if an idealistic position were adopted that brought down the present government.
Adoption of uncompromising idealistic positions in a number of matters, in which I would include nuclear power and uranium mining, has been responsible for placing the Green Party in a permanent losing position. In this one can only presume that their leaders see their role as one of debate rather than of actual government - which is fine for a minority party
What I suggest is that you take your arguments about immigration and asylum seekers per se to the Australian people in whom the real problems lie. To do this you would have to take on the backwardness and general nastiness of the Australian commercial media from our crappy newspapers to our unspeakable radio talk show hosts
Do that and pretty soon you will know how our parliamentary leaders feel. But they are not in a position to say the words we can - that the problems of human relationships, of which treatment of asylum seekers are a part, is a symptom of the rottenness and filth of the Australian media - which plays with the electorates feelings and emotions in order to manipulate Government in the interests of the overprivileged of Australia's upper classes
Once again - where the Government must do better is the MANNER in which immigration policies are administered at individual asylum seeker level
Malcolm Fraser once did this in a very sensible manner. He cleaned house by calling an amnesty - the "Regularisation of Status Programme"
How about aiming for a bipartisan supported Amnesty? - followed by a totally revised detention system
Omac
June 29th, 2009
This is amazing work GetUp - inspirational!