Mental ill health is the leading killer of Australians under 45 and the leading cause of disability for all Australians.Yet there are huge gaps in our servicesand millions of Australians still suffer each year.
GetUp members like you have risen to this challenge. Together we've brought mental health into the centre of the health debate, shining a light on what is all too often a source of silent suffering for the mentally ill and those who love them. Together we've raised more than $85,000 to put on the air an urgent message from Australian of the year Prof. Patrick McGorry, launched the biggest Twitter petition in Australian history and sent more than 12,000 faxes to the Premiers on the eve of COAG.
What the Government announced yesterday, as part of the COAG:
- $13 million for more mental health nurses to provide services in the community and support clinical care for people with severe mental illness;
- $25 million over four years for the Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centre (EPPIC) model– a holistic service aimed at addressing the clinical and social support needs of people aged 15-24 with emerging psychotic disorders currently operating only in Victoria.
- $78 million over four years for 30 new youth-friendly mental health centres, extra funding for the existing 30 headspace sites, and improvements to telephone and web based services for young people.
So what's next? As Prof. McGorry siad today, "we've gone from a toe in the water to a foot - but we still need to jump in." Here's some of what we still need to achieve:
- End the inequality: 90% of people with physical health problems access quality care, but only 35% of people with mental ill-health access quality care;
- Resource new programs properly: The Government yesterday announced just $25 million for the Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centre (EPPIC), but Prof. Patrick McGorry, who heads the organisation that devised the program (Orygen Youth Mental Health), says this falls far short of the funds required to run the program properly.
-More funding: GetUp members, and Australian of the Year, Prof. McGorry, have been calling for $800 million in funding for the Headspace and EPPIC programs for youth mental health over the next four years. Yesterday's announcement commits to only $103 million over four years for these programs.
As we keep going on this campaign to ensure we fight for real mental healthcare improvements, we want to hear your thoughtson our next steps. Join the discussion below; let's make sure we get the mental health reform Australians need.
PS - embarrassingly, we mis-spelled Professor Ian Hickie's surname in the email to some GetUp members; a cautionary tale about spell-checking software. Sorry Professor!
Whether it is signing a petition, engaging with the media, attending an event or helping to get a television ad on the air, you'll only ever asked to take targeted, coordinated and strategic action. Taking action is optional, convenient and proven to work! Join Now.
One place in prison in South Australia costs $82000 per year. Prison is no place for those with mental health problems. The government should fund early treatment for youth mental health prgrams properly and stop building more lock-ups and dentention centres which cause mental health problems.
Tilly
April 21st, 2010
I couldn't agree more with this comment. We are part of a network trying to build awareness on this issue. see www.cjn.org.au
Rob Perkovic
April 24th, 2010
Yeah and while you are at it I would recommend going over to see the Health Rangers site at www.naturalnews.com as well as www.cchr.org
It is a serious issue and the Australian public deserve the full breadth of the problem and how to best remedy it.
Psychotic drugs are just not the answer.
Cornelisg
August 21st, 2010
Perhaps not, but they are part of the answer, and to deny that is just foolishness
charles
August 21st, 2010
Stephen Fry said finding the right combination of drugs was an adventure.
Thats been my impression from people who suffer mental health issues. While some of the purely psychological sufferers can be treated with counseling alone, I think drugs are a necessity in many cases for either short-term treatment in psychological cases, or long-term for those with physiological causes. There are many different drugs and combinations for treating the same issues and its a matter of perseverance and determination to keep working with psychiatrists in partnership with psychologists and other health professionals, to find the right combination as Stephen Fry did.
Kevin Ferry
April 21st, 2010
kevinferry
http://bit.ly/coLgNy We rallied for mental health reforms in Aus from the Gov- We get -commUNITY
It\'s just not cricket!
April 21st, 2010
Interesting to compare the figures with other media releases from the Commonwealth yesterday... $13 million to support mental health nurses - the backbone of the mental health system in Australia, and $17.5 million to Cricket Australia, to bolster "Australia’s place as the world’s leading cricketing nation" ...
Mental health nurses can provide affordable, accessible mental health care to people across the service spectrum (from primary prevention, to early intervention, treatment and continuing care). Why is their scope of practice being limited to providing care for people with chronic mental illness when they could also be providing a service to all members of the community at risk of developing mental health problems, those with emerging problems or those with less chronic mental health problems?
Funding for mental health...it's just not cricket! (literally)
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
I agree, and if anyone belongs to Cricket Australia, they should raise the issue of their becoming involved in increasing awareness around mental health - like they do with supporting the McGrath Foundation, wearing pink or ribbons or whatever.
More sporting bodies, many who have lost good players to mental illness and suicide etc., should promote mental health awareness.
JAXS
April 21st, 2010
Seeing that Mental Illness become a number one killer for ages of under 45 years of age, would like to asked the Government of the day to seriously take into consideration the increase number of mental health illness and need to pour in money into Mental Health services so that work will be done well.
I shall be very happy to see this present Government and its good to see that a lot of money will be put into mental health services in the country
Not just youth
April 21st, 2010
I understand the politics around distinguishing mental health resources from resources for the aged but let's not attach the youth label to all these initiatives. Prevention is great but it won't help people who have been living with mental illness for all their adult lives without the ustained effective treatment that would assist them to achieve what should be every citizen's right - education, meaningful employment, fulfilling relationships and a sense of self worth. These people are growing older in a life of struggle and those that love them try not to despair.
Agree!
April 21st, 2010
I agree.... I believe it is essential that we better support young people who are at risk or have developed a mental illness, i.e. early intervention. It is fantastic that we and Pat (go Pat! fantastic job) have achieved what we have thus far - as above. However, the adult mental health system (and geriatric) is in need of a drastic over haul for many reasons (beyond providing funding for more psychiatric nurses). Please do not forget adults and the elderly in this mental health reform (and their families).
Also, expanding the current CAMHS age range to mid 20's or providing more services like ORYGEN in public mental health system is needed (not only for young people with psychosis but other mental health issues) so that adolescents do not have to enter the adult system as soon as they turn 18, which can have a significant impact on them for a number of reasons.
Further, I am a clinical psychologist and in most public mental health services we are only hired as case managers. While case management is very important, I believe we need to be providing more psychological services in the public mental health system for all ages - holistic care! Oh and more support for families across the board - family therapy, practical support etc.
Claire - Matching Pegs
April 21st, 2010
I agree wholeheartedly. My twin brother is 35. His diagnosis (with schizophrenia) was 15 years ago, and we have seen an already stretched system crumble in that time.
The Mental Health System is barely treating him - he has been acutely ill for 10 months, but he keeps being discharged before he is well enough to cope - because of pressure on the failing system. He is trapped in a merry-go-round of discharge and re-admittance. During these 10 months he has been a missing person 4 times. He would be counted in the 35% of people that receive treatment.
It would take too long to describe in detail why, but my family is certain that his current length of ill health is ALL due to a system in crisis. My brother CAN be well. He responds well to the right drugs, if the hospital keeps him for long enough to get them to an appropriate level. Prior to the last 10 months, he was working and living independently for more than three years.
The system in it's current state should be improved, not just for youth, but for all. There are many older people who deserve better than they are getting, and families who are losing hope and at the end of their thether.
Thank you Get up for this wonderful way to be a part of extremely important change!
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
I so feel for you, my brother is on the same merry-go-round, and between bouts of being okay and the merry-go-round he subjects all the family members to unrelenting abuse and heartache, not to mention terrifying us - we live according to his schedule; it is unbearable at times and we fear for my parents lives on a regular basis. Rehabilitation in the community is not an option for many who suffer from schizophrenia and they are really good at fooling authorities and blinding people in the system to their true state. Power to change, and a united voice.
April 21st, 2010
I have worked in a community food coop for the last 13yrs and have learned so much about the importance of a healthy diet, mostly from students of naturopathy and other natural health studies. Look after health before ill-health finds us. We need more time, effort and money put into the front end of the health system, so we don't have to continue funding the ill health of today's system.
John
April 21st, 2010
Mental health services are good all over Australia. They are just too thin on the ground. Our good resources are stretched to breaking point. It's only the dedication and professionalism of the staff that keeps the service going. What governments have to realise is a dollar spent in prevention saves at least 2 dollars in treatment.
Too Hard for the system
April 29th, 2010
What seems to be overlooked is that if appropriate care is provided when it's provided those with mental illness will contribute to the governments money - they are tax payers too.
So for each person who is lost - either unable to work or through suicide the government has lost all that income.
There are more than one way to get funding and they need to remember that.
carollillith
April 21st, 2010
Sadly people in rural and remote areas miss out here too.
Our small country hospital is two hours' drive (no public transport) from the nearest mental health service. In the past year we have been the first contact for several young people with mental health problems.
We can offer compassionate but busy ward staff, a few minutes of a doctor's time and access to teleconference or phone contact with skilled professionals. Even for so little, the wait is often hours and it can be days before a face-to-face interview and ongoing mental health support.
Some never make it that far, another young man hung himself this month.
Countrytoo
April 23rd, 2010
carollillith, I wholeheartedly agree, having lived with faily members and good friends will mental health issues and being in a small country town, it sometimes feels as if all the pressure is on the family to help and give support. This is very difficult at times and it only seems when they get to the "final straw" that someone sometimes kicks in to help. In a small town it also seems that people like to turn a blind eye which doesn't help the individual struggling to feel free to ask for help. Country services need to be looked at in a serious light!
Robert Hamilton-Bruce
April 21st, 2010
It is a real mystery why mental health is such a battle to have respected as being one of the most important aspects of our lives. We all fear death, we none of us wish to die. but it appears that we would all rather sit in some squalid, under-resourced dump with unhelpful and uncaring staff in some corner, stinking of our own excrement and dying gradually then try to ensure that we can have graceful and respectful exits from life by adopting a really good mental health plan. How short sighted and selfish can we get?
Tom Bond
April 21st, 2010
As the sole carer for a close relative of a mental health patient for almost 20 years I have seen mental health service deteriorate from a practical “hands on” service to a remote, bloated bureaucracy. I fear that any extra funding will just be absorbed by administrators, spin doctors, co ordinators, consultants, clerks, administration buildings, reports and brochures with very little getting to the real health professionals and their patients.
Roger
April 21st, 2010
Getting governments to say they will spend and pinning them down to spending AND truly spending on Mental Health are 2 different things.I know for example that at St GEORGE hospital since the'80s funds were being diverted surreptitiously from Mental Health into more 'sexy'areas. The Reforms were supposed to simplify and add transparency to Health delivery.Rudd has avoided questions on how his reforms will achieve this.If Get Up is for acountability and transparency these are issues we should pin Rudd down to. What are we doing about this? Why not do 2 diagrams showing the existing system and Rudd's proposal....as far as we can gather from his statements. It will then be up to Rudd to put out his own diagram which may well turn out to be another spaghetti drawing.
Stillclearmind
April 21st, 2010
I have worked in the social justice area for over 30 years, I see wonerful brochures about D&A and mental health working together, conferences, meetings and yet nothing, nothing happens. If the patient is not homicidal or suicidal there is little help. No psychoatrists to see people who self medicate their mental health symptoms, I imagine that D&A funding has probably missed out again. Do people not realise you can rarely split the two conditions.
TooHard for the system
April 29th, 2010
I'm sorry to say that my experience with my son, who suicided 3 weeks ago is that even if they are suicidal there still isn't any help. D&A are still seen as 'behavioural' problems and even with the govt policies they are still turned away.
It is a disgrace. And the 'professionals' wouldn't listen to me...
Important Note: none of them were at his funeral - and they didn't find him hanging in their garage.
Concerned
April 21st, 2010
Over many years I have borne witness to misdiagnosis after misdiagnosis that has further damaged peoples' lives unnecessarily. Because there is so much stigma and discrimination associated with "mental ill health" I am concerned about: 1) the language used (it continues to 'shame' individuals and communities in nature and impact); 2) the way that the diagnosis becomes politicised which further alienates people from the help and support they really need and can access; and 3)precludes people from being able to maintain, access or transfer their insurance policies according to need.
It is NOT just clinical services that are required - it is a systemic & structural re-evaluation of all the obstacles associated with addressing these peoples' needs at the source.
Anything else will just exercabate the deception and lack of accountability in why this devastating situation continues to occur in the first place.
Well done for a great beginning in Hope...
Frances Yule
August 23rd, 2010
Your comment
Nat
April 21st, 2010
Too many young people in Australia have their lives blighted by mental health issues.
The Federal and State governments need to step up to the plate and put real dollars into mental health.
This is more important than all the "major sporting events" that governments seem to fund so easily.
Let's make Australia a world leader in youth mental health!
sickofshorttermthinking
April 21st, 2010
We do not currently have a health system. We have a disease system- whether mental or physical. It is high time we looked at prevention of the illness issues we face. We need to take a look at food advertising and content, the values promoted by the media, recreating the sense of community and promoting more balanced life-styles. Promoting unhealthy lives based around appearances, processed foods, insular ambition, passive use of electronic media and the loss of the extended family is causing stress and disease. Why keep trying to fix the predictable resultant problems? It wouuld be far more intelligent and less costly all round to think ahead and prevent them in the first place.
Ultimo167
April 21st, 2010
Smart people question positivist ideas. I see none of that with the Get Up mental health campaign. You guys have simply jumped on the biomedical band wagon of big pharma and big psychiatry and accepted a whole truckload of untested assumptions as fact. The best solution to improving the mental health and well-being of our citizens is not to get as many kiddies as possible juiced up on psychoactive substances. The best solution is to offer general and targeted, whole of life, positive health promotion. For example, there is no national counselling service for the adult survivors of child abuse here in Australia (Ireland has one), even though the long term trauma caused by such abuse leads to negative mental health outcomes in adulthood. The adult survivors of child abuse cannot, as you propose, be treated with mega doses of psychoactive substances. The evidence strongly suggests that the best intervention for such people is long term therapy. You need to take a good hard look at what the objective, empirical evidence says about relying on psychoactive substances as the primary mental health intervention. That is, that they are extraordinarily cost inefficient and yield generally poor results.
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
I think we need more positive support and information dissemination, to the child carers in our society, about basic child development so that there is some understanding as to what are normal behaviours for the various stages of development, and those that aren't. Education and awareness programs are critical in informing about any subject or issue - look at how children are educated now about what is okay and what is not - years ago we didn't have 'Stranger Danger'; we didn't have awareness programs that told us what was acceptable touching and what was not and what to say to someone about it etc., instead, we learned later because our basis for comparison didn't exist then, we only knew what we grew up in - seeing that as normal.
It is our responsibility as adults to fight to make the world a safe harbour for our children, all children; to educate our children, to empower them to act, and to have them understand that it is okay to speak up. We have to manage the existing problems as we get to this point.
This has to be done by way of having some form of international standard that all countries subscribe to - otherwise the problems never get fixed; the cycle continues - and victims often becomes a perpertrators.
There will be no end to many of our problems until we empower the weak and oppressed. Shame on us for not stopping this a long time ago - shame on those of us that say nothing; shame on those of us who do nothing because what you accept, you approve. To not act is to condone. We need international standards to protect children all over the world, because if we don't protect them all, we don't ever fix the problems.
Andrew
April 21st, 2010
I'm sure you're in touch with NGOs that specialise in helping those with mental health issue like Beyond Blue. I also know that Mission Australia does an enoromus amount of research and has community services that focus on mental health especially of young people. Perhaps you should have a coordinated campaign with these guys. Best wishes,
JPP
April 21st, 2010
I'm confused. This sounds like a real GetUp victory & I guess it's going in the right direction towards more support services for the mentally ill. However, the next thing I read was on Crikey.Com where Sebastian Rosenburg, a Senior Lecturer in Mental Health Policy at Sydney University was saying the opposite. The bit that caught my eye was about the hotchpotch of government aid that people have to wade through to find appropriate help. It seems that a complete reorganisation of the system is required first, otherwise we will have been hoodwinked into believing that lots of money has been spent and we don't have to worry about the outcome anymore. No doubt lots of money will have gone , but perhaps not where it will be most useful? Could you check this out please?
Lisa
April 21st, 2010
It is great to see this start, but there is a massive section of the population that I think keeps being overlooked time and time again. I strongly advocate fighting for treatment for those people with psychotic illnesses, but what about those who are mentally ill and don't suffer a 'psychotic' illness? Hospitals are often not a benificial place for such people, and yet so much of the time it is the only available option. Private psychologists in many areas have long waiting lists and cannot provide care in times of real need, such as when a client is suicidal. Being admitted to hospital, while keeping the person alive, doesn't allow them to deal with their issues because there is a lack of adequate 'talk therapy' as they cater more for psychotic patients and the treatment is drug focussed.
Please, please, please, help me get this message accross. There needs to be another service, because this system often doesn't work for non-psychotic patients.
Troubled
April 21st, 2010
GetUp has done a great job of bringing attention to the much needed reform of Australia's mental health system. Yet I notice that the main achievement of this campaign is more funding for McGorry's vision for mental health reform. His is a narrowly biomedical approach. While well intentioned, it casts the diagnosis net too wide and this is very dangerous for young people who are in emotional crisis. Are 1 in four young people like me really 'clinically disordered', or are we just miserable about a world that is unsustainable, unequal, disempowering and spiritually malnourished. Entering mental health services often causes 'secondary wounding' because of the very nature of the services services like Headspace. I would like to see more attention paid to community development, not more support for psychiatrists who have millions of dollars of backing from overseas pharmaceutical corporations. Getup should really assess its priorities.
Craig
April 21st, 2010
I agree. While it is great to have a high profile figure on board for this campaign, we need to be careful of claiming victory just on the basis of dollars allocated. Biomedical approaches to mental health may have their place, but it is important that we get clear about what sort of mental health we are aiming for. Now that the profile of this problem has been raised, it would be a perfect time for GetUp to coordinate a well represented public debate about what sort of mental health system we want. The true needs of society may not be for more money poured into biomedically focused mental health. There are different approaches to healing, demonstrated particularly well in many non-industrialized countries, in which tight knit communities play an important role in helping people through troubled times. I think the question we need to ask is whether the biomedical approach to treatment is in the best interest of people who are suffering mental illness, or whether it is a crutch adopted by industrialized societies like Australia, treating the symptoms but not the cause of mental illnesses, so that the 'rest of us' can go on with business as usual. Having raised the profile of this issue, I believe that GetUp has the responsibility to contribute to a public debate about a new vision for mental health.
Rat
April 21st, 2010
Hospitals are the great money gobbling institutions of the world. The best model for health is Community Health Centres staffed by Allied Health professionals, nurses and if necessary a doctor. The needs of communities are met at all levels and A&E dept.s at hospitals are less overcrowded. Mental health counselling fits into this model. The Howard Govt. refused to fund community health and it slowly deteriorated/disappeared all around Australia. Restablish Comm health and a huge amount of health and funding woes will disappear. Aged Care also fits this model and stops the long waiting lists of elderly people waiting at hospital for relatively minor issues. Community Health Centres are a "one stop shop" and can give excellent standards of health care. Think about it.
Still disappointed
April 21st, 2010
Good for young people, but what about the many who have suffered terribly for so many years and are neglected by the current system. Many urgently need support and employment opportunities which, despite all the rhetoric, are virtually non-existent.
BeatBipolar
April 21st, 2010
The agreement on the youth services is fantastic but it is a drop in the bucket and definitely Paddy's bailiwick. However, "health care" includes mental health. The entire mental health system should be included in the reform. Otherwise it will be left to the States with no-one to answer to, and fall backwards among other State financial committments e.g. to the grand prix. National standards for mental health that are written from scratch and applied by the Commonwealth may prove to be a mechanism for ensuring adequate services in terms of both quality and quantity of beds. I am sure Prof McGorry can be persuaded to broaden his scope now that youth mental health has been embraced.
Mental health beds are a more serious issue that waiting times for elective surgery. People who are sick are refused a bed (because there isn't one) and go on to become sicker. This can lead to criminal activity, huge stresses on family members, and death. More beds are needed in mental health so that 'ordinary-sick' people can be treated as they are in the private mental health system. I as a pensioner maintain private health insurance because of this fact: when I get sick I want treatmeant when I need it. The tag line here could be 'treatment when you need it'.
Great to have a chance to talk to GetUp!
Chris
April 21st, 2010
Our son had a diagnosis from our GP and adolescent Mental Health team of depression, anxiety and anger management challenges. To quote the School Counsellor, "We saw no change in his behaviour." So no appropriate support for our son or us. Everyone tells us School Counsellors need to be aware that there are appropriate services for adolescent mental health, it is a serious issue and not necessarily apparent at school.
Suzanne
April 21st, 2010
There are new and extremely effective treatments for mental health disorders, like Emotional Freedom Techniques. As a counselling psychologist, I have amazing success with clients on a daily basis, clearing emotional disruptions and freeing clients of mental health disorders. Governments need to be looking at these new treatments. They provide rapid relief for clients and therefore costs of treatment are considerably reduced.
cazbug
April 22nd, 2010
my daughter became psychotic at 16 and 7 years later and and i have lost count of the number of long stays in hospital being held down and injected with drugs that made her worse ,she is now sleeping on the streets where she feels safe from being dragged off for more abuse and imprisonment, in all the time spent in hospital never once was she given psycho therapy or proper nutrition or anything else that would have helped her in anyway.psych nurses not only treated her like she was a criminal but treated me like that also because i questioned why they were giving her the same old drugs that didnt work in the last 4 hospitals.they wont even let patients have vitamins in hospital cause its against hospital policy !
mary
April 24th, 2010
I am totally agree with you. Accept my sympathy.
Thomas Wertheim
April 21st, 2010
Labor gave us medicare,and it is working well,now Kevin Rudd has gone one step further and given us a national health care system. Thnak Prime Minister
Ann
April 21st, 2010
Now we need to get stuck into the West Australian Premier and, of course, Tony Abbott.
Thomas Wertheim
April 21st, 2010
Yes indeed,but I am confident that he will wake up and realize,that western Australians will not tolerate the stand that he is taking,as most western Australians are for the new deal.But Tony Abbott is a on a mission impossible,with no policies,but make believe ones,that he cannot even convince people that he can deliver
thetannykid
April 21st, 2010
Now we have to get stuck into euthanasia. Just because some bigoted religo wants to follow the laws of his bible other non-believers have to go along with the present policy. Anyway, when the bible was forumlated, it was a totally different society to what it is today.
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
ignoring the references to religion, law, and society of old; the issue today as I see it is that there is no dignified exit for people who suffer beyond bearing - especially the aged. My friend who was in his 80s and had suffered horific health problems and was practically blind and shuffled along, had no quality of life - and because of the law, could not tell anyone that he intended to gas himself in his car - as a result he died alone, without anyone aware of what he was about to do because he knew that if he said anything, they would be implicated in his death - if that is Euthanasia in the 21st Century, we ought to be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves - its a disgrace. A decent mental health system would include a process for assessing a persons wish to end their life should THEY believe that they cannot continue where there is no way out for them. It would also make living wills compulsory for situations where a person becomes senile or unable to care for themselves - if that persons wish whilst normal would be to state that they would choose not to be kept alive to wander, in a daze, out on some road and get killed like one lady I knew.
Jane
April 21st, 2010
I would like funding to help more people understand mental health disease and how prevalent it is in our society, so that we can continue to remove the stigma associated with mental health problems. I feel that the stigma goes a huge way to blocking access to help: the stigma lies with the individual sufferer and also the community. It is a hidden, silent tragedy that touches so many lives, but is so often carried alone. I am concerned that the extra funding is directed to young people with mental health issues: why should we exclude older people?
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
Well said, Jane - I concur wholeheartedly - people who suffer are too ashamed to seek help. Non sufferers are often too embarrassed to escalate when they see someone is clearly not coping - so they get ignored and they carry the burden alone, or worst still in the workplace, this becomes a living nightmare where sufferers often manifest as the workplace bullies that harrass and create living hell for people around them by subjecting them to victimisation, sledging and bullying when they seriously need access to help, support, guided couselling, but instead they seem to be in a position of supervision over others. I have seen horrible fallout where workplace bullies create more mental health issues for those that suffer at their hands - one girl even lost her baby because of bullying and harrassment at work!
WAKE UP AUSTRALIA! WAKE UP MINISTERS! and lead the way in making a stand on taking the stigma out of the community, and creating space for people to expose this cripling epidemic and be able to seek help, without fear of labelling. If bullying and harrassment can have a list of behaviours that exposes its existence, then so can depression and other common mental illnesses. Insurance companies dole out over $58 bllion in workplace bullying and harrassment related injuries - go figure!
Trang Thuy Nguyen
April 21st, 2010
Your comment Like I e-mailed Getup before, just before I suffered from my psychosomatic illness at the age of seven because of anxiety whilst I was growing up before that, I got sick with this mental illness because I chose to go down along that path because that's the only easiest way for me to choose as I remembered clearly that this happened before in one of my past re incarnations. And as for past re incarnation, as soon as I heard about it at a young age, I believed that re incarnations is true even though i didn't know why because of my anxiety. But then some time early this year, a psychosomatic healer in New Zeland taught me briefly about Dianetics. And so, as I became more and more interested in it,I'd think about it every night because I had a lot of trouble sleeping; and every time I do, I'm able to learn more by logic sense as this is what I had since I had serious brain damage because of my rare chronic illness. And I thought that I was able to learn and/or knows facts that Western society doesn't even know of because the god/goddesses in my Buddhist religion taught me. But then I came to realized that I was able to learn facts that Western society doesn't even know of because my past experiences in my past re incarnation. An I now know that mind; from which l.Ron.Hubbarb called the reactive stores all your traumatic experiences in it even if it seems like you don't remember it at all. And I know for a fact that it's because it happened in your past re incarnation and not your current one because you can't even remember all things that happen in your current lifetime; and it's because of the traumatic experiences that interferes with your wise brain. And by having your doctors say that you don't have a good memory or intelligence because of the way your psychical body is, that's not true; because the only the only reasons why it seems that you are dumb or don't have a good memory because of your psychosomatic illness. And when your brain is able to get rid to your psychosomatic illness, your reactive mind becomes clear and is able to think and even remember things of the past that you've learnt or have things that happened to you. And at least one group from the organization of YMCA is Checklist 8; and a psychological student who already has a family and is in her 40s created it; and it a group for those who are mentally ill. And I still go to it because I enjoy it and the older adults from this group and also because I've been helping the other two people who joined because they're suffering from psychosomatic illness. And because this group is from YMCA, yesterday, one of the older ladies, Sophia Liddy told me that YMCA doesn't make much profit; and so, they're still able to get through because she told the group and I that a man help Checklist 8 raise money to keep this group going. And another thing that I've been thinking about is working and continue to learn on how to help people with psychosomatic illness. And besides another couple of reasons why I want and need to work is because I've this been suffering from psychosomatic illness for so long as it was probably caused when I lived in my first re incarnation as I saw flashback of the traumatic experience that caused it, this psychosomatic illness has been passed onto re incarnation after the other. And so, my current counsellor told me that she's going to give me three weeks of thinking of a type of job that I want to work as. o at first, I was thinking that I want to work as a gardener with the gardeners at the Royal Children's Hospital. But the nsome hours later, my mind DID NOT want to work as a gardener as I wanted to work as something that I am still passionate about; and that's helping people with psychosomatic illness. And not long ago, I asked the guy who taught me briefly on Dianetics if he could buy m the Dianetics DVD pack from which it has 2 DVDs in it worth of four hours of L.R.ON.Hubbarb's findings on Dianetics. But the only problem with me wanting to work there is that if anything happends to me whilst I'm working, my parents think that the other workers will psuh me to continue to work; and so, they'll both forbid me to work there even though I'm 22 years old. =/
April 21st, 2010
Great to hear the news but can please accentuate the need for better mental health support in COUNTRY Victoria and for people of all ages.
JoJo
April 21st, 2010
If school counsellors and/or community mental health services could be a mandatory "check up" for adolescents, perhaps more kids would find benefit from discussing mental health issues without the stigma attached to such consultations.
Jeanene Frosch
May 18th, 2010
Many children are bullied but schools do nothing about it or very little. Usually if anything is done it is to defend the perpetrator, it must be the victim's fault. This seems to be the way Australians deal & people in positions of power deal with these issues. Not to immediately confront the issue is cowardly. This abuse happens in the home, school, workplace, hospital, church, elderly person home etc. Almost every day there are reports of abuse in the media, newspapers, talk back radio & TV. TOO HARD & everyone is let down. Why would school counsellors pick up or do something that our society thinks is OK?
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
JoJo - well said - the answers are there if we look for them, and the great thing about this forum, is it exposes suggestions from many perspectives, and it takes that to solve complex issues.
I think your idea is great, especially after having watched the positive impact of a school counseller who supported a friends daughter, I was impressed. I think that we are afraid of being labelled as 'nuts' if we voluntarily get a 'check up' - even if it was just by way of sounding off about how we feel and comparing our feelings to those of others, but sometimes I see people just saying "I'm fine" because they don't want to be seen as not coping.
If going to the dentist is seen as the responsible care of the health of our teeth - why should getting a mental health check be seen as anything different?
Wyvernsrose
April 21st, 2010
this is GREAT progress so please don't take this as too much of a slap.
mental health doesn't JUST effect 12-25 year olds although it is the time to effect a real change for them. we don't want to help them through that period only to discover once they are 25 they are on their own and the true state of mental health in this country. early intervention can minimise the impact and severity....but it can't eliminate mental health issues later in life....we need mental health solutions for all Australian's.
there is an exceptionally long way to go yet
Tim
April 21st, 2010
Funding centres, and the programs in them, is all well and good but it will all be for nought if there is no backing from the general community. Mental health issues a commonly miss-understood and maligned in the community. Even the most common mental illness, depression, is neither understood nor is it accepted in many cases. Mental health starts quite literally at home, destigmatizing it is, has and always will be the first step. Much, much more should be spent on public education and acceptance campaigns than is currently being done. And this should be done without cutting into the already meagre budget of mental health.
Inthefamily
April 21st, 2010
Our family has been affected by mental health. The fact that mental health is treated as a poorer second level of importnace by people on the streets is unfortunately understandable. That this attitude is replicated by the institutions that are paid to know better, and to treat all health ailments equally, is damnable. There is no excuse.
holly coffee
June 22nd, 2010
Absolutely right. Inthefamily.
It is not only damnable (and they are damned in the old fashioned sense of the word), it is criminal.
And the victims of this systemic abuse need to be compensated. That is the only thing that will make them take notice. One needs humanity to take notice of the victims suffering.
Amy
April 21st, 2010
Its disgusting that the government will fund 17.5million for cricket & 13million to support Mental Health nurses. If this statistic is true - its a very sad state of affairs. What hope do we have...when our govt. cares more about a bat and a ball.....that the health of its citizens.
GetUp Group - can you pose this question to the govt? Can you find out what their excuse is for such a poor allocation of funds. Its simply embarassing that we spent more on sport than on health!
Nicole Stephens
April 21st, 2010
Please give us health reforms for mental health it is desperatily needed for all australians, as mental health impacts on us all.
April 21st, 2010
Just because you've thought in the past people with mental health problems didn't understand politics and vote for govts who are mental health friendly.....
WELL.. THINK AGAIN!!
In the 1950s and again in the 1980s when flush outs of mental institutions helped by more modern drugs occurred there were political "PROMISES" ( for what they're worth) of redirecting the funds to community mental health.
WHAT HAPPENED?!
Dr Andrew Dunn GP
Kabweman
April 21st, 2010
I find so many of GETUP's actions mindless. We currently have one, of if not the biggest, debt in Australia's history and yet we seem to want more expenditure for the elderly,education and the mentally ill. Yes, all worthy causes but who will pay? I pity those in work who will foot the bill with increased taxation. I suggest GETUP forms a political party and try governing and supporting their causes through the ballot box, not rabble rousing on the sidelines. This is all care, no responsibilty nor accountability and doesnt fit our democracy.
Jeannene Frosch
May 18th, 2010
Typical. Is Kabeman a young financially well off contributor of Liberal association? Haven't we heard this all before? When Labor got into power all I heard from the previously voiceless was we need increase in pension, we need our public schools updated, we need money for hospitals, we need infrastructure, we need, we need. The bleating from the Liberals that they were the best financial managers was deafening. Why didn't they spend money on it's citizens & infrustructure???? Why did they spend so much money on the better off? Why did they waste so much money on their constituents, the railway in QLD, the hospital in Tasmania to name a few. Now the well off are bleating about the debt they think they have to pay. They don't mind using the infrastructure that previous generations paid for railways, roads, hospitals, schools, universities, Etc They also complain that if they don't want to have children they shouldn't pay for anything to do with children they forget that they were children too & who is going to pay for their retirement not them our children. HOW DID WE BECOME SO VERY SELFISH???? They have had it too good not like earlier generations.
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
I wonder how you will feel about your comments when you join the ranks of the elderly, or the mentally ill or if someone very, very close to you does. You are obviously already in the ranks of those needing education.
Who will pay if these issues are not addressed? the causes must be addressed and exposing them is what happens by encouraging participation, it gives a voice to the issues, and it won't cost any less if its left until someone can be bothered.
Kabweman, I am glad that you are not in my circle of friends and family, because if I was unfortunate enough to go through some kind of life changing event that lead to a depressive, short term mental illness, or if I was the victim of a bully in the workplace; or worst still, I was your child who, after being bullied at school, becomes suicidal, I would not be able to rely on you to help me get through it - I feel sad for your friends, family and colleagues.
Having a voice, the opportunity to be heard, the ability to contribute to change, to be human and suffer human illnesses without being dismissed - that is democractic.
Hitler singled out the mentally ill, the elderly and countless others - history shows us what doing nothing does!
Billy\'s sad
April 21st, 2010
Mindless you say? Rabble rousing on the sidelines? Kabweman, pardon me (I wish to remain respectfull if I can) but you've missed the whole point. Looking at these issues from a purely financial perspective won't fix a thing. Nor will ranting against one of the finest, community-based organisations our country has ever seen. Grass roots democracy, on-line, encourages the people to participate in ways never seen before. Members of GetUp are taking a valid role in making necessary changes in our society by adding their voice to the debate. Here's a thought- try being a little positive for a change and look past old-fashioned ways into a new future!
Billy\'s sad
April 21st, 2010
It's commendable to do what we can to fix mental (as well as physical) health issues but I can't help but feel we're missing something important. Many health issues are a direct result of societies failings and perhaps it's things like lack of self-esteem or validation in our lifestyles, along with improved health education that could be addressed? Might it be fundamental changes in how our society functions that could help us to turn the corner? Malcolm Frasier said once that 'life wasn't meant to be easy' but why does it have to be so flamin hard? I'm continually staggered to see so many family and friends suffering needlessly as a result of difficult and stressful situations in their lives! But, if it's any consolation (and a good idea to have a little perspective), things are a lot worse in other places on our world and we are a lot farther along at looking after ourselves than, say, the Americans are. Cold comfort, I know, but a little pride in our lovely land and confidence in our elected leaders can and will reap huge benefits, as long as we all keep the pressure on!
marvie
April 21st, 2010
This was always about control as the state health bureacracies and their ministers and premiers fought tooth and nail to retain their bureaucracies' future and real control of funding of health services. For every $100 of health funding given by the Commonwealth to the states for health services, $20 is skimmed off for "administration"..... more project officers, more advertising, more non service delivery activity. Over time state bureaucracies become bloated and ineffective.Their time has come and gone. Better that the funds be given to NGO's who offer the best chance to break the deadly embrace of state based health bureaucracies.
Fiona.
April 21st, 2010
Its now time for Get Up to start documenting the positive things the federal governemnt has done. There is a real danger that they might loose the next election and we'll have John Howard version 2 only worse, and all the reforms the Rudd government has been trying to implement will be wittled away again. Don't loose sight of the ideologies that inform the 2 major party's decisions.
April 21st, 2010
What a shame we only received that meager amount. We in Rockhampton could use that alone just to catch up. But at least we have a stsrt, something to work with. Well done team. Thanks. Bruce
Judy
April 21st, 2010
The biggest need outside of the umbrella of medication is accomodation, accomodation, accomodation - supported and unsupported. Fast-tracking access to public housing for higher functioning singles who do not relate well to others or who are threatened by share accomodation, would give them the dignity of their own space and relieve a huge burden on those of us who care for them or share homes with them.
The higher functioning mentally ill are also those who refuse medication and it cannot be forced on them, and I have no answer to that. These are the forgotten ones.
Joanne
April 21st, 2010
Judy, if accomodation needs for people with mental health problems were sympathetically addressed, along with therapeutic long term relationships with effective service providers there could be a revolution in outcomes. Some non government services are filling the service gaps that community mental health can't cover, but we need heaps more of these services -especially in rural areas. With Prof McGorry's early intevention AND the supported accomodation you mentioned there would be less medication, more 'recovery'.
Judy
April 22nd, 2010
Hi Joanne, I agree with the idea of 'recovery' as opposed to medicate and forget. And when talking about dignity above, I would like to qualify that I did NOT mean psyche ward accommodation or anything institutionalized. Independent living has to be the aim and recovery is more about learning to "know thyself" rather than remaining on "crisis" level doses of medication which render the task of self-knowledge impossible. On the Sunshine Coast in Queensland, there is a wonderful program for recovery that that educates the mentally ill. It is funded by the Kirk Foundation and any monetary investment in mental health would do well to investigate their methods of recovery and follow their model.
Byronic
April 21st, 2010
As others have already commented, it's about time the government started realising the extent of the mental health issues of Australians, and the cost (directly and indirectly) it has on the public (the tax payers).
With my own issues with depression, and a brother who is schizophrenic, I have seen the time and effort spent by various government agencies in dealing with him. I believe the police bear the brunt of the trouble, as not enough effort is spent on treating people properly, instead the health system just does a 'medicate and release' treatment, then when the ill person has trouble, the police are usually called, costing them time and money to resolve the situation and get them back into treatment (assuming the officers are aware and have training in dealing with mental illness - many seem not to, or do not have the patience to deal with them correctly). Often its a different hospital, so the doctors must then diagnose and treat from scratch (especially when it happens across multiple states/territories) prompting another spin of the merry-go-round.
A small step but a positive one... keep up the pressure everyone :)
Susan Cradock
April 21st, 2010
It's about time the issue of "Mental Health" is properly addressed! As a sufferer myself with mental health issues, I feel for those who don't have a supportive family and close social network which I am so fortunate to have.
Initially it was really difficult to admit to such a problem, largely due to the social stigma and it was difficult to access appropriate treatment for such a condition, which can be in some cases a life long problem. This problem,(mental health) alienating many people from the general population, again due to the lack of resources and staffing.
I personally have been extremely fortunate to have access to great doctors and they have assisted me during the last 20 years. Unfortunately,it's only because a relative is in the field of 'Mental Health' and I have had the opportunity to access their expertise and skills.
How about an even larger increase for 'Mental Health???'
Just have a look at Professor Petrick McGorry's facial expression on the 'Get Up' sight.... I think it says a lot about what he is feeling and how much he cares for the cause of 'Mental Health'
Regards Susan
zulu
April 21st, 2010
This is wonderful news. All areas of mental health are important, little attention though is given to infant mental health. The earliest of all prevention begins in the womb and the first twelve months of life. Family mental health/parenting strategies the grassroot foundations have a strong impact on physical/emotional development duing infancy, and hence on the evolution of today's Y generaion. This area is slowly growing but most health professionals and the public at large are unaware of this area of mental health, even mental health professionals themselves.
kazbarini
April 21st, 2010
Hey Zulu...you are spot on. Until governments consider our most valuable resources our children....this argument goes nowhere. This is all part of preventive strategies that save a bundle of $$ down the track. I am in my fifties and lost many years of work and a house to early childhood trauma...well the recovery. Lost productivity, lost years of capable parenting, lost years of contribution to community. These are enormous costs borne out over a lifetime of mental health issues.
Early intervention is the only way
April 22nd, 2010
Mental health support during pregnancy is pivital. I had a contesting relationship with the father when I had my first child. The midwives at Logan Hospital screened me for a in-home nurse. Great service. She was friendly, supportive, and best of all, I got to see her. It would have been too much of a hassel to go down to the public child nurse service with my baby.
Best of all, i felt head and supported. It did a lot for my 'recovery' of what could have been a much worse parent - child relationship. =)
I guess being honest with the child health nurse is a risk, cause she may have just as easily taken me into mental health system, but it worked out and I am grateful.
Ebony Jackson - Lifeline counsellor
April 21st, 2010
That's great news! I just hope it happens soon as... Rural Australia needs urgent attention, most people living in smaller communities are unable to access mental health care when they most need to....sadly some are unable to cope and they suicide. Services are a non-event, are only located in the city, or the waiting list is so long to see a professional, transport issues prevent access to help...people lose hope because it is all too hard. If we can get past people being disenfranchised and marginalised...it will be so good. Great work GetUp team! thank you, Ebony :)
April 21st, 2010
We need comprehensive health care for everyone this includes mental health and dental health - Please think wholistically - we dont mind paying for the service all Australians need.
Team
April 21st, 2010
This is a GREAT start to our mental health campaign! As I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and STILL in therapy that started in 1998 at the age of 45, and as 1:3 women are in this category, and how many men are I don't know, and as I have multiple admissions into the Trauma and Dissociation Unit at Belmont Private hospital, Brisbane every year, and finally, as this is the ONLY inpatient place for trauma and dissociation IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE, we really do have a long way to go, but I feel and believe that this is the beginning of what will be a productive and successful quest to put mental health in the spotlight and then address it. PHEW!!
Dugal
April 21st, 2010
It is about time Mr Rudd stopped playing politics and did the job for which he was elected, that run the country. He knows mental health is a key factor in young people's lives yet he continues to pay lip-service to the problem. Yes he has had a minor amount of money allocated but has obviously not thought it important enough to be be considered as a big ticket item to win votes. With the number of young people suiciding as mentioned in the recent conferance report it appears he is wearing blinkers blinkers, or does not care. Draw your own conclusions.
Reform?
April 21st, 2010
The mental health system requires more than dollars. There is a crying need for rethinking the framework and questioning the dominance of a flawed and inadequate medical model and the appalling lack of patient rights in the sector. These questions and the direction of 'reform' need to be clarified for Get Up supporters rather than unquestioning support for more of the same. I applaud Get Up's decision to campaign in this important area but, like others who have commented, think that an informed community debate about what sort of services are needed is vital.
faraway friend
April 21st, 2010
Reform?
I agree with you, and add that such discussions needs to be promoted widely, hopefully with a realisation that personal choices of the 'patient' must be both respected and supported holistically - to enable rather than automatically medicate.
Sometimes, to reject the medical model causes people to reject any kind of assistance and lead to an everyday which is difficult for many Australian's to imagine living in, not to mention face the stigma and challenges alone. Please Australia.
Jonathan Finighan
April 21st, 2010
Excellent campaign GetUp!! Two thoughts on framing (these have probably been covered in other comments our discussions but they sprung to my mind when I saw the email in my inbox). Number 1: Mental health is just as important as phsical health. Number 2: Spending money on mental health is not a cost, it is an _investment_. How much money does society save by intervening early in mental health problems? What is the "return" per $ invested? It would be possible to calculate this, drawing on research in psychology and mental health journals, and if one could do it it would make a very powerful argument for the government to invest in the mental health of young Australians.
April 22nd, 2010
of course, the reason that little is done in prevention and community support for mental health is because of the powerful allies in the drugging industries. If you haven't done so already, google Making A Killing. you can watch the whole 90minute documentary on youtube - each chapter is 5-10 minutes. it is a bit overdone, alotta hype, but the message is that drug companies influence our mental health services, and we need to GET A SECOND OPINION about mental health treatment. If someone is not on drugs yet - get a second opinion before they start, and if you are already on medication, get a second opinion and seek our a professional who will talk you through a recovery that introduces (safely) a withdrawal of the medication. specialist natural therapists and acupunturists are able to do this, i know they cost more than the public health system but of course, think of the long term savings and the message you are sending to your government bodies. credence.org is another place to get the truth on mental health treatment, esp nutrition.
of course, it is not safe for anyone to take themselves off medication, but if we all spread the word, just like this, we can let our dollars decide what works and what has influence in the future of mental health services.
Lee-Anne
April 21st, 2010
My daughter was diagnosed with clinical depression 18 months ago. We were fortunate enough to fall into a programme at Princess Margaret Hospital which meant she was fast tracked into care. The staff were wonderful and she is now stable, medicated but stable. Having felt so powerless to save our beautiful girl from her own sharp implements and self-hatred, we are very pleased to know more will be done. In so many ways this one step could save thousands of lives, young lives and the lives of those who love and support those young one. Thank you for giving us the power to do something.
April 22nd, 2010
Lee-Anne, so glad to hear your daughter is stable. Please have a read of the comment i wrote before your post - please have a look at Making A Killing on youtube. Not sure which medication your daughter is on, but try looking at nutrition and support services to maintain her stable health. the reason mental health is the largest killer of undr 45's is because of the drugs we are given - and then if lives are ended, drug companies blame the illness, when it is usually the medication that induces the chronic effects of mental illness in the long term.
Having worked in both mental health and the wellness industry, i have seen this first hand.
davaller
April 21st, 2010
Well we in WA are in limbo as our Mr do nothing Premier has done nothing again as far as health goes except grandstand so we wait again that is what WA means with this present government
davaller
Heather Brunton
April 21st, 2010
Congratulation to all those who participated to bring about change to Mental Health. I am crying as I write this as my own son who suicided could not benefit from this boost to funding but I am happy that others may not have to experience the pain we as a family have had to endure. We will however not rest on our laurals as we see that this amoundt is insuffient to meet the growing need, in paricular of our youth. Congratulations too to Professor McGorry. What a lovely world it would be if all those in posititions of responsibility did as he has.
Sage Femme
April 21st, 2010
I support this campaign but I am very tired that Get Up has repeatedly ignored maternal health. More women die from their own hand after giving birth than from any other cause. Childbirth is the largest volume area of health and accounts for the greatest number of hospital bed stays. Maternity was the first area of reform but the maternity services review did nothing to reform medical control of childbirth (something that has continued to see women fall through the cracks with mental health issues). Just like mental health, maternity care is best when it is largely community based. The opposite is the case and it is not only hurting Australian women, but all other health consumers affected by the gross overservicing by obstetricians. The carers of our future generation deserve better and GetUp needs to start listening.
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
This is a critical issue - and it must be a priority for a public education and awareness perspective - I suffered depression, no-one around me understood, I was even ridiculed, and told to get over it - it if wasn't for professional mental health services, community health, my doctor, psychologist and the staff of St Vinnies and the Salvo's - I would have ended my life for sure. During recovery, suicide was always there as a daily option, like an item on a mental to-do list: - vacuum floor - let cat out - buy break and milk - kill yourself
It is terrifiying - then one day it dissapears because the support, help, somewhere to go, someone to speak to without making you feel ashamed, finally works - Thank God for everyone who works in this industry - you deserve a medal. Please, please, please do not be one of those people who watches a family member or friend go down without alerting someone, depression is a real mental health issue, and the despair I experienced was so great, that a normal 'high on life' person who would never dream of contemplating suicide - lived with it, sitting there, and not knowing when I was going to tick it off the list - for over 3 years. Now I am through it (thanks to the support mentioned above) I would never ignore a cry for help from anyone, and I would certainly be able to recognise one now.
April 22nd, 2010
thanks for sharing.
Just wondering how medication played a part, and whether it still does.
good onya for respecting yourself enough to get support, and for being strong enough to get passed it.
April 22nd, 2010
Thanks for sharing. I don't think a lot of people realise that when you're in the hole suicide seems like the solution for everything. Despite fighting the thoughts in your head, anything becomes a reason for suicide. For me, I couldn't write a sentence-->obviously I'll never be able to write a sentence-->If I can't do that then I can't do anything else--> this will only get worse-->etc-->obviously I can't go on. The same thing would happen if I had an awkward social interaction. This sounds crazy, and it sounds like it might just be weakness or stupidity, but when you're in that hole you think in ways that you wouldn't recognise when you're not severely depressed. I'm still recovering and wondering if it'll come back, because every time I thought I was beating it it's come back worse than before.
I think a lot of the problem is that people don't understand depression or other mental illness, and that compounds the problem. We need an effective means of community education that doesn't require a close person to die before people are willing to learn. The tv ads don't work. What would?
permission2shine
April 21st, 2010
Whilst it is vital to focus on early intervention, for decades people who received inappropriate care in the system have been left with poorly functioning lives and it may take years of intensive assistance both in the community but also with various forms of therapy for these people to get anything like a 'normal' level of functioning again. I am one of these people. I know countless others. We must not be forgotten.
CDP
April 21st, 2010
Beyon primary care, beware the privatisation of care route, even to the not for profit sector. Experience in age care an disability services is that not withstanding the heroic efforts of most in both sectors, governments habitually cut funds and service quality and in effect use the sector to sweep the issues under the carpet rather than address them properly.
BARBARA
April 21st, 2010
SO glad to see the results of our collective efforts here.....It's good to see they can have an effect in getting through to our politicians..It's only too easy to be cynical and switch off - give up etc. But this is too important to ignore, in my opinion....
Alli
April 21st, 2010
I have been working in general practice for over 4 years and have seen a lot of adolescent & younger children with mental health issues in fact today I saw an 11 year with suicidal ideation. I am a registered nurse with a degree in psychology. The government insists that nurses need to be credentialled by the Australian College of Mental Health Nurses. They will not recognise my training in psychology so I am now no longer allowed to see these mental health patients BUT I have been doing it for the past 4 years ! When the Mental Health Nurse Incentive Program came in I made our practice a mental health practice with Medicare. I was already doing practice management at university so could not start another course and work. I gained a scholarship for mental health nursing BUT it is in no way helpful to general practice as it is all about adult mental health ! & we see it all on the primary health front! I have seen 6 year olds with mental health problems! The funny thing is I use what I learnt in developmental psychology more than I use what I learnt at Uni in Mental Health Nursing. If the Government sees fit to embrace the college of mental health nurses ideas ( whom I believe to be prestigous ideology) then why do they give psychologists Medicare Rebates and not Mental health Nurses under the MBS ? On the advice of the college of mental health nurses I started a masters in mental health but nearly burnt myself out doing two university courses & working ! I quit my Masters. I have been at university for the last decade but do not qualify for anything other than a registered nurse as that is my role at the surgery -yet the GP's ask my opinion & refer to me ! I have patients complaining now as I am unable to see them as we cannot get paid for it & general practice is a business ! where is the common sense ? GP's were once grandfathered into being specialists in General Practice in The Royal Australian College of General practitioners ! Why can't Registered Nurses be grandfathered into the Mental health Nurse Incentive Program to be credentilaed if they have been doing it for years when the need is so great ? It just means the mental health patients go without appropriate care & I concentrate on physical health problems for which we get paid ! where is the sense in that ?
swb
April 21st, 2010
I contributed to the fund for the ad & continue to lobby for mental funding and reform where I can. But, I think it is really important now to see further detail about proposed measures (including those from McGorry). I agree w/ a great number if the comments here, but some (perhaps too many) express a concerning demand to more readily institutionalise sufferers. The claim that people are discharged too early seems to be overwhelmingly coming from non-sufferers; perhaps those who've spent time in a psych hospital don't so hastily rush to see others similarly incarcerated. If we will lock people up, conditions and treatment must be far more humane than occurs at present. Get that right, then add beds. And further, some of Mcgorry's proposals re early intervention (esp. re medication) need to be opened to full scrutiny. GetUp, please facilitate a deeper exploration of reform options.
Christine
April 23rd, 2010
I am a "non-sufferer" and the mother of a young adult sufferer. Seeing my beautiful daughter's spirit in distress and confusion contained in a hospital during periods of accute unwellness is not pleasant. However this treatment in a safe and controlled environment is preferable to the alternative. Access to meaningful transitional/ongoing out of hospital programs is urgently needed across the board to allow "sufferers" to get on with life.
TooHard for the system
April 30th, 2010
I am the mother of a boy who suffered from mental health issues all his life, was never given appropriate treatment, mainly because he felt so stigmatised that he would refuse and preferred to self medicate.
This is what I want to say
"I would rather see 10 people hospitalised unnecessarily than miss the one that needs it".
For my son he would have been able to access a private hospital facility if preferred - but there was no way to get him to hospitalisation for assessment and treatment.
The 'system' refused to hospitalise or to treat has cost me my son - and at only 19 he had his whole life ahead of him.
Please support the push for changes - so that we can bring an end to the senseless loss of life and quality of life.
dianne
April 21st, 2010
My son is 25 and has been ill for 5 years now. I hope that he will be able to benefit from increased funding to mental health. I lhave seen the difference that a good psychiatrist and psychologist can do. Keep up the good work and pressure for adequate funding for early intervention and for ongoing care. Dianne
April 22nd, 2010
Glad to hear you son is on the mend Dianne. Psychiatrists have been taught one way to treat mental illness, but they are unable to cure it.
have a look around for a good, knowledgable natural therapist or acupunturist. they are more likely to get to the bottom of the cause and begin a recovery to integrated health for your son.
in china, medications are on the rise as western medicine wanes its way into their health care systems. but for mental illness and other non-acute physical condiditons, western medicine has been unable to convince the chinese hospitals that medication is better.
in most chinese hospitals, whole floors are dedicated to acupunture and much more effective than what we know here as treatment for many of our chronic conditions.
cazbug
April 22nd, 2010
have you heard about the Pfeifer treatment program.?.the only time my daughterhas been well in the last 8 years was while on this program. you can get the meds down to very low levels.William walsh is coming out here in may. worth checking out.
Jack
April 21st, 2010
Mental health in rural and remote regions of WA (and Australia generally, I imagine) is still more grossly under-resourced than metropolitan areas. There are fewer votes in the bush so we don't seem to be heard. I know of a number of individual farmers, for example, currently on suicide watch because of pressures resulting from deteriorating terms of trade in their industry. Government policies do not protect the very industry that feeds the nation.
Remember that every 3 to 4 days one Australian farmer succumbs to the despair caused by unbearable stresses. And these guys and their families don't even have an adequate and accessible counselling service. Premier Barnett saw fit to withdraw funding from the existing wheatbelt men's health service.
Mental Health centres are vital. But they need to be located in the bush too. And, more than centres, we need dozens more personally qualified and skilled people on the ground and mobile to respond to the increasing need.
I'd like to see policies and the money to fund them demonstrating that govertnments actually care about people. I don't believe they do; balancing the budget seems to be of greater value than actually governing which, at essence, means carrying out a duty of care to the people in any given electorate. Economic considerations must be secondary to this duty.
The approach needs to be 'what is needed and how will we fund it?' Instead we have 'this is all we can afford'. The present approach demonstrates a great lack nof wisdom and understanding.
W.A. left out
April 21st, 2010
While he rest of Australia is committed to the reform of the health system including mental health, Colin Barnett has put Western Australia in a position where we may be excluded from any benefits flowing from the health deal with the other states. This appears to me to be because he is still caught up in the pasy by trying to stand on his dignity for states rights.
W.A. left out
April 21st, 2010
While he rest of Australia is committed to the reform of the health system including mental health, Colin Barnett has put Western Australia in a position where we may be excluded from any benefits flowing from the health deal with the other states. This appears to me to be because he is still caught up in the past by trying to stand on his dignity for states rights.
richar
April 21st, 2010
You need to focus on the poor rewards for people working in the industry. Because the the Providers are under funded, the workers in the sector are paid minimul wages. This will always keep the industry in the doldrums. The people that work with my daughters should be over paid, not suffer the indignity of being paid a pitance, in most cases under the award wage.
Louisa John-Krol
April 21st, 2010
Hi, I'm using my own name not an alias because I'm fed up with mental health being taboo. As a writer, singer, educator and storyteller, with great friends and family relationships, a good recording contract, secure job, lovely cats, garden and many other interests including reading avidly, you wouldn't think I'd be a candidate for clinical depression or anxiety disorder. However, in recent years I was medicated for both, thanks to some terrible situations in my workplace that left me feeling vulnerable, stressed and at times so anxious that I could not leave the home. Thanks to affordable medical counseling, workcover leave and subsidized drugs (now halved in dose during recovery), I have been able to overcome this serious illness to become the ebullient person I was before descending into that fog. It is vital that people are able to access medical assistance for mental illness. That means not only making services and medication financially accessible, but also keeping communication open and the options diverse. Employees suffering bullying need to know that their best line of help is not necessarily the internal agencies provided or recommended by their employers, but that there are a range of broader options in the private sphere that have the freedom to support a workcover claim as they're not bound by contractual agreements. They are just as affordable, through the Commonwealth Mental Health Care Scheme. Another important step is to take this conversation out of the closet, in much the same way as we did with other social movements. Once people realize that mental illness can be curable, just like many other injuries or diseases, they might be less afraid to deal with it. I would even suggest that some creative qualities are inextricably connected with fragile temperaments, and that a truly tolerant society would include eccentrics rather than marginalize us. Attempting to "streamline" or "align" minds like mine is a form of managerial violence. I have seen this occur in oppressive bureaucracies on both right and left sides of the political spectrum.
Beenthere
April 21st, 2010
Thanks Louisa John-Krol, for your bravery and sharing your story, so close to my own. I don't think that there is even a realisation by some people at a clinical level as to the seriousness of the impact of mental illness on a person - nor the speed at which one can fall into the 'Fog' as you so aptly called it.
I agree that the internal agencies are not necesarrily the best course to take. I am so glad that you are on the road to recovery, and you are right - with intervention, support - both financial, psychological and the support of family/friends, a full recovery is possible for some.
If the topic was fully 'out of the closet' we would learn so much more about the human race; our characteristics and traits (of which there are over 4600, and we all have them showing to some degree at some time or other).
Perhaps we would then accept the richness of the many diverse personality types that make up our society and validate a person's basic human right to not be labelled because we fall outside the margins of the current and narrow definition of 'normal'. Good Luck to you.
magicmerlin
April 21st, 2010
Before Get-Up and its members are urged into supporting this push, I urge those who really do care about the issues to investigate the back-door deals and financial ties that Prof. McGorry and his friends have with the BIG Drug Companies who make and sell their psychotropic drugs that the Australian tax payers money is going further towards fattening their pockets.
Search engine the Congressional inquiry into Harvard Prof. Biederman and his undisclosed financial ties; to the SUM of 1.6 Million Dollars while writing the guidelines for mental health youth initiative that went world wide, promoting the very drug company that was paying the Professor.
While you are at it, you can search engine the Daily Telegraphs artilces on it by their Health Reporter: Kate Sikora.
Don`t go in blind here. DO your own homework and perhaps this push isn`t the best solution available for the issues and problems that we all face here.
In fact, don@t be surprised that you find other unscrupulous dealings between the drug companies and the very doctors who are charged with the care of those who need it most.
Recommended documentaries are:
1. The Corporation 2. Making a Killing 3. Generation Rx 4. The Marketing of Madness,
It strikes me that the source for the figure being used is not even being sourced or referenced but used here to indicate that it is the cause of untold deaths.
With no comparison to the money and the so called help that has already being given here by the very same professionals who are yet again holding out their hands while lining their pockets with Ca$h.
I found out that the psychiatric profession had the highest rate of suicide and that STRUCK me back then--1984 as being totally at odds to what I thought.
Please do your own homework before being emotionally guided into supporting the corporate fat cats and their misguided and criminal actions in promulgating their wave of drug prescriptions, leaving the wake of confusion and destruction behind them for family members to somehow pick-up
April 22nd, 2010
YEP YEP YEP
THANKS FOR POSTING
Sam
April 21st, 2010
Thanks to all those people who have spent time and energy campaigning on this issue - hopefully the reforms and funding will help more people to get the help they need.
vonim
April 21st, 2010
Crisis Intervention needs lots of work - and urgently. Police who are not trained in mental health intervention are often called to attend to people suffering a mental health episode, particularly in regional Australia. Police are trained to handle criminals and law breakers. Mental Health sufferers are often treated brutally and suffer enormous trauma as a result. In short, all Police must receive mandatory training in mental health care and more professional menatl health crisis workers must be employed.
TJ
April 21st, 2010
Hello, I work in child and adolescent mental health services, and what concerns me is that funding is not going towards early intervention (and I mean 0-10 year olds). Children at risk of mental health issues can be identified at a very young age, and when support is provided to that child and their family the risk of chronic mental illness decreases markedly, and thereby decreases the cost to our health system later. More focus on preventative measures should be given!! TJ
clare
April 21st, 2010
wow I cannot believe that Get-up is getting into a lobbying area such as mental health. And why is this suddenly becoming the flavour of the month ? Patrick McGorry is treading all over people's rights AND being incredibly judgemental of behaviors AND being a drug-pusher. He is even shunned by his peers for being outrageous. Come on guys, let's get back to treating people as human beings rather than drugging them !
April 22nd, 2010
Yeah, I agree Clare.
Sam, you've done a great job getting this campaign out. But now that we have attention, let's direct the issue toward non-drugging solutions and check where we are getting the campaign videos from :)
check out videos like Making A Killing - if you can't watch the whole 90mintues (each chapter 5-10 minutes) just watch the first and last ones :)
but, hey, thanks for intiating this campaign because it is comforting to know just how many people are aware of what is happening in psychiatry and that goes a long way in find a new solution :D
MHN
April 21st, 2010
The news of the achievements so far is good. But as a Mental Health Nurse who battled in the system for years, I know that real change cannot occur until there is a fundamental shift in the way mental health services deliver, or rather dont deliver, the services they are funded to provide. The families of people with MI seeking assistance for their loved one (who may not understand they they are ill) are turned away in droves from MH services. They are told help cannot be given as the person is not yet sick enough. The principle of early intervention does not exist and this change must occur in services for all adults with all illnesses not just those that will benefit from the new announcements of funding for EPPIC. It is a complex issue but until it is addressed new funding will not achieve what it is supposed to.
foureyes
April 21st, 2010
I'm furious and frustrated In the Illawarra there is ONE psychiatrist who does bulk-billing. With all the rest it is $430-450 for the first visit - out of the question for my son on a disability pension! The psychiatric ward in Wollongong Hospital is grossly understaffed and there is a two month wait for just assessment, let alone treatment. Not good enough
April 22nd, 2010
foureyes, this is a godsend in disguise!
natural therapists are only about $80hr and, if specialising in mental health and/or nutrition, are able to provide signifigant aid to your son - without the effects of poisoning with drugs that traditional treatments provide.
it is this long term drugging, and not the illness itself, that causes the highest cause of deaths in under 45's :(
Susan
April 21st, 2010
IF IT'S NOT WITHOUT THE RESEARCH BEHIND 'MENTAL HEALTH', many of our youth would, and at times,are going by the wayside!
Professor McGorry is only one person in the team who is endeavouring to highlight this issue in amongst our general society. When are both Federal & State Governments going to come to the party... I don't mean to be rude... BUT THE HEALTH REFORM SHOULD INCLUDE MORE THAN JUST HOSPITALS... shouldn't it????(I mean more than the few million which Mr Rudd has pledged to Mental Health !!!) ,if the future problems such as Mental Health is not addressed what will happen to our youth in the future???
These kids need help now !!! Fortunately I'm in the position where I can access medical assistance. What will happen to our future generation in need of help without assistance form groups like 'Headspace'etc,.!!!! Go For It Pat & Your Team!!! I & others back you all the way!!!
Roary6
April 21st, 2010
I have been involved with clients with mental illness for the past 30 years andI have seen many changes some for the better the most dont work as the Governments dont put the money in the right place it should go to support staff on the ground and now as before a lot of clients are in Social Housing threr should be workers who go to see medications are taken and the client is copping as a lot dont as they mix medication with illeagel drugs and most people dont care about the client some dont have good tenancies and are just put in the wrong accadomation all the time
ed
April 21st, 2010
Congratulations. Yes, there is still more to do, but the largest hurdle has been jumped. Well done.
CAL
April 21st, 2010
Mental health problems lead to functional disability in living, isolation in the community,and lack of understanding by those in the community who have never experienced or known some one with a mental illness. There is also discrimination in the work force for anyone who may have suffered depression,for example-they are seen as a liability in the work place and not to be considered reliable and hence are not considered for promotions. Anyone can be affected by stress and we all react differently to stress at different times in our lives. There needs to be much more awareness,education and support for all who have a mental illness. What wonderful work Beyond Blue and SANE have done and are still doing for these people. The worst thing that happened for those with mental illness was to be put back into the community without the proper care and support.
Sabine
April 21st, 2010
Well done, you're work is much appreciated.
Anna
April 21st, 2010
I would love to hear more about PREVENTION of mental health conditions. Our synthetic diets/processed foods, lack of sunlight and daily exercise and social isolation seem to be logical contributors to the avalanche in mental health deterioration. We are departing in our modern lifestyle so far from the behavioural and dietary reality of those whose DNA we have inherited, it is unsurprising that unwellness results!
Jeannene Frosch
May 18th, 2010
When Parliamentarians mostly the screeching Liberal females & others abuse & humiliate senior public servants in front of others they set the example & other cowards feel that it is acceptable for all Australians to be treated in this way. Psychological & emotional abuse is indemic in our society today, no respect for each other this is cause for a lot of mental issues & no one is doing anything about it. It is estimated that the cost to our society is around 7 billion dollars a year. If we could make a start to stop this type of abuse how much happier would the victims be & all this money could be allocated to our health needs. In the USA state by state is out lawing this type of abuse why cant we????? NO WILL TOO HARD, COWARDS, BULLIES.
Kirsty
April 21st, 2010
Yes mental health is a huge problem - not only for the person who is suffering - but also for their families. One thing that worries me is the fact that not enough publicity is given to the effects of drugs.I have seen vivid evidence of the effect of marihuana which is so often said to be a soft drug on those with a propensitiy for Schizophrenia. I think we need to look at the causes of mental health and health in general. As a nation we are about to spend billions of dollars on health. There are those who through no fault of their own develop or are born with an illness - but for many others a healthy lifestyle would save this nation billions. Can we spend a quantity of these millions promoting good health and some how addressing the root causes of many illnesses.
April 22nd, 2010
Kristy, science knows the cause. psychiatrists are not taught it because health makes sense but not dollars.
watch Making A Killing on youtube (first and last chapters sum it up)
go to credence.org
DandelionWings
April 21st, 2010
Mentally ill and therefore disabled, a patient at Headspace Camperdown, Mentor, Artist, Writer, Musician, Horticulturist. All of these things are what I am. It took several breakdowns, failures at university and a move from my country town to the city for me to received the treatment and care I required and could afford. When I left the country, my town was serviced by only one psychiatrist who travelled into town once every six weeks. Medicare did and does not cover enough of the costs of treatments, blood tests, psychological and physical tests required for ongoing treatment of mental illness, let alone the level of treatment I have received and the number of practicioners involved in the kind of treatment I have come to know as holistic and helpful. I am endebted to the people involved in my stability and ongoing treatment and do firmly believe that the Headspace clinics with their monitoring, services and activities have largely kept me out of the mental health hospital system. Not to provide funding for more of such vital programmes, particularly in rural areas is absurd, I hate to think of the other young people such as myself not receiving the treatment they so desperately need. Thank you Mr. Mc Gorry and Prof. Hickie for your ongoing elevation of the mental health issue into the media.
Assoc. Prof. M Kelly, PhD
April 21st, 2010
Mental ill health is largely ignored and hidden in Australian society. Few can afford or obtain necessary treatment and social support necessary to recover or social integration.
The health, happiness and prosperity of Australians and of Australia is dependent on four facets of health being optimised and balanced. These facets are physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. By spiritual, I don't necessarily mean religious. None of these human needs are fully supported or even recognised by government or the general community, especially, dental, mental, emotional and spiritual health.
Further, health as a government and community focus appears to be largely on healing and closing the door after the horse has bolted, with little focus on health maintenance or ill health prevention, especially in the mental area. Insufficient is done for the equitable distribution of opportunity, employment, healthcare and justice and too little is done to reduce: injustices, institution, organisational and school bullying, child abuse, domestic violence, substances abuses, social injustice.
The success of a society is indicated by the society’s ability to care for those that are less able.
Marie
April 22nd, 2010
I agree. In fact the enormous cost of healing the physical body to free it from the extreme toxic effects and attack by potent anti-psychotic medical drugs is much more than financial. I feared for my son's life, yet the psychiatrist kept ignoring the side effects I reported, claiming they were just part of the illness. When the medication's dose was lowered, he immediately showed signs of improvement!! He is now drug free and recovering from his first and last youth psychotic episode!! Thank God for alternative therapies, herbs, supplements, a healthy diet, exercise, sunshine, stress reduction, support and LOVE. Whilst not everyone sufferers from serious side effects, those that do are given no alternatives by psychiatrists since it's the ONLY approved treatment in hospitals. In fact the mere mention of alternative treatments sends some of them into total fear. And fear begets fear!! Although psychoactive drugs are very effective during a psychotic attack episode, they do not serve the healing process on a long term basis because so much more is required. IT IS THE 'SO MUCH MORE' THAT IS OFTEN LEFT OUT. Mental health does not start or end in the brain. In other countries, treatments such as magnesium injections, EFT and many other alternatives treat the gut ( very high numbers of neurotransmitters are concentrated in the gut), the brain, the emotions, the social aspect and the spirit. High doses of psychoactive drugs are potentially dangerous, specially long term. They should be solely prescribed to arrest the acute phase of the illness. Unfortunately they are also recomended long term in the HOPE that they will fully rectify chemical brain activity and thus, heal the whole person. A bit like a shot in the dark!! No wonder so many sufferers stay in the dark!!
Unfortunately in Australia, as in most western countries, psychiatrists represent the pharmaceutical industry - a very wealthy and powerful industry indeed - and have little or no alternative training. The brain can not be separated from the whole being, nor from modern society's effects on sensitive individuals. The mental health's stigma only serves to isolate sufferers and their families further, prolonging symptoms. Teachers, educators, the general public, traditional medical professionals, psychologists and psychiatrists need to be re-educated in preventative methods and in effective alternative treatments, so sufferers and their families are supported and guided towards cure, rather than a possible dependency on dangerous medical drugs and a life sentence of shame behind invisible bars. Our societey's shame, that is... Governments reflect the people (the majority) they represent. It's no wonder cricket and sports get higher funding than mental health!! Let's endeavour to educate and empower ourselves so that we can take responsibility for our health and that of our families. Only THEN can we demand and expect more funding, support and available information on preventative and natural alternative treatments that are affordable, effective and accessible to all.
cazbug
April 22nd, 2010
exactly !the only time i have seen my daughter well in the last 8 years was while taking vitamins made up for her by compounding pharmacy while on the pfeiffer program,unfortunately the only place that has anysort of treatment like this in a safe hospital environment is in america at a huge cost...Earth House or costa rica, shangrila. we need to get something like that set up in australia.psych drugs and the present hospital system do NOT work.
Concerned
April 22nd, 2010
So many are applauding the extra funding for Mental Health. My concern is how and where this money will be spent. Will many more youths be subjected to harmful pychotropic drugs? This does not address the source of the problem and drug "treatment" for mental illness can often worsen the condition and cause serious side effects and even suicide. Using drug treatment for prevention is seriously flawed. Will Big Pharma and their investors and allies gain the most benefit?
schitzoziris
April 22nd, 2010
My experience is the public health system in Victoria rely on GPs training at Public Psychiatric Hospitals to do initial examination / consultation of first time admissions, where a Specialist Psychiatrist would need about two years of observation to be able to correctly diagnose. I was mis-diagnosed a Paranoid Schizophrrenic after 30 minutes, and placed on anti-psychotics, which I shortly after tried to suicide with. At another public mental health clinic years later another GP trainning to specialise prescibed in combination anti-psychotics and anti-depressants, yet MIMIs clearly indicates that combining the two can cause psychosis, which it did with me. After years of suffering the side effects of drugs, I eventualy have my diagnosis changed to post traumatic stress and am off all medications, and haven't had the need to be hospitalised; and the only "trouble" I have got in is with politicians and police , by posting their letters and court documents on Facebook... Expose the failings in the system and politicians ignorance, prejudice, and neglect of the entire health sector !! In 1998, because of the side effects of the drugs, I should have not been placed on, I got carted to a psych ward 60KM away from where I live, in the back of a Police van. They played games rolling me around the back. They broke my neck !!
Polly and Sybil
April 22nd, 2010
Congratulations,GetUp.....
It's a wonderful beginning...Let's keep working for the 'jump in' and hopefully make that big splash!!!!
cazbug
April 22nd, 2010
Drugs are not the answer to mental health!proper nutrition and therapy and safe loving environment are.Psych drugs have one of the worst group of serious side effects and psych wards and the so called treatment they give cause serious long term damage .patrick mc gorry is pushing these drugs. please do not support him and his push to put even more money into the hands of the drug companies.
Gwen
April 22nd, 2010
Mental Health needs support. The treatment so far is one size fits all. There needs to be more research in handling cases one by one and community support for these people coming out of respite or hospital situations. Small jobs could be allocated to people in hospitals and they would feel more useful than the sort of 'basket weaving' programs now is hospital systems. Good on Getup for your good work. Gwen
Judy
April 22nd, 2010
Gwen, I agree, but many hospitals do not even have "basket weaving" programs or any programs. Scrabble and a ping-pong table is not enough to stop the meaningless pacing.
Foucault
April 22nd, 2010
Medical intervention by Patrick McGorry means prescribing NEUROLEPTICS ( nerve debilitating drugs called anti-psychotics) GETUP...YOU'VE been had by McGorry. Perhaps you should be asking what ties McGorry has with the Big PharMa Companies? Lets establish who elected McGorry Australian of the Year? GETUP...you've lost the plot!!!! Shame! Shame! Shame!!!
Foucault
April 22nd, 2010
Aaargh...You echo my sentiments... Getup...DO THE RESEARCH. What is McGorry's ties with Big PharMa? Who elected him Australian of the Year? What happened to conflict of interests? GetUp....you got this one wrong...and time will prove you wrong...
Dr. Cathy Kezelman
April 22nd, 2010
Great to see some funds and focus on mental health.
However the mental health repercussions of trauma are still not on the agenda. This includes the more than 2 million Australian adults who experienced some form of abuse/neglect in childhood, those subject to/witnessing domestic violence, refugees, and survivors of war or civil unrest.
Trauma survivors often have severe and persistent mental health and/or substance abuse problems and are frequently the highest users of the inpatient, crisis, and residential services. • 76% of adults reporting child physical abuse and neglect experience at least one psychiatric disorder in their lifetime and nearly 50% have three or more psychiatric disorders.
• Adult survivors are 3-5 times more likely to experience a major depressive episode during their life.
• Adult survivors of child abuse are at markedly increased risk of abusing substances.
• A 2010 Victorian study revealed that people sexually abused as children are more than 18 times likely to commit suicide than the general population.
Although their trauma is often core to their difficulties in Australian mental health care it is seldom identified or addressed. Without addressing the core issues of trauma, these Australians will continue to fall through the gaps and struggle with daily functioning.
There is no provision for trauma-informed care in this country within the mental health system in either policy or funding. If we are to develop a comprehensive model of mental health care it must include addressing the needs of the large cohort of Australian trauma survivors.
April 22nd, 2010
Thank you for this. At 28 I'm now in extensive counselling for the abuse and neglect I experienced growing up. At one stage the police wanted to remove my brother and I from our home but didn't.
My depression has cause me to lose a couple of years of my life because I couldn't function as a human being (I couldn't eat, walk, read, listen to music, work, think etc), and I still struggle to function properly. My brother is a drug addict, and both of us have no conception of what it's like not to be depressed. Both of us avoided counselling because we thought we weren't 'really' ill, because we thought we'd be stigmatised and because we couldn't afford it.
Counselling helps me tremendously, and, I'm very hesitant to medicalise something i know is caused by social factors, but anti-depressants help me too. But I'm spending half of my week's income on counselling and medication.
I have a friend working as a lawyer at legal aid, and the number of child abuse, domestic violence and sexual abuse cases they see would shock the community. Not only is there not enough trauma information or help in Australia, but much of the help suggests medicalising it without dealing with the underlying problems. I'm also worried that funding will be devoted to those with problems associated with brain chemistry or inherited conditions rather than those caused by trauma.
Jenie
April 22nd, 2010
To be honest the government is part of the problem. I believe we should bypass the government if we are serious about improving mental health. Allocating $17.5 million to bloated bureaucrats in Cricket Australia and $13 million to mental health - only mentally ill people would do that. And Cricket Australia will probably not do much with that money to promote cricket among young people at the grassroots level.
For a start we should get all Australian soldiers out of Iraq and Afghanistan because in the years to come they will have significant mental health problems arising from injuries (especially head injuries) and post-traumatic stress disorder, if the experience of US and UK Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans is any guide. Sending more people to fight in wars Australia has no business in is creating problems Australian taxpayers will have to pay for: more refugees with their own traumas, more soldiers with mental health issues, a higher government debt that will translate into less services for Australians.
Delhic Oracle
April 22nd, 2010
I am concerned at the sky rocketing of so many people with mental health disabilities. If our country is supposedly doing so well, why are so many people depressed or have mental health issues? Remember Britain during the war? Psychiatrists nearly went out of business! The question is does a high quality of life add to more mental health problems?
Peta
April 22nd, 2010
That's not what Prof Ian Hickie stated this mornign on ABC Radio National!
Kathleen
April 22nd, 2010
none of this will be any good unless the universities change the way they deliver education. It is impossible to get post graduate training externally - as I psychologist on the move and working in remote areas I have been trying for 20+ yrs and at the moment community psychology - a preventative approach can only be studied at master level in 2 universities - on campus - this is the 21st century when they wake up the support may become more easily available to those in need
The problem with Headspace centres is that govt money is handed to a non govt organisation to run. The Central Coast in NSW has a very good Headspace operating but the recent handover to The Samaritans is a big concern. Make sure the money is spent where it's meant to be spent.
JA
April 25th, 2010
The lead agent of headspace at Mt Druitt is also an NGO, Uniting Care Mental Health. Together with the a co-located (public) youth mental health service, headspace Mt Druitt works well to help young people with a range of problems , including mental heath problems.
emuwimin
April 22nd, 2010
I work in indigenous mental health and a community response is what is needed.
Meg
April 22nd, 2010
This is a great ad! Thanks for bringing mental health reform onto the national agenda in a powerful way.
I am firmly convinced - from personal work experience - that mental health and 'homelessness' are inextricably linked for many people. Could we also add this onto the efforts being made to highlight such a vital area of life.
Thanks so much .... Meg
Belinda Robertson
April 22nd, 2010
Thankyou Getup and all the hard working people behind more funding and fighting for the right of people with mental illness and their families. It is about time a government did something more as the current medical support and careis very limited and spread too thin over millions of people. My brother suffers from a mental illness so this is close to my heart, just like many Australians who are touch my mental illness in one way or another.
April 22nd, 2010
I am horrified with the way we treat our young people with or without mental illness. I have watched my 21 year old work her butt off for crap pay no overtime pay no sick leave no holiday pay while earning $14.60 per hour and $18 after 8pm and her other job is in a groovy bar where she earns flat $23.50 per hour form 11pm up until 5am. And...if they are not busy they send them home or call them on the day and say dont come in. Can soemone tell me how do young people get ahaed on this shit pay. This brings about self esteem isssues form what i observe and I have spoken to many youg people and they are all in the same boat. Eneterprise bargainig or whatever bought in by Howard years I feel in striping our young people of hope for the future, to be independent financially, we are creating a monster in mental health anf no one is considering this. By the way my daughter finished year 12 got in Uni and decide not to go yet and we have said said as long as your working thats fine but she is being exploited for by employers. The other thing is if you are casula you can not get a bank loan try find a rental place with this history. We ended up by a hosue and are now housing her and three of her friends. We are lucky to be able to help them but what about the kids that dont have this financial help... lucky country my arse for the young people of Australia. I think Get Up should od Ads about this. The other thing that really disturbs me is the employers and pollies mnust have young adult children can't they see the damage or is greed making thwm turn a blind eye.
jon
April 22nd, 2010
i am in vast disagreement about this mental health issue - the problem is the backward attitude of psychiatrists
a few hundred years ago, women were burnt as witches; now we destroy young folk's lives with a spurious theory
if GetUp was genuine, you'd look into alternatives
Rob
April 22nd, 2010
I agree Jon - these drugs they're putting our kids on are mostly schedule 2, which is on a par with heroin and cocaine for addictiveness and mind-altering/destroying properties. And we want to fund more millions to push these drugs ?
April 22nd, 2010
While the govrnment just looks at what they believe the problem is they are not addressing the real and hinest problem they are just side swipping the real problem and all health issues need to be addressed as 1 whole issue. I have known a family who have had a problem with a mother who has got bioploar and and the other problem and much of the time they have had to deal with it on their own and have put an child in the firing line of her mother this is not right and children should be protected against this and not put in the firing line as a peace maker and made to try and keep the probelm of the family member who looks after the child. I myself have a problem and it is my eldest son who is mentally unstable at times while i look after his child he he has assulted me and kidnapped his son from my care and has a stand over type of personalitly and is hard to be around and feel safe,i grinche every time i am around him and have to stand on tippy toes wondering if he will do anything. Its hard to feel anything for the government that puts alot of this at people s door step and feel they have the best interest for the people,no i dont think so i dont think they know what is best they dont live in the real world like th people and there fore they cant act for them in their best interest either.
hcp
April 22nd, 2010
A large gap in services for the mentally ill is in employment. There need to be many more dedicated projects to make it easy for people with mental illness to work for a few hours a week in meaningful, paid employment to earn not only money, but self-respect. Many of them have considerable talent and skills, but are unable use them in the normal workplace. This should be addressed immediately.
mareelorraine
April 22nd, 2010
Plese, please, please do something. Mental health issues desperately need attention. More money for on the ground facilities which need to be user friendly. People with mental illness need to know that there is always somewhere they can get help. Not just emergency facilities. When mental illness occurs in families no one seems to know what to do, mental health facilities should be advertised the same ways a doctor's surgery is.
Susan
April 22nd, 2010
More funding, understanding and acknowledgement are needed in this important area. I have been trying to seek help on and off for years for mental health issues. It is disgraceful how the system works. If I had a physical illness I am sure by now I could sue for negligence. Once I even talked my way out of an emergency ward after a substantial self-inflected injury.I am not alone and so much more needs to be done.
Louise
April 22nd, 2010
Thank you Getup, some funding is better than nothing but a long, long way to go.Not only are these MH programs beneficial to the clients but they offer invaluable training for staff who in turn can educate the wider community.All persons have a right to the services provided by the community to which we all belong so why should the most disadvantaged be deprived of necessary programs
April 22nd, 2010
Having access to a wide range of services in Mental Health that focuses on the wholistic needs of the individual is critical in assisting the person in their journey of mental wellness. All too often the emphasis is on clinical while aspects such as social isolation and loneliness are over looked. The quality of a person life is critical to how the person feels about themself and how they connect with others. Social isolation and disconnection have been linked to clinical depression, suicide and a range of other mental health diagnosis. A person with mental health issues requires a whole range of interventions, services and support depending on where they are in their mental health. The government needs to put more money into community based organisations that works with social inclusion for people with mental health issues.
Helen
April 22nd, 2010
I agree with the comments about having access to a wide range of services in Mental Health focusing on wholistic needs including psycho therapy in particular cognitive behaviour theraphy (CBT).
Carmel Markey
April 22nd, 2010
Indeed this is a terrific achievement for Getup. I would also like to flag an area of great need within the general area of Mental Health and that is mental health services for people who are deaf or hard of hearing. The level of mental health difficulties for these people is three times the level of the general population and the availability of services for these people is almost nil. A good place to start is with students who are deaf or hard of hearing because it is possible to identify some mental health issues developing then. The Third Congress on Mental health and Deafness was held in Brisbane last year and closed by Bill Shorten who had some reassuring comments to make about this issue. The need is beyond urgent and needs to be kept under the decision makers noses.
April 22nd, 2010
Whilst mental health law reform is urgently needed in Australia, unfortunately Get Up has chosen to support it in such a way that it goes against the spirit of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities. The type of mental health law reform that get up has put its support behind is an interventionist approach that will abuse the basic rights of many people in particular young people who will get caught up in drug interventions that are supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Why has get up chosen to be involved in furthering the profits of drug companies? Why has it not got behind law reform that has as its basis basic human rights for people with psycho social disabilities?
Robert Kamaralli
April 22nd, 2010
How come with every million we taxpayers give these mental health people, the amount of mental illness is INCREASING ? When I pay someone money, I want to see an improvement, but the funding is making things worse by their own stats! And now we've given them another $103 ***MILLION*** ?
April 22nd, 2010
Doing a great job.....keep up the great work
April 22nd, 2010
One of the outcomes of the health agreement hammered out in Canberra this week was the funding of services to 20,000 young people experiencing mental health problems. While this is long overdue it is not sufficient to assist those people who have experienced the same issues for a long time, without sufficient support from community based services, because there just aren’t enough of them.
Eva
April 22nd, 2010
I am so overcome with the response we have acheived for the mentally ill. I want to continue to be part of this very urgent reform. My family and myself have lost their father and their brother to suicide. I believe it is the worst kind of death to grieve. My troubles don't stop as some more of my children suffer traits which may require the necessary reforms to save their lives. You have given me reason to go on ....to work in this area. I have had many years experience, self taught, hands on with much heartache. I cannot thank you enough. Keep the government conscious of the needs, especially supportive accomodation for the vulnerable in our community. I know what my son needed, he asked for it, knew he needed it, "a place of safety." More teaching doctors and nurses about personality disorders too. They fall through the cracks, no medication. My son had the "cluster bs" and schizoeffective. Shocking diagnosis. Very talented man.
cazbug
April 24th, 2010
my daughter has similar... many diagnosis. check out' Shangri la bio spa and green mental health centre' in costa rica. they have 100% success rate with people with severe long term mental illness . also Earth house near new york. Bio balance has good info about doctors in australia who do this testing. maybe worth it for your other children.
anon
April 22nd, 2010
I'm not sure how the funding will work, but there needs to be funding devoted to depression. Depressed people kill themselves (I lost two friends this year), and are not necessarily psychotic. I'm not sure whether they qualify as being 'severely mentally ill'. Depressed people don't have to kill themselves to lose their lives. Many depressed people cannot work, cannot enjoy socialising, and lose much of who they are, or severely compromise it.
Depression is often treated with talk-therapy and/or anti-depressants. Both are extremely expensive in Australia, and even the insured usually only get a quota of therapy sessions. This means that many who struggle to function on a day-to-day basis cannot afford to treat themselves. This may seem like a minor concern compared with those suffering from severe mental illnesses, but depression is misunderstood, stigmatised, and insufficiently dealt with in the community. People need more affordable care.
Chantni
April 22nd, 2010
The causes of Mental Health Issues need to be understood for any program to be successful. In my experience it is usually 'emotional illness' due to traumas/abuse that adversely affect the mind. Only with proper therapy (Psycho therapy, Psychodrama etc.) can there be any real healing for the suferrer. Drugs should only be used in acute situations where the person can do harm to him/herself and others. They will never cure the person and often can cause more problems, especially anti-depressants which are responsible for many suicides. Unfortunately the Medical Profession, drug companies and the government are 'in bed together' and the policies are 'business as usual'. With all the modern stesses we have now and the global crisis we are gpoing to see many more people 'lose the plot'. Throwing more money at a problem is not necessarily a solution.
April 22nd, 2010
I suffer from severe depression. I hate medication. I hate the idea of potentially being on medication for the rest of my life. The idea of supporting drug companies or the medicalisation of social problems makes me sick. But medication helps me to continue to exist. Within a couple of months of taking medication I started to be able to function, just a little. It's no cure by any means, but it helps me and it helps my counselling to help me. It's helping me to start living again. I know it doesn't work for everyone, and I refused to take it for the first year of therapy despite both my doctor and counsellor recommending it. I wanted to just do counselling because I knew abuse caused me depression. But after a year of therapy I was still suicidal and worsening.
For some of us, medication helps, even when we're not suicidal.
April 22nd, 2010
i agree. medication helps but it makes you sick :S
try nutrition for a long term solution - ask around for supplements and lots of yummy vege recipes!
i know its hard when your depressed to look into these options, and i know they can be expensive.
think of the investment into your health. the abililty to get passed the depression and be full of life again (eventually, but much better chance than with the medication alone)
more info? Making A Killing on youtube (first and last chapters sum it up) and credence.org
Benny Zable
April 22nd, 2010
Mental health will become more of an issue as the planetary resource become scarecer and climate change kicks in seriously.
April 22nd, 2010
Keep up the good work Benny! The earth needs you!
Donald Oats
April 22nd, 2010
Mental illness is a highly disruptive life event. At the very time when intervention may prevent serious consequences (loss of job, break up, homelessness, suicide), the mentally ill are often incapable of organising the necessary steps to access the specialist medical aid that they require. Severe depression is a classic example. There should be a mechanism by which the health system can provide temporary "administrative care" to those that are too sick to do it themselves. That alone would ensure that many more people get the appropriate medical aid available in a more timely fashion.
In the short term though, the current bill needs to be passed by a hostile senate. If amendments are forced upon the Rudd government, the state premiers may renege if they feel that their necessary criteria are no longer met by the amended bill. Steve Fielding and Nick Xenaphon and the Greens need to be convinced that the bill should pass in unamended form precisely to avoid disbandment by the states.
Mel Pav
April 22nd, 2010
Congratulations on achievements so far. It is inspiring to see people power in action. In SA, mental health services for young people are so lacking that the only real response is once they have attempted suicide! Lets get with whats happenning out there and put the fence and mattress at the top of the cliff instead of at the bottom!What about even teaching coping skills and recognizing anxiety issues and other mental health issues in all schools instead of hoping the student will leave once they have major problems. We could even have actual counsellors properly funded in schools and calm the horse before it has bolted!
John of Scarborough
April 22nd, 2010
Disturbing reports today that Senator Fielding and the opposition will oppose the health reforms - Lets tell the NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - They still dont get it. Many Many more years in opposition.
Caru Luan.
April 22nd, 2010
IT IS LOT OF TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AT THE MOMENT. WHAT HAPPEN WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THEIR FAMILIES? NOONE HAS MENTIONED, BECAUSE DISABLE PEOPLE CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES AND THIR FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING TO COPE. WHAT ABOUT OLDER PEOPLE AND LOW INCAME FAMILIES THAT ARE DEPRAVING THEMSELVES OF FOOD, CLOTHES AND WELL EARN ENTERTAINMENT TO PAY BILS,RENTS AND MORGAGES? THE HEALTH ISSUE HAVE TO COVER ALL AREAS WITHOUT EXCLUSIONS TO BE ABLE TO WORK FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS, NO JUST SOME.
Kitsia
April 22nd, 2010
It is not enough to just fix the hospital system as many young people go back to being supported by their parents because they can not work. Most are put on unemployment benefits rather than on a disability pension. They also do not get any help with rent assistance. This then becomes a hidden problem as the parents are footing the bill. Most mental health patients are outpatients, that go back to live at home with parents. We parents need financial support especially if we have retired, or at least give the mental health patient a disability pension and rent assistance, so that they can have some dignity and independence.
Jazzy
April 22nd, 2010
Congrats Getup, a great campaign. But why are we so sick? What's the matter with our society that there is such need for more mental health care for young people, more hospital beds... it's very sad that it gets to this point.
Shirley
April 22nd, 2010
50 years ago I was fortunte to be treated by a private psychiatrist. 20 years ago another psychiatrist diagnosed that I had bi-polar disorder. Since then I have regularly taken prescribed medication, and I will do so for the rest of my life. Living is wonderful when mental illness is properly treated. Please help to give all troubled youth lives worth living.
everyman
April 22nd, 2010
after giving a brief 15 minute description of what was occurring in my life a phyciartrist informed me that my illness would get progressively worse and I would be dead in ten years that was twelve years ago. unfortunetley our insular western consumer culture has not the breadth of experience to interpret and understand human nature in crisis goodluck mcgorry
Jenny
April 22nd, 2010
I was so pleased that Patrick has become the Australian of the Year. The disgraceful neglect of people with mental ill health is shameful. The people who do get to a doctor with their problems are so often fobbed off with only medication which can exacerbate symptoms. An wholstic approach supported and financed by the government is essential. I'm pleased this is a major Get Up initiative. It's time to bring mental health out of the dark.
Elroy
April 22nd, 2010
Mental health is hugely underfunded and somehow always a minor political issue. Yet when it manages to get on the agenda again, there's unanimous agreement from politicians and community alike that we need to make a stronger committment. Both the bed-based system and community based support and grossly underfunded. Australia's percentage of GDP allocated to mental health is well below OECD countries. Somehow in all this, we have to get the community to realise that higher taxes would equal greater services for all, including mental health services. Australians need to demand better services and be prepared to expect higher taxes to fund them.
Wendy
April 22nd, 2010
hardly a family is left untouched by mennal illlness of some kind. My brother was an alcoholic and died young. My cousin had schizophrenia and committed suicide leaving a young family.
My former husband had schizophrenia and it spilt up the fmialy.. My dad and myself suffered from depression and sought treatment. I urge the government to address the mental healh problems of the nation. As well as that, I have a granddaughter with Asperger's syndrome and her brother with mild austim and another grandson with dislexia.
So you see, we are a family in need.
I am coming out on top of it now due do good treatment drugs etc. What a waste of resources and waste of talented people these conditions cause and what a loss to Australia, not to mention the financial cost.
Best wishes. W.
April 22nd, 2010
Wendy, thanks for sharing.
It touches my heart because there are many families in these circumstances.
I am grateful that you have found resolve in good treatment drugs.
Now that your mental health is stable, have you thought of getting a second opinion with boosting your nutrition (supplements and veges)? If your doctor or psychiatrist think this won't help have a look at Foodmatters. (google the dvd info)
credence.org and Making A Killing are other sources of info.
It angers me that science has known about effective cures for years and yet medical schools and uni's ignore it cause of the push from drug companies.
I worked in mental health for years, and now I work in the Wellness Industry. Now I see health changing people's lives
and family's lives like yours Wendy :)
inmyhead
April 22nd, 2010
There are issues affecting society, no doubt! The question is about the the solution to these issues. If kids and teenagers are suffering from 'mental health' then what's next... unborn babies... oh wait I forgot , that's already being done! And is there a solution ? Once you on anti- depressants do you ever get off, is there ever an end. We are killing our Kids , our youth and anyone we can get our hands on. So it's all good to say how bad things are when people are faced with real problems everyday. Chemicals( drugs) being fed into a body does not respond well to it in the long run.
An holistic approach is somewhat of an answer, real care is another option. Proper nutrition and diet is essential. E Exercise alone will improve at least 22% of people who suffer depression without the need for drugs. There are a lot of other answers that are cost effective without drugs, you only need to look.
We take the easy route, the 'quick' cure. We know that its only for show.
jude
April 22nd, 2010
Let's not forget....mental health is not all about clinical support - that's important. But so is non-clinical support. Help to get on with your life, to recover, to access work, accommodation, friends....ordinary stuff.
Christine
April 22nd, 2010
I've just returned (1000 km round trip) from another hospital requested "family/case conference". It's taken 4.5 months this time to get my 25 year old daughter well enough to begin considering discharge. The upshot of this meeting with 6 professional mental health staff comprising consulting psychiatrist, registrar, social worker, 2 case managers and an OT was that there is nothing that can be implemented legally to prevent someone that suffers from a mental illness and has shown a lack of judgement and control over a 10 year period from returning to the person and environment of her choice regardless of how detrimental it is to their wellbeing. So once again the benefits from the the resources used in her prolonged hospitalisation will be negated when she exercises her "rights". When are the individual needs of each and every mentally unwell person going to be met? I agree realistic funding is imperative but also reform is long overdue of the system that is failing so many.
April 22nd, 2010
Christine, I commend you for your fight.
google Making A Killing (free on youtube)
it has a chapter on informed consent.
the medical profession (sickness industry) is made up of greedy drug pushes and innocent graduates that mean well.
It is a long road for those who have already been affected so deeply, but your road to recovery can be won because you have started the journey :)
love and god bless a ex-mental health professional now working in the Wellness Industry.
???
April 22nd, 2010
??????????`???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????”????????????s" and what are the statistics over the years? I think that it will tell the hidden story here.
April 22nd, 2010
Asylum.n. Refuge or sanctuary.
WulagiGran
April 22nd, 2010
Keep going - mental health deserves better, I am sure Howard ran it down but people out there are desperate and it affects all society and all levels of society
I have recently conducted a 6 week How to Tell Your Story - a public speaking exercise for NT Carer's for people with a mental health issue or their carers, so some of these wonderful people can now give a 20 minute speech to organisations who will listen, and their sad stories will make you cry
April 22nd, 2010
Well done GetUp again and well done all of us. Yet again this response restores my faith in the last true democratic medium, the internet. Lets keep it free and uncensored and use it for good. The last line of GetUp's follow up letter for this campaign says it all: "When we work together we can hold our leaders to account and achieve real change." The power is still with the people. All we need to do is believe it and use it effectively. In the immortal words of Public Enemy......Fight the Power !
Eva
April 22nd, 2010
I need to tell a story on behalf of my 39 year old son. He is dead now, just 15 months ago. He lived in a world of paranoia, fear, self harm which included jumping from a bridge and breaking his back and sternum just 12mths before he died. All his mental chaos began when he was in his early to late teens. His life, many talents, and what he could have been taken from him. The hospital in our town let him down, especially in the last few days of his life. All I want now is to find out why he was not helped, no one will help me at all. The emergency department did not help him . They put approx. 15 stitches in a slashed wrist and let him go, why? He injured his forehead by banging it on a hard floor and returned to the hospital several times and was never given asylum. Let go to hang himself. I loved him. Is it so wrong for me to be an emotional mess. Mr. Rudd, if this was your son, wouldn't you see to it that this would never happen again. I am very angry.
Eva.
April 22nd, 2010
Dearest Eva, I can feel your pain - thank you so much for your courage to tell your story.
The sickness industry is made up of greedy drug pushers and innocent graduates who mean well but have been misinformed.
You can make a difference by sharing your story.
the documentary Making A Killing makes me angry because I have seen so many families broken over psychotropic drugging. I now work in the wellness industry.
you can watch the whole doco on youtube.
For your safety and sanity, I ask that you watch it with a supportive friend, and then begin to share your story at mental health support groups such as GROW and ARAFMI
love and god bless.
Jack
April 22nd, 2010
Your comment Please, please, please....Wake up and see that we don't need too much attention on Mental Health Centres, as much as we need Nutritional Centres, which would solve 95% of the problems we are really facing in today's world. Looking for the quick fix pill is just making Pharma rich and slowly kill off our brothers an sisters.
Our schools could help by educating our children all about nutrition rather than sex and how to be stuck in computers rather than how to live life.
Eva
April 22nd, 2010
Question and answers time Friday 23rd. April on "Sunrise."
Mr. Rudd will be in my town.I would like to go ask him some things. Don't know if I will be well enough anyway. 7am is a bit early for me a burned out unpayed carer for 20 years and now 70years old.
Maybe someone else could get to Southern Cross and get Kevin 007 to open his eyes a bit wider.
DD
April 23rd, 2010
I'd like to make a suggestion to Eva - a person who had great courage in speaking out on this line.
I think you should speak to someone at one of the cost free legal referral agencies in your state who may be able to suggest where you can get some guidance in seeking answers. In the alternative it might even be helpful to see the chamber magistrate at your local court and see if he or she has any suggestions as to how to proceed
As I am sure you realise the mechanisms are there but accessing them is often the problem. What one needs to do is patiently and methodically find a starting point.
I have great sympathy for your feelings - we often forget that our carers sometimes need a little care themselves - they give and share so very much of themselves, often at the cost of great personal pain. Wonderful people. Be gentle on yourself and seek some assistance in your quest. Frequently making an approach through a third party can be more successful - it takes away the strange fear some people in authority have of helping.
Kindest regards
DD
Les
April 22nd, 2010
There's another side to this debate that I'm sure may not be received very well, but it is happening. There is too much pressure being put on children in certain non-selective state shools to perform at standards that they are not capable of achieving - this perceived 'failure' can result in a depressive behaviour response that can spiral into destructive behaviour and negative self-esteem. The education department provides counsellors who I feel sometimes have a conflict of interest as regards their duty to the welfare of the student or the school that employs them. I say conflict of duty because a counsellor I spoke to confirmed that they advised parents as to the 'unsuitability' of an 'underperforming' child at the end of year ten - in order that the parents might find somewhere else to take them. Remember, I am talking about a non-selective state school. My understanding is that they are there to provide an education to all children, excepting severe disability. It seems that some schools do not provide our children with a commitment to assisting them with their special needs. These counsellors can refer children on to services that are entirely inappropriate for that childs treatment. For example, a child with an undiagnosed cognitive or learning disorder, that manifests as depressive behaviour due to the childs inability to 'meet the standard', is referred to a service that specifically deals in family therapy. Had the necessary aptitude/cognitive tests been given to the child, the school may have provided them with a more appropriate referral that would be more helpful. This is a sloppy and dangerous mistake that may be costing lives. I look forward to an open debate about these issues in our evolving understanding of young peoples mental health.
Les
cures
April 23rd, 2010
Reply to Claire - Matching Pegs. It is indeed frustrating to standby and see a loved one suffer from a barely treated but very unwanted mental condition. I have been involved in helping people suffering from mental problems over many years. I found that the mental health system is quite one-sided. The major means of treatment now is giving various kinds of drugs. They are by actual test and result can at best relieve the particular condition in the main, but at worst cause damage or even death. [a friend of mine’s 19 year old son was put on risperdal, a strong anti-psychotic drug, to treat his bad reaction to trying a potent type of marihuana. For a while it seemed to calm him down at first, even though his mother had misgivings. She was devastated shortly after to find him dead in her swimming pool. ] What people don’t know is that a number of psychiatrists and doctors have made studies of how undetected medical conditions can cause mental problems. Schizophrenia for example can be brought about by at least 29 medical etc conditions. I invite you to check out this link: http://alternativementalhealth.com/articles/causesofschizophrenia.htm
Isn’t better to actually get to the source of mental disturbances and hence cure the person for real rather than put him or her on a long lasting, often addictive drug which only partially addresses the actual problem?
April 23rd, 2010
Whilst I'm pleased $116M was secured for mental health, as I guess it's better than nothing. I'm appalled at the paltry sum, when for days all I heard was Mr Rudd throwing huge sums at the states as an enticement to go along with his health plan.
I can imagine that if mental health was on the same social conscience as Cancer than the funding would have been triple the amount.
Looking for blessings, I guess I should be grateful that the government had at least appointed Prof. Patrick McGorry as Australian of the Year. It was one of their better decisions.
Mary
Sunset Dreamer
April 23rd, 2010
Funding for beds and nurses is one step forward. Another would be funding support organisations such as ASCA Adult Survivors of Child Abuse. As a survivor and someone married to a survivor, getting through the day is an achievement at times. Too many do not survive the isolation and anguish of feeling tainted. Families are destroyed and people end up on the street or in prison through trying to blot out the pain or the rage.
Isdat So
April 24th, 2010
I have grave doubt about this mental health bill and program. Money pured into this case does not handle mental health problem but ceates it. More money- more mentally ill people. I wonder when will it hit 99.99 %, 0.01% being the mental health practicioners. What will it do ? Increase the drug companies bare faced lies and profits by hooking kids on drugs - life long? Camouflage the educational lapses of our country? Label kids? Create a drug addict population who cannot work, cannot be relied on and who themselves hate the "cure" they are forced to have? I challange the statistics re the cause of death, would like to see the exact source, method of data colletcion, sample sizes, quality assurance program etc, Just does not look right!
Joan Birdie
April 24th, 2010
Hello
Thanks for the emails. I notice that there is a lot of reference to Youth Mental Health and also intervention.
My concern is for the people over 24yrs especially those who have come under the Justice System. Very often people with a mental illness self medicate with drugs and there is very little support for them and their families.
Victoria has a system called Non Custodial Orders which includes ongoing support. Unfortunately NSW doesn't have a system such as this.
Regards to all. Joan Birdie
Andrew Sarchus
April 24th, 2010
This is one campaign I am not sure I can go along with... as I don't have any time for modern psychiatry or its idea of what constitutes 'insanity.' That is, I regard true insanity as thinking all is well and under control by the 'experts' and that resources are infinite and everything is going to get better and faster. True sanity I see as being utterly appalled at the way things are going. It is normal in my eyes to freak out at the world as it is today, and taking a little pill offered by a psychiatrist cannot possibly make things any better. It might make me forget what was worrying me... but it cannot fix the root cause of the problem. For that matter, remaining fully conscious of the madness of the world is vital to be able to do anything to change it. Another way of saying this would be that it is the world which has gone mad... not me!
arno
April 24th, 2010
I hear what you are saying but you are naive in your definitions of sanity and insanity.If normality is described as "freaking out at the world today" and it is desirable to remain "fully conscious of the madness of the world today" I seriously doubt your ability to remain sane. By the way "insane' people are often capable of a range of "normal" behaviours and vice versa and they are not described by their world view.
Reg Gilroy
April 25th, 2010
I'm all for Mental Health reform. Especially effective help without the need for psychotropic drugs, as I've seen these cause more damage than the symptoms they're trying to cure.
Scientology hardly itself being a "haven of sanity" an anti-psychiatric front group closely attached to the Church of Scientology is not the place I would be looking for sensible advice. CCHR is such a group - as you well know, Reg
It is a sad feature of the modern world that religions and cults target the mentally, physically, and psychologically vulnerable. For all the faults of the medical profession it is better to be selective and reforming of that profession than to seek outside for help and guidance in serious matters of mental and physical health
A good psychiatrist will gladly refer a patient to suitable support groups. A good psychiatrist is best found through recommendation by a qualified doctor that you trust or by an existing satisfied patient or patient's family
If you find you do not get on with the specialist concerned get a different one. It really is not that hard.
Mental health services desperately need improvement - but not of the kind that a mind cult would suggest.
Aaron
April 25th, 2010
It is unbelievable that people can be convinced that ordinary conditions are "Mental Illnesses". 100 years ago there was scarcely a mention of such things (curiously, there were hardly any people making lots of money from selling "medications" for these "illnesses" either) and people managed to live just fine. Every year a new "disorder" is "discovered", with no scientific evidence to actually back it up. "Disorders" like 'Tax Avoidance Syndrome' (Seriously! If you don't like paying taxes, you are MENTALLY ILL). Homosexuality was VOTED IN as a mental illness, and then removed as a lot of the psychiatrists & psychologists were homosexual. This proves that an everyday behaviour/way of life can suddenly become a "Disorder" if it is convenient and lucrative for the right people. What people with "Mental Illness" need is care and genuine help to get through it. If someone is depressed, they do not need drugs (often with suicidal side-effects), they need comfort and understanding, and stress free enjoyable activities to take their focus off the depressing issue and onto the good things in life. But then nobody makes $$$$$$ off them... What we need is more people who genuinely care for their fellow man and less corrupt doctors, politicians and Pharmaceutical companies all sleeping in the same bed trying to make a buck off the innocent person by labelling them with some made-up "disease" when they are simply going through a tough time in their life.
TooHard for the system
April 30th, 2010
Aaron
As DD says - your comments here are in fact deadly. My son was turned away by the system - mostly because they said that he was having difficulty dealing with his poor relationship with his father - because he was just having a 'tough time' in his life.
After 5 years of problems and constant depression - and not a lot of drugs (because he didn't like them and preferred to self-medicate on illicit drugs and alcohol)... he suicided.
Be careful what you say - clearly you are NOT a qualified person or a consumer of mental health services, and I doubt that you have ever watched a love one struggle with their mental torment and not been able to help them.
DD
April 25th, 2010
What you say here would be fatal for some people, Aaron. You are advocating that mentally ill people stop taking their medication because of some imaginary selfish plot hatched by a combination of "doctors, politicians, and Pharmaceutical companies".
Errors in medicine are generally individual errors and they do occur - that is why selecting your medical professionals is so important. Your tirade against doctors seems based on wrongful assertions, such as the suggestion that the medical profession has created a category called "Tax Avoidance Syndrome" or that the medical profession took a vote on homosexuality to "decide" if it was a mental illness. In fact it is psychiatry that has been at the forefront of recognising sexual preference divergence as normal.
Fot all its faults psychiatry and medically qualified psychology have been at the forefront of progress. Many psychoanalysts bravely fought an intellectual battle against the rise of Nazism, for example, warning of its dangers. Often we suffer because socially we lag behind their findings about how the brain works and what constitutes consciousness and self consciousness
The world is suffering from a modern backlash against the Enlightenment - a dangerous antiscientific attitude is being created and nurtured by an irresponsible media and by religions such as Catholicism and traditional Islam battling against the need to reform. It is an artificially and media sponsored attempt to create a new mass neurosis
Don't let such people feed your paranoia. Never turn your back on the modern world by mentally retreating into an imagined pre-scientific Golden Age. Go back to sources yourself for information
If we do not then the gains of democracy and the Enlightenment may be lost and we may descend into a new superstitious dark age
The call to expand and develop mental health services is not a repressive plot - quite the contrary - Its aim is to free a multitude of people from illness that troubles them - to relieve suffering. It is the noblest of causes
April 25th, 2010
it is great that the power of many can change the minds of a few. I now ask that we look at dual diagnosis and begin educating everyone that mental illness is only part of the problem.
greg
April 25th, 2010
Mental health seems to be something easily disregarded. Perhaps because it is not always in public view.I have first hand experience of being in a relationship with a mentally ill person and feel despair at the lack of attention given to it in the current discussions. My experience shows it's effects to be devastating and far reaching and I'm appalled, disappointed and disgusted at the arrogant, neglectful and paternalistic attitude that appears to be driving a debate that should show much more respect to the people and their families that have and are suffering because of this neglected sector of health-care in this country. I also need to add that a city-centric view on improvements treats regional Australians like second class citizens. I live in Gippsland and while I have have always had good experiences with the physical health facilities and access here I am shocked at the ill provision of acute care in particular and ongoing care as well for people with a chronic condition. Poor mental health does more than just make you sad, it affects every aspect of your life.
Amanda
April 26th, 2010
It's not as easy to reach out and touch mental ill health in the way that we can reach out and touch physical ill health, but government support for both is equally important. There are devastating consequences for ignoring issues of mental ill health, as the suicide of a beautiful 23yr old friend has testified in my life.
Awareness, intervention and support are essential components of any reform and the government must responsibly provide equitable access to quality care for those suffering physical or mental ill health.
JULIA WILLIAM
April 26th, 2010
I DONT BELIEVED IN DRUGGING CHILDREN , ADULTS, ELDERLY PEOPLE WITH DRUGS. THIS IS DANGEROUS. HOW CAN YOU DRUG SOMEONE WHEN THEY ARE STRESS, YOU TALK TO THE PERSON AND FIND OUT WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM. COMMUNICATION CAN RESOLVED ALOT OF SITUATION.
CHILDREN HAS BEEN EATING TOO MANY SUGAR,LOOK AT THE FOOD WE ARE EATING , TOO MANY PERSERVATIVE/CHEMICAL. NOW YOU WANT TO DRUG US AGAIN ON TOP OF THOSE DANGEROUS CHEMICAL WE ALREADY HAVE IN OUR BODY.
THINK ABOUT IT.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS JUST AN EASY WAY, DRUG THE COMMUNITY= $ BIG DOLLARS.
DO YOU THINK IS THIS FAIR AND ETHICAL ?
jack
May 21st, 2010
You are so right, as from our experience with our 13 year old on her 3rd attempt, drugs cause big problems from our past experience, her father said NO and it worked. Anyway the learned people don't know everything 70 year old grandfather
DD
May 22nd, 2010
As a father with a child diagnosed as having ADD I am very sympathetic to all sides in arguments relating to the use of drugs with children
We resisted using drugs of the Ritalin group until our child was about fifteen. But it was not easy.
Bringing up our child was extremely rewarding and great fun but it required enormous effort at times to deal with the constant lateral thinking and impulsiveness and lack of focus. We allowed the use of drugs under very tight supervision and I do believe that we made the right decision and possibly should have allowed such intervention a little earlier
We got them through excellent schooling and university and are very proud of them and their personality.
But I also allow a little self pride for my wife and myself for what with excellent guidance we were able to do. It can be done!
deborah
April 26th, 2010
Some of the money needs to be allocated for housing people with mental illness in supported accomodation with people who live there on a day to day basis and help people with mental health with living skills, life skills, self esteem ,counselling. There isnt anywhere that I know of that exists . It isnt just about funding for Mental Health Nurses, it needs to be spent on Support Workers. My son has mental illness, he lives in supported accomodation (supposedly) where is lucky to see a support worker twice a week for two hours, he is responisble for his own cooking, cleaning, personal hygiene ,shopping, etc.,and forgetting himself around. These are just basic things, none of which he gets any assistance with, and he is currently being told he may have to move out, because he is not moving forward with his life, the other alternate accomodation is boarding houses, where they provide three meals a day and nothing else and this would take his whole pension. There isnt anything out there for them. I live on the Gold Coast....I remember going to a meeting where they were talking about funding and saying that there were going to be more beds, and more money for psychiatrists, etc. there are already plenty of rich psychiatrists, most of the ones I have met are the most arrogant people I have ever met in my life, they cetainly dont need any more money, there needs to be money spent on educating people about the wholistic side of mental health treatment, its not just about Mental Health nurses and drugs, and psyhiatrists and mental health beds.Its about mentors , support workers , housing, counselling, nutrition. Im starting to go on a bit now. Thank you to all the people responsible. This is the first email, i have received about mental health and usually receive get up emails, I didnt realise this was going on.
eva
April 26th, 2010
Until one has put 24 hours 7 days a week into watching over and caring for a disturbed person, they will never know or do anything to change the way that society accepts it. What a lonely life for the carer and the sufferer. I have 20 years knowledge of the heartbreak of wtching a loved one slowly die inside, show outwardly his confusion, anger and frustration. I was told by a professional once that these people should be treated like "kindly strangers". Would we be happy with that? I believe with all my heart that their hearts are broken by lack of understanding and rejection. I was asked by a boy who had jumped from a tall window and ruined both his feet causing him to have to walk on crutches the rest of his life. He asked me if I would be his mum. He only had the people at the drop in centre as his friends and my son who had brought him to our place. I declined the request as I was earing a dollar and taking care of my son. The next day he was found shot at the town swimming pool. When families cannot cope and the sufferers either leave or are put out in units, where they rarely survive. They want to but cannot always do it very well. Support is vital for people with mental ill health and personality disorders. I would sincerely ask that support be as close to the top of the list as possible. That is a very complex issue.
April 26th, 2010
eva, it is a very complex issue because of the mixed messages we get. There is sooooooooooooooo much info to sort through to find out what is true.
it is comforting that so many people on this blog are realising the alternatives to drug therapy.
in a nutshell - nutrition, supplements, and a bit of meditation work wonders, but to get started we usually need someone to talk to - a natural therapist who knows what they are talking about :P
DD
April 27th, 2010
To substitute a "natural therapist" for a medically qualified psychiatrist is dangerous and potentially fatal. No business is more fraught with charlatanism and just plain fraud than many involving so called "natural therapies". Some are little more than a romantic return to primitive superstition and faith healing.
In my experience a non medically qualified nutritionist consulted in a medical matter, and operating without direct medical supervision in the area of illness, can be a danger to the patient. Operating within a qualified medical framework the same nutritionist can however be very helpful - but their activities, where actual illness is involved, should always be medically monitored
That said however the role of nutrition in mental and physical illness cannot be overemphasised. I believe most mentally ill patients should be very closely nutritionally screened - especially for allergies and sensitivities and for malabsorption of vitamins and minerals
Too few psychiatrists pay attention to this area to the point that sometimes they deride such approaches. There is a need for many patients to seek the help of psychiatrists who are competent in this vital area and prepared at the very least to carry out the necessary tests and refer patients to specialist nutritionists etc
Mental health is expensive. It is very rarely merely a question of talk therapy. The severity or unmanageability of mental illness is too often caused by rectifiable factors
On the question of accommodation, the disastrous lack of suitable housing for sick people is but a poignant reflection of the disastrous state of available accommodation generally. We need millions of more places for people to live. All talk of the desirability of a larger population is insidious nonsense unless this colossal problem of rental and readily purchasable accommodation is solved.
Chronically bad accommodation is part of what is making people ill - both physically and mentally. We need decent accommodation in good quality areas with proper infrastructure - not a system whereby the rich live well and the underclass are forced to live like pigs or battery hens
But where is the government prepared to address the true magnitude of social problems particularly when these involve class divisions
Not here I fear. The Liberal and National Parties address the more privileged in society. Labor Parties either wallow in petty middle class values or become corrupted. Green parties seem off with the fairies much of the time in a world of windmills and non existent "efficient solar power" and in the idealisation of unsustainable and spartan peasant lifestyles.
It isn't just the mentally ill in our society who seem mentally ill. It is all too often our leaders who are the ones who really appear to have bats in the belfry. The mentally ill often seem to have a better grip on reality than some of them! Social Sanity starts in Parliament, State and federal
But good luck on that!
Team Getup!
April 27th, 2010
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this discussion of what is clearly an essential component of healthcare reform debate and one that deserves much more political commitment.
April 28th, 2010
I would like to see a balance of finances spent in our country on mental health/ and health in general. It's a huge problem particularly with young people, which alot is related to drug taking. I think many people today feel dispondent about the world and their lives and don't know how to come to peace with their struggles. Definaltely more needs to be done in this area. but until the givernment are willing to listen to the people with the problems they are trying to help, they are walking bloind and we will keep getting not very far. Like not quite giving enough money for mental health. I see we seem to have a problem priorotising funds in appropriate places. While the rich get richer the poor get poorer attitude remains i feel priorities will never find the correct balance. So I support getting the right amount of funds to help min the aera of mental health. and suggest the government ask people in volved what they need actually.
Simon Bridge
April 29th, 2010
We need to move on from prominent public figures announcing that they have a mental health disorder - usually depression or maybe bipolar - to the same figures describing how they have recovered, how they are successfully getting on with life despite the problem. We need stories of successs and hope, not just admitting the problem.
TooHard for the system
April 29th, 2010
3 wks ago my son committed suicide. After trying to get help for him since he was 5 years old - that's 15 years of doctors, psychologists and counsellors.
He has been taken under examination orders 3 times in his life and turned away each time.
I believe that the one thing that would have made things better for him would have been if I, as his guardian, had the ability to put him in hospital for assessment after his first attempt at age 14. However, the law stops that action.
If he had needed urgent surgery, such as an appendectomy and didn't want to go to hospital I could sign the authority form and he would have surgery. However, because attempted suicide is a mental health issue and I was unable to get him the help he needed - and no matter how I approached the system he was continually turned away.
One psychiatrist told me that he couldn't hold him for assessment after he was taken to hospital on an Emergency Examination Order after taking about 40 valium,that the hospital psych unit isn't set up to deal with someone with his violent tendancies, and that I should distance myself from him.
He was a troubled 18 year old boy. No I didn't distance myself and just when we thought he was doing well - he chose to leave us - it all got too much for him.
Something has to change....... my son was turned away and the medical care he needed refused .... but of course no one is accountable when it's mental health.
Insight
May 7th, 2010
So sorry for your loss. And sorry to hear of the 5 years of pain and struggle to prevent it. This year is the 10 year anniversary of my brothers suicide (he was 18 with his first manic episode and suicide aged 20 after a second hospitalisation). We are still unable to forgive the unaccoutable system that did not support or listen to us as a family. As my comment (below 4 May) There are signs today this is changing. But funding needs to be directed to the programs that work, and not entrenched and dated systems.
Aaargh
April 30th, 2010
What seems to have been missed is that this is EXPERIMENTAL psychiatry. And where does our money go? The makers of seroquel have just been fined $520Million for illegal marketing! Since May 2004, Pfizer, Eli Lilly & co, Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. & four other drug companies have paid a total of US$7 billion in fines and penalties. Six of the companies admitted in court that they marketed medicines for unapproved uses. McGorry says he can identify people who are at risk of developing a 'mental illness' before they actually show the symptoms to even ask for a diagnosis. He includes "unusual beliefs", (which he certainly has), not being social, lack of initiative as the "prodromal" phase of these disorders. And included in DSMIV is anyone who disagrees with a treatment. The early intervention that he then calls for is antipsychotic medication. For the sake of our children Getup please DO THE RESEARCH. Getup's best intentions have been hijacked. Children at risk, all children, need love and care, understanding and education - not "medication/drugs."
Aaargh ! and alert !!
July 5th, 2010
I agree with you ! I prevented my son's planned suicide, and I am so sad for those who could not save their children in time.I am angry too at the medical system and pharmaceutical mentality. I had to FIGHT to get my son off antidepressant medication which both I and my son believe put him into a suicidal state. It changed his thought processes and behaviour. Then Drs say it is a personality problem, nothing further from the truth. To cut a long story short, son returned to his normal self when taken off antidepressants, and treated more holistically and really listened to. Yes teens, young people, adults do get depressed for many reasons, my son's started with bullying at school. Drs are so quick to give medication, which may initially be of some help, but can be the beginning of a bad cycle or tragic end. There are other ways of helping someone deal with depression.
Me
April 30th, 2010
I agree that there are many people suffering from sever mental illness, I am one of them. However until we get the social determinants sorted...poverty, housing, access to free care, support for those who get sick because they are carers of those who need care etc. I am sick of the private health system being the basis for basic care that should be free until the social determinants are addressed and there is universally affordable care nothing will change. It just means more money going into the end treatment of people (which keeps the drug companies happy). Lets get back to the principles of Primary Health Care as per the World Health Organisation and Alma-Ata. There is too much vested interest by the private sector to maintain health care a commodity for profit.
Maggie
April 30th, 2010
Patrick McGorry is indeed The Australian of the Year. We have been looking for a credible spokesperson to speak out for more support of mental health and I am pleading with the Government to act on his advice. Mental health hasn't been a big political issue until recently but with more and more families being touched by it surely our leaders in their widsom can see the sense in increasing their funding in an attempt to keep people out of hospitals and in the worse cases jail.
Insight
May 4th, 2010
Funding is essential, but moreso, we need better understanding and support programs (short and long term). My firsthand experience is these areas have improved in the last 10 years, with some real progress. I would love to see modelling on the programs that work and not more spending in entrenched and dated systems.
mill
May 7th, 2010
I am so sorry to read your story. How much more painful your loss must be with the frustrations and sadness at a system that failed your family. Let's hope that by sharing your story you will have contributed to making a change in our country.
Eunice
May 7th, 2010
I wrote a long email to Kevin Rudd PM of my story and being turned away all the time by Mental Health. I got a reply but it was through the Health Minister. I was shocked to read their reply, it came in the post. There were all this figures with numbers of what they were doing for Mental Health and it was all directed to telephone line help and internet help - not one single mention of ONE-TO-ONE in person, just a telephone and a computer screen - RUDD! THIS IS ????*##!!!! (frustrated) NOT THE ANSWER!
Jack O\'Neil
May 10th, 2010
Dear Getup friends, Here's an amazing new approach for Mental Health and Depression. A must Listen to Dr Mercola's interview with Robert Whitaker leading Medical Researcher, Author and Pulitzer Prize nominee discusses the widespread use of psychiatric drugs. Cheers Jack.
His first book, Mad in America, explains the history of the treatment of those with severe mental illness. His latest book, which was recently released, is Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America.
Robert Whitaker Transcript (PDF)
Depression is a very pervasive health issue today, and it can be a terminal illness. People commit suicide, caused by depression, each and every day.
The traditional approaches have sought to use drugs to address this problem, but I believe there are far better alternatives. But before I get into that, what does the scientific literature show, in terms of short- and long-term effectiveness of the conventional drug approach?
In this interview, Robert Whitaker, who is a medical journalist and author of two books on this important topic, shares what he’s found after tremendous amounts of research.
How Effective are Antidepressants in the Short- and Long-Term? When looking at the research literature, short-term trials show that antidepressants do NOT provide any clinically significant benefits for mild to moderate depression, compared to a placebo.
And as you know, all drugs have benefit-to-risk ratios, so if a drug is as effective as a placebo in relieving symptoms, it really doesn’t make sense to use them as a first line of defense. And yet doctors all over America prescribe them as if they were indeed sugar pills!
But what about their long-term effectiveness?
According to Whitaker:
“… that’s one of the things I looked at in this book and there are really two things that you find.
You find that even with major depression, in the pre-antidepressant era – and this is depression so severe people were hospitalized – they could expect to get better. The episode would eventually pass.
… So when antidepressants were introduced, the thought was okay, we really can hope to improve on this sort of natural recovery, but maybe we can help people recover quicker? So that really was the rationale for the use of antidepressants.
But it’s really interesting if you follow this course through, forward in history. The minute they start using antidepressants in any sort of large numbers, doctors start saying, “Well, you know, my patients may be getting better, the depression maybe lifting faster, but then we’re noticing that they’re also relapsing more frequently than before, back into depression.”
So right away you get this question: Does the drug treatment actually put people on a more chronic course than before?”
Long-term studies now indicate that of people with major depression, only about 15 percent that are treated with an antidepressant go into remission and stay well for a long period of time.
The remaining 85 percent start having continuing relapses and become chronically depressed.
“By the 1990s, this change in the long term course of depression was so pronounced that finally it was addressed by researchers,” says Whitaker.
“Giovanni Fava from Italy said, “Hey, listen, the course is changing with antidepressants. We’re changing it from an episodic illness to a chronic illness, and we really need to address this.”
Not only that, but the depression is sinking into people [on antidepressants] in a deeper way than before.”
According to Whitaker’s research, this tendency to sensitize the brain to long-term depression appears to be the same both for the earlier tricyclic antidepressants and the newer SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors).
Another famous psycho pharmacologist named Ross Baldessarini at the Harvard Medical School also began asking whether or not these drugs may in fact be depressogenic (causing depression).
Unfortunately, the evidence points that way, and the long-term prognosis when taking antidepressants is quite bleak, as this type of drug treatment has a whopping 85 percent chronic relapse rate.
It’s time for this trend to be broken.
Every year, 230 million prescriptions for antidepressants are filled, making them one of the most-prescribed drugs in the United States. Despite all of these prescription drugs being taken, more than one in 20 Americans are depressed, according to the most recent statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
The statistics alone should be a strong indication that what we’re doing is simply not working, and that instead, these drugs are contributing to other serious health problems.
Fortunately, there are other, safer, more effective ways, and some countries are starting to pay heed to the fact that research is actually showing it to be beneficial, rather than bowing to the will of pharmaceutical companies.
What the Research Says about Alternative Treatments for Depression One study conducted by Duke University in the late 1990’s divided depressed patients into three treatment groups:
Exercise only Exercise plus antidepressant Antidepressant drug only After six weeks, the drug-only group was doing slightly better than the other two groups. However, after 10 months of follow-up, it was the exercise-only group that had the highest remission and stay-well rate.
Some countries are taking these types of research findings seriously, and are starting to base their treatments on the evidence at hand.
The UK, for example, does not routinely recommend antidepressants as the first line of therapy for mild to moderate depression anymore, and doctors there can write out a prescription to see an exercise counselor instead.
“With that prescription… you now get either a reduced rate or a free rate at a gym for six months,” Whitaker explains. “Part of the exercise might be “green gyms”… gardening outside, nature walks, repairing trails, hiking trails. And they are finding that people really like this. People comply with it…
People who have gone through this course and have been prescribed exercise, they say that rather than seeing themselves as a victim of depression, and helpless before it -- that they have this sort of biological problem they can’t do anything about -- they say, “Aha, I can make a change, I can do something. It’s in my willpower to do something that will help this problem lift.”
So it empowers the patient in a different way that drugs do not.”
Since 2007, when this new program was first introduced, the rate of British doctors prescribing exercise for depression has increased from about 4 percent to about 25 percent.
Studies on exercise as a treatment for depression are also showing that there is a strong correlation between improved mood and aerobic capacity. So there’s a growing acceptance that the mind-body connection is very real, and that maintaining good physical health can significantly lower your risk of developing depression in the first place.
Two Side Effects of Antidepressants You Need to Be Aware of “There are two side effects or risks that really need to be addressed, and that everybody should be thinking about, that show up in the scientific literature,” Whitaker says.
“The first risk is that you’ll convert from unipolar depression to bipolar depression.
… One of the things we’ve seen with the use of the SSRIs is this incredible, extraordinary boom in bipolar diagnoses, and that is definitely tied to the widespread use of antidepressants.
Now, in kids, something like 25 to 50 percent of all kids placed on an antidepressant, who stay on that antidepressant for five years, will convert to bipolar illness. With adults, it seems like about 25 percent of long term of users that begin with a diagnosis of unipolar depression will convert to bipolar.
Bipolar used to be a fairly rare disorder but now it’s becoming much more common. Why is this so bad?
Well, when you convert from depression to bipolar, now you’re in a category where you’re often treated with a cocktail of medications including an antipsychotic medication, and long-term bipolar outcomes are really problematic in this country.
Only about 35 percent of bipolar patients are employed. So you see this risk of disability.
So my point is this, when you go on an antidepressant, you do have a risk of having a manic episode and that is a risk of becoming “a bipolar patient,” and at that moment you’re into a much more long-term problematic disorder that does not have a good outcome today.
The second real risk is that there is a lot of evidence compiling [showing] that if you stay on antidepressants for five, ten, fifteen years, there is some real worry with cognitive decline associated with that long term use.”
Most of you have probably heard that depression is due to a “chemical imbalance in your brain,” which these drugs are designed to correct.
Unfortunately for anyone who has ever swallowed this marketing ploy, this is NOT a scientific statement.
“The low serotonin theory arose because they understood how the drugs acted on the brain,” Whitaker explains.
“But it was just a hypothesis borne to try to explain why the drug might be fixing something. They investigated whether people had low serotonin…[But] in 1983, NIMH concluded that there is no evidence that there is anything wrong in the serotonergic system of depressed patients. And this was in 1983 before Prozac was released.
So there was never evidence that people with depression characteristically had low levels of serotonin.
As one doctor I interviewed about this who did some of this research said, “The serotonin theory of depression is comparable to the masturbatory theory of insanity.” It’s just not a scientific statement.”
Making matters worse, if you do not have low serotonin levels when you’re depressed, but you start taking an SSRI drug that blocks the normal reuptake of serotonin, you end up with the very physiological problem the drug is designed to treat –low serotonin levels. Which, ironically, is the state hypothesized to bring on depression in the first place.
In 1996, neuroscientist Steven Hyman, who was head of the NIMH at the time, and is today Provost of Harvard University, published the paper Initiation and Adaptation: A Paradigm for Understanding Psychotropic Drugs, in which he explains this chain of events.
According to Dr. Hyman, once your brain has undergone these compensatory adaptations to the drug, your brain operates in a manner that is “both qualitatively and quantitatively different than normal.”
“So these are not normalizing agents, from a scientific point of view,” Whitaker says.
Really they are abnormalizing agents, and once you understand that, you can understand why maybe they might provoke a manic episode; why they might be associated with sexual dysfunction or violence, acathisia, etcetera.
It’s because they in fact are abnormalizing agents.”
Whitaker discusses numerous other areas of confusion and shares many additional facts about the treatments for depression in this interview, so please, if you or anyone you know suffers from depression, do listen to the entire interview, or read through the transcript.
This is vital information that could very well save your life, or the life of someone close to your heart.
Finding an effective treatment for depression is not something to approach lightly, and having the facts about what actually works, and what doesn’t, is imperative.
In addition, below you will find the four cornerstones of healthy living that would be part of any successful treatment plan.
Other Key Factors to Overcoming Depression Address your stress -- Depression is a very serious condition, however it is not a “disease.” Rather, it’s a sign that your body and your life are out of balance.
This is so important to remember, because as soon as you start to view depression as an “illness,” you think you need to take a drug to fix it. In reality, all you need to do is return balance to your life, and one of the key ways to doing this is addressing stress.
Meditation or yoga can help. Sometimes all you need to do is get outside for a walk. But in addition to that, I also recommend using a system that can help you address emotional issues that you may not even be consciously aware of. For this, my favorite is Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT). However, if you have depression or serious stress, I believe it would be best to consult with a mental health professional who is also an EFT practitioner to guide you.
Eat a healthy diet -- Another factor that cannot be overlooked is your diet. Foods have an immense impact on your mood and ability to cope and be happy, and eating whole foods as described in my nutrition plan will best support your mental health. Avoiding sugar and grains will help normalize your insulin and leptin levels, which is another powerful tool in addressing depression.
Support optimal brain functioning with essential fats -- I also strongly recommend supplementing your diet with a high-quality, animal-based omega-3 fat, like krill oil. This may be the single most important nutrient to battle depression.
Get plenty of sunshine – Making sure you’re getting enough sunlight exposure to have healthy vitamin D levels is also a crucial factor in treating depression or keeping it at bay. One previous study found that people with the lowest levels of vitamin D were 11 times more prone to be depressed than those who had normal levels. Vitamin D deficiency is actually more the norm than the exception, and has previously been implicated in both psychiatric and neurological disorders.
The MOST Effective Treatment for Depression Isn't Drugs... But You'll Never Hear That From Your Psychiatrist.
Also see Great life changing Mental Health videos at My Family Health.
All of this is great, but then, by the back door, it's made more difficult for people with mental health problems to access services. They're already marginalised, and now its going to be even more difficult for them to access health services. The strain on the public mental health system is immense and this decision (Better Access) will make it more difficult for people to access services in the private sector, putting more strain on an already struggling public system. My advice to you all...don't develop a mental illnes!!!
mal
May 14th, 2010
Mental health is a HUGE problem. People are suffering. We need your help, Mal
Jude
May 16th, 2010
My daughter was diagnosed with schizophrenia, psychosis and depression and went thru the excellent Orygen program. The program is only available to patients for 2 years, and then was compelled to leave as her funding stopped. She was not well and only moderately well stabilized. Do cancer patients have to leave hospital after two years treatment? My son has given up his university course to help look after his sister. I have used up my resources supporting her. I am exhausted. As a family group we have no more options. My daughter is still not well, although she is the best she has ever been. She has an excellent chance of having good, long term outcomes because of they type of condition she has. If she gets the support she needs. I am exhausted. What if I slip?
Steve
May 17th, 2010
You are so spot on. This is 'normal' for most families. Its their clinical practices that are the biggest problem. They are mid-50's practices, based on medications and little else. Multi-disciplinary teams they often publish in their glossy brochures don't exist. They talk about psycho-social and other support but in reality they don't provide it and don't have the skills to provide it, nor show any interest in it.
Its not just more funding, its their practices from the 'horse and cart' days they continue to use that's the biggest issue. Their practices and inefficient and wasteful use of people resources.
The disconnect between capability of the mental health research areas and mainstream hospital mental health services are centuries apart. For some reason, mainstream mental health services lack an ability to learn and apply more effective and cost-effective methods that are well proven by the research groups.
The level of stigma the mainstream mental health system has towards carers/families as highlighted by the recent MHCA survey, has been ignored, as no funding has been allocated to address this major failure by the system to implement this core aspect in mental health policy.
Steve
May 17th, 2010
You can go to http://www.mentalwakeup.com to find out about all the latest multi-disciplinary approaches to effective mental health care and how effective care can be provided, with links to references from numerous clinical journals. Links to free online courses for clinicians or anyone also there. You have to be inquisitive and look for information - the site doesn't 'spoon feed' !
equity
May 17th, 2010
The Green Party has recently called for school chaplains to be replaced by trained psychologists/counsellors.
I refer you to the link below from the latest newsletter of the Scripture Union Qld, currently funded by the Federal Government to provide school chaplains.
It demonstrates clearly the failure of the government to invest in sound, evidence based and accountable initiatives to respond to the urgent mental health needs of young Australians. More scrutiny of precious resource investments is urgently required.
This is not just an issue of the size of investments but accountability about quality. Untrained, unqualified individuals on the frontline of youth mental health is inexcusable.
Even worse the religious/ethical standpoint of some individuals makes it impossible for them to impartially advise youth.
I would like to see the introduction of the term Mental WEALTH...after working in the homeless sector for many years and providing art based life coaching for people with mental health issues it is interesting to see the difference in attitude and receptivity when the topic of Mental WEALTH is on the agenda...for people who have been in the mental health system for many years, it is a term that carries a very different {{current}}} than their current circumstances...and that is most often a very positive thing indeed....
Along with the need for the high profile of mental health issues, it is a good idea to have an equally powerful linguistic tool that creates a neuro-pathway for a totally different concept to the one that people have been trained into as a result of the western paradigm of focusing on the issue but rarely putting an alternative alongside of it during public information campaigns....
The same principle works if you think about how relentlessly we hear about the "Indigenous Disadvantage"...yet NEVER see public reference to the Indigenous ADVANTAGE...of which there are many that us disadvantaged white fellas will never know....
Lynn Wallace-Clancy
May 21st, 2010
I can't believe we don't consider this issue as an integral part of our normal health funding. So sad to write this on the day another mentally ill person has been shot by poorly prepared Victorian police.
mark
May 29th, 2010
Many (but not all) of the worries, dilemmas and concerns that people experience and seek support for are often responded to by 'mental health' services. Unfortunately, while not ignoring their helpfulness, people are often left further pathologised, marginalised and considered 'disordered'. The problems people experience are often an outcome of social, cultural and community ideas and practices that are not inclusive or supportive of people in their different efforts to live life on their own terms. The problems people experience can also be exacerbated by unsupportive individual and community responses that do not consider the real effects of what people are dealing with such as experiences of trauma, isolation, and lack of understanding. Instead, quick fixes, text book solutions and so called 'expert knowledge' is regarded more highly than the knowledge of people and their families who experience distress and isolation. The government initiatives outlined in this campaign are admirable perhaps but has any careful analysis taken place as to how these responses are supporting people. Care needs to be taken that 'youth friendly' does not disguise the pathologising of people and opportunities for misguided medical intervention. Questions need to be asked about who is supported and who isn't and at what cost. Questions need to be asked about who is and who isn't consulted with regarding who has the greatest say on how services are shaped. Knowledge can be found at multiple sites - but often it's the institutions with power that have the greatest say - instead of those individuals, families, groups and communities who know what is absent, know what is needed, know how they want to be responded to. There is an opportunity to do something different and in ways that go beyond the familiar medical intervention and familiar 'psychologising' of peoples lives.
Hayley
June 5th, 2010
That won't be enough to seriously help the Mentally Ill, I mean it's a start but allot more programs, coordination is needed for everyone to work together, I wonder how many more people will commit suicide.
LovelyLoo
June 8th, 2010
A lot has been said about serious mental health but the Rudd government is about to rob Peter to pay Paul. Funds presently spent on consultations (up to 18 per annum) for people with depression, serious stress issues and generally not coping with life will lose these opportunities to become well before they fall into the serious mentally ill area. These ordinary folk of ALL ages from children through to mature age will be affected. Once again Rudd is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and do a patched up job that looks good on the surface but will do so much damage in the long term. Mental health funding should be for all not just the worst cases which are often, but not always self inflicted by taking psychotic drugs.
Neddly
June 11th, 2010
Dear Ms. Roxon,
I for one will not be attending the meeting in Canberra on 24th June, as I don’t believe that this is any more than a political stunt to keep us quiet before the upcoming election. I and many more of my colleagues and community sympathisers see nothing that indicates a desire on your part to re-examine the ill conceived plan to discriminate against Clinical Social Workers and OT’s in the budget. All we get is the same rhetoric, which to me and many others clearly says that you are not prepared to reconsider your position. In Light of that I put the following questions to you with respect,- please forgive my bluntness, I am bone tired and extremely concerned at what is happening, that I do not have nergy to waste on polite repartee:
• What happened to the traditional Labour commitment that you so passionately espoused in your maiden speech to parliament as the then new member for Gellibrand? I refer to issues of “fairness, equity, social justice, access”? Or are these simply an inconvenient truth come budget time? • The move to ATAPS simply will not work – more than 90% of ATAPS services are currently provided by psychologists, as the referrers are GP’divisions of general practice, why would they change their referral patterns? Or do you plan to take on the AMA and the APS (who have both been strangely quiet in this debate) and tell them how to do their jobs as well? • If you are really serious about saving big dollars in your budget, and getting the best clinical outcomes, maybe you would well to appoint an independent board with two members of each profession providing input to screening all professional applications for registration as mental health providers? We would all have to jump through the same hoops then wouldn’t we? i.e. All admitted practitioners would have to have at least a four year accredited degree, with two years of post graduate experience working in AN ACCREDITED MENTAL HEALTH facility. If you applied this yardstick, you might find that there is saving that would make the current figure of 4% seem stingy by comparison • Leading on from the latter point, contrary to popular belief, not all generally registered psychologists are experts in mental health. Many working under the better access scheme gained their two years of supervised practice in the education system, public sector employment such as centrelink, or at generic health or welfare agencies. I am not bagging the psychologists, most of those I know are good, sincere and hard working people, however, I am concerned that the same yardstick is not being applied to all persons • On the matter of psychologists, when did they stop being allied health? I thought we were all either, medical, nursing or allied health providers? Most government and other correspondence now reads: “ GP’s , Psychologists...and allied health providers”. This is patently misleading language implying that psychologists are in some way apart and superior to others. This is misleading and requires correction/amendment. We are all allied health providers, and our undergraduate training and clinical placements are to very similar standards nationwide; it’s what is done to develop expertise AFTER Graduation that tells the tale about the expertise one develops and is qualified to provide. There is no conclusive research anywhere that suggests one group or another is better placed to provide care in mental health • Study after study has demonstrated that the critical element in preventative health and minimisation of risk is the quality of the rapport and continuity of the relationship built up in therapy. I have been seeing some of my clients, on and off for up to ten years, and many more over the three years since better access was initiated. So I and many others will now have to tell these people that they will have to go and see someone new, and tell their tales all over again? Many of these people do not have the energy to do that, minister. This is abuse. • Your government, most notably your parliamentary leader have been passionate in their commitment to preventative health measures, when did you decide to tear down the fence at the cliff-top and replace it with more ambulances at the bottom, and why? • Given that our undergraduate training is demonstrably similar, and that our clinical experience and training are at least the equal of that which the psychologists have – if I were a psychologist for example, I would qualify for the clinical label at least twice over – why is it that the rebates for a newly registered general Psych are almost fifteen dollars higher for a 50 minute consult than what I am entitled to? Apart from an undergrad degree, I also have a grad dip, Masters, and am halfway through a clinical doctorate in dual diagnosis, I also have 15 years of experience in a public MENTAL health facility. I have many colleagues who are similarly qualified and experienced. Why does this discrepancy exist? Again, it perpetuates the myth that one group have superior standing to another. Will your government move to rectify this?
I stand ready to have further discussions with you about any of the above, or any other points of concern, you may have questions about. I am particularly interested in your views given that I am a former resident of your electorate, and still have many relatives and friends who continue to reside there.
Kind Regards,
Neddly
Accredited Clinical MH Social Worker. MSW, Grad Dip Clinical Hypnosis, BSW, Dip.Soc.Sci, Certified in Developmental Psychiatry
Davidr
June 20th, 2010
News today that the PM's Chief Adviser on mental health has resigned because he believes Labor lacks a vision on mental health underscores the importance of mental health as an election issue.
Isabeldora
June 22nd, 2010
Perhaps cynical, but the greatest problem with the old, large asylums was that they were situated on prime real estate. Every one of the mental institutions which assisted me along life's journey is now subsumed by housing estates and/or shopping centres. The beauty of that old system was that the patients were, for however short or long a time, a community within the community where the support given by patients to patients was the most practical and real support one could hope for. While the staff may believe themselves to be the supporters, they were, in the main, the custodians - some decent people but as many who could easily have been the patient instead of the nurse. What most people need/ed was time; time to sort oneself out and work out survival strategies. for instance, I used to have regular suicidal moods and after a failed (flukey) event knew that to surrender to the mood was not on. What I did when the mood (black dog) was too heavy to bear on my own was to sit up with friends who somehow understood where I was at and kept me company in that dark. Since returning to Australia and often in a remote area, when I felt in a fragile state, I would take myself to the nearest hospital and say I just wanted to sit in a safe place for a while. The mood passes. Finally diagnosed as bipolar and thankfully medicated on lithium for 14 years, I understood from the beginning that my mental health, treatment and progress was MY responsibility. At my late age, where it seems unlikely that I will ever again have the energy for another manic episode, I find myself lacking in sympathy, empathy and patience for those who will not just get on with it! I am getting heartily tired of pleas for donations to find cures for cancer when we live in a society where there seems no cure for stupidity such as that evidenced by drink drivers who kill as many people as people kill themselves. No government can provide a solution to suit all; no amount of money will ever be enough; life is not, was not and never will be fair.
Jock
June 22nd, 2010
The fax an MP from the mental health page does not work - it keeps telling me to "select and MP" even though I do each time
Matt
June 22nd, 2010
I was once a prisoner, and on my way to goal, for crimes i committed during my alcoholism days... I am now sober for over 12 years now. I recall one day getting on a prison bus from court, and noticed a young man who looked like a boy was getting placed on the bus with me. As we sat down the guards then placed our belongings on the bus as well. The young man on the bus with me had a large packet of NAPPIES in his property. I was horrified.. This young man was about to be placed in the most brutal enviroment you could think of, He would have zero chance of recovery, if he did manage to survive...
Holly Coffee
June 22nd, 2010
I feel for you and for your son. I've no doubt your son, yourself and your family did the very best you could with what you had available at the time. That's all anyone can ask.
The "professionals" are, unfortunately constrained by the rules & regs and, naturally, the lack of money and training. They are over-worked and have to protect themselves otherwise they'd go under and people like your son and my daughter-in-law would have had no-one.
No the real culprits are the govt (all govts past and present, federal and state) and the administrators. They have no pity, no empathy. They didn't do the best they could with what they had at the time.
The only place they hurt is the hip pocket and the publicity nerve. A really big class action would be best but maybe the strong among us can take them to court individually and win. But that's so hard that I and my family couldn't do it. We had to take care of the children she loved and left behind.
Love yourself, TooHard, tell yourself you did the best you could with what you had ... its true. Love yourself, love your son, love the living. Best wishes Hope health and happiness, Holly
OverIt
June 22nd, 2010
Beenthere,
Haven't you noticed...Unless you have loads of cash...Dentists are not an option for many. If you live in any way rural or remote you have to put up and shut up.Poor dentition=poor nutrition=poor health=increased cost. Prevention is better than cure. Such obvious solutions seem to be beyond the grasp of the average politician & bureaucrat. The "health system" is obscenely top heavy. Chop from the top!
marchfly
June 23rd, 2010
This Government has gone from 'a toe in water to a foot' in less than one term. After so many years of total mismanagement of mental health issues, we should be rejoicing, not blaming. Obviously there is movement in the right direction.
antibully
June 23rd, 2010
How do we define mental health and illness?
A big cause of suicide is bullying. Attempting suicide is strong evidence, perhaps proof, of mental illness. But many who commit suicide are victims of bullies.
Bullies range from the kid in the school playground wanting to prove how tough he is, through individuals who commit murder, to governments that oppress a weaker state or group of people. People who willingly encourage a government to bully are also bullies.
Surely bullies are mentally ill. As a nation, we suck up to bullies for fear of losing their trade. What if our government imposed economic sanctions on China while its government continues its reign of oppression against the Tibetans? People would be outraged - China is such a good customer. I think that makes those of us who do not regard this as a problem mentally ill. How many Tibetans live without hope?
The superstitious bigots of ancient times who hunted and murdered alleged witches were mentally ill. We would not do such a thing now, would we? But would we really shun such a practice today? There are similar modern cases. I feel it is dangerous to cite some of them - they are part of our culture. Most of us are still superstitious. When witches were hunted and murdered, they were very unpopular. How many of us would have protested against their treatment?
Throwing more money at the problem of mental illness will do little to solve it if the money is not spent well. We really need a change in our culture. To start we need an environment in which people can feel safe speaking out against bullying and superstition as part of our culture.
How do we achieve that?
barry the boofhead
June 23rd, 2010
It seems that we have a decision point coming soon and we need to start not only drawing attention to this important issues, but to start to look at the alternatives we face.
Can we please have the Prof's provide an ongoing comparative assessment of the policies and performance of the alternatives we will face please?
Just saying the Government is not doing enough is fine, but with the publicity over Prof M's resignation, one gets the impression that the Liberal policy must be better. Is it?
We can only elect those that stand and we need clear, concise and independent comparisons between the options we face on this and all major policy areas.
We are not going to get this from the traditional media (Des Shanahan comes to mind).
My plea is to focus on the choices we face as well as ground roots action to get important issues raised.
We face some bleak decisions and we do not get information from our major media outlets, only self interested opinions.
Daniel Lee
June 23rd, 2010
Having worked for a short while as a mental health nurse, I could not help but feel that we are fighting a hopeless battle. What we need is a COMPREHENSIVE PLAN that is actionable and measurable. Yes, its good to recognise that the mental health sector is not given due consideration. But it can only be as good if we have policies and strategies to make the thing work. Pumping in money is NOT the answer. I have seen fathers who smuggle cannabis into the Mental Health ward for his son to share with the others. There is such a high correlation between mental health issues and drug abuse. Which is the trigger for the other, I don't know but I know unless we seperate the two, no matter what we do, we will be chasing our tails. Would be good if we can outline a detail strategy so that we are on the same page and not merely calling for more funding but unable to justify what we want to speand it on.
MartinV
June 23rd, 2010
Like the the story of 'Mary', I lost someone in exactly the same manner: my wife. She went to a public hospital psych ward after first attempt and was discharged next morning. Then she walked out of a private hospital full of drugs to her end. She left me with 2 children 2.5 yo and 13 month old. This was 8 years ago and I am still fighting without support or compensation. Is a life totally worthless?
Louisekay
June 23rd, 2010
Like MatinV and Mary I have also lost a loved one in similar circumstances. He was taken to the emergency department of a large hosital and despite the doctors having full knowledge of his condition (bi-polar disorder) his noncompliance with medication and his statements that he wanted to die he was not admitted to a phsychiatric unit and he killed himself 2 1/2 hours later by jumping 15 stories. I have since (2 years) struggled with the various beaurocracies in an attempt to get some recognition of the meaninglessness of his death with no success. It has been a profoundly devastating experience for me
SteveMc
June 23rd, 2010
Seems to me that while there is clearly a need to invest in Mental Health services (intervention) targeted at those most at risk - and from the above comments, there are many sub-categories - an equally important question is WHY as society advances is there an increase in illness of this type.
I have looked at studies and literature regarding the causes of Mental Illness, and they often, but not always, seem to point at the pressures of modern life and family/social relationship breakdown.
That being the case one wonders what any government can really do to address the root causes of illness?
If it is the way we live and form society that harms us, and especially our young people, shouldn't we also be looking at changes to the way we live, and the expectations we place on our young?
Vombatus
June 23rd, 2010
At last we are standing up to politicians on the Mental health Issue.
If I could have one of those politicians for five minutes I would like to ask them whether they have seen an autopsy of a suicide. I have during my nursing training! I sure makes the issue of mental health come up close and personal.
But the real shame is the living, In the past ten years two of my friends have been jailed unnecessarily. They were mentally ill. Another 5 have have died some were suicides. One was murdered.
I have lost count of the times I have taken people to hospital for treatment only to have it refused. We even got a friend who had self harmed grossly to hospital only to have them stich it up and release her two days after.
If it isn't a crying shame it is a complete joke.
So the politicians are fixing to ignore us. Well I have only one thing to say to them. "You buggers walk a week in my shoes experience the black dog I live with daily and then turn around and do the things I do and see the things I have seen. You would not ignore us then." The fact that politicians ignore us now means they would rather have us dead than deal with the cost of providing adequate treatment. But then who listens to broken down nurses.
carer
June 24th, 2010
The system as it stands does not work for people with mental illness. If you are having a psychotic episode you can not and will not wait for hours in the emergency department to be seen.... only to be turned away because there are'nt enough beds. If something happens in the middle of the night what options are there for carers when crisis happens? We're told to take them to the emergeny department (even if they are an outpatient on an ITO) or call the police - who don't seem to be educated enough about these issues either. Is there a program for carers to learn how to best deal with these situations in QLD?
Katie=Maree
June 24th, 2010
I am in shocked just reading and hearing what I have heard and WHY, because we my husband and children have suffered since 2006 at the hands of the so called State Government and only to be turned away by suffering of watching our then 13 year old daughter Self Harming and wanting to end her life. Instead of helping us and her as a family unit they removed her and placed her into care and told us it was for her best interest and safety and then when I said no they placed her under the minister of Docs and placed her in a High Intensive group home for teenagers which then was in Newcastle a 2 hour drive from her family. Since then she has been placed on 3 drugs to help her with her suicidal and self harming issues and they then mind you had no counselling for her and then when I complained last year that why is she not having counselling and then to be told she has to be on a list for this to happen. My question is it why as of today that my daughter now just turned 17 years of age has had 62 attempts of suicide while being in care and being turned away from The Nexus unit in the John Hunter after severe attempts of suicide and them saying no we will not take her any-more as they see Self Harming is different to Suicide. SO PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THIS MESS WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND MENTAL HEALTH FOR OUR KIDS AND FAMILIES THAT SUFFER TODAY. I support you Professor Patrick McGorry and also Jon Mendoza's. Thanking you Mrs Katie-Maree Sibraa
June 24th, 2010
I have a 8 year old daughter India who never got to meet her father. He died on the 6th December 2000. After struggling with depression for many years. He was such a gentle honest man that deserved a better end. She often asks me how he died and i tell her that he was very sad and god asked him to come to heaven. How do you explain to an 8 year old treasure that her father couldnt bear the thought of living another day, taking another breath feeling the way he did. We enjoyed some wonderful times together and i treasure these memories. But to this day i remember those sad eyes. There just didnt seem to be enough support. When we needed help it just wasnt there. It became bigger then either of us could handle. Today i believe that he is safe and no longer in pain. Or maybe that is what gets me through my greif and guilt. There are many members in my community living this on a daily basis. And it all comes down to money. I would pay anything to see my daughters father hold her, kiss her forehead and just once to hear him tell her he loves her.
Eunice
June 24th, 2010
Nasty what the Labor ministers did to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd; sadly, they will not even bother about Mental Health, just wait and you will see. The last Liberal government were more caring towards their leader even though they knew he look outcasted but they supported him through and through and that is the pure reason he lasted so long (11 years) but Gillard stole the Prime Ministership, she is not PM to me, not until and if she is elected in March 2011. They shouldn't turf someone out purely because of the Polls, ridiculous.
There is a full moon and it seems the Labor-Union-Ministers went really crazy yesterday.
TooHard for the system
June 24th, 2010
MartinV
I too lost my son to suicide a couple of months ago - after fighting to get him help for 5 yrs. His first attempt was when he was only 15 yrs old.
Patrick McGorry and John Mendoza have a great plan... and I'm tired of hearing about there not being enough money. That's not the problem of the patient. As Vombatus said - they'd rather see them dead than bother dealing with them - and I don't believe it's just about money.. They just don't care.
The doctors, and the hospitals are not LEGALLY responsible when the doctors stuff up when it's mental health - because they aren't accountable.
They seem to be exempt from legal responsibility.
Bottom line - they simply don't care if the patient they are turning away will suicide - they then say it was their 'choice'.... and we know how wrong that is...
So - death from disease that results from a medical doctor stuff-up is something you can hold a doctor accountable for - but not for death from disease that is mental ill-health.
Until the doctors and hospitals know that they can be sued for damages relating to their malpractice (because that's what it is) - they simply have nothing to worry about... because they aren't accountable.
Maybe those of us who have suffered a loss - either through the suicide of a loved one - or from the harm caused to the productivity of your own life or that of a loved one should bann together and hold them accountable in the courts....
Maybe then they will get the picture. But how when the solicitors won't even take on the cases???
DD
June 25th, 2010
Surely in relation to inappropriate treatment of a patient such as unreasonably early discharge or failure to treat we are in the area defined by the term "Duty of Care"
I agree that those making such decisions should indeed be held accountable, but this would require that a patient be compulsorarily detained as under a schedule. If the patient technically leaves voluntarily - even if "influenced" so to do - then this rather gets the medical facility off the hook
I agree there is a need for clarification here. I would question whether "lack of facilities" really would count in Court as a defence in such matters
Worth exploring perhaps in the search for proper mental health care. Maybe the hospitals etc need more accessible powers to detain a patient for 24 hours so that lack of them cannot be used as an excuse. Difficult ground here in terms of Human Rights
DUTY OF CARE (wiki)
In tort law, (or delict in Scots law) a duty of care is a legal obligation imposed on an individual requiring that they adhere to a standard of reasonable care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others.
It is the first element that must be established to proceed with an action in negligence. The plaintiff (pursuer in Scotland) must be able to show a duty of care imposed by law which the defendant (or defender) has breached.
In turn, breaching a duty may subject an individual to liability in tort or delict. The duty of care may be imposed by operation of law between individuals with no current direct relationship (familial or contractual or otherwise), but eventually become related in some manner, as defined by common law (meaning case law).
Duty of care may be considered a formalization of the social contract, the implicit responsibilities held by individuals towards others within society. It is not a requirement that a duty of care be defined by law, though it will often develop through the jurisprudence of common law.
TooHard for the system
June 29th, 2010
DD - the problems don't just occur because of early release or inappropriate care - there's also problems relating to not providing any care - including assessment.
There is legislation that allows a psychiatrist / hospital to hold a patient if that patient requires it and won't agree to it - that's the purpose of the Mental Health Act.
I think that there's certainly a consensus of opinion among most people that the 'system' is broken - but it seems that we tiptoe around the topic of responsibility and accountability as it applies to individual practitioners.
In Qld today a surgeon was found guilty of murder because he made mistakes in delivery his specialty care. There seems to be some acceptability of accountability when it comes to physical health - but the same doesn't happen for mental health patients.
I guess that's my point. I wonder if things would be different if they did....
If the law is at fault then the law needs changing. Sitting back accepting things as they are simply hasn't worked.
The quality practitioners that have been fighting for change for decades, trying to get governments to provide more beds, more funding, different programs etc have been struggling against that front - and if change doesn't come now - then it will be another frustration for them.
But I fear that they aren't enough - until there is clear legal responsibility and accountability nothing will change.
DD
June 30th, 2010
I know of one recent case where precisely what you describe happened, TH. This case alone validates what you say.
A man in his thirties with a drug problem moved in on elderly relatives. The relationship appeared to be a combination of concern for him and fear of his moods. He had obvious schizophrenia type problems.
He started growing skunk (madweed) in the basement of the house. He became progressively psychotic and physically ill. To get him to hospital it took his doctor, two ambulance officers, and the police, all of whom behaved impeccably and with great sympathy and understanding
Despite his psychotic and debilitated state and the hospital's being briefed on the circumstances, he was released from hospital within hours, to return to his octogenerian relatives house, with no psychiatric assessment and by public transport too.
This at least gave time to dismantle the hydroponics and destroy the crop and get help for the elderly relatives who had nearly been killed through anxiety and worry
I won't name the hospital. It was one of the largest in our city and in fact does have a major psychiatric arm to its operations
Our Health System certainly needs money but mental health treatment also requires legislation that forces hospitals to take action in such cases rather than simply patch up and release a madman into the community
Yes the result would be that the system would fall totally on its face - it probably has to before anyone will do anything. We don't have a mental health problem. What is being hidden - particularly in my state of NSW since the days of the Richmond report - is that we have an EMERGENCY.
TooHard for the system
July 1st, 2010
You are absolutely right. I'm in Qld and things are bad here too.
The funding announced by Tony Abbott today was good news. However, it's a beginning but nothing more than that. It's not enough - particularly when you look at the amount of money being committed to things like the national broadband - $43billion - which is more than 20 times the amount allocated to mental health. You have to ask what's more important saving lives or faster internet access. Maybe they could give half to mental health instead, and leave the commercial world to deal with the broadband speeds.
There also needs to be legislative changes to make implementation of the Mental Health Act easier for practitioners and culpability if they fail to enact the act when it's needed. Practitioners must be responsible and accountable for their non-performance and the lack of or incorrect care they provide.
And even then none of these things will effect change without addressing the continuing stigma in our society. Oh we have come a long way - in the workplace etc... but if we don't do something to help the sufferers not feel like they are freaks and will be 'labelled' they won't seek or agree to help. Check out the 'Bring Change 2 Mind' campaign in the US (it's on the internet at www.bringchange2mind.org)..
Then there is the lack of hospital facilities and the lack of support following release from hospital that increases the risk of suicide by some 200% - and this figure is due to the lack of follow up services. I also believe that the experience in hospital and the stories that still abound need to be addressed - without this the stigma and fear that sufferers feel will continue and given the reluctance to actually provide help and the propensity to blame the victims - suicides will continue and ill- cared-for mental illness will continue.
The state of the mental health system across Australia is in crisis - and it's costing people their lives and their quality of life - and impacting almost all of us in some way or another.
revolving door
July 1st, 2010
I have had many years of experience as a psychiatric social worker .
Homes have to be brought in to accommodate and ensure that the last third of the community who cannot cope due to a genetic progressive disease do not land up in jails!!!!! THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE ..!!. MORE MONEY HAS TO BE SPENT ON HOMES AND HELP AS PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING ALL OVER AUSTRALIA BECAUSE OF INADEQUATE SERVICES.
Roger Hanney
July 2nd, 2010
I wrote at length to GetUp several weeks ago detailing my concerns about the organisation's apparent lack of ability to connect with real issues in a relevant way over the past 12 months. No answer. Awesome. Since then, I have seen a couple more genuine pieces of political lobbying in the public interest by GetUp and that has been somewhat heartening, although rehashing the plane flying over Parliament is pretty much the same as running up a white flag saying "we're out of ideas". This new initiative is a very worthy one - mental health care in Australia is complicated to access and hard to understand, ironically when the people needing to access it need a system that is exactly the opposite of that. Even the new scheme of having GP's fill in a lengthy referral questionnaire is time-consuming and ineffective, almost unhelpful. Just as bad, maybe worse as it will affect even more people, is the fact that someone at GetUp gave approval for the use of the group's mail list to promote Tony Abbott and the right-wing COALition in an election year. Nice work guys. I know you'd like to have a government with whom you can have clear instead of complicated stoushes but please think of the rest of us and the nation's shaky future when you send out a million emails praising fundamentalist Christian conservatives who have chosen to ride the current affairs coattails of the day. Thanks.
DD
July 2nd, 2010
I agree with you on this Roger.
Whilst one may find two hearty cheers for a Coalition election promise to raise mental health funding, the third cheer is silenced by the reality that so much misery - classified as "mental illness - and especially as "depression" - is really caused by the circumstances and environment of the non egalitarian society that is promoted, strengthened, and protected, by right wing forces - to keep the rich in prosperity
The trickle down effect that Conservatism is to proud of, is in fact a "trickle up" effect. Promoting a class divided society - rewarding the already rich and the middle class professions does nothing for the poor and the sick in our society.
As a previous poster said - accommodation in Australia is a disaster - not just for the mentally sick, however, but for a very high percentage of the population. The nation needs an emergency housing program building hundreds of thousands of decent and properly infrastructured homes - at morally decent prices and rents. The present situation is nothing less than iniquitous.
How is a person supposed not to mentally deteriorate if he or she cannot house the family on the crap wages that the rich believe they deserve? Being poor means a poor quality home, bad food, no entertainment, no meals in restaurants very few evenings in clubs
It means inferior schooling and inability to purchase text books, in many cases no further education, bad vehicles, cheap or second hand clothing, inadequate heating, damp homes - and so on
When a psychiatrist asks a patient what is wrong with them, just how often is the real answer "that I do not belong to the class you belong to - I do not earn the ridiculous wages you earn. You can earn more in an hour or two - just sitting there - than I can earn in a week"
No wonder people are depressed - can't cope - resort to drugs and alcohol, and become mentally and physically ill
The Oppositions promises are "blood money" thrown at problems that their classism and cliqueism are largely responsible for creating.
We need a Government of the people for the people - put in power from proper choices offered to the people - and more readily recallable by the people, when they stray from addressing the living conditions of ALL our people
That is what parliamentary democracy should really be about - creating a better environment for all the people and restoring the safety net once served by what were called the "commons" - in the days before the bourgeois and upper class "Enclosure Acts" sealed the impoverishment of the lower classes
Society - as well as individuals - will remain mentally sick and unhelped until we do that
I feel sometimes that GetUp does lose its way - applauding simplistic answers when in truth what we have is a major social problem caused by inequalities of wealth, opportunity, environment, health services, accommodation and education. I think it loses its way sometimes in middle class dreams of windmills and solar power and of people "lowering their consumption"
Vast numbers of people in Australia do not have enough "consumption" to lower at all. In fact their problem is "too little consumption" not too much. When members of GetUp - especially its leaders - talk the "lower consumption" talk I find myself wondering what - in class terms - were the kind of homes THEY came from - and if perhaps they have brought with them too many of those middle class values
So this post is a gentle reminder of what the term "grass roots" really means
Too Hard for the system
July 2nd, 2010
Roger I can't leave this one just slip by... Does it really matter when you are campaigning for change which political party brings it about.
As for the 'rest of us' - let me make this very clear - that does NOT include me. Or probably many others on this blog as I am only interested in mental health being given the funding and attention it needs.
As for labour and it's lack of ability to actually instigate any sensible priority of spending - well I don't need to raise the spending that has gone on or their budget that spends billions on things that are no where as important as real and COMPLETE health reform that includes mental health.
If the coalition are prepared to acknowledge the need for sizable funding in this area - they get my vote - and probably many other members of getup will agree.
I certainly hope that getup is not just a front for the left-wing.
Too Hard for the system
July 2nd, 2010
I find this entire assessment very amusing.
DD I suggest you might like to do some research into whether or not money effects mental illness rates - you might be surprised by the results.
It has been my experience - having had to support my son through this quagmire of a broken mental health system - that the attitude isn't just about class. The system is simply broken - no matter which government is in power.
I wonder if you truly believe that ther aren't any rich left-wing guys riding current affair coat tails.
I thought 'grass roots' meant that it's for the people - and those people you see as being 'classist' are just as effected by mental ill-health.
I agree that housing is an issue - and the homeless don't get any help from anyone - not even our government funded 'centrelink' or any other agency. And that's regardless of whether there is mental health issues.
I'm affraid that the poor attitude from health professionals toward my son was because of the drugs and drink problems - not because of class.
I thought that lobbying for change for the better was about getting results - not about taking sides - either side.
If the left are so much into looking after their 'own' and the conservatives are about looking after their 'own' and you see that mental health is caused by the conservatives - then how come so many middle class and upper class (terms that I find completely abhorant and biggotted) that suffer mental illness.
And if they are being 'elitist' as you imply - you might consider that they are probably part of the private health system and not the public funded system.
I can assure you that both are broken - completely broken. Why? because mental health is still not seen as the same as physical health in this society - nothing to do with money or 'class'.
All politicians earn the same amount and set themselves apart from the 'little' people and they all make promises they don't keep and they all support whatever agenda is going to get them the most votes - that's what politics is all about.
They are all as bad as each other - and it's the ones that provide the best policies that get my vote.
Putting money into mental health will save lives - and I don't care what 'flavour' of government does it.
If you truly want change then neither will you.
100 points for Andrew Robb for standing up publicly last year and taking time out to get treatment for a mental health issue (oh he's conservative)... and the support that his voice will give to this matter being brought before the people for a vote.
DD
July 2nd, 2010
Amongst the items that the poor in our society cannot afford is "health care" including mental health care.
But ask yourself WHY it is so expensive if not because the medical professions are privileged areas of middle and upper class activity. Specialists in medicine, including psychiatrists, have incomes reaching into the millions in some cases and, if not, always in the multiple hundreds of thousands. Almost ALL this money comes from the public purse
The "cost" of health services is a "side effect" of the sheer amount of money going into the medical professionals pockets. Where else do you think it is going? For the Coalition to pour money into "mental Health services" without radical system reform, is in fact only to pour it into the bank accounts of their voters and patrons. Rich doctors, en masse, vote Liberal
When we say that the Health service - including Mental Health services - need "fixing" we need to be talking about a review of their entire financial as well as operational structure - including income caps and fixed salaries as against "per patient fees"
But this is a question involving so much money that it is politically very dangerous for any party to try to "fix" it. Look at what has happened to President Obama in his desperate and courageous efforts to provide all Americans with proper Health care
Yes it DOES matter who is throwing the money at the problem. That money needs to build a new mental health system not increase the salaries of the already grossly over-remunerated
In the meantime - in case you hadn't noticed - the rich will continue to receive the mental health care of their choice - often internationally in hotel style accommodation
It is about class - sadly it always is. Class systems are a form of caste that ruins lives and kills people
"Grass roots" is about building from the bottom up not from the top down. It is about participation in the decision making, formation, administering and monitoring processes- especially political and economic processes. Grass roots participation requires seeking the fundamentals - the roots of problems - and building participatory structures that can deal with them - structures built on sound foundations that lie in the matters being addressed themselves and not in the interests of particular social groupings
"Grass roots" means recognising that the working base of our society is as important and as deserving of respect, dignity, and prosperity, as any imagined "higher level" or "higher class". It is about recognising greater equality of value in peoples individual lives and individual contributions
And it is about developing less obstructed paths through life for all our people a transition towards a better society and a kinder and saner world.
Cindy
July 2nd, 2010
I lost my only brother to mental illness last year when he took his own life. He was under the care of a mental health institution and on a community treatment order and the system still failed him. When is the government going to take this issue seriously and try to change it by promoting awareness and learning more about it? How many more young people have to die?
Too Hard for the system
July 2nd, 2010
Cindy I wish I could say that I don't understand - but I do. Suicide is just a senseless waste. After losing my son to suicide after repeated attempts over 5 years and no help whatsoever from the health system, and spending thousands on private psychiatrists - I feel your pain.
Something has to change - and money and a focus on early intervention is a start - but it's not enough.
Awareness, education (as you say), legal responsibility and working to rid the stigma are just some of the necessary things.
You and I and thousands of others each year have to live without our loved ones knowing that they were failed by the system.
Write to your local member - and lead the way with letting everyone you know and who will listen that mental health is illness just as physical health.
We have to make it safe and comfortable for young people to seek and accept treatment - just as they would if they had a broken foot - I truly believe that is the most important thing. Only then will any program actually work.
Love to you and your family - my heart genuinely goes out to you.
Too Hard for the system
July 3rd, 2010
DD you are correct when you say that doctors make lots of money - the specialist anyway and private mental health services are over-priced and they under-deliver.
But it's not correct to say that the 'rich' have better access because they don't.
What lies at the heart of the problem - the biggest barrier to young people getting the treatment they need goes to the heart of societal attitudes. They can only be fixed by people changing their attitudes. No 'system' can fix that. No matter how much money they have.
And to think that the 'rich' get treatment overseas in hotel-style accommodation is very very wrong. Only the extremely rich can afford such things - and they would still fight against the sufferer not wanting to feel or admit that they are ill.
Have a look at what the coalition are funding - the most important thing is the early intervention stuff. Patrick McGorry knows what he's talking about with this. If we can get help for kids when they are in their young teen years we might be able to save them.
It doesn't matter how much money you have. I spent heaps on private care for my son - and it didn't matter. Money that didn't come easy to me. The public system was just as bad. We have a mental health act to ensure that those that need treatment get it - so long as they actually want it or they don't have substance abuse problems (even if you can show that this came AFTER the mental health issues).
I had a psychiatrist at a public mental health facility tell me that he couldn't admit my son for assessment / treatment because he wouldn't cooperate - this after an attempted suicide - and years of problems and failed treatments. I actually thought that's what the mental health act was supposed to be ther for. And this after spending about 5 minutes with him while he was still under the influence of alcohol, speed and about 40 valium and while he was angry that he'd been taken to the hospital by the police and ambulance.
Then a couple of weeks later, after going through the courts and the JEO process I was told by a different psychiatrist in a different health facility that they couldn't help him while he was still drinking.
So he stopped drinking and 4 months later completed suicide.
Why? Because he thought he would be admitting that he's a 'freak' if he went to hospital and got the assessment and intensive treatment he needed, even when the offer of a private facility was there.
It has nothing to do with money - or whether you can afford private care - the entire 'system' is broken.
We have to teach children and young people that it's ok to be mentally sick - they can't help it anymore than they could getting hit by a car or having diabetes or asthma. Until they feel safe and comfortable it won't matter what 'programs' or what 'class' they come from.
I feel sorry for you that you are so narrow minded and so unaccepting that any improvement is better than none. Clearly I won't convince you because you have some pre-conceived idea regarding 'class' which I simply don't see and have never experienced. I'd have to tell you my life story for you to understand why I think that might mean something. I know what it's like to struggle to pay the mortgage and to not know where the money is going to come from for our next meal. I know what it's like to have to go to work sick because I can't affort to loose a days pay. I also know the pleasure of knowing that when I need the money for health care for my children I can find it.
Suicide is the greatest waste of life there is - because I truly believe that the vast majority are completely preventable. I know for my son that was the case, but he's gone and all I can do is support any change that might save another young boy.
Change HAS to come - it isn't an option. We can't give up no matter how long and hard the fight for that change is.
These are conversations that shouldn't be happening at all.
Adequate and appropriate health care should be readily available for life-threatening disease - mental or physical. That's what I do know.
DD
July 3rd, 2010
Obviously I cannot comment on a specific case but you mention the problem of drinking TH, by which i presume you mean alcoholism.
The handling of alcoholism is of very poor quality. For the large part it is left up to AA which - much as they would hate to hear me say it - is really a religious sect that developed out of nineteen thirties American Fundamentalism, and "steps" created by the Oxford Groups (which later became "Moral Re-armament" a Right Wing group)
AA is like any other religious group - if it works for you then it is fine and appropriate, and can be a rewarding way of life that brings your alcoholism under control
But it can be very rejecting if you do not - or cannot - ascribe to its mythology. As a result we have no facilities of any consequence dealing with day to day alcoholism. There are other treatment centres worldwide but they are extremely expensive
In a person recovering from alcoholism there is often an extreme suicide risk They need accepting fellowship and support and for many at greatest risk AA and Twelve Step groups simply do not provide it for their mentality and all AA can answer is that "you are being too analytical where surrender and acceptance are required"
We are uncovering a hornets nest in mental health treatment. The sector of Alcoholism - because of AA - is better supported than almost any other - but it still is nothing like adequate or entirely appropriate. At best for many it is a transitional point to finding alternative answers
AA in fact has a very low success rate - about the same as not using AA - those who recover within it statistically it is claimed would likely have been those who recovered outside it
When I talk of greater facilities available for the rich I am not talking of simple private health cover - although you do get better treatment if you have it. I am talking of the global informal network of privately funded treatment centres
And yes I am indeed talking about the extremely rich - the five to ten million and vastly upward group that runs our Governments, our institutions - our media - and so on
Until you spot them,, NOTHING make sense and you think that problems are fixable with "greater understanding" and "greater efficiency" and "deeper public concern"
Once you do spot them ALL your questions are answerable. To take another example from a totally different area:
Look at how the extremely rich diverted the Climate Change debate - at how they used their media influence to counter the findings of tens of thousands of highly respected scientists and of a multitude of major scientific institutions
They exist - and they are the Health Service problem too. Their accumulating wealth is what is missing to run a proper system - for it is the wealth of society that they have accumulated - since the time of Enclosures and of slavery and of disenfranchisement of the populace. It is our wealth - the wealth we need to build a dignified society that they still accumulate
And if you still think I'm wrong - listen to them scream and destabilise Government over a non renewable resources(mining) profit tax.
Do you really think they will promote a public mental health system when they already have a private one adequate for their needs?
Dream on! They'll promote more fees for overpaid professionals because these are their fellow institution members - the people who vote the right way - who exercise the right influence - and who are often family members.
Cindy
July 3rd, 2010
Unfortunately there is little understanding of mental illness and thus it's very hard to help someone in that situation. Even harder to help when they refuse to let you. I spent the last 3 yrs of my brother's life trying to prevent his suicide and was not successful. When he finally got taken into the system I thought he was finally going to get help but things went from bad to worse. Within a few months of being on treatment he took his life.
The biggest problem with mentally ill people sometimes is they don't accept help because they don't think they have a problem, or they do not think anybody can help them. My brother thought his problems were supernatural, so how the hell can any human beat that?
DD
July 3rd, 2010
The supernatural and occultist delusions common to psychosis are fed by our religious culture, which is stuck and cruelly maintained by such as the Papacy, in a medieval and Byzantine time warp.
Our religious theology is itself based on very archaic superstitious models dating from Ancient Egypt, the Ancient Far East, and Mesopotamia
Ancient Astrology, oracles, and fortune telling survive in thinly disguised New Age forms promoted by mass media
Martin Luther's Reformation failed to properly reform theology in that it replaced tradition and Church authority with a superstitious literalism in relation to scripture
Our religions have let us down, and we are in a theological crisis. Religious Conservatism - largely with the patronage of the extreme rich and powerful, dominates much of the body politic and of our social structures and mores. Where it is involved in mental health support, it is the Conservative religious tradition that predominates - through groups such as AA. An Archaic Theism survives unreformed and it can make illness worse and recovery and coping more difficult for many people. Theism rejects the non believer! Rejectionis a form of alienation - and alienation first isolates and then kills
One can see one extreme in the dressing up," theatrical" version that is Catholic Italy - In America we see the "plain clothes version" - But it is the same phenomena - the political manipulation of society through manipulation of spirituality. To this is added the promotion of alternate occultisms through mass media
It seems to me that the crisis of mental health in many people is the brain reaching for sanity and not finding it anywhere. We live in a society so unreal and so inegalitarian that it sends our children and ourselves crazy in manners with which that same society has no mechanism to cope with or to treat and comfort.
The religious institutions deserve much of the blame for this mess. Despite the fact that scholarship for over two hundred years has painted a very different picture, we are stuck with the pre- Medieval theistic mythology. One either accepts that or rejects all of it. Both actions place us within psychic vacuums, in which poverty and trauma make us even more vulnerable to breakdown
There are modern thinkers and theologians such as Bishop Spong. Despite public acclaim they are derided and attacked by the traditionalists who despise progress
And so the spiritual structure of our cosmos disintegrates.
We need to make a fresh start - a Reformation in both our theological nature and in our secular politics and administration. We do not have successful models to base this on. We need to start from scratch
In the meantime those coping with mental illness must maintain a firm basis in reality themselves - If our education system and our social spirituality fail to bring our children up in reality then we must - as parents - do it ourselves
Illness needs reality - not fantasy - as the standard it seeks to regain - To try to train a person to cope with that which made him ill is not enough. in physical illness one tries not to send a person with TB back to damp and cold environments or an asthmatic back into an area of high pollen and crop spraying
So it is with mental illness - no illness is purely physical - no illness is purely mental. All have elements of both, even in terms of adjustment. To help our mentally and physically disadvantaged we must reform all of society - as AA would put it "mentally , physically and spiritually" - its economic, political , social and class structures
All else is just wasted time - wasted effort Worse still it will be throwing money at those who already have it
Cindy
July 3rd, 2010
Yes unfortunately from what I have seen there are usually 2 groups whe it comes to the mentally ill. The ones like my brother who think they have been chosen by God to do something, and then there is those who are not religios but think they are secret agents working for the CIA or ASIO or some other group. The biggest problem is that you cannot tell then it's not true, because they really believe it.
DD
July 3rd, 2010
What i think we need is a society that does not so often validate their delusions. Delusions - however irrational - are still created like a jigsaw puzzle from pieces that our environment supplies. And if those pieces are not themselves sanely based how is the delusional person to see through this doubly irrational picture that their brain creates? - and then where are the facilities to create a supportive environment? Sometimes in their illness they are correctly perceiving what is around them even when they are unable to properly analyse it or cope without paranoia or neurosis
I have a friend who is a successful schizophrenic. He copes well - balancing his medication - recognising when he is going off track and seeking immediate help when it happens
He lives at home and is a fine painter. I have a picture of his on my wall. It is beautiful because his perception sees what others miss. It is a simple beach scene
These people have so much to contribute that, properly treated and loved and respected, they are not a burden but a benefit to a varied and imaginative society. In this friend of mine is a quite unusual gentleness and kindness - and indeed patience
I am lucky to live in an area where eccentricity is unusually tolerated and respected - even treasured. We live a little closer to the natural environment too. I have friends who need support who are able to keep pets and chickens and who have birds knocking on their doors for pieces of cheese and possums in their garden sheds -living things they can relate to when all else fails - and hobbies they can take pride in and be admired for
I may sound a little harsh on this line but I so often see mentally ill people who - above all - are desperate for involvement in life. Instead so often society merely increases their alienation.
That is wrong - terribly wrong - any society that cannot see the equality built into healthy relationships between individuals has failed. Any society that believes we can train anyone to be happy in a rat cage of a home - for that is what we too often build - is sicker than the patient
Too Hard for the system
July 3rd, 2010
I guess that's my point.... mental illness is unseen - and that's where his thought pattern probably came from.
The 'system', even if you do get them treatment, often doesn't provide the kind of treatment they need. Drugs are only part of it. We need more research and better supporting therapy and early intervention. You shouldn't have had to fight for 3 years - that's ridiculous. Just as the 15 yr fight I had was ridiculous.
With early intervention - as young teenagers - or maybe even younger - and education and destigmatisation of the situation - that's the only way to help them understand their condition and to accept the help that they need.
You are not at fault here - I know the pain and anguish of fighting to save him from himself - but know that you are not at fault.
The unseen nature of the condition is the cause of the stigma and the belief that it's not an 'illness' - whether it's supernatural, spiritual or even demon possession - or just that it's part of their personality and they are a freak or a failure. With better education and more community awareness and acceptance and appropriate treatment this false belief can be reduced - I have to believe it's possible.
Hang in there - and know that your love was one of the highlights in his life. He knows that you love him and know that he loves you too. That's the only comfort you can have.
My daughter was also an amazing support for my son and they loved each other even when things were difficult between them because of his illness.
I have to believe that things will change - and wish so dearly that these changes that are now being talked about were brought in 5 or 6 years ago - or earlier - so my son would still be here too.
There are some great support groups around for survivors of suicide - hopefully you have hooked up with one - if not - find one - they are a great support - just talking to someone else who truly understands can help.
Cindy
July 3rd, 2010
Yes it has taken me a long time to realise that I couldn't stop the inevitable. I didn't believe it at first but now I can see that it's not a fight I was able to win unfortunately. That just makes it all the more frustrating!
DD
July 3rd, 2010
If you acted out of love - and I am sure you did, then you won. Success as a person is not always rewarded as we might wish but that does not diminish our humanity - our effort - or ultimately, in my experience, our joy in a task we did well
There is always regret. But that is part of being a successfully loving and compassionate person. The more we love, the more pain from time to time we must feel. But I find it is worth the price.
The combination of the two is what makes us strive to build a better environment for others. Even pain has its place
Sian P.C.
July 3rd, 2010
For over 20 years I have watched the mental health care sytem fail vulnerable people time and time again.The Burdekin report in 92 did NOTHING to motivate our governemnent to take decisive and practical action .As a result we still have parents dealing with suicidal teenagers and police resorting to bullets on a 15 year old boy. I have watched in dismay as my family have called the police on my brother.It is heart breaking and wrong.He is psychotic NOT a criminal. Sian
Too Hard for the system
July 4th, 2010
Sian I hear you.... The police are NOT the ones who should be dealing with this. And I'm sure you understand when the health system lets the parents down and the kid gets violent and out of control - where else do they go. The police were involved in our home from when he was about 11 or 12. When he was about 14 I tried Child Safety - because they had established and confirmed that he had been abused by the father and his charming wife - nothing - just told to call the police.
Some of the police were good and could see that there was more to what was going on with him - but largely he was seen as a behavioural problem. Over the years it was the police who often gave me the best tips on where to go to for help - and some of these were good - and they included the JEO process and the psychiatrists - but in the end it was the health system that failed him.
And the juvenille court system is a joke - rather than making referrals to places where he HAS to go for help - they just fine him (because he was working from 15) and nothing more. The court has the power to enforce compliance with medical care - even through a psychologist - and I spoke with the prosecutor every time he was in childrens court - nothing.... absolutely nothing.
These poor kids struggle enough inside themselves without having the additional pressure of the police and court system.
We need a COMPLETE view of CARE - and that doesn't just include the mental health system.... but without the other agencies getting the identification of 'at risk' right - we will continue to have this problem. Even then when someone hits the mental health system those professionals are responsible for mental health - not the police and not the courts.
I found the police reaction to my son was completely different after a couple attendances to his threats and attempts at suicide. They put a note on his file and not only did we get top priority callout if we needed them - they always sent 2 cars and were well aware that he was mentally unstable. They came to help rather than just throw him in jail. Most were great - there's still the 'gung-ho' one or two who don't seem to care.
My advice (for what it's worth) your family need to make sure that the police know what your concerns are - there doesn't need to be any specific clear diagnosis - if they know then they can react accordingly.
fyredrake99
July 5th, 2010
As a mental health clinician , Consumer and sometime carer I feel the need to add my voice to the drive to get mental health services funded adequately in this country. However a word of caution to all of you who have so generously embraced the call. There are may services already in place , they need to be enhanced , adequately resourced with personel and funding ,not, replaced by a fragmented system of delivery and overseen by people who have little knowledge of mental ill health. Beware funding directed to specific specialty services which leave less glamorous services negected. Some of the proposals look great but seem to have been given very little thought and are driven by the medical lobby e.g.where is the government going to get all these mental health nurses for GP practices ? Nursing is in crisis, and mental health nursing in particular is having major difficulty attracting staff.Could this mean that nurses with little knowledge or understanding are going to be employed in these positions or are the state systems going to be denuded of staff? Does anybody actually understand what our under-resouced , overworked state mental health services provide ? I am not disputing the wonderful and necessary work done by EPPIC , Orygen and other specialist services, or what is provided by NGOs ,nor would I want to deny them significant increases in funding. But there seems to be no recognition of the struggles and desperation of a decreasing number of clinians who everyday try to provide services to people with a mental illness. As a Consumer I thank you fand GETUP or your wonderful support, but take care don't let the politicians throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
Too Hard for the system
July 6th, 2010
I hear what you are saying - but I have to say a couple of things:
1. the lack of funding is not the issue for the client 2. the lack of resources is not the issue for the client 3. the lack of funding and resources is NOT the reason why people are being turned away and inadequate and inappropriate care is being given - this is just a smoke screen - why? because it happens in the private sector too 4. the real problem is a lack of acceptance by the community - and that includes clinicians - that mental illness can and does KILL people 5. a lack of acceptance by clinicians of their responsibilities to their clients and a complete lack of legal accountability 6. the early identification and prevention progams - however they are implemented are vital if we want to reduce the impact on those with mental ill-health in the long term. you have to start somewhere 7. we have clinicians who refuse to enact the Mental Health Act - and that has nothing to do with resources or funding
It has been my experience - that if the appropriate care is provided then there would be less strain on the under-funded under-resourced system.
I do agree that the money has to be wisely spent - and the government is being led by Patrick McGorry and others like him (the mental health organisations). Not all of what they are intending is fool-proof - but anything is better than no change - given the abismal state of the system as it stands.
The major thing missing in the 'system' is the acceptance that if a patient dies because of mi-diagnosis, inappropriate treatment, or a refusal to diagnose at all - the clinicians should be legally accountable. If a medical doctor sent a patient home with a broken foot and told them to take it easy it would be ok - and it wasn't that patient would have a right to legal remedy - not so in the case of mental health.
The major thing that the community MUST do is work to provide an environment of acceptance - to make it safe and comfortable for those suffering - especially in the early stages as young people - to seek help and treatment. This is vital to saving lives. As a community we fail these people every day.
Debate over funding and how things will be done has to happen at the senior levels of government - not just between the politicians - and my years of working in government tells me that this is how it normally happens. As a clinician you have the ability to be a member of the associations and provide input up the line to your senior management. I do hope you are doing that. We are relying on you all to do so.
But please don't hide behind the smoke screen of lack of funding and resources and admit the fundamental break-down of the system and failure to provide adequate care to the ill.
fyredrake99
July 6th, 2010
I am not only a clinician I am a Consumer and my work is in Consumer Advocacy. I also represent Consumers on several state level advisory bodies. There is not any clinician I know that would deny that mental illness kills people. Not only through suicide but through limited access to decent physical health care, poor nutrition and lack of appropriate accommodation,to mention a few contributing factors . In fact far fewer mentally ill people die by suicide than die by preventable diseases. General hospitals don't think that they should have to treat people with mental illness , GPs avoid them like the plague and society in general would rather they disappeared. One of the fundamental problems of mental health is its dominance by the medical model of psychiatry and the models of care being proposed by both sides of govenment are going to perpetuate this narrow and problematic system. At least psychiatrists with the state systems are subject to the governance of those systems unlike private practitioners. If a GP sends someone home with a broken foot, because of a failure to utilise the diagnostic tool available , the yes, it is an issue of negligence. Tell me how you x-ray a mind. My psychiatrist has to rely on me to tell him what is happening. If I am suicidal and choose not to tell him or to lie and there are no signs to corroborate my suicidality , how is he or any other clinician to know. Everyday clinicans are faced with people who present with a multiplicity of symptoms which may or may not be indicative of a mental illness. There are no MRIs, CT scans, blood tests to confirm a diagnosis. A picture is built based on clusters of symptoms categorised over time. Not a very exact science but these are the tools that clinians have to use. I believe very strongly on the need for early intervention services ,rehabilitation and recovery projects which will keep people in their communities , which will maintain their skills and support them to gain ones they don't have , ones which will give people with mental illness dinity and a place in our society. These may be provided by a a variety of government and non government resources. As a Consumer , Carer and Clinican I have a vested interest in a mental health system which meets the needs of its Consumers and work I with many people committed to that ideal. Lack of funding and resources is not a smokescreen it is a reality. Mental health is a political football. I also have significant experience of the way in which government policy is made and first hand experience in the machinations of treasury. We Consumers are relying on you to understand "saving lives' in not only about the prevention of suicide
DD
July 6th, 2010
In my state - and I believe in all states in Australia there are major problems relating to the operation of the Rule of Law
Despite generally having perfectly adequate legislation it is extremely difficult to persuade people, supposedly "in authority," to stop hiding behind imaginary discretionary and arbitrary powers that they do not in fact possess
If enforcement of a law actually results in a fine then such a law may well be over-enforced but where there is the likelihood of no financial benefit to the enforcing agent, the matter is quite likely to end up in the too hard basket or in some areas used as a source for soliciting bribes. "Pay the money and we will/won't enforce the law"
We see this again and again with local government matters. It is the devil of a job to get Council officials to use their powers when they should but do not want to - or are getting bribed to do otherwise - and there is no proper mechanism for dealing with these problems, which effectively create a corrupted invisible Government within our democratic system
What "Too Hard" points to in his post is a replication of this pattern in the field of medicine. The Act concerned is the relevant Mental Health Act which is arbitrarily enforced or ignored. The "reward" to the negligent agent is "less trouble" and "less work". So the mentally ill end up dead, destroying their carer's lives, or in jail.
Citizens have a right to be able to depend on the laws that Parliament passes. This deliberate undermining of legislation - particularly protective legislation such as the mental health acts should be dealt with - if appropriate through deregistration for failing to act in accordance with the offenders duty of care and negligence in a manner that imperils life and security
Of course the system might well collapse if everyone did his job according to the letter of the law. But at least the scale of the problems could no longer be ignored
Many years ago my wife who was having terrible problems with her family was given a piece of advice by a trusted friend
"Don't cope", she said. Nothing will be done about your difficulties until you STOP coping.
nuff said?
Too Hard for the system
July 6th, 2010
DD - spot on!!!
And then they claim that it's because of a lack of funding or resources.
I get that - I get that there isn't enough resources and funding.... but that's not my issue or that of my sons. And this isn't really the case because the failure happened in the private sector too.... where I was paying... and beds were available in the private hospital...
Not only do these poor kids not feel comfortable because of the stigmatisation of being hospitalised in a 'loony bin'. Even if we could get them there - but the system failed to implement the act and we got nowhere.
And this wasn't a one-off - this was repeatedly over 5 years between the ages of 13 and 19.
So the conversation I had with my solicitor goes like this - there's no criminal charges to answer so you would have to take civil action. That's not going to be worth your while - because you haven't suffered a loss. Loosing your son hasn't cost you anything financially.. so there's no case.
Like you said DD - if I was to suffer a break-down and be unable to work or something like that then I would have a case.
I'm not going to throw my life away on such a ridiculous venture and the off-chance that I might have a chance in a court against what seems to be an unwinable fight.
In my research I can't find one single case where a psychiatrist has been held legally responsible - that wasn't overturned in the court of appeal anywhere in Australia.
However, research shows that the single most common cause for medical malpractice suits in the US is following suicide.
Interesting. Now I'm not suggesting that we go down that path. I'm just suggesting that they should be legally responsible and would prefer to see them deregulated and struck off or have sanctions placed on their ability to practice rather than any financial payment anyway. Or just have the ability to do so - and see it enacted to show them that this is the way it is. This might bring about the necessary change in attitude toward young people and it might make them think twice before turning them away or experimenting with drugs that could be the wrong ones.
So from where I sit the mental health system is a free-for-all - and completely out of control. There is no foundation because the legislation isn't relied on and doesn't provide the protection it should to the ill, and society still thinks that they are 'freaks'.
How is a young person supposed to navigate this to a positive outcome on their own???
Too Hard for the system
July 6th, 2010
That is - without the help of their mental health clinician and the law.
Too Hard for the system
July 6th, 2010
Well that is where the problem sits. The clinicians aren't prepared to make a decision and be responsible for it. The mental health act in Qld includes involuntary hospitalisation for the purpose of diagnosis - so how is that supposed to happen when the diagnosis hasn't yet been made.
As for protecting the rights of patients - by not taking those steps with someone who is a threat to themselves - to allow for more accurate diagnosis you are failing to protect their rights - they have a right to adequate and appropriate care - whether they are prepared to acknowledge it or not (given this is part of the mental health condition - to not be able to make rational choices about what is best for them). I personally believe it's better to hold 10 people for that short-term assessment that don't really need it - than to miss the one that does.
But I guess that's coming from a parent who has needlessly lost a child. A child who suffered in agony and torment for most of his short 19 years. Not just the suicide risk - but his mental torment was never helped. He was left to struggle on his own.
I am not talking about detaining people for their lives - that's a ridiculous statement - unless that's what they need, and I'd hope that with appropriate treatment this wouldn't be necessary. And early intervention would also help this - if they can be assessed early and treatments provided then maybe they wouldn't end up so debilitated.
More accurate assessment will allow for appropriate treatment - and if having a patient in care is what is required then there should be appropriate facilities. Leaving them in the community without the appropriate support is another source of problems for the mentally ill.
I actually disagree that diagnosis isn't possible. Regardless of what label you put on someone's 'condition' it's up to the psychiatrist to make an appropriate assessment,and provide approriate care. If they aren't capable of doing that then they shouldn't be in that business because they are putting their patients lives at risk, and patients rely on them to do so.
Regardless of the suicides that are prevented - there are too many that could have been and aren't.
When, as in my sons case, a patient shows long-term problems, from a very young age and they display suicidal ideology, supported by repeated attempts, for more than 5 years - surely any reasonable practitioner should take this seriously - instead of turning him away.
In fact at the age of 14 after one attempt and constant talking and planning to suicide because of the constant torment he was in - I should have been able to make that decision for him - but by law I wasn't able to. If it was a physical condition I could have. Another anomoly between physical health and mental health. How is society going to be able to accept that there's no difference when the laws actually support the difference.
Then there's the repeated rejection because of drugs and alcohol - even when it can be clearly displayed that the problems were there before the substance abuse.
Addictions are in themselves a mental health issue - yet they are treated like the scum of society and expected to deal with these issues without any real support, and spend more time in the courts and possibly in jail than they do getting assistance from where it's needed
That's another topic that I won't even touch on.
The early intervention stuff is aimed at helping these kids. Have a look at how many there are - just go for a walk through the streets at night. Sufferers who are struggling with addictions, homelessness and in jail. Why? because they haven't had appropriate care.
Things have to change - this is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE and so long as we buy into your arguments things won't change and they won't get any better.
I've had a lot to do with people with mental illnesses and I have never heard a positive outcome from our failed system. Either they are treated too restrictively with their rights completely violated, forced to take medications that don't work (and in one case was the cause of another condition), or they are ignored and rejected.
We, the consumers, look to the professionals to know what they are doing and to come up with appropriate solutions - and if they don't then they are failing.
If the law is wrong then it needs to be changed - and that should be happening - that's the responsiblity, once again, of the practitioners to be advising the government to draft new legislation.
PAF
July 9th, 2010
MY goodness TH you never met anyone with a positive outcome from our failed system!!! I suggest you start making contact with a few of the Consumers who are getting themselves involved in reforming our mental health systems. Most have fascinating stories of "RECOVERY" to tell. It is not that they are without criticism of the shortcomings of the services available but they are determined to do what they can to make the systems work. You know one of the problems of our society is that we are pathologising everyone that doesn't fit; if you are in gaol, homeless or addicted you must be mentally ill , so the services get stretched and stretched and stretched.And a relatvely small group of people is somehow meant to manage all of this. I notice that you refer to yourself as a Consumer does this mean that you experience mental illness? If so then I urge you to join a Consumer organisation , if you don't have a mental illness join a Family and Carer organisation In NSW,CAG www.nswcag.org is the Consumer peak body and ARAFMI is the peak body for Carers. Meet people who have had positive outcomes and are determined to get that for others
PAF
July 7th, 2010
Your comment
DD
July 7th, 2010
Suicide is rarely, if ever, caused entirely by a defect in the victim. Life TH is very much about our ability to cope, and a class divided society makes that very difficult for the vulnerable to do. Class is about constantly ongoing rejection and alienation - and rejection and alienation are key burdens of the mentally ill.
Australia has a myth perpetrated on it by media controlled by the rich. The myth is one of universal mateship and "classlessness" It is a lie - an appalling lie
Travel around our major cities - for example go to Mount Druitt in Sydney or Sydenham or areas like St Peters or Redfern and then go and have a look at Kirribili and Tarronga Park and Vaucluse etc. Play golf at a regional suburban club and then seek entry or enquire about membership at clubs like the Royal Sydney etc
We live in distinct worlds defined by class - whether you like it or not. So long as the rulership and administrative power in both Government and institutions remains in one class the interests served will be in that class too - and the rest can go to hell. Why pretend otherwise.
You might find that truth unpalatable. The poor certainly do - day after day after day. They know there is no reform possible through tinkering with the social system - it has to change totally to bring them relief especially, in matters of "welfare" - for welfare is largely about addressing the effects of poverty - sometimes a sop handed out to head off threatened reform, insurrection or even revolution - none of which I am advocating.
Oh it's a lovely comforting theory people who believe in tinkering without radical social change ascribe to - Climate change can be prevented by changing to flourescent lights, installing a solar water heater and PV cells - or by using windmills
Fossil fuels can be reduced in usage by everyone driving less and using bicycles
People can learn to be "nicer to each other" - and problems of physical and mental health can be solved by ordinary people just "understanding". If they "truly understood" they would put it all right
Don't feed that myth " It gets us nowhere, "TH". The perception of reality has nothing to do with a communist "ideology" - which seems to be part of the myth you have swallowed.
it is about seeing things as they are - in all their horror. It is about stepping outside our own delusions inherited from family and our elders as children and nurtured all our lives by an "unfree media" and in many cases a church that has lost its way
The rich in our society KNOW what is wrong TH - the product is in their property portfolios and their bank balances. Health is partially about being ill as an individual and partially about living in a society in need of reform. As I said before should you send a TB patient back to a damp and cold house?
Should you send a recovered alcoholic back to live in a pub? - of course not - and yet somehow we expect the mentally ill to cope with the environment that often made their illness unmanageable in the first place
The suicide rate is appalling. It tells that things are radically wrong socially and economically. Try understanding that and making it your starting point
Then we might just get somewhere putting it right and relieving the suffering. Anything else is pointless theatre
Too Hard for the system
July 8th, 2010
Just to clarify why we lived below the poverty line - it wasn't because my father didn't work - he was in fact an intelligent and educated man (equivalent to a masters degree) - he was a minister of religion - he dedicated his whole life to helping the underprivileged and vulnerable in society. He could have chosen to study law or medicine or something that would have made a lot of money - but instead he earnt very little so that he could help others.
My brother is in the same field - currently working as a chaplain in a Qld high school - he survives on donations from people. And one of those people that you would consider 'filthy rich' provide him with housing and substanital financial support - so that he doesn't have to waste his time fund raising - and he's free to spend more time working with the vulnerable teenagers at his school.
I know another guy who you would also consider 'filthy rich' who spends all of his spare time working with the homeless - he was himself a homeless alcoholic living on the streets of Sydney for a couple of years. He pulled his life together because of the support he received and now gives substantially to others.
Not all of those in society that you class as 'rich' fit your insults and any such generalisations are not based on fact.
Clearly you don't really know very much about the people you are insulting - or how much they individually give back to society - even after paying massive taxes and receiving no support from the government.
Kindness to your fellow man has to start with you - and that includes showing respect for everyone and the choices that they make.
So - I would suggest that you think before you start throwing stones - you don't live in a glass house either.
DD
July 9th, 2010
I spot a little AA thinking here - Step 12 - it is part of the recovery program - a questionable one too I might add. Fine when it works but blaming of the victim when it doesn't - and statistically speaking arguably a failure. So I don't actually get your point here.
You could argue that a self replicating program also replicates error. Mental health tends to rely too much on such support programs as 12 step programs because they cost nothing. Hardly surprising they originate in America where public health is a disgrace. Sometimes they are all that people have got - they try hard - but they are sadly not what is really needed - and sometimes they confuse recovery from religion with the causes of mental health and addiction
Your point about "massive taxes" is also interesting. Isn't caring supposed to be sharing? - and that means "distribution of wealth" _ that is what "sharing "is
If the rich want to stand in line handing out meals in a homeless centre thats fine.
But far more can be done by making a larger contribution out of massive wealth by writing a cheque - and remember some of those cheques could be written for billions of dollars - even tens of billions of dollars - some of which came as charitable donations from the public purse to bail out the already rich for bringing the capitalist system almost to its knees
Sorry if it hurts, truly - but that is where it is at
DD
July 9th, 2010
Whilst I do not particularly object to you personalising your attack on me TH I fell restrained by the circumstances from responding in kind and will therefore try to remain at a theoretical level
Clearly you do not understand my application of the terms "rich" and "middle class". You seem to be drawing the line at a very low economic level and then identifying your circumstances as placing you within it and - thereby- by your logic - identifying with the vastly wealthier
Anyone who is working even on the national average wage, can probably afford Private medical insurance. I do and I can assure any reader that treatment on private medical assurance is vastly better in most cases - often without waiting lists, and with wider choice of specialists and treatment options
But I am talking of a level way beyond this. That people live at this level would not matter - it would be "good luck to them" were it not for the fact that they live in a state of constantly denying the means of access to all mankind to what they take for granted - and it is getting worse. The division is widening to a chasm. These same people so dominate our democracy that it is within their power to make, promote, or force the necessary changes - They do not
All the kindness to men that I might hand out - which I might add we as a family do - cannot rectify a political, economic and social problem that lies within the stratification of society. And you seem keen TH to deny me THAT contribution! - that of helping to change it.
A religious background once led me to believe simple kindness and "good thinking" could - but I came to realise through bitter experience that the solutions proposed by religion - including charity and prayer - do little or nothing to rectify structural problems albeit charity assists individuals
I find the suggestion that someone holding billions of capital is "giving back to our society" utterly ludicrous - The truth is they got where they are by taking from our society. And when it comes to running an economic system and failing - as many just have - they are the first to hold out the hand for charity - charity in the billions of dollars - to bail them out. We all just forked out for them - worldwide!
It is time to stop the excuses - stop "trying" to persuade government to give us a better mental health service and better health services - demand them! Demand an end to the chain of suffering and death. People live in misery because we allow the socially unacceptable to continue.
Australia is a country that has less of a social democratic tradition than is believed here. There is no comparison between such as our ALP and parties such as the Social Democratic Parties of Europe. I lived in Willy Brandts Germany - when I first arrived there from the UK my mouth dropped open at the quality of life enjoyed under the SDP. And it was the same throughout most of the Social Democrat run nations of Europe
Not here! - Here our Labor forces often become - through corruption - a part of the problem. And I say that as a person living in NSW. We have no great Labour political tradition to speak of. It is dead
We need to get back to the basics - the grass roots. We need to define the "commons" - the area of minimum expectation a citizen should have - and it should be VASTLY higher than it currently is. Only on that base should greater wealth be possible and allowable.
I'll close with a verse from MY religious background to remind you just how much Christianity has been and remains a tool of social division
"The rich man in his castle The poor man at his gate God made them High of Lowly And gave them their estate All things Bright and Beautiful etc"
Yuk! see what I mean. The social rot runs right through - and poor welfare - - poor health services is OUR god given estate! We need action NOT prayer! Less "charity for the rich" and more even wealth and service availability distribution
PAF
July 9th, 2010
Both DD & TH have valid points unfortunately DD your 's are lost in rants about the "upper classes". There is not one mental health system that is broken. Mental health services are delivered through a whole range of different agencies and constantly there are efforts to mend a fundamentally impossible process . Statistically there has actually been little increase in suicide deaths per head of population since the 1930's . Death of a loved one especialy a child must be terrible experience more so when that person has chosen to end their own life. However I am constantly amazed that people hold the belief that the "mental health system" could have stopped someone from doing so. As a person who suffers from severe clinical depression I have in the past attempted to kill myself. I did have contact with services , was and still am more than capable of getting help but I had hidden how unwell I was and and had given no indicators of my misery. I didn't plan my attempt. It was spontaneous and reactive , fortunately for me I was found. My mind told me, I was such a burden to my family and friends they would be better of if I was dead. There are many reasons why people choose to end their lives ; some because they suffer from a depressive illness, some because they have a psychotic illness (such as schizophrenia or bi polar disorder)Some because their experience of life has been so filled with misery they can conceive of no other solution. For some a desperate cry for help goes wrong. A service may prevent someone from dying on a particular occasion but if a person is determined to die they will find a way and no amount of intervention will prevent it.
The rich are not responsible for mental illness , in fact there are just as many rich prople who have a mental illness as there are poor with one . Rich people can more readily access some forms of care but they don't necessarily provide a better outcome. There are social determinants of mental illness but the rich don't cause them and much of what you point to DD, poor housing, low income etc are consequences not causes. Stigma often prevents people ,rich or poor from seeking help and the results can be devestating. Yes there was a time when the churches ALL believed and preached that a person's place in life was dictated by God. But have a look around at who are the leading drivers for social reform. I grew up with very little in material goods, in a large family with unconditional love,but being poor didn't cause my mental illness, genetics did, and being rich wouldn't made any difference. So let focus on what really matters here.
DD
July 9th, 2010
What matters most here is an individual such as yourself, PAF. My discussions here may appear only theoretical but are based on my own personal experiences, on what I perceive can be fixed in the interests of the vast majority of people.
We cannot tell what the effect of a satisfactory social environment might be when we do not have one. We can however recognise that the consequences of illness can be greatly ameliorated, and we can also clearly perceive WHY such facilities are unavailable for all our people. For example "sleeping out" will always occur. Homelessness should never occur.
I want to see the material aspects of misery relieved. I want every Australian to have the opportunity to be safe, cared for, nourished and warm. And I do believe that is perfectly achievable, and that I can contribute to that process by taking the argument outside the self defeating present confines that restrain it. I say it again, unrepentantly, the primary material issue is class!
I want to see illness reduced to being a "medical problem" and then to see it properly addressed as that. I am not a doctor so I cannot work on the medical front line, although I believe my family has done, and does, its share of social work. But that is a private matter I won't discuss. I can press for political, social, theological and economic change - for the changes that will make the illness a little less disruptive and destructive and facilitate the availability of treatment and cure. But I cannot do that and remain stuck intellectually in the present social norms. For they are simply wrong.
What I state here are the conclusions I have come to after living sixty odd years on two continents, and having family in a third. It took many years for me as a person brought up in a family that endured a century of poverty, had lost the older generation in the Great War, and from TB, was born in rented rooms etc to work up to my own present moderately comfortable level far from my pace of birth
But I learnt on the way where things really stand. If it shocks people sometimes that I speak "in the clear" then I am sorry - I felt that way when I was wised up from my own (Fundamentalist) background
If we all sat together in one comfortable room and chatted over these topics at grass roots level, we would probably compassionately agree with each other. If we saw a fellow stumble we would all rush to help. But what we are talking about on this blog is HOW we can reform a system that desperately needs reforming and attitudes that need to change.
Most people never see the artificiality of the construct within which they live. Sometimes it takes a breakdown in which the mind reaches for sanity to get through that perception barrier. I speak from the other side of that road block, from the kind of perception that remembers that even psychoanalysis was once a largely political movement - that sanity has to be fought for and isn't universally present even amongst those we would not classify as ill. I think you have to be stark staring mad to be filthy rich and yet witness so much suffering without wanting to share and to create reform to relieve it
My fraternal greetings to you. Thank you for adding to my knowledge - all of you. I think this discussion now may be becoming a little diversive. I have made the point I intended to make
Drake's Drum
PAF
July 9th, 2010
Your comment
PAF
July 9th, 2010
Actually Rembrandt lost his mistress to breat cancer and he was destitute. Van Gogh probably suffered from porphyria , a physical condition which causes symptoms similar to madness (King George III suffered from it) and although he spent time in an asylum probably didn't actually ahave a mental illness , as such. But their art Wonderful. Yes such art is a ludicrous price, and the money probably could be better spent but it is our to spend.
Jaded
July 14th, 2010
I am a 45 year old woman and have suffered from Bipolar Disorder since I was 14. I am perhaps one of the lucky ones as I respond well to medication and if you met me you would not be aware that I have a mental illness. Viewing this clip by Patrick McGorry there are some very pertinent issues the one that I feel most strongly about is that my life has been thwarted by mental illness. I ask myself just what my life would be like if I didn't have a mental illness and I find myself envying those who are mentally well. During one of my hospitalisations I was regaled with tales of the inhumane psychiatric institutions in Europe a place I wanted to travel to. Consequently I have restricted most of my travels within Australia. I have lost friends and my husband ended our marriage when I became unwell. I live in a regional area and it seems that there is only help available if you are in the psychotic stage of the illness and then only if there is a bed available in the psychiatric ward of the hospital. But if you are in a horrible black depression you are left alone as any antidepressants can put you in a state of mania. The stigma of having a mental illness is intense and it is difficult to tell people. I was seeing a psychiatrist for some time but as I was considered "well" my psychiatric care has now been placed in the hands of my GP. I really don't know who to reach for in the mental health industry for couselling or emotional help as it really doesn't seem to be there
Too Hard for the system
July 14th, 2010
Jaded - I'm not a practitioner or anything - just a Mum who lost her son to suicide after being turned away again and again by the mental health system - both private and public He was only 19 and his first attempt was at 14 - and had problems long before that. He was clearly unwell - but there was always an 'excuse', and because he bought into the stigma he'd do anything to get the help he knew he needed except go to a 'looney bin'... so we never found out what was really wrong and he was never given appropriate care.
All I can suggest is that you take action yourself. At the present time your GP should be able to provide you with a 'mental health care plan' (at least in Qld they can) - and that provides 12 free appointments with a psychologist.
Otherwise - Is there a support group or something - there has to be somewhere you can get constant support without paying the earth.
Also - please look at www.bringchange2mind.org and know that there are many many people who fully get that mental health isn't something to be ashamed of or embarrassed by.
Don't stop talking to people if you need them - there is help out there and you have the internet - try beyondblue or sane if you can't find anyone else.
Come back and let us know how you go.
Share it with others who might be reading but not game to take part in this blog.
DD
July 15th, 2010
Never give up. By placing demands on a faulty system you help force them to bring about vital changes. You have to remember that doctors too are often not very bright and get obsessed with silly ideas about particular patients - and some of them are quite mad!
By a piece of happenstance I came to realise that some practices use "codes" - often a letter and a number - on patient files, to "tip off" their colleagues. This means that if you aren't getting satisfactory assistance from a practice you should sometimes go to an entirely independent one and start again
You are not a nuisance when you demand proper care. You are a crusader who is helping force changes that may help or even save other people from suffering. If a doctor gets unreasonably grumpy with you - wait until you are out of the surgery and say "Well he's having a bad day today - I don't have to"
Then go into a cafe - order a cup of tea or a coffee and a treat to go with it. Sit and read the paper. If you walk away smiling you won that one. The doctor who got grumpy with you, at the same time as you have your coffee is probably treating a patient with smelly feet etc
Enjoy your day with that thought in mind. Thanks for your determination! Ask around, the information is out there as to how the system works. Support group offices can often put you on the right track - ring them! They'll be happy to hear from you - it's why they are there. They are good people who find helping others rewarding.
Annette Desfosses
July 26th, 2010
Mental Health Law needs complete reform... not just band-aid solutions. The reform needs to provide care that begins at a grass roots level and is there for people on a continual basis... through to management and care. If this was achieved it would take pressure off the prison and court systems, hospitals and would be cost effective, and benefit the whole community as well as people suffering in the community... Mental Health Care needs to be 'management' focussed not medical or recovery focussed
Too Hard for the system
July 27th, 2010
Annette I'm not sure anyone has a clue what you are talking about. This sounds like rhetoric to me.
The plan put forward by Professor McGorry makes good sense - and will result in long term generational change.
Absolutely decent and real mental health care - especially for our young people will take pressure of the prison and court and hospitals and also reduce homelessness. Not to mention provide more productive members of society and reduce the burden. This MUST include early identification and early intervention and services that young people WILL access.
Young people will NOT call Lifeline if they feel suicidal - we must meet them where they are at - and give them REAL solutions.
We MUST provide commitment to inform and educate society and kill the stigma that keeps them from accessing the treatment they need.
I'm not sure what you mean by not wanting 'recovery' focussed care? That doesn't make sense - without recovery we won't get long-term change.
Shig
July 28th, 2010
I agree that a better approach to treating mental health must be devised.
What I worry about is when folks start saying that the Liberal Party would deliver parity between mental and physical health. First of all they are integrated - the concept of mental vs physical is outmoded. Any solution must deal with both in an integrated manner.
Aside from that parity to the Liberal Party might mean just that; no real increase in mental health services and a reduction in other health services to meet the mental health level. The Liberal Party has no intent or desire to improve health services overall and in fact was responsible for a significant decline in services throughout the country. They desperately want a two-tier health system.
DD
July 28th, 2010
Too many people see the Liberal Party as the party of "middle Australia" That is the problem, Shig.
It is not - The Liberal/National Coalition is in fact the phoney single combined political force that has fooled middle Australia and which keeps it in tow with promises of worker-bashing and Sanctuary-seekers bashing. It actually has nothing else to offer but empty words
The people it really represents are the very rich who are not bound by the constraints of EITHER public health service availability or normal internal nationally available private medical facility. The promises are empty.
True reform is not available without vast service reform and financial input. The Liberal Party would have to take it out of the overseas bank accounts, ludicrous incomes, and property portfolios of the rich - who are bound to them in ties of mutual support
They aren't about to do that. Australians - unlike Europeans - have been a little slow in recognising the rip off system they live under. Too many still categorise true social reform as communist or "socialist" propaganda.
So they get what they create through their own naievity
Sorry but there it is. If you want Climate Change action, improved health services, proper education, better training facilities, decent dignified welfare allowances, decent accommodation for all etc - the first step is to persuade these people to wise up!
The people behind the Coalition - the true power holders in Australia - won't give them to you - in the end you have to take them!. They don't SHARE - It is not in their nature! We must stop trying to get the leopard to change its spots. It is just wasted effort
Shig
July 28th, 2010
Sounds like US Rethuglicans. Given that the Australia Liberal Party was kicked off by the CIA, not surprising. Australia like the US has been slow on the uptake because both were spared the direct results of the two world wars. Australia in many ways is a bit worse off in this regard than the US.
We seem to have inherited some of the worst aspects of the UK caste system with none of the partially redeeming benefits.
And don't get me started on government support of religious schools, the exclusive brethren, the murdoch family et al.
DD
July 29th, 2010
Absolutely, Shig. We are effectively bringing our children up in a false reality created since the war with the support of our votes. and the votes of our parents generation. They were betrayed
This human-created false reality is detached from basic organic human reality. It does not directly address living standards and human rights. It relies on the mutual support of an outdated theology, no longer in fact even believed by many in the institutions that push it
And then we express surprise that our children - especially when ill or predisposed medically to illness - simply cannot cope. As one political thinker put it a long time ago - we have been sending our own children insane.
We do not need changes in "policies" - that is the equivalent of moving chairs on the Titanic - We struck the iceberg already with the collapse into war in the last century and the constant shifting of war zones since. We are living a patched up life that has no real core. The collapse of the economic bubble is a reminder that this is so
The real problems are ideological, philosophical and theological - our entire political culture is at fault and it is time we grew up and recognised it
Part of that culture stems from treating fiction as if it were fact. We do this with religion taking allegorical texts as if they were historical statements. We teach children to do this when we press them at HSC level to analyse writers such as Shakespeare, by viewing his characters in a "psychological manner", instead of recognising that his plays are plot driven and in fact are generally acutely political in nature, addressing the nature of society through addressing the problems of Elizabethan and Jamesian England
And so we end up bringing our children into a fictitious world that has no road map - telling them to accept ill-treatment as part of "training" - underpayment as "preparation for life" and the classist and racist treatment of the very children they may have played with in kindergarten as "normal and understandable human behaviour"
This is not about "political beliefs" as some would have it - nor is it about a bitter and twisted attitude to some fictional(sic) caste system. It is about seeing the world and society for what it is and making it better
We are currently watching an orchestrated attempt to bring down the Gillard Government. It is portrayed as the "democratic process" but seems more to be the biggest collection of dirty tricks employed against a sovereign Government in Australia since the "Dismissal" in the Whitlam era. I have NO doubt similar forces are involved as then. Even mental Health has become a football in this game
Bring it back to basics. When a car crashes unexpectedly - or a plane disintegrates in a ball of fire killing hundreds of people, we ask ourselves if something is wrong with the mechanism. Planes have black boxes recording their every moment - so concerned are we about this. So it must be with personal tragedy, whether ongoing or fatal. We must ask ourselves "why cannot this person cope with their environment? - Is there something we can do WITH that environment to assist them?"
This means getting out of the habit - so common in mental illnesses - of entirely blaming the victim. Blaming the victim is inherited from our political philosophy - We have the fiction that the division of wealth somehow reflects the division of ability or is divinely ordained. We have the delusion that failure to recover often reflects a failure to co-operate, and somehow we see genuine failure as demeaning to character rather than being a common outcome with which we must cope and which - as part of life - can even be enjoyed with a chuckle.
There are mountains here. I support the present Government because I believe that, however falteringly, there is an ethos within it that is willing to radically re-examine the nature of life and society in Australia. I believe we can - as people of the "Grass Roots" -actually talk to this government ,and put vital "human rights and society" questions back on the agenda. I believe this would be especially possible if the Greens held the balance of power in the Senate
To turn to the discredited Coalition would be to undo the successful work that has already been done in changing the nations mindset. It would be a return to Right Wing class interested populism - a return deeper into the unreality - the Scheinwelt of which I have written. I don't want that. I have a growing family too. I want to hand my world over to them in progressing shape not in a Conservative static medieval theology based timewarp.
Mental Health will improve and be better catered for when we as a society culturally grow up. This nation could leave the whole of the rest of the world behind in that process - the ability is there
Selfish forces have shown they will do almost anything to destroy such vision. The stops are all out on the organ of fascism - but it is the same old and rotten tune. Recognise it - heed it not - it is time to progress.
DD
July 29th, 2010
I am very sympathetic and compassionate towards your circumstances as a poster here, TH. I regard your comments as very important and informative. However from my own experiences I disagree with some of what you say. I too have lost people close to me - thankfully not family members. And I have my own ideas of what might have helped them. I grieve that I did not understand more fully in time. To J and D and P and the other D - I say sorry
I grew up in a battered and traumatised Continent. Some of the people I grew up with came from families who had lost members in the Holocaust. I worked alongside some people who had numbers on their arms. I grew up in damp rooms near bomb sites and moved into a tiny public housing flat. I had school friends whose fathers died in the war - who had never felt the hand of a father or seen his smile.
So I do know how circumstances of birth and cultural, political, and social circumstances bear on a person. My own father lost his father in the Great War. My mother's family endured generations of poverty and the death of her father from tuberculosis
This isn't empty theory - or a bitter and twisted world view that I am putting to you - some I learnt from upbringing and my environment - some was learnt during the days I stood on an observation platform staring over the Berlin Wall or wandering through the streets of East Berlin.
When you tell us that "suicide is the greatest killer of males between 14 and 25" then I respond - "then we had better look very closely at what is wrong"
I don't believe what happens in a psychiatrists clinic is of much real help if it is the world outside that is destroying the patient. Surely the aim must be that the patient can lead a dignified and comfortable life constrained only by normal social mores and the limitations imposed by illness. We could institutionalise - and perhaps that should be possible in more suitable supporting institutions - but I think we are right to want to take as little from the sufferer as we reasonably can and then only in his own interests
I appreciate your call for early identification. But in a more conscious society would that really be so difficult? Isn't the problem here that we are brought up NOT to be aware? To ask a simple question why are people brought up to watch such crap on television? - why is there so much crap on the commercial media? Shouldn't we have standards that make the broadcasting of infotainment borderline not permissible unless a sufficient higher standard of information surrounds it? Why should my society be deliberately dumbed down? How dare they! And this especially happened under the Howard regime - damage was done to our media that still needs addressing.
I am however a little curious that you are so keen I leave this blog,TH. I am puzzled that as one of the people that actually seeks to address the issues surrounding your terrible loss you are so keen to silence my voice. I ask you then which comes first for you - your worldview or your compassion. Think about that question and why I might ask it.
As I travelled around I picked up a proverb that I am rather fond of - I share it with you "Without the cold and bitterness of Winter there could not be the warmth and splendour of Spring" - there is another line to it in the version I learnt when I first encountered the saying. I believe in that line too.
Shig
July 29th, 2010
Having worked in many countries around the world, including the UK, US and Asia; there is a definite caste system in Australia IMHO. But that should be another discussion.
I agree that mental health treatment should/must be mainstreamed. It should also IMHO be integrated as an equal partner in the broader scheme of things. My view based on a lifetime of observation is that the Liberal Party can't/won't do that. They may well give you "parity," but note that there are two ways to achieve parity; raising one to meet another and chopping down the other to meet the first. Not a doubt in my mind that conservative action will lead to the latter. As it has time and time again in Australia and the UK.
I agree that it is time that governments take a collaborative approach to health issues and mental health in particular. It will take a real breakwater event to make that happen as I have not seen a collaborative effort between either of the two main parties on anything in the past 30 years!
It is not just the young who need the assistance and cannot get it, mental health issues are broadly distributed across the population. Some of our older citizens suffer the highest rates of some mental illnesses but get little treatment for it too.
DD
July 29th, 2010
Shig - I believe mental health is a relevant factor in our social environment - for which reason social structure cannot be a separate discussion
We are forced to politicise discussion because we have class based, rather than philosophically based, political parties - There is no "common purpose" - were there such then EVERY parliamentary vote would be a "conscience vote" Would that it could be so. We would have carbon emission legislation in force right now!
The Menzies Liberal Party - the party that takes the people into regional wars - has a terrible social welfare record. The party that conscripted the youth of the people to die in an asian battlefield, in an ideological conflict - let alone what happened under Howard (despite the street protests of the Australian people) - cannot be trusted with the welfare of the young. It simply does not understand. It has no egalitarian concept of "duty of care"
Including - as you rightly point out - for our underprivileged senior citizens
Times gotta change!
DD
July 29th, 2010
How you expect to get the full story on anyone from a blog thread is quite beyond me TH, but that confusion on my part is as nothing compared with my puzzlement that you somehow have managed to invent the idea that I said I was leaving it
In terms of prosperity, TH, - it is highly likely that in fact I have more than you have, so your suggestion that I am resenting other people on the basis they have more than me is quite ludicrous. I am not pleading personal poverty. Nor am I asking for a tax break:-)
My family pay taxes - rather a lot of them actually in a good year - like anyone else working in particular areas. This gives me an experienced insight into the way people think across quite a wide strata of society, and into the divisions within society.
No-one is "derailing a conversation" simply because they reply to you, or express a different view. I have displayed great tolerance towards the fact you express a different view yourself - focusing on the views themselves and explaining where I disagree. In response I seem to be getting character attack and personalised abuse - including the "Peeyo back where you came from" kind
You can disagree with me as much as you choose. That is the purpose of discussion forums. I would claim in this respect to be speaking from within the framework publicly set out by GetUp, and which you can read on their webpage as follows:
"GetUp is an independent, grass-roots community advocacy organisation giving everyday Australians opportunities to get involved and hold politicians accountable on important issues.
Whether it is sending an email to a member of parliament, engaging with the media, attending an event or helping to get a television ad on the air, GetUp members take targeted, coordinated and strategic action.
GetUp does not back any particular party, but aims to build an accountable and progressive Parliament - a Parliament with economic fairness, social justice and environment at its core."
GetUp is not an Apolitical(sic) organisation or a support group. It is a Grass Roots political advocacy organisation that crosses party lines on a variety of selected issues
Thus I would point out it is quite in order here to deal with matters such as mental health within a political and social and environmental context. That is what I have done
I am not seeing an alternative view in your posts here. I am seeing an attempt to silence me and deride me - both of which I can take
if I have an aim, it is using my own personal experiences to encourage people to open out this debate on mental health into its full social dimension. I do not see mental health as a source of professional fees for the middle class or as an area for woolly thinking support clubs. I see it as a truly desperate area of unhappiness into which I would like to help bring some light and encourage some practical approaches that are properly funded
In this I include reforms to a social structure that turns fine but unwell people into an underclass. Have you never seen them on the streets TH? Have you never stepped inside some hostels or boarding houses and seen where so many of them ended up? Have you never visited a prison and seen what happens to all too many of our fellow people? Listen to police officers who see themselves as having thrust on them what amounts to the results of inadequate mental health care - they will quick smart tell you - as the London Times thundered to the British Government during the Profumo Scandal- "It is a political matter!"
Have you never seen the joy in the faces of mentally challenged or disabled people when they are properly looked after and helped - and as light pierces the shadowlands they have lived in? I have done all of that. My family has helped people to fight to save their homes - helped them become recipients of proper welfare - including standing in line with them at social security offices - arranging medical assessments visiting them in Psychiatric hospitals and emegency stations, and so on.
Currently we are trying to help the family of a person with Alzheimers who appears to be being robbed of her home at the age of nearly ninety. TH I know the front line in some of these battles and I know the social mentality that causes so much misery
So please stop accusing me of political manouvering or whatever other Right Wing nonsense you have in mind. You claim to have experienced great tragedy - don't undermine, please, those of us trying to do what we can to create a society in which such sadness doesn't recur or to at least minimise pain
Had I known your son I would have hopefully been amongst those trying to help. I cannot help everyone. But I can try to promote - through free discussion in an appropriate forum, which I believe GetUp blogs to be - political assessment as well as social assessment of these matters. I don't believe I have to apologise for that - and - as I have done on other threads I will probably edit and delete my posts when they are no longer relevant. If there is any "clutter" you are causing it not me - I am responding not initiating
As I said elsewhere we live in dangerous times. I hope by September the Abbott threat to the disadvantaged and to our environment will have receded into history. But till then I will fight and fight and fight again to protect the vulnerable of the country I chose, and to which I have sworn allegiance, from a potential catastrophe. I'd hope to see you doing the same
Regards DD
TooHard for the system
July 29th, 2010
I am going to remove all of my recent comments on this blog. this is a blog about mental health reform and not about general politics.
GetUp is an a-political grass-roots movement and the direction this blog has gone is more than just disappointing and I won't be a party to that.
Reform in mental health is what I am passionate about achieving and not for me - I have nothing to gain now... my son is gone. I won't however ever stop fighting the 'system' to bring about the changes that can see the loss of life reduced and the quality of life for the mentally ill improved and the stigma around mental illness gone.
I am not aligned with any political party - although I probably am more conservative than left wing.
I will support whatever party is prepared to introduce the best policy in this area.
All governments over history have failed the mentally ill - not just this one or the Howard one. There is some good stuff that's been done - but it's not enough.
We need to provide a solution to young people that they are comfortable about accessing and we need to introduce early identificaiton and early intervention. I believe that this is possible much younger than has been previously discussed.
My son showed signs of serious problems from the age of 5 - but was labelled a 'behavioural problem'. We need to stop labelling children as being 'attention seeking' and investigate what's really going on...
Bring on the change - it can be achieved - programs can be implemented that will impact the harm caused to our society by mental illness and mental health issues.
BJM
July 29th, 2010
Have a look at the petition being gathered by MAD.org.au..
Most of the site doesn't appear to be working but the petition page is.
It needs to be signed and sent back by 31st July. I'm sure you could scan and email.
DD
July 29th, 2010
And the label you would have applied was...?
When my own son was eighteen months old I thought it was time for another visit to the pediatrician. So I asked the doctors I knew who they took their own children to and booked him in with that person, as a private patient
The doctor was greatly concerned at his balance and gait, and immediately ordered a brain scan lest he have a brain tumour. He received that within seventy two hours under full anaesthetic.
Fortunately the result was negative, but he was placed under an early childhood assessment clinic’s observation, where he was assessed with high level Attentive Deficit Disorder. His primary school did a further assessment when he was five. However as a result of my efforts, he started school with a reading level of the Chronicles of Narnia and was accelerated.
Finding that he had difficulty coping with the state education system, however, we put him in a private secondary school. His education cost us around ninety thousand dollars, plus university, where he graduated with a science faculty degree
I was warned when he was some four years of age he might not learn - he might be institutionalised - he might even end up in prison - I was having none of that. We used a bequest to circumnavigate his difficulties. I believe we won through
You see TH I do know what I am talking about - I’ve been through my own particular hell in this. but with a health system defective as it is - but nor ruined by the likes of Bjelke Petersen - I found a way through. More recent EEGs show a more typical brain pattern. Maturity came
I try to pass on my knowledge, much acquired with great pain. Others may be able to use it
To sum it up I would say “recognise that the system itself and many of the professionals within it are faulty. Focus on achievable aims you can personally service - like teaching reading, facilitating music studies and expanding the cultural understanding and participation. Never accept a negative opinion that has no remedy - seek further”
Use tutors if you need to. The rich almost universally do for ALL their children, even in private education. Use occupational therapists, physiotherapists as well as psychologists if you need to - never be without professional advice - the best you can afford. Read all their textbooks and discuss them.
Be determined. Accept lateral thinking and work with it. Do not get waylaid by destructive labels such as Aspergers syndrome but keep an eye open for autistic phenomena. Study how people learn - read the professionals textbooks especially in relation to education. Learn how people learn to read - for example - and apply that knowledge. Learn too exactly what psychological labels mean and the history of those labels
From the day my child was conceived I fought for him. Now he tends more to look after me. I know what we needed and what was there and how we filled the gap. I know how difficult it would have been without sizeable private funds fortuitously received and - I believe - selflessly employed - as a tribute to the much loved family member from whom they were inherited.
I’m off to Europe next year - our first holiday in ten years and our second in twenty
Thats part of my story. It is why I fight that others may have similar help as a human right, whatever the problems and to whomever they are born. But I know that for that to happen society must change.
For my family it has been a long journey, I know the story only from the time of dispossession as Huegenots on my fathers side and on my mother’s side as Irish Catholics. TH it has nothing to do with a “twisted view”
Just memory my dear - just memory and experience, much of tragedy.
It is time to move on from this discussion, I hope
BJM
July 30th, 2010
Although Autism and it's related conditions are listed in the DSM-IV the 'system' that provides support for ADD and other ASD disorders is not the mental health system.
These conditions are dealt with by disabilities and education.
Mental health in children can't be addressed by hiring a tutor or providing educational support.
A parents journey through the mental health system with a child that is effected by mental health issues whether known and labelled or not is entirely different than that journey that would be taken by parents of a child with this kind of disability. As are the availability of support from both private and public systems.
For a child with mental health issues / illness there isn't anything that they can do or pay for that will help their children. Support MUST come from the professionals in the 'system'.
DD
July 30th, 2010
I think you missed my point, BJM. I was responding to a post in which the poster informed us that her child was diagnosed at the age of five as having a "behavioral disorder" and observed that she felt that they should have looked deeper
My point is that starting from a symptom which should be visible with normal pediatric monitoring, the first observation is quite likely to be of that nature. In my own son's case the symptom was inbalance
If one responds negatively, one is likely to simply take the child away and shrug ones shoulders in a "what do they know fashion". What is important is to know how to follow up. In our case it became assessment (following Cat Scan) by a superb early childhood assessment group - on Medicare.
It took about six assessment visits to make a reliable diagnosis which included further pediatric examination and psychological testing - which was further monitored as my child got older
Had he had an alternate disorder or a "full" mental illness, I have no doubt it would have been revealed, as would a physical illness. if diagnosis is medically possible you will get it but not in just one ten minute visit. What is "obvious" to you may not be to a hard pressed doctor
Assessment is not the problem. If you pursue through the system you will get the diagnosis you need as a guideline. Early diagnosis and intervention is already available in our big cities
The problem comes however when you seek to manage the problem. I posted how we dealt with ADD and the procedures we used were appropriate to that disorder and to our child. But even for ADD this worked out as extremely expensive. That is again my point
Comparing experiences with parents of children with more serious mental illnesses showed a pattern in some areas not dissimilar. The intense attention required, the stress and anxiety, the feeding difficulties, the apparent irrationality - all of these are common with the more serious parts of the DSM spectrum - as is the inability to relax - the difficulties getting respite - the lack of holidays - the tensions of outings - and family "disapproval" when things go wrong - and doctors who don't help - some are like that!
The need for expert help and for strategies is also common with more serious mental illness. The problems cover everything from behaviour to education and to nutrition and so on
There is a very great deal that can be done to help in addition to what is already available, but you are optimistic in the extreme if you think money doesn't help. For many it is the question of a suitable safe vehicle, respite, and eventually in some cases ongoing supervision and accommodation for the patient. It is to be able to seek care without being accused of seeking overservicing or special privileges. It is also the ability to employ professionals who won't throw you out after forty minutes and a "hang in there"
This blog began with an article based on Prof McGorry's statements . Some of the conclusions of that article as to needs are as follows:
- End the inequality: 90% of people with physical health problems access quality care, but only 35% of people with mental ill-health access quality care;
- Resource new programs properly: The Government yesterday announced just $25 million for the Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centre (EPPIC), but Prof. Patrick McGorry, who heads the organisation that devised the program (Orygen Youth Mental Health), says this falls far short of the funds required to run the program properly.
- More funding: GetUp members, and Australian of the Year, Prof. McGorry, have been calling for $800 million in funding for the Headspace and EPPIC programs for youth mental health over the next four years. Yesterday's announcement commits to only $103 million over four years for these programs.
Two of these items relate directly to the availability of money. They speak of facilities that are technically and professionally possible and that are also desirable. They are held back by lack of money to provide them as a full publicly available facility
I have been surprised at the extent to which I found hostility on this blog towards its aim of recognising the role of finance in mental health. I merely confirmed it from personal experience in three countries, and from my family experiences of living in the United States. The present medical systems have provided great scientific advances through entrepreneurism but that same entrepreneurism has failed to provide adequate services for all classes through "the operation of market forces". We need national planning and intervention, changing structures, including perhaps the structure of specialist remuneration
That should put the cat where it should be - right amongst the pigeons!
The first item is only partially about funding it is also about knowing what to do - how to navigate through these difficult waters. Perhaps people reading this who have dealt with the system successfully could pass on their experience. Use of any system often promotes funding for it
My comments were appropriate to one area and I will conclude with a couple of items of general advice. If you have a friend who is a lawyer carry their card around with you and include them in communications that become difficult. Read the appropriate sections of the Law Handbook issued by the referral service in your state ( Redfern Legal Centre in NSW) and if you live in a poor suburb find an excuse to consult a doctor in a rich area. you may get a surprise there - even on Medicare doctors behave differently suburb to suburb. After having a condition ignored for years by my local GP I went to one in Rose Bay in Sydney that serviced the Vaucluse area. They were horrified and had me in a luxurious private hospital undergoing tests within five days.
Unrepentant as ever - Yours for rum riot and rebellion as ARCHY put it:
"we ought all to be grateful in this country that our wall street robber barons and crooked international bankers are such highly respectable citizens and do so much for the churches and for charity and support such noble institutions and foundations for the welfare of mankind and are such spiritually minded philanthropists it would be horrid to be robbed by the wrong kind of people "
(Don Marquis)
NOTE I will delete some earlier posts shortly since they were responses to items that the poster has removed
BJM
July 30th, 2010
Actually I don't think I missed your point DD.
I do have to disagree with you however, if identification of early on-set mental health disorders or illnesses was freely available for children as they are for those with ASD disorders there would be a pathway to obtaining the treatment and support that they need. It isn't as simple as you portray.
I did go back and read your earlier posts and it seems that you have toned down your stance on the money point.
What I observed was a push to change the basic social structure of Australian society and a belief that mental illness is caused by a 'class' society and that the rich should pay for the poor. I'm glad to see you have restated your point of view.
I don't think anyone on this blog would disagree that more money MUST be made available to provide the kind of service that is actually needed in mental health.
I for one agree with Patrick McGorry's statements and find it extraordinary that the funding of mental health is a political issue at all.
If services are required then they should be provided - by whatever government is in power as a matter of 'business as usual'. Sadly, this hasn't been the case and it is now a hot topic because it's an election issue. This in itself is unacceptable.
TooHard for the system
July 30th, 2010
BJM - you got it completely right.
Allow me to clarify something.
My son was not 'diagnosed' with a 'behavioural disorder' - he was 'labelled' a 'behavioural problem'. Basically he was 'naughty'. There's a huge difference there. See he didn't fit into the ASD spectrum. I didn't just walk away he was in front of psychologists and the paediatrician and counsellors during his primary school years. Then at 13 we finally got results with a new psychiatrist.... but then at 14 he started doing drugs and once again it came down to him being 'naughty' and doing the wrong thing. When really he was just self-medicating.
We hooked into both the private and public sector and pretty much got nowhere.... oh from the age of 14, following his first attempt at suicide, they all agreed that there was something wrong - but no conclusive diagnosis and apart from the perfunctuary prescription of anti-depressants that he didn't like taking - he only actually had 'treatment' or 'therapy' from any of the psychiatrists or psychologists about 6 months before he suicided. The only thing he was ever given was counselling - or visits with them.
So, come to think of it, there was a common theme throughout his life - he's being 'naughty', it's 'attention-seeking' and he needs to just stop all that and behave himself.
Well that advise is like telling someone who is a quadraplegic to get out of the wheelchair and walk. They simply can't.
We hooked into all parts of the 'system' all over the place - money was no object ever.
The formal court system (yes I tried that too) and the hospital links into the public system and we were there too. As well as being involved in Anglicare, DrugArm and other community groups. It was always about him just simply getting over it.
If he had been identified early then things might have very different. He was in the system and desperately asking for help for years and years - and even with that - he never got what he really needed - hospitalisation for assessment and intensive therapy. The last psych he was seeing agreed but said that he didn't meet the criteria of the act - I'm to this day completely at a loss to understand how.
He was a threat to himself, to others and was refusing treatment (if that treatment included hospital). He wouldn't go into a private hospital either - that was on offer - a private room - and he could take his computer and everything.... still wouldn't do it. That's the one thing that he needed. He needed HELP to stop drinking and drugs and he needed therapy and possibly stabilising on medication. He bought into the stigma himself and wouldn't go into a 'loony bin'.
In relation to his diet and other things - we tried everything - he was on a restrictive diet (he was a coeliac) he practiced relaxation, meditation and used essential oils (highest grade therapeutic grade). He played football, he'd read himself to sleep - he ran - absolutely everything that was suggested we tried. He had visits with an alternative healer, occupational therapist, kinesiologist - you name we did it.
The reality of my experience is that the system is broken - completely broken. I'd like to understand why the hospital wouldn't hold him when he overdosed in August last year - they told me that he had a long list of problems but it wouldn't work because he wouldn't cooperate. I guess he wouldn't - at least not for the first 24 hours or so after all he was still under the influence of 30 + valium, dope, alcohol and speed, and he'd been taken to the hospital under duress by the police and ambulance. The thing is that they didn't even try - they didn't even give him a chance.
The dual diagnosis policies aren't even worth the paper they are printed on. There was no access - either through the drug and alcohol route or the mental health route. Oh ATODS told him that he had to stop drinking and that they were there for him to phone them. There was no real substanital help from them either. See his phobias stopped him from reaching out - even by phone. If I was available to take him he'd go - or if his sister went with him - but his phobias were debilitating. I had a rehab centre tell me that HE had to phone them - it wasn't enough for me to phone and explain and then give him the phone. So he wouldn't do it - more of the 'he just has to do it'.
Money MUST be applied to improved services - at no time do I believe that funding was an issue for his neglect. The problem is inherant in the system itself. Early identification and intervention is the only way to get kids like him - and his story isn't at all unusual. I know of at least 3 young men (19 - 21) who have suicided this year in my local area - all have similar stories.
Things HAVE to change - that is not an option.
Things would certainly be better if identification was easily available.
TooHard for the system
July 30th, 2010
The most appalling thing that ever happened was when the psychiatrist who should have admitted him for assessment following his last non-fatal attempt said to me that I should distance myself from him.
I was appalled and told him so...
And took him back to the psychiatrist he had been seeing for 2 years. He'd begged me to help him - and I told him that he had to do what I tell him if he wants me to help him - and that included going into hospital. He agreed but the psychiatrist refused to admit him - claiming that it wasn't really his wishes and that because he'd been drinking (more than 10 hrs earlier) he wouldn't admit him. That's when I went in search of another psychiatrist.
DD
July 31st, 2010
I wonder what you feel an "assessment" would have achieved, for the fact is the psychiatrist has assessed the situation - He may be wrong, but he has assessed it.
Mental illness - especially where drugs and alcohol are involved - are about social dynamics as well as individual disorder. AlAnon - the companion fellowship to AA, would have given you a similar answer, I suspect. The word they use is "detachment". Serenity in AA is detachment in AlAnon. Both have to be learnt. Both stem from interpretation of the word "Gelasssenheit" in the original Serenity prayer (I seem to remember that I have seen that word printed as "Zuverlassenheit" but this may be bad memory here)
To be told to "distance" may well have been to be advised to "detach" to break a major dynamic.The only alternative to voluntary admission where this admission is refused but essential is compulsory incarceration on a schedule. The question of why this path was not taken I cannot of course answer.
AA and AlAnon philosophy have their origins in American Fundamentalism and in the Oxford Groups which became the core of Moral Rearmament - a Right Wing CIA influenced group. When we deal with Psychology we are actually in an ideological area. The Psychoanalysts, the followers of Reich etc were acutely ideological. Freud himself lost family in the Holocaust - four of his sisters in fact - and he himself died in exile. He once said:
"What progress we are making. In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books."
Detachment doesn't only break the social dynamic that sometimes enables behaviour - it also grants the ability to step back and view the whole picture, and see that there is more at fault in the entire pattern of disorder and interaction with the environment than just the sufferers "disorder" and "alienation".
My conclusions are in fact echoed in many of the works of the major founders of psychiatry and psychology. You can read them. But there is too much to discuss here. I believe however that the society that was cobbled together after the Second World War was simply dysfunctional, and we have paid a very dear price for that since. Back in Europe steps were taken under Atlee in England to build a functioning Welfare State but unfortunately that initiative largely foundered with the return of Conservatism to power in 1951 followed by some thirteen wasted Cold War years that eventually took the West into Vietnam. This mentality rebounded in Australia through Robert Menzies
Nearly three generations have grown up in the social and ideological mess - That is where the problems lie- these are the dynamics. Conservatism would have it that the society is fine so long as it operates through market forces and the sufferer is entirely at fault- he must learn to fit in or be incarcerated - and then even that option of institutionalisation is taken away
Well that view is wrong. Our economy has collapsed, we are bogged down in middle eastern wars, our children and the vulnerable cannot get decent housing, we are barraged with dumbing down media nonsense and violence, our religious theology is stuck in a childish medieval time warp, and mental illness is treated as a stigma rather than a normal health problem. Our children cannot find properly remunerative work even when they attend university and we blame the weak and on that basis of blaming we deprive them of the funding needed to help them cope or recover
If a square peg won't fit in a round hole - which do you blame and which do you fix? - surely both. You cannot separate mental health problems from our social environment any more that you can separate physical problems from our physical environment. And until you grasp that.... I'll leave it there
emj
July 31st, 2010
Let us focus on what can be quickly and effectively achieved by building on structures already in place and expand or modify from there. Let us deal with the "what is" to what could be so much better. It is possible to have good practice from the drawing room to the coalface. Courageous, considered leadership from community, practitioners and politicians is needed and is possible. Yes, mental illness, like any other human condition, is a social issue and we can deal with it within our society as faulty (or not)it may be.
TooHard for the system
July 31st, 2010
I have this afternoon been meeting with a couple of lovely like-minded ladies as we organise the upcoming mental health vigils for our area.
These vigils are about honoring those that we have lost and those that are still suffering from a mental illness.
for details of the vigil that will be running closest to you.
If you are unable to attend - please remember this time to make a silent private acknowledgement of those that you know that have lost their lives or are still suffering.
And if you so inclined please honour them in your prayer / thoughts.
Together we can bring about the change that is required... it really isn't an option.
I note the recommendations on housing needs in the Senate report:
"Housing
3.28 That federal, state and territory governments ensure that the full range of short, medium and long-term supported accommodation is available to those with mental illness who need it. Modes of innovative service delivery that should be considered include:
3.29 That each state and territory establish formal measures to better manage public and private tenancies to address the needs of people with mental illness living in the community.
In other words we are talking of Public housing in the Public sector and controlled tenancies in the private sector. Neither of these are in anything like adequate supply "even" for the totally sane and completely fit and able. Desperate young people end up enslaved by mortgages that ultimately pay interest to the already rich in order just to have somewhere to live, love, and raise children
Both of the measures - public and private - in practical terms require social change away from pure market capitalism
But then it seems some even within sufferers families find that too great a sacrifice seeming to put antiquated social ideologies and redundant political allegiances first! - And - of course the mentally il and the disabled thereby lose their greatest potential advocates and campaigners
A basic reality principle - "if you demand of government and of a political system that which it does not want to, and indeed has no intention of, providing you are by definition taking a political action, and seeking a change in the political structure and system."
Sometimes people have to have the bleedingly obvious stated! The mentally ill have been relegated to the bottom of the heap and will remain there until those who care most about them wise up!
3.82 of the report proposes "That governments direct recurrent funding to Indigenous community controlled health services to administer the development, implementation and evaluation of appropriate mental health programs."
This therefore advocates a disbursement of administrative power and the setting up of functioning aboriginal political and administrative structures and these - as the earlier paragraphs show - must included social structural matters such as housing
In relation to "asylum seekers" see this paragraph
3.72 "That there be a review of health care policies for the delivery of health care for refugee and asylum seekers in both the Australian community and Australian run detention centres, with a view to developing more culturally sensitive and comprehensive policies and standards that recognise the complex needs of asylum seekers"
This - of course recognises that the detention system is in many cases cruel and mentally damaging. However this - as the report states would require greater cultural sensitivity on the part of both Government and people and a willingness to properly recognise the desperation of persecuted and traumatised people
That is a social and political change from the filthy and disgusting use of the problems of sanctuary seekers as a political electioneering football - including those of refugee children - by such as the Coalition leader, and also on the part of those that would elect him. It also tacitly recognise the failings in this area of the Howard regime under which the report was commenced
And of course - quietly slipped into the report is an affirmation of the need for affirmative action employment programs
Undoubtedly all too "communist" for some people (sigh) Never mind - it hasn't all been implemented - Like prayer it is all Just words thrown into darkness.
j evans
August 3rd, 2010
It is imperative that we face up to the need to offer treatment to the multitude of our fellow citizens who have been damaged by mental illness. It is an area which needs resources for research, care, and understanding. if we put the energy and humanity into the care of mentally ill people which we put into cancer we would have a very different society, where the respect and sympathy which is shown to cancer patients is given to mental illness. We do not ask people suffering from cancer to pull themselves together, to face up to reality, stop pretending, as well as the other derogatory and insensitive attitudes which we impose upon people who are suffering from depression, severe stress, and drug diseases. The the torment of mental illness is beyond description. As a society we must make every effort to remove our mentally ill from the prisons into hospitals, and back into society. I am completely in favour of a vigourous well funded approach to mental illness.
BJM
August 3rd, 2010
I completely agree. I was discussing mental health with someone tonight and we were considering the statistics..
There are 180 attempted suicide (one every eight minutes) and only 84 are hospitalised.
The point we were discussing was around the amount of human suffering that this indicates. Not just the act itself - but the suffering that has occurred leading to this event - the suffering of the person themselves, and then consider that of the families and their friends.
This is TOO BIG a problem.
We should all be ashamed that this much suffering is going on in peoples lives and we are NOT providing support BEFORE they attempt suicide. It's too late then... they need help BEFORE they get to this point.
If Ms Gillard thinks that providing counselling AFTER they have attempted - she's missed the point completely. And, what if their first attempt is their only one. It's too late. And for someone with mental illness, counselling will very likely not be enough.
And lets work together to change the attitude of our society to those who are suffering - make it safe and ok for them to seek help - and lets start reaching out to them rather than expecting them to seek help - which often they simply can't.
A comprehensive well-funded and resourced program is the only way we can work to reducing all this suffering.
dusty
August 4th, 2010
I never thought I would say this but the Libs have come a lot closer to the amount of $ we need to even go any where near the amount of $ needed for mental health care...Labor needs to get serious about mental health, homelessness, carers. We need more funds to flow not only to prevention in youth but to all the age levels of M/H illness and issues. So many live in total terror and anguish, at every age level, every social level... when will government take this situation seriously and put their money where their heart/head is...well one might say they have no heart and as for their heads...well that may be located in a totally different part of their anatomy?
CB
August 5th, 2010
I'm sorry I can't make the vigil tomorrow night, but thank you getup and everyone in the community for standing up and making mental health heard. I'm a doctor who has worked in various areas of medicine including psychiatry and if I were a lay person, with no private health cover; who had to choose today between my child having leukaemia (a much rarer condition; but highly treatable, needing a period of 2 years or more of toxic chemotherapy - where there is ready access to specialists, social workers, highly specialised services and nursing staff; funding for research) or schizophrenia (a chronic condition, though highly treatable; which also requires multidisciplinary care and medications) - comparing the resources and management now available to children in both situations, I would choose leukaemia. Mental illnesses are poorly managed, and still stigmatised. In health there is stark inequity with resource allocation (given the above examples). The mental health system is set up, and resourced in the way so that so that no one seems to take sole responsibility for the patients care - and each caregiver just learns how to pass the buck by referring to other, already swamped, full, services. This would never (rarely) happen to a cancer patient.
I agree with the counsellors' comments that there is such a big reliance on (and alot of use of) psychotropic medication, and this occurs particularly in inpatient care. There is often a lack of readily available (public) psychology. Working in mental health is exhausting, and depressing, as you see a constant stream of people and their families and friends afflicted by the far reaching effects of mental illness; despite their constant pleas for help and compliance with recommended management, they are still ostracized from their peers and workplaces, and in terms of health priority, they are put at the bottom of the list. Awareness first, particularly in the community (thank you Get-up), then major restructuring and rationalising of services (extra "programs" doesn't equate to efficiency and good use of money), and access to management with an evidence base (there is no lack of evidence to guide health professionals how to manage mental health problems) - with ideally one health care provider taking responsibility for the patients management (whether this be a GP, psychiatrist or case worker depending on the case - more support for case workers!!!!) will help get mental health on track.
Concerned but thankful
August 4th, 2010
I thank Getup for there action in raising the awareness in this issue, however I can't help but feel that the big parties are not taking us seriously!
There is so much need in this area and a lot of the time those in need don't even know it. I have had an anxiety disorder and have been receiving treatment - but only after resisting for a long time, however I can see similar symptoms in other members of my community and family who are unaware and as a consequence finding life a real struggle.
I also have a friend who is raising 4 beautiful children on her own as her husband has bipolar disorder and is being cared for by his parents ( who by the way took 4 years to accept it was a disease before they decided to help).
I could write more, but I know that many others have similar experiences - I just hope we can rally together and get noticed... our health system is struggling - but our mental health systems is barely breathing!!!
I thank everyone in this community for their stand on Mental Health.
Frances Amaroux
August 5th, 2010
I really LOVE that you are fighting for this cause....
However, as a counsellor in private practice, I need to hear that all these health initiatives are not focused mainly on drug interventions as the first port of call.
I am horrified at the massive abuse of prescription drugs for people who are so-called ’clinically depressed’...ie labeled with an ‘illness’ when they are just feeling bad because of various things that have happened to them.... Things that can be solved without the use of debilitating drugs.
I and other health professionals are the ones left to pick up the pieces from people who have long term prescribed drug use.
Until I know more about the plans, there is no way I can support such a thing.
More info please.
BJM
August 5th, 2010
Frances
It has been my experience, and that of many others that I speak to, that counselling rarely helps someone who is suffering from a mental illness. Depression can't be taken lightly - to do so will have us ignoring the needs of these people. To reduce their 'suffering' to 'just' feeling bad because of various things in their life isn't really acceptable to me. I'm not sure that you are qualified to make such an assessment.
People die from depression and all of the doctors, therapist and counsellors need to learn that - if depression isn't treated appropriately people will die - this is a matter of life and death.
I do however agree that there could be too many drugs prescribed and that what's needed is a combination of therapy (not counselling - but real therapy) and medication. Meds without the supporting therapy won't really fix anything.
The therapy I refer to would include things like talk therapy, CBT, REM etc I would expect that to provide this kind of therapy you would need to be a qualified psychologist, psychiatrist or psychotherapist.
Therapy provided by under-qualified practitioners can cause more harm than help.
Counselling really is for those people who are having a tough time in life, and not for the mentally ill - although I'm certain that it will provide support - it is not an adequate treatment plan for them.
I am impressed that Drs have known when to speak out about the inadequate resources for anyone with a mental illness. However I am very concerned that at the same time the concept of mental injuries,rather than illnesses is not highlighted by this vigil.
Causes for mental injuries may include workplace bullying harrassment, or other structured systemic biases such as rights of victims of crime vs the alledged offenders, Employers and employees rights and responsibilities especially in whistleblowing disclosures are made in the public interest but the employer or Governments aims to use mental illness to invalidate the public interest disclosures raised and label the ethical worker as having a mental illness which then stigmatises and may marginalise the ethical employee. Whistleblowers Australia have many examples of this conduct by Government employers.
I firmly believe Get Up's Human rights campaign needs to be reactivated to ensure we include transient mental health conditions, such as mental injuries that would improve if the structured discriminations, biases and breaches of human rights by public authorities e.g. health system, judicial system,policing system, workplace OHS& R systems were rightfully addressed.
I hope Get Up will reactivate the HR campaign to be totally inclusive and aware of the power of language when referring to some mental injuries as mental illnesses.
Dianne Carroll OAM
August 6th, 2010
Mental Health Issues in the Transport Industry have fallen off the radar... we (Trans-Help Foundation) have been lobbying for support and funding for four years and have got nothing... We continue to save lives, make the industry healthier and safer. We support families following, accident, fatalities, suicides and support the victims following the general public choosing Trucks as their preferred way of suiciding. All this is masked under the heading of fatigue www.transhelpfoundation.com.au
BJM
August 7th, 2010
Congratulations to your organisation - I've not been involved personally - but I'm sure you do some great work and we need to acknowledge all of the community groups who get out there and actually HELP those with mental health illnesses and disorders.
I expect that these groups could certainly do with some much-needed financial support - and community support and recognition.
They are a vital part of the 'system' and should be recognised as such.
It's also worth noting that these over-worked community groups provide support and counselling - while it still falls to the mental health 'system' to provide diagnosis and treatment - and it must all happen in a co-ordinated consultative process for the individual effected.
Once again - acknowledgement and support for all the community groups getting out there with people who need them.
Mental Health First Aid - should be an essential part of any training/work/school/sport/ community/ government program. An example http://www.mhfa.com.au/
emj
August 7th, 2010
Re my last entry, the addresses are incorrectly picking up the next word
HiHo
August 7th, 2010
A group of concerned constituents met with the Liberal member of Corangamite Sarah Henderson, yesterday about the issue of Mental Health, and it is apparent that there is still some misconceptions about the majority of people who suffer a mental health problem. The discussions about the need for services for our youth, whilst admirable and laudible, failed to ultimately recognise that there is a huge gap in services for people with high prevalence disorders which will widen if Social Workers and Occupational Therapists are removed from the Medicare aproved practitioners list in April 2011. The Better Access to Mental Health initiative is still under review and many of those with high prevalance disorders who have been able to access support will not be eligible to access the ATAPS scheme being touted as the alternative by Labor. Is this not an issue for the community if the only concerns being raised are about our youth and the low prevalence disorders that make media headlines.
BJM
August 7th, 2010
HiHo
I'm wondering what you would class as high prevalence and low prevalence.
I don't see anywhere that the programs around youth are only aimed at 'low prevalence' disorders.
I agree that the Better Access program is great and should be continued. I think most people would agree when it comes to mental health that labor have missed the point completely and the coalition plans although much needed and necessary and a great start still don't give completely what is needed.
Although I would suggest that by providing targeted programs for the youth - it would reduce the number of youth in the currently over-burdened system - leaving space for the others. Again - not sure what you mean by high-prevalence here either.
fedup
August 9th, 2010
while this thought maybe abhorrent to many, how about we rediscover asylum for the mentally ill. There are many patients forced out of hospitals, who have no chance @ making a go of it! It has become cheaper & more expedient for the state goverments to utilse the trendy terms like commuity care,(which basically means families) to bare the brunt of care for the mentally unwell. this social experiment as gone long enough. Prisons have become defacto asylums. Hell look @ the USA & the UK experiences. Years ago patients had, good food, good clothing & a roof over there heads. No sleeping rough & being @ the mercy of the unscruplous in hostels or on the streets. Sure there were abuses, but times have changed the behaviours of the few from the past would never be tolerated these days. Many need asylum from the world and in some cases the world needs asylum from the few. ASYLUM it could be the answer.
DD
August 9th, 2010
What you are suggesting is not unreasonable, "Fedup". Historically the leading light on deinstitutionalising mentally ill people was the Richmond report into mental Health services in NSW
Supposedly aimed at encouraging care within the community the result was that people were encouraged out of psychiatric hospitals and into non existent community care. It was copied by all states.
It was turned into a means of saving money on mental health care without providing improved services
The report in terms of its long term effect is surely fully discredited. Those who would have been in mental hospitals are now largely in prisons, in poor boarding house accommodation, night hostels, or on the streets, sleeping out on the wettest and coldest nights
The Richmond report was released in 1983 but its provisions were anticipated in the previous years
Once again the question is really one about the whole nature of our society. Lack of public housing and accommodation policies, lack of rent control and callous lack of welfare services in addition to the absence of institutional accommodation has created a sick and suffering underclass of our mentally ill people
It is a social and political disgrace. I'm sure the police who end up as nannies to the mentally ill would agree that it is time to recall the Richmond report and rethink the entire network of (largely non-existent) care
Christina Wilson
August 10th, 2010
It is disgraceful the paucity of education and training ... some mental health professionals do not adequately understand mental health first aid and lack even simple communication skills training. This is something that can be fixed in at least some part. Skills programmes in listening and response methods (based on telephone skills training) are small and essential beer. It is bizarre observing the status of communication in some mental health environments. Some staff risk forgetting how to appropriately address people who are not mentally ill as equally as they seem flummoxed how to address people who are mentally ill, and continue to want to argue. There linger outdated ideas and prejudices that are blame based. And as if a relative or a carer has not endured enough rounds of a living room regards what it is they have allegedly DONE to a psychotic individual that has harmed them or might harm them... only to be subjected to indifference by mental health staff when they describe their relative is in need and their own situation dire.
I have been told by a health professional that it is a matter of 'knowing one's boundaries' when I expressed concern I have frequently had to accept responsibility on buses and in the street to take people who need mental health intervention to a local facility... what do you think we can do about this crisis, I had asked the person as an introdutory stimulus to our conversing at a seminar!
emj
August 10th, 2010
Well done Christina for stepping up and taking responsibility.As a society that is what we should ideally all do but many of us have brought into the stigma associated with mental illness. To make a start, attend a mental health first aid course like this one http://www.mhfa.com.au/. There are many others like this one, so individuals can organize a course for their group/community/social circle. Yes, our medical staff should be better trained but they are often scared of legal constrants like Privacy laws when actually there are many studies which show that positive family involvement lead to better mental health outcomes.(Staff are also overwhelmed by a lack of resources, staffing and support).Yes, privacy issues are important for everyone's autonomy, but the family/concerned others should not be ignored. "Listening" to a family carer is not a breach of privacy.
DD
August 10th, 2010
The Four Corners programme on Mental Health Services which was broadcast on 10th August is well worth watching. You can catch it on a repeat broadcast, or on iView
The programme is focused on McKay in Queensland - There are many more vital points in it but there is one I want to pick up on because it heightens the point that I have been making - that rightly or wrongly, Health Services are not the same for all classes, and this impacts on their development
From about 33 minutes in there is a segment where two Health Professionals speak about the desperate lack of services in McKay. Both refer to the fact that they have sent patients up to thousands of kilometres to get the treatment they need
One specifically tells us that where the patient can afford it, he advises them to go to Melbourne where the services are far better. That is a good and responsible advice to give a patient- for it is the truth.
This is an illustration of the point that I made. In fact amongst the richer classes the search for all Health treatment may in fact be international. We have all probably contributed to patients - especially children - being sent for life saving treatment overseas. Where you have the money the treatment is available already. So why provide it to the general public?
This reality is pertinent to Abbott's own schemes relating to increased Mental Health funding. They look good until you realise that they are funded by stripping health reforms in other areas and that these areas are areas that impact on public health services - Peter is in fact under Abbott's schemes - all Abbott's electioneering promises - being robbed to pay Paul
The bottom line is that class based availability of Health Services is not acceptable. All of the people need all of the facilities. This will not occur until Health services are depoliticised by making them bipartisan areas in which the political parties work together for the common good. The first step in this direction has to be Federal control.
But how can we get this when the Coalition is so clearly a class and clique orientated and class based party. It gives this reality away again and again in its legislation such as WorkChoices - It has no concept of the idea that we are all created equal and that our disadvantages and dispossession are largely inherited socially not acquired through "talent"
Decent Health services along with decent education and decent accommodation require a more appropriate sharing of wealth in this society - how this levelling of the playing field is achieved should be the ideological aim of all parties
To seek a more egalitarian society is not to seek the abolition of Capitalism or entrepreneurism - it is rather to seek better regulatory and sharing policies that can be administered via legislation and new structures. The aim of social democracy should be to peacefully evolve such structures
It is a big job but in this evolution lies the sustainable prosperous and dignified society most of us seek, a society in which the vulnerable are properly serviced , housed and cared for.
BJM
August 11th, 2010
Warning to all bloggers:
Beware of DD/HW/Drakes Drum or whatever other name he choses to use - he is not good for your mental health. Anything you say will always be twisted back to the topic he thinks that this blog is here for - ignoring the stated reason for the blog.
Clearly he is paid by the Labor party to ensure that any blogger on this site is belittled, beraded and stomped on - so that anyone who says anything that might move from support of the Labor party - a ture bigot ...
His comments here have just proved that.
Any attempt to suggest that the Labor policy on mental health is better than the Liberal is clearly only coming from a blind supporter of Labor. I'd suggest you ask anyone suffering a mental illness if counselling will help - ask them what THEY need. Also - counselling AFTER an attempt at suicide.
What about all the suffering for the person concerned and their family / friend that lead to this point - and what if their first attempt is successful. It's too late - and it's not enough.
Counselling does NOT treat mental illness.
We MUST have early identification and early intervention to save LIVES.... and eliminate the suffering.
Don't listen to what DD is saying about cutting money from health reform programs - go and look at it for yourself - check it out on the Liberal party website.
I wll be voting Liberal - on the promise of these changes to mental health alone - because we are talking about saving lives - reducing the highest killer of our young people and improving the quality of life for long-term sufferers.
And then we will be holding them accountable to deliver on their promises - as we all know that all sides of politics sometimes don't come up with the goods... look at all the promises from Labor over the last term.
Stay focussed on the FACTS and seek an answer in your own heart as to who is providing the best outcome.
Peter Schuback
August 10th, 2010
Not only do we need to fix the mental health problem but we have to look at ways to house the 132,000 homeless . Give support ot foster parents , Look after carers , Look after our pensioners , In other words we need to look after AUSTRALIANS FIRST and we need to send any person that comes here with our permission straigh back to where they came from . We need to rebuild social justice and look after our own Peter Schuback Senate candidate for the Australia First party Queensland
Peter Schuback
August 10th, 2010
Your comment
Totally Frustrated
August 10th, 2010
I am a welfare worker who deals with the mental health issue daily! I work with mainly homeless men and women with an array of complex needs, but when you delve a little further you find these people have severe mental health problems with next to no support, for instance I had a guy asking me for help the other day and he turned out not to have had any contact with the mental health system for twelve years, his life has consisted of living out of bins and sleeping under bridges and this same type of story unfolds every day.Please more funding is needed Julia.
Anne White
August 11th, 2010
The Hawkesbury local group held a successful candle lit vigil at Hawkesbury Hospital last night. From the 7 Macquarie electorate candidates, we heard from Luke Portelli (CDP), Peter Whelan (LDP) and Susan Templeman (ALP)who all spoke with some passion on the policy and commitment ideas of their parties. We had an apology from Carmel McCallum (Greens) (due to an unfortunate clash of timetable) who agreed with what GetUp was calling for in the mental health reform arena. We started the evening with a very informative presentation from Maree Twomey, the coordinator of the Hawkesbury Bipolar Bears, http://www.hawkesburybipolarbears.com/. This self help mutually supportive group is doing much to fill the very wide gaps in the system.
BJM
August 11th, 2010
I attended a vigil last night too...
The format was less formal - really all the speaking came from those in attendance (only a small group of about 20 outside in pouring rain). So after a minutes silence the people there spoke.
Same old stories of difficulties with the system.
Change HAS to happen - it really isn't an option.
Just stop for a moment and think about the suffering - not just in the aftermath of suicide - but in the years leading to that point - and in the long-term sufferers of mental illness. If we truly believe that it's acceptable for this to continue then we should be ashamed of ourselves.
We need REAL money and REAL changes - not just band-aids that are to be applied after the pain. We need to HEAL the pain when it first starts - not when it's about to kill someone.
kay
August 11th, 2010
Do you realise that since the Better Access Program shut out tertiary educated Counsellors in favour of psychologists, social workers, occupational therapists and mental health nurses that many people wanting to access counselling through medicare are unable to do so as there are simply not enough Medicare providers to meet the need. Meanwhile many professional, highly qualified(in government accredited counselling courses) counsellors are sitting in their offices waiting for more clients.
AS one of those counsellors i reduced my fees to less than the gap paid to see a psychologist and included a discount for low-income people and pensioners and I am still forced to survive on Centrelink because my client base has all but disappeared.
Matt
August 14th, 2010
Kay,
Just to comment, I am the nurse unit manager of a mental health unit and have worked with some wonderful counsellors in the past. The problem is not the good ones, it is bad and unfortunately there is a large number of 'weekend warrior' counsellors that did a 6 week course and now consider themselves able to counsel people on any and every complaint that they have. A national registration program just like we have as nurses, psychologist and so on is the only way to prevent these hacks from further ruining the reputation of some great counsellors.
Kay
August 11th, 2010
Perhaps the governments in this country just need to re-assess where they are spending money. Less money for child-care for the well off, less money for having babies, less money for sport and sports stadiums, less money for unrealistic pension benefits for members of governments and post-service perks for them and their families then there might be more money for the important things like health care and support for the aged, disabled and orphaned.
Kay
August 11th, 2010
DD be careful what you say. You mention 'medically-qualified' psychology, what is that? then you talk about psychoanaylists who were/are not medically qualified. i am a post graduate qualified counsellor and in my course i studied more counselling modules than a psycholgist has to study but the government does not consider my qualifications good enough. Medical qualifications are not releveant to counselling as counsellors and psychologists do not prescribe mediction but we know a lot about mental illness. It is probably true that some forms of mental illness respond well to some medication but for conditions such as depression talk therapy aimed at getting to the root of the problem and helping people to learn to live with their condition in a positive way is needed in conjunction with the meds so that they do not have to be taken for life. I have suffered from depression most of my life but over the years i have learned to recognise the signals pre ceding a depressive episode and my doctor trusts me when i say I do or do not need medication. I educated my self about depression and i accept that it will come and go and will always be there somewhere but i now know that i get better faster without drugs and with talk and caring support.
DD
August 11th, 2010
I do not believe a person, Kay, who does not have full medical qualifications has any role in diagnosis, other than to refer a client (sic) to a doctor to become his patient (sic) for the purpose of formal diagnosis. Any other procedure is downright dangerous
I also find the use of pseudo-diagnoses such as Asperger's syndrome, irresponsible when applied by non medically qualified Psychologists. This also apples to ADD and ADHD where no doctor is involved
Your approach to depression does not give me a great deal of confidence in that you seem to be confusing sadness with depression. Once again I feel the actual diagnosis needs to be done by a doctor and only then should a psychologist have a role in treatment and counselling. It is a simple procedural change that I am suggesting
Psychology is closer, when it is not backed by medical training, to philosophy. Just as in the case of philosophy it can have a very great deal to offer. But I do think it is essential that a person consulting a psychologist unqualified as a doctor only, should realise that they are NOT getting MEDICAL treatment - and if their problem is a diagnosable condition then they should seek within the medical profession for parallel treatment, actual diagnosis, and monitoring
Not everyone who consults a Psychologist needs medical treatment - it depends on the nature of the problem. But in most cases the decision as to whether medical treatment is required should be made in consultation with a fully qualified medical doctor. this - I might add - was done in the case of my own ADD Child
New Age thinking sometimes adds to the problem of confusing people. I think the solution to this is that all practitioners dabbling in medical areas - including faith healers - should be held liable and accountable for their errors - in the same manner as doctors. If a psychologist encountering a medically sick person does not refer them to a medical doctor unless they themselves are one - they should be fined , made accountable, and struck off.
BJM
August 11th, 2010
Kay - I am concerned by what you are portraying here. For someone who is seriously ill counselling is completely inadequate. It should be provided as and additional service to psychiatry and psychology. Psychologists don't do as much counselling training because they aren't counsellors.
Each professional has an important part to play in the treatment of mental illness - as do family, religious support, work and friends.
To sell or propose that counselling is enough to 'treat' the mentally ill is dangerous and would be deadly if bought by the community as a whole.
You speak of 'talk therapy' - that is a 'therapy' and not 'counselling'. Counselling is not the only thing that a counsellor does and this does indeed need to be acknowledged.
But please do not proport that you can treat mental illness on your own.
My son is dead - and I largely believe it's because I couldn't get access - nor was I advised to seek psychiatric and psychological help earlier - the counsellors just kept recommending more counselling. By the time he was really sick he too was convinced that's all he needed.... clearly it wasn't.
What you say could be deadly. Are you really prepared to take responsibility if one of your 'patients' suicides because you took such a stand?
This is the most important thing - therapists of all sorts are never responsible when they fail to give the right advice and the 'patient' suicides......
Yes, Kay we all have a part to play and we all need to be able to work better together. I am sorry that you have had to battle lifelong depression, it is a terrible affliction, and because of this you are probably only too aware of system failures from both sides. Hopefully you have seen some positives as well. Some people with mental illneses of course require extended medications and intensive support.
DD
August 11th, 2010
This campaign is succeeding in assisting in getting questions of mental health properly on the agenda. I congratulate GetUp.
I wanted to say this because - especially at times like this - discussions can get a bit heated
I'd like to suggest that what is most important is not so much particular views - we are bound to disagree. What matters is that we bring all these issues out into the open and stop pretending these are simple matters that you can throw a handful of drugs and a pat on the back at.
Not for many years have I seen so much publicity given to mental Health issues and so many expressions of genuine concern
I'd just like to add my voice in terms of solidarity with the people out there going through difficult times. Many of us have had to live from hour to hour and one day at a time to get through personal crises. We often understand far better than we might admit
Hang in there - people are beginning to show concern like never before - the demands for help are getting through.
Stay with us as people we can learn from as well as assist. We need you.
naive
August 12th, 2010
Yes you will have no argument from me about mental health, a terrible terrible thing to have to live through for all concerned. Throwing money at it by the bucket full is only a band aide, real help starts from home and our way of life.
Phyllis Jackson
August 13th, 2010
How about the the links that this so called Australian of the year has to being a puppet of the big pharmaceutical companies?(and yes he has recieved kick backs from these companies) and the reports that they are diagnosing teenagers of pre psychosis ( of which there is no scientific or medical basis for such diagnosis) symptoms and putting them on medication that in fact damages not only the neurological functioning of the mind and body, it is also extremely harmful to a persons personal growth...a PILL is no answer for the mental health issue. It's time to look at the mind body connection...and there is dozens and dozens of natural holistic modalities that actually DO WORK!!!!!
Even try laughing for a month and see how good our mental health is then!!!
When was the last time you actually laughed and laughed until ur face got perma grin :) think about it!!!!!!!
BJM
August 13th, 2010
There's nothing 'so called' about Patrick McGorry being Australian of the Year - that happened in January 2010.
I've seen nothing in all of his writings to indicate that he supports medication over therapy - in fact what I've read is that early identification and early intervention is the best chance for our mentally ill teens to live fully productive lives - without medication or with minimal medication.
As the parent of a teen who suicided - and a holistic healer - allow me to inform you that holistic medicine cannot treat mental illness on it's own. Any holistic healer who disregards the role of traditional medicine (physical or mental) isn't being very 'holistic'.
My son was very much into all the natural therapies and these things he would soak up - what he needed was denied him by the mental health system. Mental illness is not feeling 'sad'. It is serious and it is life threatening.
The current system turns our teens away time and time again - and they end up dead too many times.
If you want to know the truth about suicide read the statistics and the submissions to the recent senate enquiry. Go to a suriviors of suicide support group - and you will discover just how dangerous your comments can be.
There is a place for natural therapies - and there's even a place for spiritual healing (including psychics if you are so inclined) but it will not TREAT mental illness.
BJM
August 13th, 2010
We are seeing repeated comments implying that counselling / natural therapies etc being able to treat mental illness.
I just want to draw an analogy here. If someone has an appendix that's about to burst - you don't send them to a naturopath or healer - you don't send them to a yoga instructor to learn to relax. Any practitioner of any modality - whether health, wellness or spiritual that failed to refer this person to a medical surgeon would ethically be guilty of murder.
There is only one treatment for an appendix that's about to burst - it must come out.
We all know that. That's a fact. Following surgery there are ways to deal with the pain and to rebuild the body that these practitioners might be able to provide that are better for a persons overall well being - but the surgery has to happen.
Someone who is mentally ill is exactly the same. It is not the place of any practitioner to diagnose or assess mental illness. They do have a role to play and can be a vital part of the 'holistic' approach to treatment and maintenance. But mental illness MUST be diagnosed by a qualified psychiatrist. Even a qualified psychologist will refer someone to a psychiatrist for diagnosis.
This is a large part of the problem with children and teens - they are not given the medical attention that they need - instead they are sent to counsellors to help them deal with their teenage 'angst' or their childhood behavioural problems.
Please beware that you could be overlooking someone who is actually mentally ill and not just sad or upset.
This is a life and death decision on the part of all practitioners.
charles
August 13th, 2010
Exactly. Counsellors vary in their skills from those like the Salvation Army and Police officers who are often the first on the scene in the case of grief or depression showing it's head, up to those who are fully trained to counsel people over the long-term and determine if further help is required.
They are part of a circle and cycle that is there to deal with mental health. If discussion is all thats needed, then they should be skilled enough to determine this. Likewise, they should be skilled enough to determine that deeper or more specific issues exist that a psychologist should look into and refer them to one. The psychologists job is then to root out these issues and return the parient to the counsellor with these core issues known and addressed, to be then better counselled over the long-term with a greater understanding. But psychologists are also skilled to determine if a psychiatrist is needed to deal with some mental issues that are likely to be caused by a physical problem as opposed to a purely psychological one, and they refer them appropriately and work with the psychiatrists in this.
My Granny ran a hospital in Sydney which dealt with children with severe mental disabilities for many years and assures me that psychologists and psychiatrists needed to deal together closely in cases that were difficult to determine between the physiological and psychological. Counselors are now a part of this team as well and a team is certainly what we need these experts to be if they're to provide the best service possible for diagnosis and care for patients.
I can still remember playing in the observation room with all the toys and the one-way mirror with my sister as a child. It was only in later years that I learned my Granny had most of the doctors on the other side of the mirror so they could observe mentally healthy children, interacting in the room to have a better baseline for diagnosis of those with issues... Maybe we were poor examples and set the baseline too low, heh. ;P
BJM
August 13th, 2010
I agree - the problem is that counsellors are not necessarily qualified and this is evidenced in the lack of regulation of this profession. Any self-regulated profession leaves it open to problems.
As a parent I would advise that reliance on counsellors to actually do that early identification correctly is wrong - children should see a developmental pediatrician and teens should see a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist.
If whatever therapy / treatment (that includes counselling psychotherapy) you choose to start with isn't providing good solid result - go to someone who is qualified.
I know the system is broken and even if you get to see a psychologist or psychiatrist you might not get the help needed - but don't hesitate to engage with this sytem.
I was at no point told about the Headspace program and many other things I've found out about since loosing my teen. However, I was actively engaged with them all pediatricians, counsellors, psychologists and psychiatrists and also natural healers.
They should work as a team - and they should all have one thing and one thing only in mind - the welfare of the client. They don't have anything to prove and they have a responsibility to the client and should be held accountable if the advice given is wrong or the treatment provided or not provided is inappropriate. These decisions are a matter of life and death.
This is what they all seem to forget.
And Charles - I'm sure your Granny wouldn't have suggested using you and your sister if she didn't have faith that you were both mentally healthy children.
God bless her and the work she did.
DD
August 13th, 2010
In this I agree with much that you are saying here BJM
One of the side effects of inadequate mental health services is the growth of a compensatory superstition. Much - I fear - can be traced to the involvement of American Fundamentalists from the Bible Belt and of traditional early nineteen thirties Catholics in what should have been a medical task - that of coming to terms with alcoholism and dug addiction in the nineteen thirties. The intentions were good, but statistically the success rate is in fact questionable
This led to concepts of alcoholism that tried to circumvent the co-existence in many alcoholics of mental disorders. The "mental, physical, spiritual" analysis of the alcoholic "character" was not intrinsically dangerous, but its application tended to lead to a new belief in "miracles" and a clinging to old, pre-Enlightenment, belief systems- and this idea of spiritual healing and anti scientism, has crept into both mental and physical medicine. I have a friend who recently died of cancer which was not properly treated because she was receiving "traditional Ukrainian Medicine" and through it rejected proper treatment
I remember one case when an alcoholic friend was experiencing an actual seizure - which was regarded by the lay people around her as " the dry horrors" - Her life was actually saved by someone who saw through this nonsense and sent for medical aid - with the opposition of the group.
Historically, as the old religious patterns broke down, this breakdown tended to lead - via a combination of innocent "New Age" and outright charlatanism - to the muddying of the waters of mental and physical health treatment with a lot of rather silly and eccentric ideas. Despite a Fundamentalist and Catholic Traditionalist revival this secondary New Age infection continues
We need to get back to medical science - and this means putting qualified medical practitioners and not medically unqualified counsellors and psychologists (and charlatans) back in the front line. Whatever route a person takes to receiving counselling and treatment, qualified medical assessment needs to be placed immediately at the core of his assessment and treatment
I am unconvinced that a lazy and mean State reliance on the supposed "existence of alternative paths" that the State does not fund hasn't actually been at the core of much distress and even suicide. In order to save funds Governments pretend that facilities are there through the churches, lay organisations, and social groupings that in reality not only cannot do the job but in individual cases can actually do damage. These organisations sometimes even reject helping people unless they share their "spiritual beliefs" I have encountered this especially with certain capital city based Fundamentalist evangelical "churches" - which even receive some government funding for their supposed social work - the money is effectively being used as a "conversion by emotional blackmail" fund. Worse still people are sometimes even officially referred to these organisations instead of to doctors.
I think it is time an apolitical standing committee was founded to totally re-examine mental health treatment. I hope that after the election a reformed Liberal Party may be more inclined to work in a bipartisan fashion -but I fear it will take an election defeat to get that part of our body politic back on track
Hopefully with the change in leadership of the ALP the body politic is beginning to heal. That is why I would not like to see it diverted from this course by a useless and disruptive change of Government. We have a situation now where these matters are at the forefront of public awareness - we need to build on that and not take a step backwards into an old Howard regime ethos that is further constrained by a far from quaint medieval Catholicism
BJM
August 13th, 2010
Oooo..... don't tell me I hit a nerve.... the facts please.
You claim that Labor have a policy on mental health - please share it.
I heard Ms Gillard annouce $277 million - largely to provide counselling for those that have attempted suicide and to increase funding for Lifeline. Neither of these will actually provide any real assistance to the mentally ill. So - they don't really have a policy on mental health.
I think too before you go ranting about the depletion of health services in the states - I do need to point out that it was Labor policy that implemented medibank and then medicare that ruined a great free health system here in Qld - and it was Labor who closed down the mental health institutes rather than dealing with some abuse issues that were identified inside. It was Labor that threw the mentally ill into the community with $5,000 to fend for themselves, not the Liberal party or the conservatives.
You are the one claiming that this debate isn't crossing party lines - you draw the line and I crossed it - then when you don't like what I said - you claim we aren't crossing party lines.
The Labor party had the opportunity to remove the issue of mental health from the political agenda - all they had to do was implement the recommendations from their National Health and Hospitals Reform Commission Report released over a year ago.
It is what it is because all governments have failed to address the needs of the mentally ill over the years. The last injection of funds into mental health was in Howards last term. There have been many reports and enquiries yet not enough substantial change. The hospitals should never have been closed.
There have been a number of stories on TV and in the paper and on talk-back radio. The story is the same - funding has to be provided. A bipartisan approach is certainly the best outcome. That means that Labor has to provide the same changes that the Liberals are offering.
If they don't I'll be voting against them - because I choose to care about the lives of our young people enough to do so.
When GetUp asked us a few weeks ago to write to the Labor Senate members and explain why we are interested in mental health and why it's an extremely important issue to us individually, I wrote to every politician that might have an interest - include the entire senate, the minister for health and the shadow minister along with my local member and others. Interestingly, I received an enormous response - all from the Liberal party members and from the Greens. Interestingly nothing what so ever from any Labor member - senate, ministerial or local. That is again FACT.
In relation to community groups that provide support to the mentally ill - well this has to happen because the government doesn't and we all know that the vast majority of community groups are somehow connected to the church of some sort. These groups if you'd ever had anything to do with them provide counselling and hands-on support to those who are ill - many don't just refer them but actually take them to the doctor and don't pretend that they can treat mental illness. These groups are the back bone of our society and provide the greatest support to all who have less than the rest of us not just the mentally ill. Throwing mud at these groups is not going to win you any support.
Someone attempts suicide every 8 minutes - think about the pain and anquish and suffering in the lives of these people and those around them - that's one every 8 minutes.
Suicide is the largest killer of under 44yr olds in this country - that's more than road cancer and heart disease. It only come third in over 44yr olds where it places after heart disease and cancer.
These are the FACTS - undeniable facts.
We loose more teens to mental illness than to road accidents - yet we spend more on road safety campaigning than we do on raising awareness and destigmatisation of mental illness.
These are FACTS - not about one party versus the other... plain FACTS!!!
DD
August 14th, 2010
You express your concept of a Bipartisan approach as follow and it is actually quite funny - It greeted me as I turned on my computer on a sunny Saturday morning:
"A bipartisan approach is certainly the best outcome. That means that Labor has to provide the same changes that the Liberals are offering."
No Mr Party Worker that is not what constitutes a bipartisan approach. A Bipartisan approach is one in which parties work together to create the most suitable structures
Your expressed idea is that the Government fund Liberal promises which the Liberal Party in fact have no intention of ever actually implementing. We are not deluded that anything Abbott says would ever eventuate. Only structural change EVER brings results and such proposals are not on the table from the Coalition. In fact a retreat seems more on the cards - an overall reduction in services
Your "idea" of bipartisanship is the attempt of the Howard/Abbott ultra Conservative group that sees itself as "the Government in Exile" to rule a people that voted against them - it is derisory
I do not see any hope for improvements in Health until the entire social problem is addressed. Piecemeal promises will do nothing more than create new indolent bureaucracies that disburse the funds amongst the administrators
We need a national plan to provide not just medical services but housing, work opportunities including sheltered workshops, sheltered communities and homes
We need better education on the nature of mental illness within our schools - creating an ability to recognise problems of mental health - in fact we need to work on building a new social democratic ethos accompanied by a deeper and more rewarding, financially accessible, culture. Good life must be the right of all - not the privilege of a few. People suicide because they lose hope - we have to put that hope back into our society - that means jobs - opportunities, training, education and life counselling that has something material to offer and not just soft words. People need OPTIONS that provide prosperity a path to a good future
We need to work towards a more egalitarian society that does not excessively and ridiculously over-reward one tiny group whilst a vast area that includes the mentally ill are left to flounder as an underclass. In many cases forced to live in filth. Maybe when someone suicides we should actually examine what that sufferer actually had that was theirs and theirs alone and what real hope they had
That is the kind of area I believe we need a "bipartisan approach" on
And if there is one tiny cost free change I would make to helping the mentally ill it is to stop the spreading of institutional hatred as directed against Sanctuary seekers and indigenous people - and I fear that the Coalition has been the very worst offenders here. That hatred of the weak eventually always end up at the door of all marginalised and vulnerable people
Compassion displayed in one area become compassion displayed in all areas. To save one life is to save the entire world - Got It?
Probably not (sigh)
BJM
August 14th, 2010
DD we had many comments about the harm of believing that counselling can treat mental health - I can't let this comment from you go.
You said: "People suicide because they lose hope - we have to put that hope back into our society - that means jobs - opportunities, training, education and life counselling that has something material to offer and not just soft words. People need OPTIONS that provide prosperity a path to a good future".
This kind of comment is potentially as harmful or maybe more than the belief that counselling alone can treat mental illness.
Where did you get this information from? I would like to understand on what basis are you making this comment.
Suicide is often the long term fatal outcome of a disease process. If young people (or the vulnerable) are in fact ill and they don't have these things then it might add to their suffering, however the lack of these things does not cause suicide. I don't believe there's any evidence or studies that show anything different and if there are I would be extremely interested to have access to them.
It would be a much simpler problem if we could stop suicide by providing these things.
The facts are that suicide doesn't discriminate on race, financial status, employment or any thing else.
What I have noticed is that when a young person is ill then they have difficulties maintaining employment, often loose their homes - so these things are in fact a side-effect of illness.
For all bloggers - it is these simple 'impressions' that are created by some that feed the stigmatisation of mental ilness. Depression isn't just sadness and depression isn't the only cause of suicide. You can't give someone who is depressed a job and expect them to 'get over it' - it doesn't work like that. Please learn about what mental illness is and try to stop yourself from building this kind of stigma.
This change can only occur in each and every one of us - for this kind of change - a change to acceptance and understanding starts in your heart - and this is what will lead to a willingness to provide support.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
I can assure all readers and participants in the blog that I am NOT what DD keeps referring to as something along the lines of 'a party man'. I am a concerned parent whose heart and soul were shattered 4 months ago when my 19 year old son committed suicide. After being turned away for years by the mental health system even though every psychiatrist who saw him agreed that there was something serious wrong - with many 'possible' diagnoses. The one thing they agreed on was depression.
They all agreed that he was a threat to himself, his criminal behaviour and agression showed he was a threat to his family. Yet they refused to do any more than send him home with anti-depressants that he had gotten sick of taking and would in the end refuse because they didn't help him.
I speak here for change in the mental health system so that maybe just 1 life might be saved and one family might not have to go through what we went through.
Society (and I include in there Patrick McGorry and John Mendoza and many other professionals) have been fighting for improved services for a long time. There have been some improvements - the small number of Headspace centres are an example. The call from GetUp for the headspace centres and early intervention centres and the other things they are calling for (see at https://www.getup.org.au/files/campaigns/gtfactsheetmentalhealth.pdf) will bring about a major improvement and is on the start.
Read that fact sheet you will see the horrifying stats....
Things MUST change - or we are as a society responsible of major neglect and we are failing our duty of care to every teen and young person 14 - 25yrs old. Nothing less!!!!
BJM
August 14th, 2010
Definitions for bipartisan:
supported by both sides; "a two-way treaty" OR In a two-party system, bipartisan refers to any bill, act, resolution, or any other action of a political body in which both of the major political parties are in agreement.
Given that the mental health reform is now on the political agenda - the only way that we can reach a bipartisan point is for Labor to match what the Libs are offering.
Or do you suggest that the libs reduce their offer.
It IS on the political ticket because the reforms were left out of the health reform package - you can't change it any other way now.
Any suggestion to reduce what the libs are offering shows a lack of understanding and a lack of compassion for those with mental illness.
No one would disagree that there needs to be more services than what the libs are saying. That is something that I wrote to ALL politicians about. However, the country doesn't have any money left and so it has to start somewhere and this is the best on offer.
This will also impact these other areas as a pass-on effect. If we identify and treat mental illness early in teens and keep them productive members of society and reduce the damaging impact to their lives - then the need for housing and other services will reduce - as they will be healthy - certainly long-term this would be the case.
Any desire to hold up the change that is suggested by Patrick McGorry to wait for the other services is simply turning your back on the need of these young people.
We MUST have CHANGE - it isn't an option.
August 13th, 2010
A friend informed me about GetUp - I shall also spread the word. What GetUp and the Professor is doing is remarkable and also vital. My sister has suffered from Bipola for over 15 years and my Mother now is also suffering from depression. My Father died in Octobr 2009 and now my Mother cannot even get into a care facility because there are not enough resources and facilities to look after my Mother. I hear more and more each day people suffering from mental illness. It is very prevalent in our society today and we need our Politican's to start taking it very seriously and address this problem before it gets even worse.
BJM
August 13th, 2010
My son suicided in April this year - in the south east corner of Qld alone I have personally met 8 families of teens who have suicided in the past 6 months - all under 25. That doesn't include the 4 that I have met who have lost older children - in their 30s - all under 44.
They are all asking the same question.... where was the help when they needed it.
4 families have REAL issues with their children being turned away by the system or being mis-treated and/or prescribed the wrong medication.
There is no comfort for me or any of these new friends of mine in the system changing now.... but we are all in agreement when we say that it MUST change...
We have to STOP these senseless deaths that are occurring largely because the system is broken.
And as I said before, the pain of the families left behind doesn't touch on the pain of those that suicided and the suffering of those who are still here with mental illness.
Every time I speak to someone about their experience in the mental health system it's heartbreaking.
If we can actually say that this is acceptable then we should be ashamed of ourselves - completely ashamed.
BJM
August 13th, 2010
DD I would support that call.
If they don't want to donate to the government - so that it might be wasted... then fund a specific service...
And I totally agree with your comment: "Talmud teaches that we need to look at each individual as if he or she were the entire population of the world. Therefore, when you save one life it is as if you saved the entire world, and are truly blessed for it" and I believe this is similar in most teachings....
We need to look to ourselves... we can change the attitude of society toward the mentally ill - and make it more comfortable for them to get the help that they need.
My heart is broken, my family and friends, my daughter and her friends and my sons own friends lives are changed forever.... and this is just my own personal loss.... and the difficulties that he lived with resulted in such major impact while he was still here. His struggle was clear to all of us. He was a gentle loving boy who genuinely cared about others. I have seen him literally give his last cent to someone who had less than him (and he didn't have much).
Programs such as GROW and the Mental Illness Fellowship are good places to start.
These groups actually get out into the community and work with the ill.
Everyone who has a teenager or loved one under 44 has a vested interest in these changes being put in place.
Continue to lobby your local member - these changes MUST be implemented.
They've been identified again and again in enquiry after enquiry - but recommendations that come out of these are yet to be implemented.
Essential services should NOT be political vote-scoring topics - they should be provided by whatever government is in power at the time - it should be their 'business as usual'.... this MUST change.
It's not all about funding - because the private sector isn't any better. Underlying it all is an attitude of arrogance from practitioners - I've even seen righteous indignation and a failure to take responsibility for how they treat their clients and no accountability at all.
Matt
August 14th, 2010
BJM although I agree this is tragic, you don't seem to have any real idea of the concept of health provision in particular with reference to people with addiction. The simple point with addiction is if the person does not want to quit, then they will not. You quite quickly blame the doctor here, when actually a lot of the time these anti anxiety drugs are acquired illegally. Sold by a number of people including elderly people that like to supplement their pension incomes. So before you blame the health professional please understand there is a good chance that he never saw a doctor and therefore was never assessed. I am a practitioner and I can honestly say that there is more to many of these stories than you can ever know. Please don't demonize us, a lot of us are doing the best we can with the system we have.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
Matt I wasn't trying to demonise you - it is a fact that we don't know - and rather than demonising a man who was clearly troubled we should look to see beyond that.
I did in fact say that we have to ask the question. Are you trying to tell me that he didn't have a mental illness. How could you know??
I'm sorry but the practitioners that I have had dealings with dismiss addicts rather than supporting them. It's a fact that about 80% of addicts have mental health issues. There are dual diagnosis policies at a federal level and at all states - which in my experience are completely ignored.
And about 80% of those in jail also suffer from mental health disorders / illnesses. They don't belong in jail.
I took the article at face value and without knowing anything further - I have to believe that the anti-anxiety drugs were prescribed.
Mental Health practitioners have to be prepared to be accountable - and they aren't.
Sorry - I'm talking from personal experience.
The system is broken - and as a practitioner you would know that.
Too often people who truly need help are turned away with disasterous outcomes - and this story could be one of those. It might be possible that this poor guy had more than addictions (which are in themselves mental health problems).
DD
August 14th, 2010
A little more - too many people in our society get only so far and then hit a barrier they cannot get through. For the suffering and vulnerable and indeed the dispossessed, this barrier is quickly reached
All present programs seem to do - much of the time - is move that barrier a little further out or try to get the vulnerable to be compliant first and cope second. Moving the barrier out might seem like improvement but for the person hitting the barrier the experience is the same and the reaction is the same - despair
The barrier is largely constructed of social disadvantage, and this is what we need to work on removing This needs a much more prosperous concept of what comprises a minimal standard of living
It needs to be a level of security, nutrition and prosperity on which a person able to go further can build of his own efforts
Our present situation is that a disadvantaged person is cruelly dragged down further by our society rather than supported. When we grasp that and work to do something to improve our social structures the benefits will follow - most especially for the suffering in our society
But it will take a will to share that includes a demand to share. Are we ready for that - especially the second.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
DD once again you are simplifying the cause of mental illness and blaming it on 'barriers'. Mental illness doesn't just single out the 'vulnerable and dispossessed'.
We have had many comments about the harm of believing that counselling can treat mental health - This kind of comment is potentially as harmful or maybe more than the belief that counselling alone can treat mental illness.
Where did you get this information from? I would like to understand on what basis are you making this comment.
It would be a much simpler problem if we could stop suicide and prevent mental illness by providing these things.
The facts are that suicide and mental illness doesn't discriminate on race, financial status, employment or any thing else.
What I have noticed is that when a someone is ill then they have difficulties maintaining employment, often loose their homes - so these things are in fact a side-effect of illness.
For all bloggers - it is these simple 'impressions' that are created by some that feed the stigmatisation of mental ilness. Depression isn't just sadness and depression isn't the only cause of suicide. You can't give someone who is depressed a job and expect them to 'get over it' - it doesn't work like that. Please learn about what mental illness is and try to stop yourself from building this kind of stigma.
This change can only occur in each and every one of us - for this kind of change - a change to acceptance and understanding starts in your heart - and this is what will lead to a willingness to provide support.
DD
August 14th, 2010
I am not simplifying the cause of mental illness far from it. In fact in my opinion as a medical category it is very questionable in that it lumps together a large number of mutually unrelated problems, Mental Health seems in many ways to be at the stage cancer was many years ago
In those days cancer was treated as if it were one physical disorder instead of being a multitude of different diseases that needed separate as well as associated research. When we got beyond the "one treatment fits all" stage then we started to make great inroads into preventing, arresting and even curing cancer. I had a school friend who died forty five years ago of a cancer that started in his leg - he would probably have survived now
To state that a mental illness can strike anywhere is to state the obvious. Just as to state that many individual cases are exacerbated or brought on through deprivation and social conditions . There is nothing revolutionary here. But somehow it is "revolutionary" to say that were society more compassionate, sharing and egalitarian - more based on Human Rights, sharing and a loving concern for others our suffering people could have a far better life and some might not even get ill in the first place
Can you imagine how degrading it is to be taught one must learn to cope rather than be encouraged to participate to ones full potential in life, because that is what we are doing to people. We are blaming people for their illnesses or their poverty, telling them they have to "take responsibility". I'm sorry but I think it is about time we turned to our Governments and said - "You have a duty of care for all our citizens - the playing off of one class against another has to stop it is killing people. It is time YOU took responsibility"
Imagine for one moment we were constructing a society "in a vacuum" trying to work out what would be a successful and sustainable structure that rewarded ability and excellence at the same time as catering for and caring for all the people. Include in the equation people with mental and physical problems - People who are old and people who are young. Include in your structures matter such as cultural availability, participation leisure and entertainment. How do you organise society to feed support and nurture . How can you build structures that allow everyone to feel respected, appreciated, secure, and not alienated
Would your equations produce anything like the frequently collapsing brutal market economy we have. Would people have to BEG for needed services? - I don't think so. I think that theoretically created society would be very different and that ideal is certainly NOT the direction Abbott is pointing in
Within present society some of us see these contrasts very clearly and want to work towards a better and inclusive sustainability so why insult us?
Loss of homes should not be a "side effect of illness" any more than loss of life should be. There is a very great deal that we can do to minimise all forms of social harm and provide people with a human rights based platform from which they can build to their maximum capacity - or at which they can rest and recover - or remain secure and serviced and protected
And in all this is there anything I am really saying more than what some call the second commandment - "to love your neighbour as yourself"
And if there were one thing above all other that I would throw at the Coalition - for all its self righteous arrogance, its attempts to pander to a Right Wing Christian lobby it has yet to learn that simple command that appears in all cultures and should be the corner stone of our democracy, our treatment of refugees, of the sick and vulnerable, and our determination to eradicate poverty and provide genuine hope
I am sorry if I offend you - I guess it is just something my own father passed on to me. I grew up with pictures on the wall of children of many races and creeds - I worked alongside people whose families were traumatised by war and the Holocaust. I have known people succumb to mental illness and even to commit suicide. I have seen the good and the bad
Over sixty years of an unusually varied life experience in which I have lived as a participant and as a visitor in different countries - that is where I get my information from - a lifetime in which i have known Schizophrenics and bipolar persons a friends, together with alcoholics drug addicts and people suffering clinical depression. I have dealt with problems such as ADD in my own family and suffered the effects of some trauma and alienation myself. I have sat with traumatised girls who have had illegal abortions and in rooms full of people on drugs
There is much more BJM - yes I am sorry at a grass roots level I am an expert on a number of things just as you are. And if you think my conclusions stated here are merely party political affiliations then I am afraid you really don't see as I do - most especially that only action produces results - Election promises produce nothing except disappointment. Follw the path of selecting a Government on the basis of "promises" then you may well end up with something you really do not want
Ask a German or an Italian who is now in his eighties and older. He'll tell you that what we should watch is not the promises but the actions especially when what the party seeking government seems to be saying could be summed up so easily by the old Italian election slogan:
"Noi Representiamo Uno Ordo Nuove del Monde" I read that fading on a post house wall in Italy. It was signed "Mussolini" Abbott sound all too like him at times - sweeping away "industrial chaos" fighting the "power of union bosses" - all of it wrapped up in a parcel of denial of environmental degradation due to climate change
charles
August 14th, 2010
Sorry, I'm not really getting what a 70 year old Itallian facist slogan has to do with suicidal depression and mental health. A quick check shows that during Howard's years, from 1997 to 2006 suicide rates dropped from about 15 per 100,000 to around 9 per 100,000. Hopefully we can keep clear of the idea that either government's election into parliament will automatically lead to an increase in suicide rates regardless of their mental health policy and actually focus on their policies, plans and promises in this area.
I also hope we can stop bashing organisations of faith considering that many of them are the ones supplying initial counseling and even long-term counseling to the suicidal and mentally ill who can't get professional help. I'd like to assure people that in my experience they do their best to get these people professional help and care beyond what they acknowledge to be the meager skills they possess but these people are often not in a financial position to afford private help and currently turned away from an under-funded public system. Faith groups are among the groups assisting drug users and alcoholics to try and give up their addictions as well as victims of family abuse and bullying. They're not fully skilled for it but lacking an alternative for them to guide people too they're better than nothing and I'm thankful for their efforts which helped me through depression as a teenager. Its my understanding that Christian, Muslim and Jewish groups together with other faiths, all provide these services to their communities and I hope that whichever government gets in they'll improve the professional services out there so these groups can hand over the burden they've taken upon themselves to do what little they can for the desperate.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
Charles - you are spot on... it is these groups that provide the most practical support to sufferers of mental health illnesses and mental health issues.
They do the best that they can - and do it from the heart and a sense of social responsibility.
DD
August 14th, 2010
Many faith based organisations do excellent work but they should not be used as a substitute for secular based treatment and support facilities, nor relied on by Governments. Nor do I think they should be financially supported by Government to providewhat in any geographical area is unique as against complementary services
I do not think that faith based alcoholism and drug addiction groups of the Twelve Steps variety have anything like the success they imagine and research seems to support this conclusion. I think the Oxford Groups/Moral Rearmament based fellowships really belong to the past - to a time when religious breakdown was more of a factor in certain kinds of illness or "behaviour". Too many mainstream institutions still rely on these fellowships. They work for some people but not everyone and - contrary to AA thinking it is NOT the sufferers fault - nor the fault of the disorder
We live in a far more secular age. Our religions are becoming less theistic in nature - which is why theologians such as John Shelby Spong - the former Episcopalian bishop Of Newark - have such a large following. To be non-Theistic is not to be a person lacking in faith nor indeed is being secular in approach a similar sign. Frequently it just indicates the person has spiritually and intellectually grown and moved on
Thus our society's treatment facilities and counselling facilities need to operate in an entirely new environment, one that is beyond religion. Not to do that is often to let the sufferer down by pandering to a minority's personal religious beliefs and prejudices
The faith based fellowships and especially the Twelve Steps variety have - almost accidentally I fear - encouraged a Fundamentalist attitude in religion. At times one wonders if the joking AA dictum - we are the sort of organisation you would expect an organisation run by drunks to be - might not these days be applied to number of Fundamentalist and Creationist denominations. When I look at the theological backwardness of certain Australian dioceses... (continued page 94) ... Acceptance is not always the way forward and nor is surrender
Surrounding Faith based fellowships there is a myth - that if a particular path is followed success will "always" be the result. It is - for example - a "Big Book" myth The truth is very different to that - that path is far less open to everyone than groups of fellowship adherents realise. For proper analysis of these groups as treatment facilities you must look elsewhere for information - look at what has happened since the days of Bill Wilson the founder of AA - and of Jellinek and his predecessors who originated the disease concept of alcoholism
Again this is a simply massive area - that we can barely touch on in a blog discussion. My personal belief is that the whole area of mental illness - diagnosis, support, and treatment, including substance abuse aspects is like an omelette that desperately needs unscrambling. The task is daunting but there is no way forward until we do
charles
August 14th, 2010
I don't believe I suggested that the faith groups should be used as a substitute, Nor do I believe they kid themselves into thinking that they do a better job than professional services. I'm telling you they currently are a substitute thanks to the lack of government facilities and they've taken it upon themselves to provide what service they can to the community to fill this void left by the underfunded public services. I've little doubt that they'll happily hand over the task to a better funded public service as soon as it can take these desperate people off their hands and focus their efforts to the next area of community need such as the Salvation Army's Outback Flying service in Mt Isa or Muslim healcare initiatives. Personally I fully support faith groups making an effort to provide community services beyond simply trying to "spread the good word". I see it as them practicing what they preach.
On a side note it was NEVER ONCE suggested to me that I could solve all my depression problems through God and devotion to the church or any such thing. I've been involved with their drug counselling services as well and I can assure you that these groups are not attempting Moral Rearmament to resolve people's issues or trying to preach their ideology and values through them. Nor are they anything so vile as terrorist recruitment initiatives in the cases of Muslim services as I'm sure some might believe.
I agree that diagnosis and treatment needs to come from our public health system but I'm grateful to the faith groups for practicing what they preach and providing what service they could to the desperate where our underfunded public health system has fallen short. Just as friends and family can be wonderful supporters to the suicidal and mentally ill, I'm sure the faiths will continue to be supportive where they can as well.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
I believe that the best way to 'treat' mental illness is through a holistic integrative approach to all care provider. This includes the psychiatrist, the psychologist, the GP, the psychotherapist and the counsellor and a chaplain. This acknowledges the multifacited nature of human beings - the physical, the mind, the emotional and the spiritual.
It's important that they work together - and the church groups provide a much needed support but are not as already stated able or qualified to 'treat', and they don't try to.
Each of the practitioner types have a part to play and should be involved and should talk to each other and integrate the services - that's the best way.
BJM
August 14th, 2010
For bloggers trying to make sense of what DD says here:
non-theistic is atheism - Theistic means believes in a god or gods. Non means doesn't or none. So if you put them together you get the meaning which is "Doesn't beleive in any god."
Secular - is the state of being separate from religion.
They are not the same thing. Many christians and churches believe that the state should be serparate from the church - which is the way that most countries run. The church does not rule the country and/or make laws.
However the very concept that "To be non-Theistic is not to be a person lacking in faith" is flawed. If you don't believe in God / Gods then what do you have 'faith' in. It's true that you can have faith in yourself or in other things - but I think in the context - it does in fact mean that you are non-theistic you don't have faith in any kind of God.
What any of this has to do with mental health is still escaping me.
The truth is - and ask those suffering - that it is the church and church groups that meet the most practical requirements of the mentally ill in our society - not only these groups - but largely. I guess the question is do these groups then expect the person to be of the same faith - or to have faith themselves - mostly no. I guess you can only discover this by being involved with them.
DD
August 15th, 2010
In fact if you step back you will see you have answered your own question concerning what this has to do with mental health, BJM. It lies in your own conceptualisation which is expressed in your post as the "multifacited nature of human beings - the physical, the mind, the emotional and the spiritual.'
In addition your concept of an integrated holistic approach "includes the psychiatrist, the psychologist, the GP, the psychotherapist and the counsellor and a chaplain."
Thus in this you acknowledge - rightly or wrongly that a "spiritual" element has an important role to play. This I might add was precisely the Oxford Groups thinking and underpinned Bill Wilson's AA Twelve Steps approach - itself adopted by other groups dealing more specifically with areas of mental illness
On a historical note the Oxford Groups became the core of the organisation known as Moral Rearmament a grouping that was rather late in detaching itself from Fascism and rather forward in its stance against Socialism.
Thus to claim that concepts of spirituality are not relevant in relation to the use of Faith based groups as support groups in mental health and substance abuse areas is rather to go against your own arguments. AA itself holds "spiritual concept" meetings
I will deal with your incorrect definitions in a separate post
But one final point - what is the real meaning of "What any of this has to do with mental health is still escaping me." In fact I suggest in your case it is rather on the lines of "my faith based views are correct and belong in the area of mental health and substance treatment and for this reason I don't want them opened to discussion"
Which is precisely what I am concerned about - that the Faith based groups and services are starting from a backward view of spirituality and this clashes with the newer world of many of those they seek - quite sincerely and selflessly - to help. They need to modernise their conceptual basis and medicine itself should remain secular and provide secular facilities for support , treatment and recovery
We actually lose people because of these faith based approaches - as well as save them. Rejection of their approach by a sufferer is not rejection of treatment or denial - rather it is rejection of a particular religious approach - one that is inclined to permeate every utterance of the leading counsellor
charles
August 15th, 2010
I'm glad that you acknowledge that faith based approaches also save people. You're acknowledging that a great many people of faith (over 60% of Australians) benefit by having faith based services as part of a holistic approach to their mental health issues. However I would suggest that your line of thinking is "My Anti-faith based views are correct and Muslims, Christians, Jews and other faiths should be completely unsupportive towards mental health sufferers lest they turn them into terrorists, conservatives or subhuman cultural parasites obsessed with money." - See what I did there? ;)
Again, in my experience, within recent times, the service these groups are providing, for lack of a public service, are free of evangelisim and don't start from some backward view of spirituality. However for those who are of faith (apparently "backward" people not of a "newer world" according) I hope we acknowledge that they will still be an important part of the support group for the mentally ill and depressed, together with a patient's family and friends as patients receive professional care from a public service, refunded and revamped to more effectively provide for patients.
We're not loosing people BECAUSE of faith based services. We're loosing them because there are a complete lack of government professional services to provide a better care than the faith groups offer for lack of anything else. These people are providing the best they can and saving lives that would be lost without ANY assistance. The ones they loose could well have been saved IF there was a public service available to save them, not if they'd completely avoided the only care they could get.
DD
August 15th, 2010
Sorry but the research tells a very different story. To give one example the percentage of success with AA in fact is no higher than the percentage of success in either controlling drinking or abstaining without it
This is not to reject it as a supportive or rewarding fellowship of extremely generous people - rather it is to recognise that the evidence shows it is not a TREATMENT option
I'm afraid the religious view pervades far deeper than the surface of character and this causes great problems
Yes the ultimate problem is the lack of Government services - but that problem brings us back to questioning the ideological and class reasons as to why - And you can see on this thread what happens when someone who has been through the wringer tells you the hard bitter truth on that.
charles
August 15th, 2010
Sorry, you'll have to link me to that research on AA's success. All I discovered was some studies that note it and other TSF groups have no greater or lesser success than other intervention groups. Apparently there was some evidence that they help people to accept, and remaing in, professional treatment but are no more successful in doing this than other intervention groups.
Also, please note the other research on other faith-based services that added up to your conclusion that "the research tells us a very different story" or if you were making that conclusion on all Faith-based services from this single example of the AA service?
DD
August 15th, 2010
To the question of definition and I will be as brief as possible here. BJM's definitions are factional - to my mind rather Fundamentalist in origin and inaccurate.
Secular is an approach to certain areas of life that is not based on religion. It can define attitudes, concepts, philosophies and activities. To be secular in one area is not to define oneself as secular in others. What we are dealing with is the concept of the separation of Church and State that in recent years the Christian Right has been so keen to violate
One of the doors to violation has sadly been faith based support of many kinds. Christians like their co-religious counterparts in other faith really have difficulty in restraining their evangelism. In the days of the early western faith based groups, the core religion - or "experience of transcendence" - was defined as either traditional Catholicism or protestant "Bible Belt" Fundamentalism
A person who is in mental illness crisis is often a person reaching for sanity - the last thing they need is any "experience of transcendence" translated into a particular ritualised form or to have their rejection of an irrational concept treated as personal rejection of treatment and the path to sanity. That is why treatment needs to have a core that is secular.
To the second problem of definition in BJM's post - the defining of "Theism" - again this is only relevant because support groups that are Faith based are generally at a spiritual level traditionalist in their approach to theology - ignoring the vast progress made in theology since the mid nineteenth century and in the post war period. In fact modern theology itself is increasingly secular. Wiki gives a useful definition:
Secular theology holds that theism has lost credibility as a valid conception of God's nature. It rejects the concept of a personal God and embraces the status of Jesus Christ, Christology and Christian eschatology as Christian mythology without basis in historical events. There are varying strata that lie between traditionalism and Fundamentalism and a fully secular theology
I believe that until Christianity fully grasps the need for theological modernisation - including the role of women and the irrelevance of sexual preference it can provide a dangerous incursion in the area of mental health. I would truly prefer not to get into a heavy discussion here, rather posting the response and leaving it at that So I ask for indulgence here in defining my approach to modernisation of theology by posting Bishop John Shelby Spongs Twelve theological theses that he published for debate some years ago - they represent a modernist strain in theology that has taken particular form since the publication in 1963 of John AT Robinson's (Bishop of Woolwich) famous book "Honest to God". Because people are largely secular - and in many cases on a path of escaping from traditional archaic religions and religious concepts I think they need to be taken into account in all faith based treatment Spong's theses are:
"Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today meaningless. A new way to speak of God must be found.
Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.
The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.
The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ's divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.
The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.
The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.
Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history.
The story of the Ascension assumed a three-tiered universe and is therefore not capable of being translated into the concepts of a post-Copernican space age.
There is no external, objective, revealed standard writ in scripture or on tablets of stone that will govern our ethical behavior for all time.
Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way.
The hope for life after death must be separated forever from the behavior control mentality of reward and punishment. The Church must abandon, therefore, its reliance on guilt as a motivator of behavior.
All human beings bear God's image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one's being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination"
Returning to me, DD - I had not expected the debate to need to go down this path but perhaps it is as well to bring these questions out into the open. Anything that deals with the mind easily becomes ideological - or what the religious define as spiritual. That is why ultimately I believe secularism must be the core of a State approach to mental illness. The boundaries need to be more clearly defined, fewer turf wars. Otherwise the world we are trying to bring our mentally ill people back into will be as irrational as the one they are leaving
In which case - why leave it? Phew - that was hard work. Having stated the problem I am quite happy to leave it there. Spong - of course has a huge following especially in Australia - where the rather backward traditional dioceses themselves however tend to reject him
BJM
August 15th, 2010
There's so much in this that I could comment on - but I'm not about to get into a 'real life - modern day' discussion about spiritual vs religious with someone who doesn't get any of it.
DD if you turn your back on your spirit you loose a complete side to the person that you are.
I did NOT say RELIGIOUS. I said spiritual aspect of a person. If you don't have a spirit then you must be dead... sorry.... that's how it goes.
You seem to be referring to a particular 'religion' here and as far as I know the catholic church has also changed an awful lot over the past 20 years.
It appears to me that you really don't have a real understanding of the modern-day church or people who acknowledge their spirit outside of the church structure.
As for the definitions I provided being "factional - to my mind rather Fundamentalist in origin and inaccurate"... interesting....I got them from the internet ditionaries... just go to www.google.com - type "define-space-the word". They have nothing to do with anything I believe - these are straight from the dictionary.
If you are looking for a new way to speak of God - I suggest you open your mind there are plenty out there - and I didn't mention God.... the New Age movement brought some great 'generic' terms with it for those who were touchy about the use of the term 'God' - but you can find that for yourself....
I find it interesting that you are SO anti anything that you don't agree with - and you make these blanket statements that are discriminatory and insulting - as if they are the opinion of the majority when in fact they might be the opinion of some minority somewhere - but they are not representative of the average person. I guess that's extremism.
And then you make comments like: "All human beings bear God's image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one's being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination" When apparently you don't believe there is a God and you are so completely committed to open discrimination against anyone who disagrees with you.
Have a nice night - I'm off to do more GetUp business -as I have been all day.
Mental Health HAS to change - it's not an option....
DD
August 15th, 2010
And that in your first few sentences BJM is precisely, my friend, what the mentally ill find themselves up against in what passes for treatment
How much does a person have to lose to realise that their Worldview is destructive and may take away that which they most love
We have a long way to go to make our world rational enough for the most vulnerable to survive within it
And there will be much more loss of life until this is realised. Suicide is the ultimate rejection of a dominating Worldview seen as repressive and of a perceived and unappetising future within it - sorry but there you have it
Some of us try very hard to make it better in part by sharing wealth, but in doing this one is struggling against so very much backwardness - as Sigmund Freud himself remarked:
"A civilization which leaves so large a number of its participants unsatisfied and drives them into revolt neither has nor deserves the prospect of a lasting existence."
"Illusions commend themselves to us because they save us pain and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead. We must therefore accept it without complaint when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality against which they are dashed to pieces"
"What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult."
"What progress we are making. In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books." (Sigmund Freud)
Regards DD - writing to you from within a great tradition - Try seeing suicide as an ultimate and final act of revolt by someone who feels that it is the only power he has left - and not just as an expression of despair
charles
August 15th, 2010
Well... It could be arguable as to if you're dead without a spirit. If you're talking about the "soul" then its pretty much a religious view that we all have one with athiests dismissing it's existence much like they dismiss the idea of any deity or universal essence and debates from both sides about scientific evidence proving if we have one or not. That simply leads back to the great debate of "is there a God" which I don't think we want to get into here although BJM either believes in God or that religion is important while DD appears to argue at length that religion should be completely abandoned. If you're talking about spirit in a very broad sense of being animated with "life" or possibly holding the will to live then you probably cover even atheists.
But onto MENTAL HEALTH.
The labor policy seems to be: http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/health-reform/mental-health--taking-action-to-tackle-suicide/ The Government will invest $276.9 million over four years to: •Provide more services to those at greatest risk of suicide – including psychology and psychiatry services, as well as non-clinical support to assist people with severe mental illness and their carers with their day-to-day needs. •Invest more in direct suicide prevention and crisis intervention, including through boosting the capacity of counselling services such as Lifeline and providing funding to improve safety at suicide 'hotspots'. •Provide more services and support to men – who are at greatest risk of suicide, but least likely to seek help. •Promote good mental health and resilience in young people, to prevent suicide later in life.
Liberal policy seems to be: http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx I can't currently get the policy from their website for whatever reason but I've gathered this from the news: $1.5 billion to improve front line mental health services 20 new Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centres 60 additional youth headspace sites 800 acute and sub acute early intervention beds.
Greens policy seems to be: http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health 37.increase funding to mental health services in collaboration with states and territories, particularly to prevention models, and hospital and community-based support, assessment and suicide prevention services. 38.establish properly resourced, strategically located 24 hour community mental health services, staffed by the full range of mental health professionals. 39.expand community-based support services and agencies to enable people with chronic mental and/or physical illnesses, and their carers, to live in and participate more fully in their communities.
BJM
August 15th, 2010
The Australian Democrats Policy (in the senate) http://www.democrats.org.au/policies/Action2010/Mental_Health.pdf An additional $3-4b/year is needed in mental health to more closely reflect its prevalence and respond to its ‘burden of disease’ – an increase from 7.8% of health budget spending to 13.3%. This spending would be significantly offset by the savings to the health system in reducing pressure on acute care beds, through fewer people with mental illness ending up in the justice system and from more people living well and contributing to society rather than dependent on welfare. Covering: Primary and early intervention Youth Acute care Accommodation and social supports Consumer voice, social inclusion, carer supports and de-stigmatisation Research
BJM
August 15th, 2010
Allow me to confirm that I was referring to 'spirit' in that every one (even atheists) have a spiritual side to their person and it needs nurturing.
Personally I do believe in 'God' or 'Spirit' or a 'higher power' or whatever you want to call it. I also believe in that the soul is eternal and goes on after death, and was before birth.
As for my 'religious' beliefs - well that is different - I don't really agree with any of the formal religions as such.
I believe a lot of other stuff too - that don't fit with traditional religion.
I also KNOW that involving a chaplain or the church in the care of the mentally ill doesn't mean that they will be 'indoctrinated' or 'judged' by the church or the chaplain. Most that I know, and I know a few personally, don't preach to the people that they work with or expect them to believe what they believe before or after they help them. Implying otherwise simply shows ignorance. What the church does do, that the medical system doesn't do - and what chaplains do (which do not belong to any one 'religious' group) is provide practical hands-on support and encouragement. These are the guys that CARE from the heart about the welfare of the people they deal with.
This I know for a FACT. Unless you have been fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of their unconditional compassion - then I guess you really shouldn't be commenting and certainly not denegrating the work that they do.
If they ask someone "do you want me to pray with you" and the person says "no" - that is and should be respected.
This is the way of the 'modern' church (whatever denomination) and also other 'inter or non-denominational' workers such as school chaplains that come through Scripture Union.
DD - do you go in the home of someone suffering mental illness and offer to help them clean when they can't focus enough to do so - do you take them shopping when they are too afraid to leave the house - or go shopping for them. Have you ever lifted the phone to ring someone who is ill to check to see if there's anything you can do - and I'm not talking about your close personal friends???? Well this is what they do... they fill the gap - and build long-term respectful relationships with people in our community that are alone, oppressed for any number of reasons, sick or disabled. Whether they are 'members' of their congregation or not and whether they are 'believers' or not.
It's sad that you have only had experiences with the very old school catholic church and choose to judge all reference to anything spiritual in that bucket. But it's your loss not mine.
Please don't drag down people who might get some help from the compassion of these groups - because they can save lives.
charles
August 15th, 2010
To suggest that Muslims, Christians, Jews and others of faith are deluded and in need of psychiatric care can only be regarded as offensive and not part of a multi-cultural belief but anti-cultural one.
The Scientific and medical based treatment facilities support community based organisations who support the mental patients together with family and friends.
charles
August 15th, 2010
Sorry DD, I can no sooner make myself blind and deaf to Labor's plans to censor our internet than I can to Liberal's plan to all but ignore climate change.
Tony may not believe in climate change but at least he's honest enough to voice that so I don't see how this suggests dishonesty in regards to his Mental health policy.
I will not ignore the promises and policies but rather measure the parties against them while accounting for their current character and recent track record. I will no sooner vote with the fear that the Liberals are radical nazi than I will with the fear that Labor are radical communists.
Further notes on the policies:
Joint media release by Anglicare Australia, The Salvation Army, Catholic Social Services Australia and Uniting Care Australia: "We are concerned that the Labor government isn't committed to acting with the urgency needed on community mental health, nor in the spirit of collaboration that we would wish," the groups said in a joint media statement."
"The opposition is prepared to invest in treatment but has not expressed any commitment to community mental health support such as secure supported housing and support for employment participation,"
Professor Patrick McGorry: "I fully endorse the [major church group's] call to action issued to all political parties to commit to investing in community mental health. All we need is political will and funding."
BJM
August 15th, 2010
Interesting that you ask me to "Try seeing suicide as an ultimate and final act of revolt by someone who feels that it is the only power he has left - and not just as an expression of despair"
Actually many of the qualified professionals see is as different to that.... they talk of suicide being the final outcome of a disease process.
Once again I'm concerned that you are perpetuating the 'stigma' around suicide. If you can stop to think of the long-term suffering that comes to suicide you might see it differently.
All research that I have read into the reasons for suicide talk about an irrational thought process.
Mental Health America says: A suicide attempt is a clear indication that something is gravely wrong in a person’s life. No matter the race or age of the person; how rich or poor they are, it is true that most people who die by suicide have a mental or emotional disorder. The most common underlying disorder is depression, 30% to 70% of suicide victims suffer from major depression or bipolar (manic-depressive) disorder.
These are illnesses - not a final act of revolt.
Bloggers please don't buy into any reference to suicide being an act of revolt or revenge or a statement of any kind... it is the outcome of a disease.
We must stop 'labelling' this tragic act as anything else. We must stop the stigma that costs people their lives. This 'labelling' is what stops people talking out about being suicidal and it's what causes so mush distress for those who loose loved ones.
DD
August 15th, 2010
"Outcome of a disease" - what nonsense - sorry. No disease leads to a definite fatal outcome thorough suicide or homicide. No disease process has that as its prognosis - that is a very dangerous hypothesis
It is just as logical to say that a person has killed his family because he was depressed. No - a thousand times no - the outcome can be entirely different - in the way that I have a painting I treasure on my wall - it greets me as I wake of a beautiful sunrise painted by a schizophrenic artist.
I am sorry, I don't think you understand dynamics anything like as well as you think you do - I think you see them as an outsider saying " Why can't these people be helped to fit in to this beautiful world we have created?" and you try to help them do that. But many of these people can no more fit into your irrationality than they can succeed or even survive in their own
Maybe Malcolm X put in best in another context - that of the most vulnerable people in America - the poor Blacks of the nineteen sixties. For some people the society you see as perfect is Hell - and I would be a little slower than you to condemn their perception or blame it on "mental illness":
Malcolm X said - "No, I'm not an American. I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy. So, I'm not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag- waver-no, not I. I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare...."
If you really WANT to understand BJM then dig it and dig it hard. You ask how much time O spend helping such people - OK just once I'll give you the answer whether you choose to believe it or not - it is whenever asked and sometimes all of my life - you see I have the privilege that for reasons I won't explain - I can actually afford that time
My family has fought battles for vulnerable people that estimated in terms of professional costs run to over a hundred thousand dollars. We have never taken a single cent - I've been called into places such as Caritas too if that means anything to you
I say this for one reason only and that is to show you I do know from experience what I am talking about here - You may choose not to believe me. But if you do believe me then hear again - the real stigma is when you tell a person that their life experience is invalid through illness - that what they perceive is a distorted view of what in reality is perfection - for the truth of the matter is that it is above all yourself that has yet to see through to the core where illness and environmental circumstance interact and to the truth that the ideology of the market economy and of traditional faith sometimes kills.
BJM
August 15th, 2010
I won't comment on this rant... sorry.... I'm not biting.
I lost my son to suicide only 4 months ago - and I was the one who travelled his long journey of illness with him.
I know as I take on the fight for society to accept that the mentally ill are in fact sick and that it's not acceptable to ostracise them because of this or label them with any other label - I would come against those who would criticise and condemn me for my efforts.
You are just one of those. You won't disuade me.... The mental health professionals know more than you do. At the heart of the 'stigma' that costs lives is your way of thinking.
Changing the 'stigma' won't happen with any funding from the government - it comes from inside each and every one of us - by addressing our own back yard and changing our own hearts. Some won't see the light and most will.
charles
August 15th, 2010
Just a quick reminder that during Howard's years, from 1997 to 2006 suicide rates dropped from about 15 per 100,000 to around 9 per 100,000. It appears the coalition being in government has nothing to do with rises in suicide rates.
What we are poised at is a point where simple votes can help choose between several party policies for Mental Health care which are:
The labor policy seems to be: http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/health-reform/mental-health--taking-action-to-tackle-suicide/ The Government will invest $276.9 million over four years to: •Provide more services to those at greatest risk of suicide – including psychology and psychiatry services, as well as non-clinical support to assist people with severe mental illness and their carers with their day-to-day needs. •Invest more in direct suicide prevention and crisis intervention, including through boosting the capacity of counselling services such as Lifeline and providing funding to improve safety at suicide 'hotspots'. •Provide more services and support to men – who are at greatest risk of suicide, but least likely to seek help. •Promote good mental health and resilience in young people, to prevent suicide later in life.
Liberal policy seems to be: http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx I can't currently get the policy from their website for whatever reason but I've gathered this from the news: $1.5 billion to improve front line mental health services 20 new Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centres 60 additional youth headspace sites 800 acute and sub acute early intervention beds.
Greens policy seems to be: http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health 37.increase funding to mental health services in collaboration with states and territories, particularly to prevention models, and hospital and community-based support, assessment and suicide prevention services. 38.establish properly resourced, strategically located 24 hour community mental health services, staffed by the full range of mental health professionals. 39.expand community-based support services and agencies to enable people with chronic mental and/or physical illnesses, and their carers, to live in and participate more fully in their communities.
The Australian Democrats Policy (in the senate) http://www.democrats.org.au/policies/Action2010/Mental_Health.pdf An additional $3-4b/year is needed in mental health to more closely reflect its prevalence and respond to its ‘burden of disease’ – an increase from 7.8% of health budget spending to 13.3%. This spending would be significantly offset by the savings to the health system in reducing pressure on acute care beds, through fewer people with mental illness ending up in the justice system and from more people living well and contributing to society rather than dependent on welfare. Covering: Primary and early intervention Youth Acute care Accommodation and social supports Consumer voice, social inclusion, carer supports and de-stigmatisation Research
DD
August 16th, 2010
Statistics are very misleading unless you take into account all factors. The big factor in the matter that you are not including is the collapse of the market economy.
In Australia one might add to it a degree of despair over the setbacks towards a rational climate change policy. Many people are deeply concerned as they watch the land degrade
I have extreme doubt that the party in power has any direct effect on suicide and mental illness rates - The key factor is if the general environment is hopeful and supportive
On this basis it is social trends that matter. The social trend that Coalition policy is pointing towards is far more hostile, conservative and repressive than even under Howard - and in the present international climate it will be hard to balance cutbacks in services with decreasing real wages and pensions caused by rising costs, prices, and rents
Ultra Conservatism in the Coalition is class war - class war against ordinary people in the interests of the already prosperous, and especially those sectors of the more privileged who fear losing some of their advantage in the present world economy doldrums. That is the direction in which too much "charity money" worldwide is flowing - propping up the flagging security of the already rich
The vulnerable cannot afford the Howard/Abbott ultra conservative and medieval religiosity based social environment with its accompanying encouragement of deforestation and land exploitation that leads to degradation of our environment
The real battle in this election is an ultra-conservative induced class war from the Howard/Abbott Coalition front - versus a growth in social democracy and environmentalism on the part of the Labor in the Reps in Government and Greens with the balance of power in the in the Senate option.
This election will decide the social structures which will nurture and support - or exploit and repress our people
charles
August 16th, 2010
Could the stastics on AA also be misleading considering they stem from reports that, in total, only surveyed less than 3,500 people?
Don't ignore policy and plans or let yourself be steered from the topic at hand people. The Getup Article begins with noting the Labor promises made thanks to the efforts of Getup and many other groups who have fought to bring awareness of this situation to the forefront. Getup and McGorry note how the present Labor plans still fall far short of whats needed for the Public Mental Health system to opperate effectively.
The real battle in this blog is for awareness of the Mental health situation and to discuss several party policies for Mental Health care while pushing for them all to deliver whats really needed.
The labor policy seems to be: http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/health-reform/mental-health--taking-action-to-tackle-suicide/ The Government will invest $276.9 million over four years to: •Provide more services to those at greatest risk of suicide – including psychology and psychiatry services, as well as non-clinical support to assist people with severe mental illness and their carers with their day-to-day needs. •Invest more in direct suicide prevention and crisis intervention, including through boosting the capacity of counselling services such as Lifeline and providing funding to improve safety at suicide 'hotspots'. •Provide more services and support to men – who are at greatest risk of suicide, but least likely to seek help. •Promote good mental health and resilience in young people, to prevent suicide later in life.
Liberal policy seems to be: http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx I can't currently get the policy from their website for whatever reason but I've gathered this from the news: $1.5 billion to improve front line mental health services 20 new Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centres 60 additional youth headspace sites 800 acute and sub acute early intervention beds.
Greens policy seems to be: http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health 37.increase funding to mental health services in collaboration with states and territories, particularly to prevention models, and hospital and community-based support, assessment and suicide prevention services. 38.establish properly resourced, strategically located 24 hour community mental health services, staffed by the full range of mental health professionals. 39.expand community-based support services and agencies to enable people with chronic mental and/or physical illnesses, and their carers, to live in and participate more fully in their communities.
The Australian Democrats Policy (in the senate) http://www.democrats.org.au/policies/Action2010/Mental_Health.pdf An additional $3-4b/year is needed in mental health to more closely reflect its prevalence and respond to its ‘burden of disease’ – an increase from 7.8% of health budget spending to 13.3%. This spending would be significantly offset by the savings to the health system in reducing pressure on acute care beds, through fewer people with mental illness ending up in the justice system and from more people living well and contributing to society rather than dependent on welfare. Covering: Primary and early intervention Youth Acute care Accommodation and social supports Consumer voice, social inclusion, carer supports and de-stigmatisation Research
What is GetUp calling for? On the recommendations from Prof McGorry and other mental health experts, GetUp are asking for $500 millions in new funding for mental health services including youth suicide prevention: 90 Youth mental health ‘headspace’ centres across Australia = $100m 10 early psychosis intervention centres across Australia = $100m 24-hour suicide prevention and psychosis teams = $50m Support for mental health patients to recover outside of hospitals (sub-acute care) = $100m A national mental health education campaign similar to that on road safety = $50m Other measures including housing and social support services and training for counsellors = $145m TOTAL REQUIRED IN 2011 = $545m
charles
August 16th, 2010
The research the AA groups have been suject to ammounts to 8 studies over 25 years which, together, in total, cover a sample of less than 3,500 people. I would like to stress that all 8 reports are considered anecdotal by their own admission.
Don't be steered from the topic at hand which this blog aims to cover people. While we can question a government's ability to deliver an adequate response to Mental health needs you can be sure that if a government plans to underdeliver then they will do that or less than it. Set the bar where it needs to be and push for the politicians to set their own bar there.
Encourage awareness of Mental health issues, discuss the party's proposed solutions to Mental health in this blog and elsewhere and push the parties to make plans for what needs to be done and then hold them to those plans by keeping awareness on the topic of Mental health issues and services.
The labor policy seems to be: http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/health-reform/mental-health--taking-action-to-tackle-suicide/ The Government will invest $276.9 million over four years to: •Provide more services to those at greatest risk of suicide – including psychology and psychiatry services, as well as non-clinical support to assist people with severe mental illness and their carers with their day-to-day needs. •Invest more in direct suicide prevention and crisis intervention, including through boosting the capacity of counselling services such as Lifeline and providing funding to improve safety at suicide 'hotspots'. •Provide more services and support to men – who are at greatest risk of suicide, but least likely to seek help. •Promote good mental health and resilience in young people, to prevent suicide later in life.
Liberal policy seems to be: http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx $1.5 billion over 4 years to improve front line mental health services ($299.7 million in 2011) 20 new Early Psychosis Prevention and Intervention Centres 60 additional youth headspace sites 800 acute and sub acute early intervention beds.
Greens policy seems to be: http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health 37.increase funding to mental health services in collaboration with states and territories, particularly to prevention models, and hospital and community-based support, assessment and suicide prevention services. 38.establish properly resourced, strategically located 24 hour community mental health services, staffed by the full range of mental health professionals. 39.expand community-based support services and agencies to enable people with chronic mental and/or physical illnesses, and their carers, to live in and participate more fully in their communities.
The Australian Democrats Policy (in the senate) http://www.democrats.org.au/policies/Action2010/Mental_Health.pdf An additional $3-4b/year is needed in mental health to more closely reflect its prevalence and respond to its ‘burden of disease’ – an increase from 7.8% of health budget spending to 13.3%. This spending would be significantly offset by the savings to the health system in reducing pressure on acute care beds, through fewer people with mental illness ending up in the justice system and from more people living well and contributing to society rather than dependent on welfare. Covering: Primary and early intervention Youth Acute care Accommodation and social supports Consumer voice, social inclusion, carer supports and de-stigmatisation Research
What is GetUp calling for? On the recommendations from Prof McGorry and other mental health experts, GetUp are asking for $500 millions in new funding for mental health services including youth suicide prevention: 90 Youth mental health ‘headspace’ centres across Australia = $100m 10 early psychosis intervention centres across Australia = $100m 24-hour suicide prevention and psychosis teams = $50m Support for mental health patients to recover outside of hospitals (sub-acute care) = $100m A national mental health education campaign similar to that on road safety = $50m Other measures including housing and social support services and training for counsellors = $145m TOTAL REQUIRED IN 2011 = $545m
August 16th, 2010
As a teacher in the government sector I am aware of the pressures that many families face coping with busy working lives. Of course these pressures affect children and teachers too.
I think we need to make the connections between workplace health and safety and mental health - particularly with the professions who are dealing with people as their core concern - and education as central to children's and adolescent's wellbeing.
Both the major parties miss the boat in this regard. The shift in emphasis in education debates by politicians to one of improving outcomes so that corporations can improve their profit margins - productivity as it is called - sells our communities short.
Pedagogical approaches that place children at the centre of their learning is as much about them realising their potential as a powerful person and an active, participatory, social human being. This assist in their wellbeing generally.
BJM
August 16th, 2010
Are you implying a connection between intellectual achievement and mental health?
Or are you saying that a good education will prevent mental ill-health?
Please clarify why you feel this comment fits in the mental health update blog.
DD
August 16th, 2010
Three hearty cheers for a teacher who sees the vital role of empowering personal autonomy in building good mental health that is accompanied with a character that can realise the person's full potential as a fully conscious, participating, and happy human being.
It is heartbreaking to watch children who become lost on their way through bad circumstance or bad parenting or poor quality schooling - or a combination of all of them and other factors. As one gets older one sees these patterns repeated from generation to generation
Good teaching is the opportunity to make great changes to otherwise inevitable outcomes. I recently went to the opening of new facilities in a private school
I was very happy to see what had been done for the children - There were theatres(sic) and special study rooms and workshops and so on - These facilities cost over ten million - almost double - for the one school
I don't begrudge them that, for I sent my own child to a private school with a similar building project
But I felt rather sad too - and the Coalition attacks on the school building program are something I cannot help seeing in the context of the privileges the children of those who attack this excellent and timely Gillard/Rudd program enjoy
Sad - very sad. Thankyou again.
Thankyou DD
DD
August 16th, 2010
The World Health Organisation answers most of your questions BJM including your post asking
"Are you implying a connection between intellectual achievement and mental health?
Or are you saying that a good education will prevent mental ill-health?"
It also explains the relevance of my posts relating to the social and economic environment of a sufferer. Maybe you and perhaps Charles and a few others should be arguing with them The WHO contact address is on their webpage:
The essential dimension of mental health is clear from the definition of health in the WHO constitution: "Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." Mental health is an integral part of this definition.
The goals and traditions of public health and health promotion can be applied just as usefully in the field of mental health as they have been in the prevention of infectious or of cardio-vascular diseases, for example.
Mental health is more than the absence of mental disorders
Mental health can be conceptualized as a state of well-being in which the individual realizes his or her own abilities, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to his or her community.
In this positive sense, mental health is the foundation for well-being and effective functioning for an individual and for a community. This core concept of mental health is consistent with its wide and varied interpretation across cultures.
Mental health promotion covers a variety of strategies, all aimed at having a positive impact on mental health. Like all health promotion, mental health promotion involves actions that create living conditions and environments to support mental health and allow people to adopt and maintain healthy lifestyles. This includes a range of actions that increase the chances of more people experiencing better mental health.
Mental health is determined by socio-economic and environmental factors
Mental health and mental health disorders are determined by multiple and interacting social, psychological, and biological factors, just as health and illness in general.
The clearest evidence is associated with indicators of poverty, including low levels of education, and in some studies with poor housing and poor income. Increasing and persisting socio-economic disadvantages for individuals and for communities are recognized risks to mental health.
The greater vulnerability of disadvantaged people in each community to mental health disorders may be explained by such factors as the experience of insecurity and hopelessness, rapid social change, and the risks of violence and physical ill-health.
A climate that respects and protects basic civil, political, socio-economic and cultural rights is also fundamental to mental health promotion. Without the security and freedom provided by these rights, it is very difficult to maintain a high level of mental health."
Anyone who perpetuates these myths is feeding the stigma that is costing lives.
DD
August 16th, 2010
The World Health Organisation continues:
"Mental health is linked to behaviour
Mental, social, and behavioural health problems may interact to intensify their effects on behaviour and well-being. Substance abuse, violence, and abuse of women and children on the one hand, and health problems such as HIV/AIDS, depression, and anxiety on the other, are more prevalent and more difficult to cope with in conditions of high unemployment, low income, limited education, stressful work conditions, gender discrimination, social exclusion, unhealthy lifestyle, and human rights violations.
Enhancing the value and visibility of mental health promotion
National mental health policies should not be solely concerned with mental health disorders, but also recognize and address the broader issues which promote mental health. These would include the socio-economic and environmental factors, described above, as well as behaviour. This requires mainstreaming mental health promotion into policies and programmes in government and business sectors including education, labour, justice, transport, environment, housing, and welfare, as well as the health sector. Particularly important are the decision-makers in governments at local and national levels, whose actions affect mental health in ways that they may not realize.
Need more BJM?
BJM
August 16th, 2010
As a community, we need to develop an understanding about mental illness and accept those affected as equal members of the community. As stigma often perpetuates fallacies, it can be a major barrier to community understanding and acceptance of people with a mental illness, leading to prejudice and discrimination.
Sane Australia are doing some great work with their ad campaign at present.
In fact I wonder if you have ever even read what the World Health organisation says about mental illness BJM
I think it is pretty clear - and of course includes early childhood intervention. I have a particular interest in this one as a success story. Early intervention revealed that my child suffered from ADD. We were able to prevent this handicap from leading to worse problems including more serious mental Health problems through that early intervention. He now has a University Degree
Politely I would suggest that in looking at mental health you have become too focused on your personal sad experiences and I suggest possibly you might consider the possibility that you are only seeing mental illness as being of the "psychotic illness' category" - whereas - as all WHO literature emphasis the ambit of mental illness is VASTLY wider
So to the concluding paragraphs of the WHO document
"Cost-effective interventions exist to promote mental health, even in poor populations
Low cost, high impact evidence-based interventions to promote mental health include:
Early childhood interventions (e.g. home visiting for pregnant women, pre-school psycho-social interventions, combined nutritional and psycho-social interventions in disadvantaged populations).
Support to children (e.g. skills building programmes, child and youth development programmes)
Socio-economic empowerment of women (e.g. improving access to education, microcredit schemes)
Social support to old age populations (e.g. befriending initiatives, community and day centres for the aged);
Programmes targeted at vulnerable groups, including minorities, indigenous people, migrants and people affected by conflicts and disasters (e.g. psycho-social interventions after disasters);
Mental health promotion activities in schools (e.g. programems supporting ecological changes in schools, child-friendly schools)
Mental health interventions at work (e.g. stress prevention programmes)
Housing policies (e.g. housing improvement)
Violence prevention programmes (e.g. community policing initiatives); and
Community development programmes (e.g. 'Communities That Care' initiatives, integrated rural development) WHO is working with governments to promote mental health
To implement these effective interventions, governments need to adopt a mental health framework as used to advance other areas of health and socio-economic development, and thereby engage all relevant sectors to support and evaluate activities designed to promote mental health.
WHO supports governments by providing technical material and advice to implement policies, plans and programmes aimed at promoting mental health."
This is about promoting mental health - these are not CAUSES.
You have been ranting about how nothing can be done until the fabric of our society and it's structure is completely changed and you claim that these things are CAUSES of mental illness.
All these things are worthwhile - and I agree that they are risk factors - but they are NOT the ONLY cause of mental illness.
My question was to what I thought was another blogger and how they felt what they said about education related to mental health because the blog didn't actually say.
Most importantly is that we really don't know what causes mental illness. Even on an individual by individual basis it isn't always understood.
Mental illness does not only occur in what are identified as 'at risk' individuals and doesn't discriminate based on age, sex, religion, culture, socio-economic status. It is more prevelent in some situations - eg following long-term stress and child abuse, the gay and lesbian population etc etc...
But the truth is that our society structure does not in itself pre-determine mental illness or cause it.
And in all that - my question was not answered.
kate
August 17th, 2010
PATRICK MCGORRY IS A FRAUD! He is paid by pharmaceutical companies to promote presciption medication(anti-depressants, psychotic drugs etc) Yes, we need a better Mental Health system but the side effects of these drugs are much more devastating!!
Matt
August 21st, 2010
Please get a clue, come and work in mental health before you comment on something that you have no idea about.
The following material comes from CCHR's own website - I have taken it from there so you may be a little less keen to delete the information
"CCHR was founded in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and the internationally acclaimed author, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at the State University of New York, Syracuse."
"Mental Health watchdog the Citizens Committee on Human Rights"
No it is not
For persons wanting to check on these things extensive list of Scientology front organisations are listed on the web
If we are not careful organisation such as Scientology will use blogs such as this one to push their interests. On CCHR pages you will find attacks on Prof. Patrick McGorry whose comments on mental health matters inspired this campaign
As I have said from the outset the issue of mental health is vastly greater than a simplistic "treatment" issue and the involvement of ideology within it - as demonstrated by Scientology worldwide - is enormous
I think it might be helpful if the good professor himself spoke out on these issues too - the omelette needs unscrambling. This post is just a tiny contribution to that process
As a footnote Dr Szasz is himself is not a Scientologist and has no direct involvement with the cult - but according to the net he remains on the Board of Advisors to CCHR. For the rest I suggest interested persons use Google. Put in the the following "CCHR AND Scientology" I got over twenty five thousand pages including this highly interesting one
And sorry to disappoint you, but im not a scientologist- i am a concerned citizen who doesnt believe in drugging our children or in fact anyone. THis is not the solution to mental health! If you did some research- which you seem to like also, you would see that what I am saying is a concern of many psychiatrists/psychologists.
BJM
August 18th, 2010
Kate
I would caution you regarding believing everything that you read. If you look at the Orygen program directly it's about identification and treatment by a MULTI-DISCIPLINARY team... Given psychiatrists are the only ones who can prescribe medications I think this seems to indicate that the article is probably off-base.
So what if he needs to get funding from the pharma companies. It's funding - not a 'deal'.
Orygen Youth Health Clinical Program (OYH-CP) offers treatment to young people with complex mental health issues. These issues have generally:
* persisted for several weeks or months * negatively effected day-to-day activities, often causing major disruption to their lives * placed them or others at risk and * significantly changed the way they view their future.
OYH-CP provides a range of programs to promote recovery from mental illness. These programs not only focus on symptom reduction but also aim to develop or enhance important life skills, while also providing social and vocational development opportunities.
For young people not eligible for OYH-CP services there are a range of organisations available to help, but what they can offer varies depending upon the type of problem the young person is experiencing and the intensity of support needed to promote recovery. Some of the services available include general practioners, community counsellors, and headspace, among others. For assistance to find services available in your area visit the Lifeline Service Finder.
Notice the involvement of counsellors and the GP and also the Headspace program.
I believe that early identification and treatment not only will save lives but also make it possible to reduce the amount of drugs, or the length of time these drugs might be needed.
The fact that they also provide lifeskills training and counsellng says that this is different to the normal hospital crisis/acute treatment that normally only comes after they are extremely ill - and possible after it's too late to treat them without these drugs.
I agree that the use of drugs in psychiatry needs to be approached with caution - some of these drugs have extremely severe side-effects - some can make them sicker.
As that parent of a tenn who suicided - and had been ill for most of his life - I believe that if identification and treatment had been available earlier (in his case - at all) then he might have had a chance.
Also note the title of the article you are referring to 'PRE-drugging' - that would indicate that his approach is about BEFORE drugs.
I'm not sure what your direct experience is with a sick teenager - the problem with getting them assistance is the lack of any integrated services that are available.
This is a huge step forward.
micheal
August 19th, 2010
If we do not implement a better plan for those less fortunate than ourselves we are derelict in our duty as functional and fortunate members of the human race. I know people who work in this area and government cutbacks are impacting on those who do not and often cannot vote. Their plight is in some cases of the most distressing. I do not think that the politicians care. All they care about is nodding in the right way on the right camera and making sure that the least fortunate of our country are deprived of the most. Then they vote themselves a pay rise or pay some party hack hundreds of thousands of dollars for little return. Shame on you all politicians. I was once a dedicated one party voter but now I am so angry because of the lies and obfuscation, because of the political backstabbing and because of the lack of action from all of the politicians that I will not listen to any excuses, do something material now.
rob
August 21st, 2010
Isn't it great that the Liberals have pledged so much to mental health in the current campaign.
charles
August 21st, 2010
Indeed, I was hopeful that this would encourage Labor to raise to the challenge as well but I guess it was too late for them to change their budget books and policies at this point.
If Labor take power, hopefully public campaigning will reach them and the Libs will keep bringing it up until they take better action. If Libs take power, we can drop the campaigning on the isp filter and sit pretty happy with Metal health but we'll have a big challenge with climate change and asylum seekers.
BJM
August 22nd, 2010
Fellow bloggers - have you noticed the lack of talk about mental health in the media and policital speaches....
People are sceptical that the Libs will implement their policy - and we know that Labor doesn't have one....
Mental Health and fear that the Libs won't deliver what they promise - that's why we have a senate and why the government is there - to make sure that they implement the things they say they will. Having a close parliament will be good - keeps them on their toes so to speak.
And it's up to us - keep emailing your local member - keep speaking out. If they get in and it looks like they aren't going to deliver then speak out.
Take to the phone/email/twitter etc... and let the independents know that you care about Mental Health. The only interview I saw last night that even mentioned it - was with Andrew Wilkie from Hobart - to him it's important - so let the other independents know that you care about mental health - it's not over yet....
EMAIL / CONTACT THE INDEPENDENTS!!!!
I will remind you that Labor have stripped funding from mental health since 2007 - and that the last large injection of funds came from Howard in his last term.
Howard setup the HeadSpace program and Beyond Blue was the brainchild of a lib premier, Jeff Kennett.
Labor closed down the institutions and REAL care facilities for the mentally ill which has really impacted the level of care available.
Patrick McGorry and John Mendoza are the experts in this field and we know that they know what they are talking about.
What can we do - we can work at killing the stigma - and each and every one of us can do that.
It won't matter if we have the best services completely available - if those who need help continue to refuse it - and the 'system' refuses to use it's power to give them the help they need.
Underlying it all is this deadly stigma.
This needs to be addressed - and the only way to change social attitudes is one heart at a time... Campaign, speak out and push for an advertising campaign.
And don't forget to remind the new Greens guy of what their policy is on Mental Health and the importance of this getting up. Adam Bandt (Melbourne) 15/46 Manningham St PARKVILLE VIC 3052 Phone (work): 03 9602 1141 Email: adam.bandt@greens.org.au
These guys could determine who leads the government over the next few days / weeks ..... please remind them of what you want for Mental Health - bring this back on the agenda.
Frances Yule
August 23rd, 2010
As a misdiagnosed "bi-polar" mental health patient, I was in and out of the mental health system for over 30 years until one wise GP doctor tested me for thyroid activity and came up with "bingo"! And likewise he recognised my epilepsy for panic attacks. No more debilitating drugs and no more automatic labelling. I haven't looked back since. There remains an inability for mental health professionals to recognise that not everything is as it seems. Greater funding is definitely needed, especially for the continuing education of the professionals involved, and to fund a broader spectrum of treatment and therapy options for the mental health client.
Melanie Murphy
August 24th, 2010
Directly or indirectly we will all be touched by some form of Mental illness in our lives, with such a huge problem we need our Government to provide support and services to this much needed area.
BJM
August 24th, 2010
You are correct
And sadly the labor party are the only party that doesn't have a significant policy on mental health.
All we can do is hope that the final count and the independents put the Liberal party into leadership.
Or Robert Oakshott's view of a colaborative parliament comes off - and they all remember mental health in their negotiations....
If not - we have achieved NOTHING and will have to start campaigning for change all over again... and not let go of the momentum.
Peter R
August 26th, 2010
Now that the funding has been announced we need a max 6 monthly call on what is the progress and how funds are being spent ie more accountability for action and implementation. The results need to be tabled/announced by an independant committee chaired by Prof McGorrie which can then suggest next step to keep pressure on the govt depts involved to do what the government has said it will do. Let's judge actions/results not spin. If dept heads are not acting in accordance with the action/spending plan they need to be sacked! The same could be done with the whole of the NT bureuacracy's go slow on building for our indigenous population living in squalor. It's a total disgrace that funding is available and virtually nothing is being done except paying civil servants to sit in a/con offices and wasting more funds on an increasing pile of consultants reports on what could be done. Enough!! .
BJM
August 26th, 2010
Peter - what funding?
I'm not aware of any funding having been announced or allocated.
Until the outcome of the Parliament is decided then there's no plans in place for anything.
Unless I'm missing something that hasn't yet hit the news.
charles
August 26th, 2010
All I can find is a news article where Katter expresses what could only be described as great concern for mental health. Particularly suicide. This could well indicate that no matter which party they go for, this will be high on the agenda they want the party to follow and that they'll push hard to make sure its not shelved. I actually though Katter was the least interested in Mental Health, but it turns out that he's the most, so thats all three of them who are very keen on it.
"HEALTH experts say farmers in Bob Katter's northern Queensland electorate are committing suicide at one of the naiton's highest rates. Ian Hickie, executive director of the Brain and Mind Research Institute, said while the rates of suicide have been higher in rural areas, Mr Katter's constituents were particularly doing it tough.
"Queensland has been reporting higher rates of suicide than anywhere else for a while now," Professor Hickie said. "For Mr Katter's electorate, well, it has smaller towns, longer distances to hospitals and mental health services, several mining communities and the overall pressures of farming life has been rough lately."
Australian of the year and mental health advocate Pat McGorry agreed that Mr Katter's electorate had one of the highest rates of rural suicide, but said he was encouraged to know the issue would finally be on the national agenda.
"There simply are more significant risk factors in rural areas -- the stressors are greater and the quality and access to services are lower," Professor McGorry said.
"I'm encouraged that Mr Katter would bring this up . . . I'm more confident than I have been in months that mental healthcare is going to be dealt with in a much more serious way."
According to the latest figures from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, 14 out of every 100,000 men in metropolitan areas die by suicide compared with 18 out of every 100,000 in rural areas and 27 out of every 100,000 in very remote areas.
Mr Katter said in his electorate one farmer committed suicide every four days."
We can certainly remain hopeful that not just some money will be added - but significant funding be allocated to appropriate services.
That HAS to include ALL of Parick McGorrys work - not just counselling after the threat of suicide has already been identified.
My only concern is that at this point in the 'new' policital arena none of the policies put on the table before or during the election are worth much at all.
I expect that if we don't go back to the polls then each poplicy / budget allocation will need to be addressed independently and assessed on their own merits.
Indeed if this works then it would be a fantastic outcome.
My doubts are still high as it will mean that they all need to grow up and stop acting like children or acting on their own personal agendas - and that includes the independents, eg. Mr Katter needs to look at mental health as a whole - not just farmer suicides.
DD
August 26th, 2010
But you seem particularly disinclined to look at mental health as a whole and in fact seem to me to confuse good mental health with the absence of diagnosable mental illness, BJM. Maybe you should clarify this
As one suicide prevention organisation puts it:
"People with mental illnesses therefore have a higher risk of suicide compared to the general population and are vulnerable to suicidal thoughts. A person’s suicide risk increases again if the person has more than one mental illness.
People recently discharged from psychiatric care also have a higher suicide risk, especially if the person was an involuntary patient, previously suicidal, or living alone.
Nonetheless, many people who experience mental illness do not have suicidal thoughts or engage in suicidal behaviour. In addition, not everyone who completes suicide has a mental illness." (ENDQUOTE)
Improving mental health is not only about treating diagnosable illness. Once again I think that the World Health Organisation has it right:
"Mental, social, and behavioural health problems may interact to intensify their effects on behaviour and well-being. Substance abuse, violence, and abuse of women and children on the one hand, and health problems such as HIV/AIDS, depression, and anxiety on the other, are more prevalent and more difficult to cope with in conditions of high unemployment, low income, limited education, stressful work conditions, gender discrimination, social exclusion, unhealthy lifestyle, and human rights violations.
National mental health policies should not be solely concerned with mental health disorders, but also recognize and address the broader issues which promote mental health. These would include the socio-economic and environmental factors, described above, as well as behaviour. This requires mainstreaming mental health promotion into policies and programmes in government and business sectors including education, labour, justice, transport, environment, housing, and welfare, as well as the health sector. Particularly important are the decision-makers in governments at local and national levels, whose actions affect mental health in ways that they may not realize."
I feel that this blog thread has tended to focus on mental "illnesses"(sic) rather than mental health. Worse still I have found that to address mental health is to find oneself placed under attack - because as ALL the relevant material makes it perfectly clear when one talks about mental HEALTH one has to talk about the social and physical environment as a whole - and some people would rather blame the victim and somehow waste the funding on seeking some set of magical medical cures for what in fact are all too often the end result of SOCIAL ills.
Of course the mentally ill suffering from illnesses ned to be better supported and catered for - there should be no argument on that - but "mental health?"
That is a far bigger and wider ranging social as well as "medical" issue. To his credit I think Bob Katter understands this and recognises the role of loss of land, poor infrastructure, and insufficient investment in vital services
BJM
August 26th, 2010
To imply that these risk factors are ALWAYS present is flawed. To imply that everyone suffering from mental ill-health has suffered one of these failings of society is flawed.
To imply that if we as a society address all of these risk factors and change the fabric of our society and move to a socialist society then mental ill-health will no longer exist is also flawed.
To state, as you have before, that nothing will change until the fabric of our society changes is also flawed.
This blog is about updating and reforming our mental health system.
Reducing and managing risk factors will have an effect on the quality of the mental wellness of many, however, will not remove or impact many conditions and the incidence of these conditions.
If you get rid of sugar from our diets - in fact ban the production of sugar you might have an impact on the incidence of type II diabetes but it's highly doubtful that you will have much of an impact on type I diabetes. It's the same thing.
It is correct to state that many people who suffer mental ill-health have at least one of these risk factors in their life - and the most commonly identified is probably childhood abuse or lack of emotional nurturance (I don't have statistics to support this - I'm making this statement based on the comments I hear from people who suffer mental ill-health and those experiences of the many many people I now know who have lost loved ones to suicide). There are many factors that can influence each individual case.
However, taking an approach that focuses on prevention at a societal level will not address the abuse inside the home and will not provide the much needed services for those currently suffering or those that will get sick while we are waiting to see if the prevention works - or for those that this won't effect.
The most damaging thing is the continual stigma that sufferers come up against. Not just the societal stigma that is fed by so many. For example: referring to people with mental ill-health as 'victims' or as having a 'defect' and referring to those who take their own lives as having 'committed' suicide. The throw away comments made, often in jest that someone behaving differently to the 'norm' is 'mental' or 'mad'. The stigma that the individual attaches to their illness often keeps them from seeking the help, treatment that they need. And in reality their illness stops them from understanding what they need.
So even if the services required are available, it won't make any difference if the individual won't accept the treatment that they need.
Until we stop perpetuating this stigma that is costing us lives - we are still pushing it up hill.
I support rolling out mental health first aid into our high schools - give the kids the skils to support each other. Also it should be a part of all first aid training.
Patrick McGorry's early identification and early intervention will reduce the amount of drugs required, improve the chance of sufferers not developing a debilitating condition.
I happen to think that we live in a great society - we don't live in a third world. Is there suffering and poverty - absolutely. Does it need to be address - absolutely. Are the aboriginal communities suffering - absolutely. Do they need targetting support - absolutely. No one with a conscience would disagree with that.
Doing these things however will not wipe out mental ill-health.
I found the submission by Professor Colin Tatz relating especially to suicide amongst Aboriginal peoples particularly interesting. It contains material vital to the role of conceptualising suicide accurately:
"For historical reasons, suicide has become the domain of medicine, psychology and psychiatry and now of biology. The biomedicalization of suicide has resulted in a straitjacket: the would-be suicide must be depressed, depression is a clinical condition, therefore the right antidepressant drug is the answer. This approach has little or no time at all for the historical, geographical, cultural, social factors involved. It says that the subject is ill and the body/mind must be treated, not the contextual environments in which the patient lives and which all too often give rise to the desire for death. The circumstances and context of the 'illness' are either irrelevant or at the very margins. There is a simple response here: if 10 to 15 per cent of any population are 'depressed', then vast numbers should be attempting or committing suicide. Clearly this doesn't happen — and it doesn't happen because there is no direct or incontestable evidence that only the 'depressed' commit suicide. Most 'depressed' people don't. In my studies of Aboriginal youth suicide, virtually no cases of 'mental illness' or 'depression' were found to be present. Yet we persist in pursuing what we commonly but mistakenly believe is the only framework for understanding and treating the suicide phenomenon — the clinical psychological/psychotherapeutic model, soon, I believe, to be challenged or even supplanted by the genetic/biochemistry model. Strategies that now seek to employ more psychologists are bound to be disappointed: many in rural populations, especially Aborigines, are not 'psychology-oriented', are less likely to make an appointment with a resident clinical psychologist, are less likely to feel comfortable in a consulting room and less understanding when told after 45 minutes that 'our time is up'. Urban-trained clinical psychologists are not usually versed in the geography, culture, folkways of rural communities. As for the heavily-touted genetic theories, a 'suicide gene' is highly unlikely to appear; and in 'mixed-race' communities, so common in Australia, no 'science' can possibly uncover whose 'suicide genes' have prevailed. They also have to explain why Aboriginal suicide was virtually non-existent until 1960, why it is now amongst the highest rate in the world, and what it is that has 'awakened' the 'genes', or the chemical imbalances of the brain, since that recent date." ENDQUOTE
I note also a police submission and others that point to the reality that police may underrate the number of suicides - classifying them as "accidents" and that suicide verdicts are given by coroners with such reluctance that the true statistics are far more horrifying and hidden.
I commend the reading some of these submissions to interested persons
Links should be accessed using cut and paste on the web addresses quoted. Once again thankyou "emj"
BJM
August 26th, 2010
My son's birthday is coming up soon and it will be the first birthday that we celebrate without him being present. The impact of his death has been enormous on his family and his friends, and we are all grieving his loss. The greater tragedy is the pain and torment that he suffered while he was here.
I'd like to share something with you - It's a quote from a book called "Tell me I'm here" by Anne Deveson who was instrumental in the foundation of what is now SANE Australia. It's a very personal story about her sons struggle with schizophrenia and her experience with him.
She quotes:
"At a Human Righs seminare in Brisbane, I heard this statement, which had beenmade by a Canadian mother at a similar conference in Toronto only a few months previously:
We are the parents of the throwaway schizophrenics, the disposables, the ones who are the most difficult to treat; who are often, as a result of their disability; unable to ask for or accept help. They refuse it.
Left without treatment they continue to suffer. Relatives must stand by and watch, unable to alleviate the suffering which in the main is ignored by the mental health care system until it is sometimes too late. It seems to be the same story the world over. We are the people who are told you can't help those who won't help themselves, and we reply under our breath that it seems to us that you won't help those who can't help themselves.
We are the people who mop up the blood of our sons and daughters when they have killed themselves, released from hospital too soon, or not considered sick enough to be hospitalised... When we ask psychiatrists why they do not declare our obviously ill relative incompetent, they reply that the Mental Health Act ties their hands. When we ask the bureaucrats and the politicians how such a law can be passed, they tell us that the psychiatrists are interpreting the law too narrowly. When we turn to the lawyers they tell us that the rights of the individuals are paramount... We are left helpless and hopeless, alone in our struggle to save the lives of our children."
BJM
August 26th, 2010
Regardless of what 'illness' they suffer - those who are tormented and in mental pain suffer a similar fate.
In the time it's taken me to write these blogs at least 3 people have attempted suicide in Australia.
The statistics are not just staggering - they are horrifying. They represent an enormous amount of suffering and pain for the one who is effected and for their families and friends.
The blame game has to stop.
It doesn't matter what the cause is - and not all mental ill-health has the same cause. The fact is that they are sick - just as if they had diabetes or a broken leg and need treatment.
We MUST help them NOW.
DD
August 27th, 2010
Sorry BJM it DOES matter what the causes(sic) are.
So long as we regard mental health as purely a medical problem as defined by specific illnesses, the vast majority of people suffering directly or indirectly, as a result of poor mental health, will remain unaided. In dealing with mental health we are simply behind the times, wedded to an antiquated view dominated by psychiatry and psychology
To conservative political parties - and I sometimes wonder if we have any other - the purely "biomedical" view of mental health is very attractive, for it blames the victim in that his suffering is either the fault of his behaviour or of his "mentality" or of his physiology.
So you can pour the money in with a reasonable certainty that it will not be squandered on the "patients" - but in fact will end up in the bank balances of overpaid professionals and administrators. And of course in the case of the Coalition these recipients are the very people who generally vote for them. I'm sorry but to deal with "mental health" purely in this fashion is blatant pork-barrelling
We need social change. Farmers are quite right in saying that they are often left too much to fend on their own through hard times. And these times may well become more frequent with the failure to address Climate Change. Climate Change therefore is of itself a mental health issue for the near future - if indeed it isn't already. Disasters as in Pakistan are becoming more frequent - the mental trauma there is colossal
Poor mental health does not necessarily mean the person is sick in the diagnosable medical sense. In fact most poor mental health has social rather than medical causes. Until we grasp that unpalatable (for some) reality, we will get almost nowhere
"Early intervention" is not just about identifying people with potential illnesses such as psychosis. It is about the whole environment in which our families live and our children grow up. It is about the WorldView promulgated by frequently irresponsible commercial media. It is about what remain deplorable public education standards and universities that are being dumbed down to catch the overseas dollar
It is about chronically bad housing and low cultural expectations. It is also about trying to force the children whose historical cultures lie outside the Anglo Celtic white australian ambit into somehow becoming part of it. Monoculturalism is impossible - what it creates is alienation - and alienation is part of poor mental health
In an emergency you must deal with the most chronic problems first. These are also the easiest to address. They are indeed the medical problems. Of course we need more hospitals and better services for the diagnoseably mentally ill - there is no dispute there. But mental health needs to be factored into ALL administrative and Governmental policy
If we want a mentally healthy society our rigid class structure and unsharing selfish social ethos must go. We need to construct a participatory modern democracy in which what this land provides is shared. We simply cannot afford the situation where a desperate unemployed or grossly underpaid underclass underlies a largely poverty stricken class that is both urban and rural and which props up a grossly overpaid and overprivileged middle and upper class. This misery for the majority of people - this lack of equality, prosperity and opportunity has to end
If we address the macro social problem then we will create an environment in which those with specific mental illnesses are better supported - in which many can live dignified independent lives and/or be cared for in supervised housing
But I am sorry- if you really have not yet learned that for ALL the mentally ill - for all those millions(sic) suffering poor mental health, society must change - If this realisation dos not motivate and even DOMINATE your voting patterns and your demands on political parties that we address our crippling social problems - If it does not lead you to grasp that mental health is not ONLY about medical illness - Then i wonder just how far we can actually get
Without that mental change all policy is like throwing money down a mineshaft.
With that mental change our psychic environment is already different and we can offer hope that currently for so many people is simply not there - and leads them to despair.
I believe we CAN fix it. But to do so demands acceding to what I believe is rapidly becoming a majority demand - which being that we replan and virtually relaunch our society in a manner not seen since Federation. We the people want the right to decide the nature of the society that we live in and leave to our children, and not just which corrupted elite rules the floor in Parliament House acting mostly at the behest of the rich and powerful and mere Caucus interests
It is a enormous job - but we need to make that start now using a God given opportunity to bring all policy and ideology out into the open in order that a consensus-based Parliament can function. The voice that the independents now have been given by electoral circumstance is the voice that we ALL should have. In some ways the social issue all centres on the mental health of the nation and we need social measures to fix it. For poor mental health is the barometer by which we can judge that our present social structures are dysfunctional
DD
August 27th, 2010
This is how easy it is to make social improvements. Cities such as Sydney still have large number of flats and houses that are empty because the owners' and developers' rental demands are excessive. Some areas have tens of thousands of such empty flats
This not only denies people accommodation - it denies the State the tax they would receive as a result of rental earnings
So how about allowing a landlord three months to let his apartment after which his rental demand is deemed to be actual income on which he is taxed at the full unearned income rate
Thus if he is demanding six hundred dollars a week rent he would pay tax of about thirty percent - two hundred dollars a week - on his deemed income
If he chooses to drop his rent to attract tenants he would still pay the same ratio on the rent demanded until it is let
To be fair possibly a maximum fair rental could be stipulated on which he would pay no tax - So - for example - if he dropped the rental demand to two hundred dollars a week he would pay no tax until the flat was occupied - which it probably quickly would be if the rent were affordable
A simple measure such as this - state or federal legislation would greatly take the pressure off the accommodation situation. Good clean homes are a major factor in mental health
Once again the owner would have three clear months to make any rental offer he chooses
After that he would be deemed to have that demand as an income on which he pays tax. Once he enters that realm a standard regulated lease should govern future tenancy preventing him from evicting his tenant merely to raise the rent in a better market
Cost to Government ZERO -- Income to Government through taxation - HIGH
Contribution to availability of housing - COLOSSAL
All monies raise through taxation to be spent on public rental housing.
charles
August 27th, 2010
Going way off topic here sorry people but what the heck.
What you might not have considered DD, is situations such as that which occurred in Blackwater about 8 years ago when the mine shut down and suddenly the population moved to Emerald and other towns, leaving blackwater with nearly twice the number of houses compared to residents. Any landlords would have found themselves simply unable to find tennants. Its actually staggering just how much empty housing there is out there, thanks to governments pushing for businesses to grow in the cities and force population there thanks to a complete lack of work out West.
Also, you might not have considered that there are very few landlords with significant portfolios. Most of them have less than 5 properties and the VAST majority of them are workers who were convinced by property development companies to pull their superannuation and invest it into the housing market for their retirement. A good many of them were sold by these businesses on the dream that housing prices were going to continue rising forever and are borrowed up to, and beyond, 90% of the value on the properties. My own former landlady was a 70 year old woman who owned her own home, the block of three flats I stayed in and another house which provided her with income in her retirement but with the drop in the market, are barely paying the interest on her loans.
Beyond that, many older Australians also own their homes outright and rely on a plan to sell them in order to fund their continued stay in a retirement or aged-care village. My own Grandparents made this investment, building their home from the concrete up, over 15 years after retiring to sell and fund themselves into the future. What you're proposing would cause a massive sell-off in the property market which would see these homes loose significant value.
While you might assist those struggling to find affordable accommodation or a chance to buy into an over-priced housing market, what you're doing is just shifting the pain to the families, aged workers and struggling small-time investers who are already in dispair over how far the market has already fallen. Aged people who have just watched their supperannuation evaporate to as low as 30% of it's worth and have nothing but the money and investment they've put into their home left to see them on something more than the pension.
Big investors will sell up and write the loss off in tax as they invest their millions elsewhere, while banks will claim the homes of families who will loose their deposit which is so very often their superannuation in the case of small time investors. Financial loss and hardships are a major factor in mental health.
In any case, businesses and big landlords would simply pull a cheat to get around it by making the public asking price miniscule and turning away any applications until people make a bid to rent it for more than the asking price. Many suburbs in Sydney actually have such high demand that this is actually happening. My own father was unable to get accommodation for many months until he learned that the trick was to offer more than the asking price in the application.
Cost to Government: COLOSSAL increase in pensioners
Shift of suicide to the elderly and home owners struggling to pay interest on their loans: COLOSSAL (Does this one line make my whole post on-topic now?)
If we're focused on the bush and climate change then allow me to go further off-topic and suggest it would be better to see some government focus and assistance on allowing farmers and communities to benefit directly from investment here, rather than big businesses. There's talk now of the long awaited clean energy corridor out to Mt. Isa wich ideas that businesses could invest in large renewable power-stations to boost the region's job market, but better yet, what about building community owned power with micro-grids to not only provide jobs but income that injects directly into the community instead of AGL shareholders. Surely moves such as this to provide jobs and income to the outback, supporting ownership of the assets and self reliance would significantly reduce stress out west and stab at the heart of suicide cause out there (Does that put me even more on topic?)
But it begs the question. Do we still need to put upto $3b into Youth mental health ‘headspace’ centres, early psychosis intervention centres , 24-hour suicide prevention and psychosis teams, Support for mental health patients to recover outside of hospitals, A national mental health education campaign similar to that on road safety and other measures including housing and social support services and training for counsellors? Or will people with psychotic disorders get by without reform and funding to the mental healthcare system if we just pump this money into the broad community instead? Is there really any need to discuss and fight for healthcare reform and funding at all or should we just keep talking about renewable power in the outback, house rental and Climate bonds or such?
DD
August 27th, 2010
One of my first jobs when leaving school was to work for a life assurance company, This was way back in the late 1960s
It was patently obvious to me that NO successful superannuation scheme could permanently operate. Ultimately all maturing policies are paid out using current premiums. If this intake of funds collapses then so does the pension fund. Enoch Powell in fact got it right when he said that money was never meant to be used as a means of passing wealth from generation to generation
The end result is that after a short period of good returns, caused by increasing premium intake, the superannuation funds collapsed. The backup for these funds was falsely overpriced real estate - and so the second effect of the superannuation disaster was to make homes unaffordable. And in some parts of the world - America especially - the whole house of cards has gone bung and a second dip is almost certainly on the way - and close. The worst is yet to come!
The only secure means of a safe and prosperous retirement is to create a compassionate and sharing society. Those who sought to retain and increase personal wealth with devil-take-the-rest-of-you financial dealings have suffered the fate I predicted over forty years ago. I feel sorry for their unreasoning stupidity.
We now need to unwind the social effects of these years of selfishness - years spurred on by the economics of Reagan and Thatcher and the Bush family. We cannot save the investments already lost - the market once heading for an index of 7000 is now at an index of 4400 - It will likely not recover that loss except through normal slow inflation, over the course of years
Inflating house prices to create a good investment was NEVER to my mind fair dealing. Real estate has been an excellent means of retaining savings but I do not view them as a reasonable way of increasing wealth because that increase happens at the expense of others.
A person with a home may lose his extra investment properties as capital increasing commodities, but he still has a home. Countless people in our society have not even got that and they MUST come first.. Indeed I expect my proposal would deflate an overpriced housing market, but as someone with a family who will need to buy their own homes I see that as a good thing
But please Charles - take a look at what you are saying - What are your priorities? Are they to feed, clothe and accommodate all our people in dignified circumstances and a protected and sustainable environment, or are they to provide a short term profit for some at the expense of others
What has this to do with mental health? - It is that within your answer lies your true attitude to other people. Those who are disadvantaged FEEL the negative attitude towards them, the selfish exploitation EVERY day of their lives - and such people may even be found in our own families, even amongst those we regard as closest. They experience the economic inability to turn to people who treat and regard them as lesser beings and tell them to stick it all where it fits. This is the source of so much mental inner conflict and despair, and this combined with the direct deprivation that is their environment, is part of what is destroying the mental health of our society
But you don’t have to get this from me - you can get this from organisations such as the World Health Organisation and from any number of welfare support societies. You can get if from talking to peoples cooperatives and perhaps seeking information elsewhere than your present TV stations and newspapers.
There is no point in pumping money into healing people if you do not simultaneously reform society so that they remain healthy and sustained. Do you cure a man of typhoid or cholera and return him to streets running with sewage? Of course not. He will get sick again.
And if you decide that you will privilege one group in terms of support on grounds of mental illness against another group who you classify as “healthy and not in need of support” where THEN is the motive to have good mental health - to seek treatment - to become well? Do we all have to pretend psychosis before you will listen to our pleas for social reform
Are those voices we are all hearing? Shall we tell you about the machines standing in the corner of the room and about our alien abductions? Is that what we have to do to get housing for our families and for ourselves? Is that the name of your game? Because people will play it.
(And on a more amusing note as to how far people will go - I have a friend who has three inflatable gorillas dressed in overcoats sitting in his car everywhere he goes. He is never late for work because he has found the way to use transit lanes without getting caught) Voices anyone?.
By the way there is an easy solution to dealing with landlords who advertise lower prices and then encourage a bidding war
You confiscate their asset and offer them psychological counselling to cope with their loss and to become "better people"
BJM
August 27th, 2010
Incredible!!
So you consider yourself compassionate. Gee I don't see it.
Now you are suggesting that people who have put their life savings into a property investment should be penalised and loose their asset for doing what the real-estate industry suggests.
And you accused them of having 'unreasoning stupidity'. I guess in your book that's not offensive. But gee I think it cerainly is.
The superannuation space of other countries back in the 60s has no significant relevance to the superannuation of this current day in Australia.
People were not only encouraged to self-fund their retirement by using superannuation - it was made compulsory.
I was managing an Accounting firm when compulsory superannuation was introduced and I saw LOTS of small businesses collapse under the financial burden - and LOTS more jobs lost as businesses struggled through that period. That doesn't mean I don't agree with it - but it came at a price to many. If you don't look after small business and those who are self-funding then you will increase unemployment and increase the burden to society. That's how it works.
As Charles has said not all rental properties are owned by large corporations. And even those that are - are largely part of a portfolio of investment for superannuation and other investors. You seem to forget that large corporations exist to make money for their shareholders - and most of these are normal families. It is the JOB of the CEOs of these companies to maximise profits - that's what they do.
If you decrease their ability to earn on their investments - it will effect the economy - prices will go up and the return to shareholders will go down. If profits are not increasing then the company will increase the price of whatever their core business is. Again - that's how it goes.
Or they will lay off employees and reduce costs by cutting spending and this too will impact the economy.
There has to be a balance. The property market is a complex formula and I think Charles has summed it up pretty well.
DD
August 27th, 2010
What I am telling you BJM is that you were fooled but I was not - so much so that my leaving the superannuation/assurance profession was a conscience decision. I simply was not morally capable of deceiving people into believing that the investment advice I was employed to give them was correct. How could I do that when I so sincerely knew that it was a product of a Scheinwelt deliberately created to exploit and that it could not hope to realise the dreams of sincere investors
The superannuation scam of the sixties has everything to do with that same scam in twenty first century Australia - it remains a means of devaluing wages in the short term by redirecting a portion of them to the middle classes who effectively “own” the investment companies- by creating funds of which they are the executive management. Clever isn’t it?
I fear that your problem is that you believed in this Scheinwelt and I respectfully suggest that like so many people your personal sustainability was wrapped up in that belief system. For reasons I cannot explain I was not granted that luxury of delusion and felt forced to make a conscience vote with my feet - I walked out.
The property market is NOT a complex formula. Market capitalist ideology is what has made it so. The property market is about the need for housing, for facilities in which to run both major and small business
The rest is bosh - bosh we have allowed to dominate our political parties - our parliamentary system - and to wreck our lives and mental health
I do not have a “special” moral mentality in having made my conscience decision. Some might claim it came from having never known my grandfather - a war hero who died in 1918 - some may say it came from a Christian family in which my own father decided to be a conscientious objector - some may say I should be awarded some mostly undeserved credit
But I speak to you BJM as I see it - not from some ideological program
The poor mental health of our society arises largely from the sheer unreality of the society that we are trained and forced to regard as normal. In art it sometimes takes a Vincent Van Gogh to help us see it as it really can be seen - both in its horror and in its beauty. Those who suffer mental disorders are the least able to cope with this paradox between reality and enforced delusion, for they are forced to experience both. That is what killed Van Gogh. You can see it in his self portraits.
Which is why those of us who are aware have some responsibility to try to reform society and to remove the paradox.
charles
August 28th, 2010
Interesting DD. You didn't even touch on my community owned and supported Climate change solutions. Surely you're still after the root caused of depression and illness. We all know that dirty energy erodes the ozone layer and allows through more UV rays which cause skin cancer, which caused much suffering as the victims go through chemothereapy and end up bald, yellow, bedridden with not even the strength to lift a glass of water and causing the entire room to smell like canned corn from their body odor before dying anyway. And we know that family and loved ones who sit through the months or years of this treatment, watching them suffer and die, are grief stricken and left traumatized themselves, often needing significant amounts of counciling and quantities of anti-depressants or just committing suicide.
Its plain and simple. Climate change with community sponsorded, owned and run, clean power solutions are the answer to all our needs for economic, social and healthcare reform.
GETUP: "This campaign to ensure we fight for real mental healthcare improvements" is over. Patrick McGorry was wrong! Don't let him steer you away from the real issues at hand here but rather, silence his ill conceived call for mental healthcare funding. The note that "mental ill health is the leading killer of Australians under 45 and the leading cause of disability for all Australians" is wrong as the real leading killer is rent and solar flares. Please close this blog and open up two more to deal with and campaign for climate change and social reform issues.
Wait! You already have some that could cover this!
Quite happy to discuss the topics you raise on the appropriate blog, Charles - for the record I share Professor Lovelock's(Gaia) views on clean energy and renewables in relation to climate change. If you are interest look them up on the internet
If certain selected capital works projects can make a community permanently sustainable then naturally I would support them but as to whether ALL of Australia can support viable large local populations that is another matter entirely - viability is a topic that really can only be discussed on a region by region and individual community basis.
I fear too many people have produced large families without sufficiently considering what the future of those children might be, thereby creating a generation of economically displaced and largely disinherited and dispossessed young people.
What is worse is that those same irresponsible parents are often the ones who most decry social planning. It is bad enough that this happens amongst working class people but we also have a bank of downwardly mobile middle class children who have been brought up with high expectations that their parents have made no attempt to provide and plan for except sometimes by private schooling and access to university. And I'm sorry - these days except in some professions a degree "just aint enough" for many it ends up as a passport to the unskilled labour market.
History reminds us that for many centuries after the collapse of the Roman Empire even Rome itself was little more than a group of villages where sheep grazed in the forum. No human artefact is eternal. "Think sustainable" or watch communities and individuals die and witness mental health deteriorating with the social decay and despair
As to the rant in the last paragraph of your post - I find it almost incomprehensible. My only comment here is that you seem to be determined to invest a mere tiny fraction of what I would spend on action aimed at improving the nations mental health
I might even spend the same amount as you on medical services - possibly far more - but I would add to that a colossal social environment program addressing the causes of mental ill health described so aptly by the World Health Organisation - and include in that work a major political, structural, economic, and administrative reform in our society
I don't think anything less has a prayer of doing the job or even having ANY effect at all
How much longer are we going to carry on with the mentality of moving the furniture around on the Titanic?
Sometimes, to be frank, I wonder what you see yourself as having to lose with social reform. I sincerely wonder just how much you might still have to lose - without it - before you grasp the need for it. That is indeed a bit rough. But sincerely it is how your comments make me feel.
BJM
August 28th, 2010
So well said Charles.
DD's been too busy beating me up because I didn't agree with him - and denying that he's said all this stuff....
Check out emj's links.. very worthwhile..
Also check out the Bring Change 2 Mind website - and the ad it self...
I think that Patrick McGorry and John Mendoza and the others can talk to the government about the changes that are needed.
I want everyone on an individual level to stop and think before they pass judgement on others... eg a personal challenge:
"When you see a young teen on drugs/ drunk behaving badly- do you look at them and think that they are a waste of space or do you stop to consider what kind of trauma they might have endured to take them to this place?"
If we, as a society can truly try to understand the impact of mental ill-health on the person and their family, friends and community - maybe then we will be able to move from this deadly stigma.
charles
August 28th, 2010
I would like to note that I'm not against the discussion of social reform. I think its an important topic and should actually sit as a sort of parent blog to all the others where the low/high level issues can be discussed and spawn into campaigns that chip away at our nations social and political issues one specific chunk of concrete at a time until there is no wall left to chip at.
I know DD isn't against this campaign's objectives as he himself has said "The call to expand and develop mental health services is not a repressive plot - quite the contrary - Its aim is to free a multitude of people from illness that troubles them - to relieve suffering. It is the noblest of causes" and "It is time to stop the excuses - stop "trying" to persuade government to give us a better mental health service and better health services - demand them! Demand an end to the chain of suffering and death. People live in misery because we allow the socially unacceptable to continue."
He's also noted housing affordability and availability a few times and indeed, its also important, although I believe its asking the chissel to wonder a bit when what we need is another chissel to hit that spot (there might be a blog on the homeless and/or people in poor/inadequate accomodation already. I'll post the link if I find it). This chissel is aimed specifically at the notes DD has made above, calling to expand and develop mental health services and needs to stay targeted on the goals outlined by Patrick McGorry until it breaks through and weakens the wall.
Holding the discussions of social and political reform here just asks the chissel to keep wondering around the wall instead of hammering on at it's designated spot until it breaks through. We make no progress on the specific issue the blog is targeting and we make no progress on the equally, if not more, important social and political discussion/planning DD wants to bring up because it just spawns nothing but a debate about keeping focused on the specific goal this campaign targets.
Here's another blog I found which does actually focus on the discussion of the gap between rich and poor: Two Australians
NOTE: I say low/high because it depends on your point of view as to where the discussion sits. Some would see social/political reform as the roots of the tree which affect the health and stability of the whole plant, while others see it as the flowers or fruit made bright or juicy thanks to the combination of many individual roots, leaves and branches that are all grown or set in place to combine for the marvelous outcome. But that can be part of the discussion in the Human Rights thread or another if that one is considered too narrow.
DD
August 29th, 2010
Unfortunately it is the Howard/Abbott Coalition that has derailed much of the mental health debate by nothing less than using deceit in putting forward deceitful election promises - not me, Charles. My conflict comes by my abiding by WHO guidelines relating to mental health - just that.
Abbott sought to respond to a popular demand for improved mental health services by promising to throw money at the purely medical component of the problem - one hearty cheer! This is where I feel people like yourself lack vigilance. When a skilled politician such as Abbott makes such an “election promise” the key to it is costings - and Abbott refuses to allow Treasury costings to be made on the Coalitions “promises” - One might argue that these “promises” are worthless - and not even genuine “policies” UNTIL they are costed
What seem abundantly clear is that Abbott intends to “fund’ his mental health “promise” by internally shuffling the health budget, and no doubt by downgrading other relevant welfare services
What he deliberately "fails to recognise" is that the mentally ill are the most affected by ANY downgrading of services, cutback of housing programmes, failure to reform medical administration, reduction in educational services etc
One can reasonable argue that all politicians play these dishonest games - but there is a way round this deceit and organisations such as GetUp are in the best position to play this trump card
The technique is to demand that the WHOLE of a problem be fixed in place of a pattern of economic shuffling that downgrades one area to finance another. We know that only in this manner - addressing the complete problem - can any individual compartmentalised PORTION of an OVERALL problem be fixed. All else is self-delusion and deceit - for in an area such as mental illness the compartmentalisation is purely artificial and not endorsed by the research or by international standards
We don’t need to re-invent the wheel on this. All the research material is out there confirming what I am saying and indeed this material is all endorsed by the World Health Organisation
It is not me that is out of joint with reality C, it is you. Party allegiance would not make me support a deceitful policy promise in order to promote what I saw as “my” party in an election period (and sadly we still seem to be effectively in one) - rather I would go back to my party and say “come off it” and “don’t lie to me”
But currently starting with his accession to the position of leader by adopting a Climate Change Denial position (which he further confuses by claiming he has the best policy to fix what he claims to be “crap”) Abbott has turned the Coalition into a political force RULED by populism and lies. In my over thirty years of life in Australia I have never seen such blatant Right Wing political hypocrisy - not even under the awful Howard
Do you want to fix mental health or don’t you Charles? - that is really what I am asking. One must either tackle the job or get out of the way. If other political considerations come first then a person is of no use to such a campaign- in fact whatever his personal experience he is reform's enemy.
Australia is beginning to wake from a long sleep - one broken momentarily once before under Whitlam. The wheel has turned full circle and the people have arrived at their starting point - the need for total social reform and a virtual refounding of Australian society - knowing it for the first time. They have had enough of a media orchestrated “Tweedledum and Tweedledee” parliamentary theatre. They want Parliament back as a genuine responsive democratic forum - back as a power house for reform, modernisation, and change
They can see the machinations and hypocrisy of parties. They can see the whole arrogant pattern of an Opposition that sees itself as a “Rightful Government in Exile” and the failure of a Government which began so well with its apology to our aboriginal peoples but simply failed to go far enough in other areas - most especially when they had that opportunity to do so with Greens help
The present situation is not some luck and fate driven anomaly. The Australian people have DELIBERATELY created the election outcome we have had. Many people on the Labor side used their vote to SAY in the only way they could “you are not going far enough” - that is why they put the Greens down as their main, primary vote and relegated Labor to first preference. That is why we have a Senate coming in the middle of next year that will have the balance of power dominated by the Greens - the people as a whole unit wanted it so
So NOW is the time to demand real reform - not just some money emptily promised to fund some of Patrick McGorry’s suggestions - stolen from other areas
If our society cannot provide what its people are entitled to. If it cannot share prosperity and support its weakest members - if it is driving people into despair,depression and suicide and triggering latent psychosis - then it is not so much the patient that needs to be sent for treatment - although indeed he must be anyway
It is the society itself that needs healing. Seize the powerful moment that we have to start that process of reform.
charles
August 29th, 2010
DD, "Mate, the election is over. I think the result demonstrates that it is time to get back to the individual issues themselves - and that is what GetUp is here for."
The first five lines of your post are roughly on topic and then, once again, the chissel deviates and we steer this thread away from this "noblest of causes". Once again you are out of joint with this thread's goals DD and are reverting to an anti-abbott fear campaign which will lead to nothing but the debate with others noting the lack of a cost benefit analysis on the NBN and the mud being thrown back and forth. Rather than attacking another party's policies I would go back to my party and say “come off it, match the other side in this noblest of causes".
This is not the place to attack your party's opposition with mention of climate change denial but rathre you could encourage real progress in this area by reviving the discussion in tne appropriate Climage change thread. You noted that you were happy to discuss such things with me in the appropriate thread and yet here we remain, letting the chissel wonder when you could have begun smashing it in at the appropriate thread.
The same goes for the discussion of social reform and I wonder what it is you have to loose by initiating constructive discussion about it in the appropriate thread. So stop the fear campaign of paranoia that every second man is a party man before this topic descends again into a debate on religion and move the social reform and climage change discussions to their appropriate thread together with the discussion on the gap between rich and poor where they can make real progress. Abandon your anti-trust campaign against the policies and adopt the more constructive stance you held earlier to call for legislative change that forces hospitals to responsibly care for these people and thus, a requirement for appropriate funding now and into the future, beyond the promises.
Seize this moment to begin constructive discussion in the threads and revive them so that real progress can be made. Those issues are too important to be used as little more than a diversion from this most nobelest of causes.
DD
August 29th, 2010
If the situation on the Land is as dire as some would claim - might it not just be possible that the National Party has spent decades in Coalition with the WRONG people? - Doh!
Maybe if they really wish to serve our rural people they too need to make a major political shift. Reform begins at home.
charles
August 27th, 2010
The fight for real mental healthcare improvements is looking pretty good with the Independent's stand on things.
I'm still guessing they'll push Labor to beat, or get close to, Liberal's committment to mental healthcare funding and hook up with them for the term.
Don't expect it to move ahead too much for at least 6 months though. I get the impression there is other stuff they plan to tackle first and it'll probably take some time, but it appears safe to say that help will be on the way.
BJM
August 27th, 2010
Another quote - this one from a book called "Flying with paper Wings" by Sandy Jeffs - a story about one woman's struggle with mental illness....
She says: "We may never understand what makes us mad but we can seek to understand what makes us well."
For bloggers on this site who are struggling to support an ill loved one or who are suffering themselves.
Please ignore DDs lack of compassion and continual stigmatisation of mental illness.
Stay strong - and understand that there is a HUGE part of our society who get it - mental ill-health is just another illness and it's not something to be ashamed of and treatment is not something to be afraid of.
There are some who genuinely understand what is needed and many of these people will not stop fighting for your rights and needs.
BJM
August 27th, 2010
Another quote - this one from a book called "Flying with paper Wings" by Sandy Jeffs - a story about one woman's struggle with mental illness....
She says: "We may never understand what makes us mad but we can seek to understand what makes us well."
For bloggers on this site who are struggling to support an ill loved one or who are suffering themselves.
Please ignore DDs lack of compassion and continual stigmatisation of mental illness.
Stay strong - and understand that there is a HUGE part of our society who get it - mental ill-health is just another illness and it's not something to be ashamed of and treatment is not something to be afraid of.
There are some who genuinely understand what is needed and many of these people will not stop fighting for your rights and needs.
DD
August 27th, 2010
I find your claim that I am lacking in compassion deeply offensive . So much so that I would rather it be left on the blog than removed. It is an example f what genuine reformers are up against. What should be our greatest allies, all too often are our greatest impediments to progress for they use their personal tragic experiences sometimes to validate a worldview that is simply wrong
You seem to me to be flying in the face of major analyses of the causes of poor mental health in the community, and confusing the limited area of actual mental disorder and illness with the overall picture of mental health. I have quoted one organisation - no less than the World Health Organisation - that goes out of its way in its defining of mental health to unravel this confusion. You seem determined to recreate the conceptual mess
I can accept that your particular experience took the tragic form of an actual classifiable disorder, which you may rightly feel was improperly handled and in this I am sure we are all supportive of your call for better services in that particular area of mental health
But - you seem to be wanting to leave the vast majority of sufferers in the lurch - for unless their problem is diagnosable with one of your acclaimed labels you do not seem to think their mental health counts
Mental ill health is not a labelled “illness” per se as you would have it be. But this lack of labels does not reduce the suffering that particular experience of poor mental health brings. Indeed as Professor Tatz in his submission to the Senate Inquiry into suicide in Australia explains, amongst members of the Aboriginal community diagnosed mental illness is not the most major factor in suicide.
I believe he expresses admirably something we really need to take on board in relation to mental health generally, which being that “the clinical psychological/psychotherapeutic model” is not “the only framework for understanding and treating the suicide phenomenon” - and I would extrapolate further - it is not the only, or even the most appropriate, model for approaching the subject of mental health in society as a whole.
I would go so far as to say that automatically classifying as straightforward mental “illness” that which displays itself as poor mental health is killing people in vast numbers, because as a result the social factors fail to be addressed. What replaces actually addressing social factors is a determined attempt to regard everything as coming down to making sick people medically able to cope
This won’t help relieve much mental distress on the land, or in poor urban areas with negligible infrastructure, bad education and services, chronically bad housing with negligible reasonable rental property available. You accuse me of being lacking in compassion because I look at the devastating overall picture of mental health, and do not limit myself to looking at actual disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar/manic depression
I don’t apologise for looking at that societal picture - most especially because the WHO and a battery of experts tell me that I must. I listen to what they are saying and I am not fooled by those who claim to be addressing mental illness by making cosmetic changes in the health budget, and by taking from other areas essential to good mental health, in order to increase services to a limited chronic illness area. It is all too obvious that if you take from one essential area to support another the end effect is negligible. What is required is an “overarching” addressing of the social problem of mental health including the area of actual mental disorder within it.
I am asking for more - much more than you seem to be wanting BJM. I do so because I know what it is to be brought up as a disadvantaged person and to try to navigate unaided and ill advised through a social minefield. Many of my friends did not make it. I was lucky, but it has not left me unmarked either
What it has left me with is a determination to see social improvements that will not force more generations to go through what so many of my generation went through - and even worse did not survive - sometimes physically, and sometimes mentally.
I don’t think you have walked in my shoes BJM any more than I have walked in the shoes of someone who has lost a child through diagnosed mental illness. But I am not left through my experiences as being a person who thinks that we live in a society that is perfect, and that those who are mentally ill are totally physically or psychically/psychologically personally somehow at fault for their situation
Maybe you could reflect on one obvious point: In the case of schizophrenia the disease/disorder is a disease in the person
The failure to treat it however and to support its sufferers and to show true support and compassion to their loved ones is part of a major social disease in our society - one that regards dispossession, poverty, exploitation, homelessness, ignorance, illiteracy, repression, alienation, disadvantage and even abuse as somehow normal - as essential factors in a market economy.
In truth these factors are destroying that same economy - look no further than the economic downturn. The declining mental health of society has a great deal of causal importance there too. Truly - it may sound harsh but until what is essentially the attitude to mental health promulgated by the World Health Organisation is grasped no-one can really help people who find themselves in your sad situation, because you reject the analysis and together with it the remedies.
BJM
August 27th, 2010
I guess the fact that you find my comments offensive only shows that you aren't prepared to look at yourself and how the things that you say might effect others.
My comment refers again to the way that you continue to feed the stigma around mental health. The continued references to people as 'victims' having 'defects' etc. The way you take the topic of mental health and any comments that are said, twist them to create a platform to launch your own agenda for social reform.
Your continual reference and inferences that ALL mental ill-health is a result of a deprived existence - lack of housing, employment, food etc... continually implies that those suffering and their families must then have had a 'deprived' life. This is not reflective of any of the real-life stories that I have heard and / or read.
To imply such is an insult to those who are ill and their families.
You continue to say that there's no point in helping those who are already ill. An attitude that says that they don't matter - which well outweighs any of the good intentions around your rants for social change.
Maybe you should try to be consistent in your application. You can't say that people feel the negative attitudes and then feed that attitude yourself. That's not very fair.
Blaming the family and their circumstances is nothing more than alienating those that have worked hard to provide for their families and still been effected by ill-health.
Many of the things that you refer to are not things that I have said or believe. I have NEVER said that these things are not RISK factors. Again - they are not the ONLY cause of mental ill-health.
Mental ill-health includes conditions of psychosis and also anxiety and depression and it also includes addictions and many other conditions.
I have not ever said that my son had been 'diagnosed' or 'labelled' with a mental illness as you say. The truth is that he died without any of us understanding what 'illness' he had. He was labelled all right - as a 'drug addict' 'alcoholic' and 'troubled' - all of which are SYMPTOMS only of what was going on inside. The tragedy is that this story is not uncommon and in fact I hear it again and again every day.
Do the experiences of childhood cause mental ill-health - absolutely. These experiences are not in my experience related to the things you want to change about society. My son's issues probably came from experiences as a child - the pain of rejection, teasing, taunting, bullying, societies expectations that he achieve the best academic results, be the best footballer, have friends and be 'normal'. His childhood experiences did NOT include inadequate housing, education, food or unemployment in his family. He in fact, even as a drug addict was fully and gainfully employed. As his health deteriorated he became unable to hold down a job - and was at times homeless. These were things that were the RESULT of his illness and NOT the CAUSE. And being homeless was something he had no ability to address and I don't believe he needed to be.
If we can do something about identifying problems early and providing treatment early we will directly reduce the number of homeless and we will reduce the number of the mentally ill in jails and see more of them able to work.
My challenge is about reducing the stigma around mental ill-health. It won't matter one iota if we restructure society and provide all the things that you are saying (which I don't see as being the massive problem that you are implying - and in the WHO fact sheet when they talk of these things they refer to low and middle-income countries - which we are NOT). We can fix these things - and it won't matter. People will not seek help until the stigma is gone. Until we stop with the negative attitude to children, until we stop bullying, until we withdraw our expectations that they achieve what society says they should or what their parents say they should. Nothing will change.
It's in the heart of each of us that the stigma can be removed - and that's possible.
It seems to me that you are tied to a time that no longer exists. You keep going back to society of old. Australia is a wonderful country - and although these social problems exist it is not the majority of Australians who suffer these problems. The Australia I live in is a multicultural society whose attitudes are changing toward that of more open acceptance of others - whether cultural or social standing. Australia is NOT a class society. Everyone in Australia (with few exceptions) have the opportunity of housing, education and the things you say that they don't. All they have to do is be prepared to is change their own circumstances. I will acknowledge that there are some that cannot do this - and in many cases these people already have some mental ill-health.
I understand that there is a major shortage of housing in some areas - but not in others. So, if there was an attitude of 'I'll do what it takes to move to where there is housing and do what it takes to get a job" - education is available. There is work around if you want it. If my son can find work even as a drug addict. Some ownership of their own circumstances has to happen. Many of us have come from very poor backgrounds and built a life, a home, got an education and a job, and do not suffer mental ill-health
I understand that there are exceptions - and these people need support - encouragement, education and assistance. But I don't believe that this is the norm in this country nor do I believe that becoming a socialist country will fix these problems.
I have NEVER said that they don't need addressing. They do. But to put off helping those who are currently suffering and ill in favour of changing the fabric of society is incredibly offensive to those who are ill and those that care for them. This is a very strong statement that they don't matter and aren't worthwile.
While this attitude exists and if it was to ever actually get a voice we are perpetuating the alienation and displacement of the mentally ill.
I find your attitude of blame and your rejection that mental ill-health is not always the result of deprivation more than offensive - but dangerous to those effected by mental ill-health.
DD
August 27th, 2010
Your claim that I have suggested that all mental ill health stems “from a deprived existence” is utterly ludicrous and worries me because I take it as a determination not to allow a different world view to exist in an environment you claim personally to define
Again I refer you to the World Health Organisation documents which make a clear distinction between mental health in terms of society and individuals, and mental illness/disorders.
Your real argument is therefore not with me but with such as the WHO
You claim that I do not consider that there is a point in helping those that are already ill - again a distortion. What I say is that irrespective of ALL other considerations services for those that are diagnoseable as suffering from mental illness are totally inadequate - but I add that to reduce services in other relevant areas in order to make cosmetic changes in mental health services - the finances for which will largely end up in the accounts of already overpaid professionals - is counter productive
Diagnoseable and classifiable mental illness is NOT the major cause of mental ill health. But the needs of those with specific illnesses often coincide with those other sufferers - so that in addressing the broader picture we automatically address the smaller, but for many, such as yourself, more poignant one.
As for your personal experience I hesitate to address it, although I do have some experience in that area. You refer to drug addiction and alcoholism and cite these as symptoms only of deeper problems. Many support fellowships might disagree with you there, and to the best of my knowledge most mental health workers still consider themselves unable to assist unless the sufferer himself has come to terms with his need to at least remove those monkeys from his back
I refer you to just one source containing a belief system still ascribed to by most professionals dealing with alcoholism - it may be of some help to you - it was written by Bill Wilson - who sometimes got it right!
“Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals—usually brief—were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn’t done so yet.” ENDQUOTE
I think you might find a little time spent around Al-Anon - the fellowship for families and friends of drug addicts and alcoholics - useful. For all AA’s faults I’d give it a try even now - one day at a time.
BJM
August 27th, 2010
I'm pleased to see you say "As for your personal experience I hesitate to address it" but then attempt to address it anyway.
My son was sick BEFORE he started doing drugs and drinking. These were his way of self-medicating. This is extremely common. Substance abuse is also considered a mental illness.
The DSM IV includes substance disorders in it's list of mental illnesses and says: "The two disorders in this category refer to either the abuse or dependence on a substance. A substance can be anything that is ingested in order to produce a high, alter one's senses, or otherwise affect functioning. The most common substance thought of in this category is alcohol although other drugs, such as cocaine, marijuana, heroin, ecstasy, special-K, and crack, are also included. Probably the most abused substances, caffeine and nicotine, are also included although rarely thought of in this manner by the layman."
The problem with the attitude that they have to take control is that if it is part of a mental illness they largely simply can't. Not all alcoholics can stop drinking - with or without support. My son did - and suicided 5 months later. Part of his trauma was his struggle without his medication.
The federal government and every state government has a policy of dual-diagnosis - but this was completely ignored.
I'm not sure why you keep presuming that I have some particular bend toward diagnosable conditions versus the others... that's never been in anything that I have said.
A psychologist sold my son that the reason why 'labels' are useful (classifying his condition - which was never classified clearly) is that it makes it easier to communicate with his doctor and psychiatrist - that's the only reason why they 'label' a condition.
The reality is that even inside the classifiable conditions the symptoms and treatments are so varied that they have to be defined for each sufferers. EG: not all schizophrenics hear voices and not all bi-polars suffer repeated 'manic' phases, not all depression sufferers consider suicide. The classification is needed to obtain treatment and medications. Without it the ill get turned away - and they do even with it.
And in relation to this: "Diagnoseable and classifiable mental illness is NOT the major cause of mental ill health." This sentence doesn't even make sense. Diagnosable and classifiable mental illness IS mental ill health. I'm not sure what you are talking about. If it IS the illness how can it be the cause at all.
DD
August 28th, 2010
You have reached the point where you are clearly visualising the existence of a point you do not follow, BMJ. So I will approach it from your side
YOU say "Diagnosable and classifiable mental illness IS mental ill health" - the response to that is "but it does not encompass ALL of it" and indeed it does not encompass most of it
With mental health "health" is not defined by the absence of disease processes - a person can suffer from poor mental health without being ill at all.
That is the problem that needs to be grasped. Surely you can understand that a person who commits suicide is in the vast majority of cases definable as "someone with poor mental health" - and yet the motivation for suicide and its mechanism may well not be mental illness. Mental illness may play no part in it. Farmers who despair and kill themselves are NOT necessarily people who have mental illnesses. That is why the situation on the land in these matters is so desperate. Looking at their plight in terms of illness rather than stress which can be economic, legal, administrative, marital, or physical etc would actually block early intervention.
To get round this dilemma some psychiatrists would insert the concept "depressed" as if this ALWAYS defined a mental illness condition. But this has created an even greater problem in that the diagnosis of "depression" has been used as a substitute for proper diagnosis and research. An obvious case of this error is the confusion that has arisen in the areas of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Gulf War Syndrome.
In the case of GWS for a long time even American Veterans Affairs specialists treated it as "depression" thereby avoiding the medical costs involved in proper research and proper treatment of sufferers
In CFS the error has at times taken the level of borderline medical fraud - by deliberately circumventing Centres for Disease Control Guidelines (Fukuda et al) some famous psychiatrists who truly should know better have been classifying large numbers of sufferers of "clinical depression" as having CFS
They then use this same body of patients as evidence to claim that CFS is in fact a form of depression. The waters are further muddied because these poor confused depressed patients then can swamp the support societies for CFS(CFIDS) and GWS skewing medical conception of the disease clusters and blocking proper research into the real conditions.
The fact that so many people classified as "depressed" do not commit suicide rather rules it out as a certain causal factor. Thus while the identification of depression is of vital importance one is really often only at the beginning of the chain of identifying the nature of a persons problem OR(sic) illness. "Depression" as a classification is all too often used as a "retrospective" diagnoses used to explain an event that has already taken place and perhaps been fatal. It is an excuse for inaction in reforming society and addressing the real problems of mental health in our society. It is "blaming the victim" again. Coroners should be especially careful in allowing "depression" as a contributory cause of death in coronial inquests UNLESS a prior analysis and diagnosis exists
"Depression" is big business. It is a career for specialists rather like classifications such as Asperger Syndrome (as against autism) and - as in the latter case - once the medically unqualified psychologists get in on the act the poor patient can end up in total confusion (as do his long suffering relatives)
My comments in the earlier post are purely theoretical - only you would know if they are applicable to any specific case. They are based on your raising questions of alcoholism and drug addiction, not on references to any particular person, except relating to my suggestion of a fellowship you might be advised to contact. This latter suggested contact refers to your personal feelings and wish to understand
Regards DD
emj
August 28th, 2010
Social Selection Theory and Social Causation Theory as applied to mental illness - both have to be addressed, as both may apply differently to different mental illness.
Suicide- there are many pathways to suicide, a search of PubMed will outline some.
DD
August 30th, 2010
I'd like to make a suggestion. This has been a very valuable blog but I think its success has reshaped its focus
If Professor McGorry wanted to start Public debate he has done rather well and I take my hat off to him
I think it is abundantly clear that the problems of mental Health are far from being just about funding and most certainly not about internally juggling medical funding and changing internal priorities
Maybe it is time to relaunch this campaign with a new underlying guideline - which I suggest should be WHO guidelines for understanding mental health and not some support or local organisation's edited version
We need to get away from a discussion largely triggered by an unresolved election campaign and by political promises - and get back to basics
Politics - according to WHO - like Human Rights and economics play a major role in mental health. but I would like to see us move to depoliticising the medical content
With a gloriously hung Parliament we have a great opportunity for a consensus to remove treatment medicine from the political arena and place it in an apolitical administrative one. If we did that it would cease to be the realm of meaningless promises and populist disruption aimed at securing votes rather than better services.
charles
August 30th, 2010
GETUP: Thankyou for your work to restore this blog to it's rails. It is much appreciated.
A message from Prof. Patrick McGorry: "One side of politics has committed about four times as much as the other side to mental healthcare and investment but neither side has committed to a long-term, sustained plan to turn this around which is what we need,"
So what is he proposing to push whoever our new PM is to allocate the necessary resources and see that it goes beyond the present election term? To set up a prime ministerial council on mental health which will hold the Prime Minister (whoever they might be) to their commitment to this being a serious agenda with the key advocates and experts being involved.
DD
August 30th, 2010
I don't think that would be enough, C - in that there really is no structure for "holding our politicians accountable" We cannot "recall' our representatives except at election time
I agree however with the basic suggestion of the need to have a public Council on mental health.
What is essential is its terms of reference. I do not believe we will get anywhere until the standards we are addressing are international ones and the areas we considered are as wide ranging as those laid down by the WHO
So once again I think the WHO guidelines on mental health and their associated papers and publications would be the way to set a sufficiently wide ranging agenda which would get us out of the short sightedness that the tyranny of distance has caused
In Climate Change we campaign within a conceptual framework and research bank provided by IPCC - in Human Rights we look towards the international standards set by the United Nations. including in relation to refugees. In war conventions we look to the Geneva conventions
Let us not re-invent the wheel. WHO has looked hard at all the problems of politicking and populism to come up with a set of standards that can be used as a guide to action in mental health and health generally whatever the current political makeup of Governments
I think we should get back to those unedited standards. An inquiry should be able to make recommendations in all areas recognised by the WHO as relevant to mental health indeed it should be demanded of them that they do.
BJM
August 30th, 2010
Well it seems GetUp has revealed it's real reason for this blog.
They have deleted my quotes from people who are actual consumers of these services and also my reference to the International Suicide Prevention Day.
Yet DDs ranting and raving about the need for a new world order remains.
I'm out of here. I won't be part of a blog that is supposed to be about 'mental health reform' but is instead nothing more than a mecahnism to push other agendas - such as the need for an egalitarian society.
Good luck with that one... I can't see it coming off - but you go for it.
charles
August 30th, 2010
Don't giveup BJM. The posts were deleted from DD's response to my own and downwards from there. Sometimes to eliminate an outright debate you need to remove the source and there may have been some excessive snipping done to your discussion that was at the end of the blog here. I still have a copy if there was something important you would have liked to remain. Maybe they took your notation of the WHO to be a further part of the diversion that has existed in this campaign and thought your notation of suicide prevention day was an extention of this.
Apathy and surrender is what some here would like you to do or feel and they badger on at you until you feel it, encouraging you to respond aggressively and loose sight of the goals this thread aims for.
Remember, "The call to expand and develop mental health services is not a repressive plot - quite the contrary - Its aim is to free a multitude of people from illness that troubles them - to relieve suffering. It is the noblest of causes"
DD
August 30th, 2010
In fact both an original post and a response were deleted and that seems perfectly reasonable to me despite the fact I spent a great deal of time composing the response
It is GetUps blog page and I have no quarrel with the decision. Surely if a post creates a problem and is deleted the response becomes irrelevant
Once again I feel the difficulty lies in the attempt to set someone else's agenda instead of abiding by clear international mental health guidelines. If we abided by those there would be no conflict because the guidelines are well researched and intended for that purpose. They are aimed at consensus, at preventing conflict, and at depoliticising mental health
What has surprised me has been the realisation that so much fault can be laid at the door of people attempting to generally impose limited local rules and of support group editing of recognised standards In fact I think that is the very hub of the problem around which everything revolves.
BJM
August 30th, 2010
Thank you for your support. I'm really not interested in taking part in any conversation where the continual denegration of those that suffer with or those who have lost loved ones to mental illness is allowed to continue.
This nonsense is nothing more than using the mental health update forum as an avenue to preach about his own particular world view.
It is constantly full of such a huge lack of respect for those who this will actually personally effect - and if someone who is unwell is to read this stuff - it could keep them from seeking help - and ultimately cost a huge amouont.
I am extremely passionate about fighting for change - and the most important impact I can have is to show people that each of us harbours negative attitudes to the way we view people who are unwell....
This isn't possible in this forum - as GetUp would rather remove positive quotations that provide an insight into the pain of loss and references to the International Suicide Prevention Day - while allowing months of the stigmatisation to continue.
It seems that the blog does from time to time have other contributors - but mostly they don't stay long - and I can't blame them - this is NOT a blog that shows any respect for mental health - or ill-health in our society at all.
If GetUp want to monitor this blog they need to remove all of the stigmatisation - or accept the truth - that this blog has NOTHING to do with mental health.
DD
August 30th, 2010
Excuse me but there is a response needed here. Experience may give me insight but it does not grant me the right to claim greater credibility unless I identify myself and allow the full case I use as my "authority" to be considered
I am certainly not asking for that. I try as much as possible to hold a theoretical discussion using my experiences only as (challengeable)illustrations of what I am putting forward theoretically. Analysis of particular cases used to support a theoretical agenda really belongs to support group areas and not on a line such as GetUp. And to be effective an organisation such as GetUp has to consist largely of resilient participating members. These are hard battles we fight - matters of Human Rights especially
A support group pressing a particular point of view quite normally assembles a battery of illustrative anecdotes that superficially validate their point of view - but these unexamined are not "evidence", they cannot -without close examination, alter the theoretical view. That is very basic science.
The pattern of using anecdotes largely originated in AA - the members of the first AA group set down their personal experiences. Their aim was not to define alcoholism but to set down experiences that fellow sufferers might identify with, and that might start them on the road to recovery. "Identification" meetings in support groups serve the same purpose - they are shared experience not shared theory. AA and Al-Anon themselves set their own theoretical ideas down in separate chapters and leaflets.
Experience alone does not make an expert. I have a friend who has crashed his car on several occasions over the last couple of years. He has also burned out one engine by running it dry of water and damaged another by not checking the oil level
He has brilliant and extensive experience - more than many of us accumulate in a lifetime
But when he offered to teach my children how to drive, I said "Thanks but no thanks"
GetUp is a relatively new organisation on a learning curve. It is very possible that with the extent of astroturfing going on there needs to be a protocol for using "personal experiences" that are not submitted to examination. On the internet it is well known that people can claim to be anyone and to have had any validating experience. We have to live with this problem that the nature of the internet media and anonymity cause
Out there in Cyberland there are "sixteen year old schoolgirls" who are in fact fifty year old men and an endless array of people claiming to be what they are not. That is why ultimately in progressive campaigning blogs it is theory that counts rather than experience. In support blogs where experience is more often discussed the writer is generally personally known to many of his fellow posters and of course monitored as to content.
If it is the measure of our right to an opinion I can cite as claims five cases of people I have known who were lost to mental illness in the form of suicide. four were close friends. You don't have to believe me if you so choose. Two died of drug overdoses - one using a hot shot and the other using tablets - one jumped off a tall building, one simply faded away into a mixture of drugs and despair, one hanged himself on his 21st birthday.
Please let us not play the experience numbers game - it will get us nowhere. I firmly believe lives can be saved in vast numbers when we address all of the problems of mental health. If I wanted to give a message to sufferers and carers out there it would be hold fast - Australia is more aware than it has ever been of your problems - help is there or close - and we need your help and presence too to put thinks right
charles
August 30th, 2010
Good luck BJM. Who knows, maybe we'll meet again in the great net, or in the city of Brisbane herself at some Getup meeting if you place more faith in progress made through other mediums of the organisation.
BJM
August 30th, 2010
Thanks again Charles
My faith or wish to belong to GetUp died when they launched the anti-Abbott ad... without releasing a similar one for Julia...
I'm not interested in being in any group that has a political agenda.
I wish this blog all the very best - and hope that GetUp will actually do something about getting rid of the negative agressive single-minded attitude and provide a place where everyone is entitled to a view / opinion without being attacked for it.
I would like to see GetUp ban this man from this blog because everything he says just goes deeper and deeper at the core of the reason why people don't want to ask for help - it is a great example of the stigma and attitudes that make people afraid of what it might mean.
Clearly he has issues with looking into himself - and would rather hold on tight to one piece of paper he's found that substantiates his view (in his opinion) and use it to support his own agenda.
I certainly would hope that GetUp wise up and get him off this blog.
Take it easy
DD
August 30th, 2010
It is entirely one thing to say "I'm not interested in being in any group that has a political agenda."
Quite another to join such a progressive group and then complain bitterly that it has a progressive political agenda, BJM.
Former GetUp director Brett Solomon was interviewed on the ABC in 2007 and said:
"And the board itself, it’s not an easy beast, GetUp is not a traditional, it doesn’t fit traditionally into party politics and so our board itself, it reflects the span of political participation so we’ve got people who are from the unions, people who are part of the environment movement, Don Mercer who’s the Chair of the Institute of Company Directors and former ANZ and Orica and so on.
We’ve actually have got a board that’s reflective of a broad span of political views. But thing is that it is a new form of politics, it is a new way of engaging people. It’s not actually trying to sidestep the political process but it is trying to re-engage and revitalise the political process."
Now you want to ban me from this blog because I have so much fought against attempts to derail GetUps progressive agenda. What you claim on your part as an apolitical view is an acutely political ACT. For the most part I am responding and I am delighted to personally remove outdated posts, that is where some of them go. I really wish that this attempt to derail GetUp would desist but in my experience not responding does not work and one is left with utilising the resultant exchanges to highlight political realities and assist in developing a campaign less vulnerable to disruption
What is patently obvious in all this is that any realistic attempt to deal with the social and political problems that underlie poor mental health in the community is feared. It threatens the very core of a selfish establishment that has no intention of improving the nations mental health if that also means sharing wealth. That is why this resistance to change is so terrified - even of material put out internationally by the World Health Organisation
What we are seeing demonstrated here is one tiny aspect of the ultra conservatism that has held Australia's natural progressiveness in check for so long, derailing all attempts to move forward since the time of Whitlam. This ultraconservatism has ruined the nations mental health and we are losing people because of it. Many have been brought up in years of despair and lack of proper mental illness services. That is why they cheered so loudly when Rudd started the process of moving forward again with his apology to the Aboriginal peoples and his move to combat climate change
But no-one with as long an experience of progressive politics as some of us have had, would expect that we could compassionately move forward together, work to build a better society and be effective in so doing without provoking an orchestrated reaction from a deeply entrenched status quo
The problems on a campaign such as "mental health" are but a symptom of that orchestrated reaction. Out of this I hope our organisation has learnt more about what progress is really about - about what obstructs it and the mechanisms of how it is done
If I were to add one warning in Australian progressive politics, it would be "remember Allende" and remember who was responsible for his removal and murder. Hopefully our democratic traditions are strong enough to resist this kind of attack but there are people who would not think twice of launching such an attack on the halls of a progressive democratic parliament supposing we ever actually have one
charles
August 30th, 2010
Getup have certainly picked up on him. As best I can tell they simply deleted ALL posts after a certain point in time, which appears to begin with his reply to my post further above.
Unfortunately trolls are very skilled at bringing out the worst emotions in people while appearing to be nothing more than polite posters. They join threads or organisations in order to disrupt them, in this case seeking to divert a thread. But as a sincere GetUp member I will continue to do all I can in getting blogs back on topic and make every effort to shine the light on those diverting them in a manner which provokes response.
DD
August 30th, 2010
Diverting a thread is exactly what you have been doing - diverting it away from the very structure and mechanism of GetUps progressive approach into an area better suited to the restricted agenda of a support chat group. Such support groups have their role just as GetUp has theirs as a front line and Grass Roots participatory democracy based organisation
I take your reaction as the clearest indication that we are very much on track and as I suggested earlier I would like to see GetUp relaunch this campaign or develop it using the international guidelines to approaching mental health set down by the World Health Organisation which would place the Professors views within their rightful context
I have little doubt that in formulating their guidelines the WHO went through a not dissimilar process of discussion and occasional attempts at derailment of their positive agenda. But they won through in the end as I trust GetUp will
Whilst we are chatting here others are working in their own way seeing through the years of broken promises and deceitful policies whose resultant sum has always been inaction. As the London Times once thundered in another context "It is a political matter"
WHO teaches us that a piecemeal approach cannot bring about lasting radical change in mental health. Mental illness per se is but a part of the problem - a small but integral part of it. To solve the minor matter one MUST address the major one.
International experts still themselves debate this matters - as they should - but I suggest OUR focus should be implementation of that which is already there in writing - the Holistic approach to mental health that is finally beginning to break through - that recognises that all aspects of people's needs, psychological, physical and social, and mentally should be taken into account and seen as a whole in approaching mental health and illness.
The Holistic view is not just about medical treatment - it takes the matter far further in the direction of individual causes and potential relieving strategies. Whilst one might have reservations about the restricted Holism that sometimes confuses physical illness with psychological processes, the ascendant broader view of Holism does not have these dangers
I commend the WHO material to GetUp as an intellectual and academic core to its own approach
World Health Organisation fact sheet 220 (09/07) Mental health: strengthening mental health promotion Media Centre
I think that GetUp have done a purge yes - but there's still plenty of his ramblings that need to be gone...
I very glad though that they took out his most recent one.
I note that there are people who come to this blog (particularly look back at older posts) looking to see what's happening - people who have lost loved one and who are currently suffering - many might be suffering in silence.
For the sake of these people it's a MUST that GetUp keep this blog free of all the stigma building stuff that's been going on.
Addressing mental health reform isn't the same as fighting for climate change, the right to vote or any of the other blogs - because mental health reform is about improving the quality of life and saving lives of people NOW and in the near and distant future.
If you can't fight for mental health reform without heart then it's not worth fighting for.
I will once again put up the link for the International Suicide Prevention Day for anyone who might want to get involved in some way - it's 10th September:
I shall linger here an attempt to keep making constructive progress on this campaign's objectives, and others if anyone else is willing to return to what appears to have become a deserted wasteland.
Maybe everyone really was a party man and I'm just someone's conservative mother-in-law. Maybe someone has driven everyone away with their own campaign of paranoid belief that they are the only real person here. Who knows. *sigh*
DD
August 31st, 2010
I find that GetUp blogs are mostly a place where a relatively few people exchange ideas and sometimes try to sort out theoretical conflict. Sometimes a blog thread may be quite active for a while as in the case of threads relating to the Middle East. Tibet, and Human Rights
But the real action is mostly elsewhere - as it should be - in the campaigns themselves. I would like to see more rigorous discussion - sorting out ideas, here too, but I am sure that will come
For the record I have deleted some outdated posts of mine to help tidy up the thread
Organisations such as GetUp go through many phases - some survive, some don't, in the long term - Some of the best, such as the Campaign For Nuclear Disarmament largely disappear as organisations, whilst there ideas become absorbed into other areas and organisations
I suspect most GetUp members never go anywhere near the blog threads. We all have different roles to play in progressive, participatory democratic politics
That is as it should be. The face of democratic politics is changing rapidly. The old decrepit localised commercial media is beginning to fall apart as many young people abandon it. The new democracy is one whose boundaries are electronic rather than geographical
Young people handle the existence of both truth and falsehood far better than previous generations did. They do not expect everything on the net to be true in the way that previous generations believed "because they saw it in print or on the TV - or heard it on the radio." It is noticeable even that the audience for talkback radio is largely the older generations
We are re-inventing democracy. Where once one supported parties we now have the tools to fight individual issues. Abbot especially belongs to an old school that is dying. He may well get to be PM but the corridors of democracy have moved on - and that is as it should be.
The reality is that an issue such as mental health is effectively already no longer a party political issue - however much parties my utilise the subject matter to manipulate and gain votes, the campaign is elsewhere - returning progressively to basics. I think the big political call in our society is precisely that - a demand we return to basics and reconstruct. Our political parties reform or they will simply be progressively ignored. If the continued manipulation of Parliaments(sic) by outside interests - including the financing of candidates and the manipulation of choices put to the electorate- then those Parliaments(sic) too will be ignored and the struggle for a better society will simply move on.
Many older people show signs of already not coping with the change in the political environment. I welcome it as the way of the future but I caution that when you go it alone you must always address the whole picture and not just a part - and you should always seek or create basic guidelines for all action. In most cases they are already there as in mental health (WHO documents) and Human Rights (United Nations documents) - in foreign medical aid (organisations such as the Red Cross/ Red Cresent and Medicins Sans Frontieres)
Getting back to basics means returning to, or adopting, what is often already there - but conveniently ignored by our corrupted politics. This thread was a poignant case in point
DD
August 30th, 2010
This gets stranger by the hour - One minute you say you are leaving because GetUp is too political the next you are trying to censor it. I can only repeat I have no complaints about censorship on GetUp so truly I don't know what you are on about here
What I am seeing here is some very skilled political operating - The inconsistency is what gives it away. I hope that the operators will eventually realise that all they are doing is providing a basis for the expression and development of progressive views.
Should you decide to delete some of your own posts i will be quite happy to remove what then may become unnecessary responses
As i mentioned on another thread a similar pattern of events occurred on George Monbiot's blog (the London Guardian journalist) - it is a form of snow job - It was from his article on this pattern that i first learnt the term "astroturfing"
Here again is a little of what he said in relation to disruption of the blogs if astroturfing is not already here on GetUp and (and I believe it is) - I have NO doubt it is heading our way masquerading as innocent citizens without a political bone in their bodies. (The left leg is the one with bells on it)
"They have two main modes of operating: paying people to masquerade as independent experts, and paying people to masquerade as members of the public. These fake "concerned citizens" claim to be worried about a conspiracy by governments and scientists to raise taxes and restrict their freedoms in the name of tackling a non-existent issue. This tactic is called astroturfing. It's a well-trodden technique, also deployed extensively by the tobacco industry. You pay a public relations company to create a fake grassroots (astroturf) movement, composed of people who are paid for their services. They lobby against government attempts to regulate the industry and seek to drown out and discredit people who draw attention to the issues the corporations want the public to ignore.
Considering the lengths to which these companies have gone to insert themselves into publications where there is a risk of exposure, it is inconceivable that they are not making use of the Guardian's threads, where they are protected by the posters' anonymity. Some of the commenters on these threads have been paid to disseminate their nonsense, but we have no means, under the current system, of knowing which ones they are."
charles
August 31st, 2010
DD - August 15th, 2010 - But we are talking about patterns of conscious understanding here. If the filter is wrong then so is the outcome of a thought process, and for many faith based people the outcome of the thinking process is just plain wrong, because their theological position is one of unquestioned faith and superstition..
These too are forms of mental delusion - Can the deluded really help the deluded? - Can they really come up with the answers as to what is wrong with the nation's mental health or truly understand an individual? - The answer is no because they are part of the problem and not so much part of the solution, and that what prevents them seeing that reality is a combination of unquestioned faith and religious arrogance.
This faulty outcome they then apply to the people they associate with. Is it so wrong then to say to these people I think it is time you looked at the intellectual, philosophical , ideological and theological basis of the thinking you use to help others? And is it so wrong to ask Government and the medical profession not to lean so heavily on those who so desperately need psychic healing themselves?
GetUp commenters: Don't let anyone make you believe that you are delusional and not able to contribute to this discussion or to Mental Healthcare services because of your faith.
DD - August 15th, 2010 - Hitler promised to be able to provide every family a Volkswagen car - way back in the late thirties - In fact he started a fund deducting five marks a week from wages to pay for it
They got tanks - a war, a holocaust - and death on an appalling scale which totalled well over sixty million
In Russia alone 70thousand villages were destroyed
Don't look at "election promises" or "policies"
Look rather at what the main characters are doing now and in Abbott's case - taking Climate change as an example - it is denial and lying to promote his political career and it is also about attacking the weakest - Sanctuary seekers - in order to get the redneck vote
Enough said.
GetUp commenters: Don't let anyone make you believe that you are a Nazi supporter and not able to contribute to this discussion or to Mental Healthcare services because you support a political party or their policy.
If you would like for GetUp to campaign on other issues or ask them to alter an existing campaign then Getup "welcome the ideas and suggestions of GetUp members to help shape [their] actions on important national issues. [they] receive a large volume of emails, so to help [them] consider your suggestion, please write to campaigns@getup.org.au and tell us briefly:
- In one or two lines, what is your campaign about (what problem are you seeking to address)?
- What is the desired political outcome (what, specifically, are you trying to achieve)?
- Who has the power to make change happen, or at least influence the political result (should we be targeting dissenting MPs, the media, the Prime Minister)?
- What's the campaign's message (i.e. Fund our ABC, or No child belongs in detention)?
- What should the campaign ask GetUp members to do (sign a petition, call talkback radio, attend a rally, email their Federal MP)?
- Is there a target audience for this campaign (university students, mums and dads, Australians affected by drought)?
- What is the timing of this issue (why should we run a campaign about this now, or later)?"
DD
August 31st, 2010
Momentary response digression - Once again Charles you have distorted what I said in relation to the theological revolution that is taking place. In fact I went out of my way to point out to the fact that theology has in fact moved on way beyond the point at which it is set in many faith based support networks. What you have deliberately left out is passages such as this in my posts:
"Religious Conservatism - largely with the patronage of the extreme rich and powerful, dominates much of the body politic and of our social structures and mores. Where it is involved in mental health support, it is the Conservative religious tradition that predominates - through groups such as AA. An Archaic Theism survives unreformed and it can make illness worse and recovery and coping more difficult for many people"
Since the time of Bonhoeffer modern Christian theology has moved way beyond the kind of thought structures that people such as Bill Wilson of AA fame referred to in his claims that Alcoholism reflected spiritual breakdown and that the route out of Alcoholism was to return to your knees and pray. In fact outside of America - whose Protestantism seems particularly stuck in a time warp - most a AA has in fact moved on but still pays lip service to a Fundamentalist and traditionalist, literalist and ritualistic, academically succeeded theistic religious tradition
Therefore it is indeed relevant to say that it is wrong to deny the possibility of recovery to those who do not share Theistic belief in a Higher Power - which is why the core of Government initiated recovery should be secular and religiously neutral. For Government to leave "recovery and support" to purely faith based organisations is both negligent and cruel.
Let me give you another example - some years ago, in the eighties in fact- one of the then modern detoxification centres came under the auspices of an eighty five year old medically unqualified nun. She would have received her basic training under a superior trained as far back as 1880 - or even earlier - so slow does the Catholic Church move. I do not think that that is appropriate conceptual training for running a centre that was involved not only in detoxification but also in recovery referral
I would actually like to see the lay members of the Churches (let alone the clergy) become fully involved in support of the sick - as their religions generally demand - but frankly I would also like to see them adopt their responsibility to become involved in the modern theological debate and in the call for a less sexist and more democratic Christianity
I look forward to the election by women Cardinals of a woman pope and I would be even happier if she were gay. As for women priests , bishops and archbishops, in such as the Anglican Commune - dominated in Australia by some of the Communes most reactionary dioceses - all I can say is Hallelujah!
Anyway thanks for providing a starting point for discussion of this topic - This is however but a response and I have no wish to divert the thread in this direction - as I said a couple of weeks back. Instead of your somewhat obsessive attacks on me why don't you talk about mental health per se. You could use the WHO guidelines as your focus perhaps.
Incidentally I am not aware that attachments such as videos or pictures are permitted on these blogs. Yours was a lovely example of how the channel Ten scripts distort the truth within the context of what is supposed to be an interview - but that is the Murdoch and Fox media for you
charles
August 31st, 2010
Another interview with Prof Patrick McGorry on the ALP's policy. I cannot yet find recorded comments from him regarding the Coalition's policy but will keep searching:
Use of sound bites in the manner you are using them Charles I find grossly dishonest in that they totally avoid the context that gives them their true meaning. The matter has been addressed by WIKI in the following manner:
"As the context of what is being said is missing, the insertion of sound bites into news broadcasts or documentaries is open to manipulation and thus requires a very high degree of journalistic ethics. According to the Code of Ethics of the Society of Professional Journalists, journalists should "make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context."
I consider you are in breach of those standards.
I find it particular unacceptable that you use an edited bite of a GETUP person in the manner that you do Charles
I call for a ruling as to the insertion of edited sound bites as attachments to posts and an investigation as to how this has technically occurred. These are the first such attachments i have seen on GetUp blogs and would be unacceptable on most organisations blogs
DD
August 31st, 2010
Here is an example of appropriate involvement by a faith based organisation in matters of mental and physical health, Charles. Referring to the abuse of poker machines to exploit families in which there are problem gamblers (itself a mental health issue!) The national director of Uniting Care Australia, Susan Helyar, says it is a sad day when the argument for not dealing with problem gambling is that the nation's tax system is dependent on gambling as a revenue gathering measure.
"The evidence that I've seen is around $18 billion a year is spent on gambling," she said.
"Now some of that will come back into the tax system and some of it comes out as community support funds, but $18 billion is an enormous amount of money to be spent on something that causes such enormous damage and heartbreak in the community.
"The kind of problems that come out of gambling are relationship breakdown, bankruptcy, people not being able to work, people losing their jobs, depression, crime, suicide. It's a profoundly problematic impact in our community."
During this negotiating period it is particular good to see independents responding by sticking to their basic principles relating to caring for the vulnerable - I note a report on the independent MP Mr Wilkie that says that gambling reform is one of his key concerns. Good on him!
Over to Mr Wilkie himself "Something like $96 million lost just on poker machines, just in Tasmania in the last five months," he said. "That is an unacceptable amount of money lost, often by people who can least afford it. And it's the responsibility of government to look after the most vulnerable people"
Mr Wilkie seeks stricter control on poker machines and a limitation on bets. Uncontrolled gambling is a means of exploiting the vulnerable and indeed people who are in fact under stress and often in poor mental health. The deprivation problem gambling causes is a key cause of poor mental health. Poverty - as the WHO points out - is a key issue.
Government dependence of poker machine revenues has at the same time changed the nature of our clubs. Where once Government might support clubs - even with tax breaks - they now force them to operate as de facto casinos in order to survive. What has occurred is another resultant contributory factor to social and mental health breakdown
charles
August 31st, 2010
Found this commentry by Getup's Sam McLean on the SBS Insight program regarding Mental Healthcare.
Use of sound bites in the manner you are using them Charles I find grossly dishonest in that they totally avoid the context that gives them their true meaning. The matter has been addressed by WIKI in the following manner:
"As the context of what is being said is missing, the insertion of sound bites into news broadcasts or documentaries is open to manipulation and thus requires a very high degree of journalistic ethics. According to the Code of Ethics of the Society of Professional Journalists, journalists should "make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context."
I consider you are in breach of those standards.
I find it particular unacceptable that you use an edited bite of a GETUP person in the manner that you do Charles
I call for a ruling as to the insertion of edited sound bites as attachments to posts and an investigation as to how this has technically occurred. These are the first such attachments i have seen on GetUp blogs and would be unacceptable on most organisations blogs
charles
September 1st, 2010
I have reported a potential security vulnerability to GetUp.
As for how this has "technically occurred", its standard commentry editing as I've done in other posts and, in this case, simply a copy paste of the embedding code that you can find on any youtube video, provided by youtube themselves in an easy button. Its not hacking or anything, just using allowed functionality of the commentry system.
However, as before, I have made a report to Getup on how some of this could be used in a malicious way. Its possible that the Getup commentry system already blocks malicious or dangerous code, however I haven't tested this and most certainly don't intend to test it. The report is with them.
On breaching the standards. I consider I'm not in breach of them as they are WIKI standards, not Getup standards. Furthermore I have linked an entire news report from Ten, not a portion of it, and I found Sam McLean's message was relevant to the topic at hand and don't see how he has been taken out of context.
charles
September 1st, 2010
*LOL* The embedding is not rocket science or secret knowledge. Nor are the editing functions some kind of secret binary code but rather they are standards known by many with little or no IT knowledge. I have "exploited" nothing but merely used permissible formatting and functionality that is available in MANY other website commenting systems. Please don't continue to share your lack of knowledge in IT by presuming that this is hacking. Again, I have made a report to GetUp to investigate if it is possible to put malicious code in. It's quite likely that their commenting system does block it and only allows the formatting and embedding of media, etc (as many of them do).
I'm also not a supporter of Tony Abbott or any political party, only the issues and the causes, although in this campaign Getup and the experts are generally applauding the Coalition's moves while you have taken it upon yourself to do everything possible to destroy the campaign and direct it in such a way as to suggest the opposite. If you were truly keen on attacking the coalition you'd be better suited to attack them over climate change (where you would find me in strong agreement) instead of trying your hardest to divert and destroy this campaign and not join it in fighting for a similar committment from the government. But alas, you are against this most noblest of causes and committed to being destructive. *sigh*
Far above anyone, you have attacked any and all commenters who have expressed positive responses to any coalition policy and comenters who have scorned government policy. In every way, you have shown youself to be the worst example of an encouraging society with constructive discussion in your vendetta against a party you have compared to the Nazi with your own propoganda that has broken Godwin's law (a kitten died that day).
Enough of the accusations that we are all right-wing astroturfers, enlisted by your mother-in-law. Take the appropriate measures that I have posted above in a previous post to request additional campaigns or alterations to existing ones rather than continue to push your own agenda to destroy this campaign's objectives by "trolling" all commenters here and spamming requests to Getup in the blogs. Much like I have appropriately reported potential issues to them via their e-mail/messaging system.
Alas, I suspect you do not have constructive intentions for this campaign, but I remain vaguely hopeful. Who knows. Maybe every post since the last deletion will be cleared again. I support that if thats what it takes for you to see how inappropriate your behaviour here is to any constructive process and to learn how to appropriately make requests and notes to Getup as I have done. *sigh*
DD
September 1st, 2010
"Hacking" is your term - not mine here. As you make abundantly clear here you know precisely what you are doing and the fact that you only THEN AFTERWARDS report the problem speaks volumes
It was a fair cop mate - You did it yourself with no aid from me.
As for your favoured party, It has shown itself as undemocratic since it drafted kids to fight in Asia and launched what was effectively a coup against the democratically elected Whitlam Government. Then and in the Howard years it has done quite enough damage. It even wrecked the opportunity to tackle climate change by first creating the appearance of a consensus under Turnbull as leader, and then by "sabotaging" that consensus with a Deniers funded internal Right Wing Palace Revolution - the one that gave us Abbott. Methinks it speaks with forked tongue!.
The truth be known it was always an externally orchestrated tactical behaviour pattern supported by a party that has NO concept of democracy and none of the needs of vulnerable people. The inegalitarian nature of Australian society - the social divisions - are predominantly the fault of ruthless Right Wing coalition that crosses the boundaries between Parliament, corporations, privileged groups and the largely monopolised commercial media in a manner even Mussolini might have taken his hat off to.
Some of us have long memories. You might also like to view even Fraser's views on the present Liberal Party and Coalition
But unlike you I won't "embed" them on Getup
Mate the best thing you can do when you have been sprung is go quietly. The next coup attempt is likely to fail - people have wised up since the Whitlam years.
I'm sure GetUp can delete all this when they sort out the problem you have posed
In the meantime "Hasta La Vista, Baby"
Regards DD
"He sees et arl so plainly as he saw et long ago. Capten art tha sleeping there below?" Drakes Drum (Newbolt)
charles
September 1st, 2010
*LOL*
That is all
P.S. I voted Greens *shrug*
DD
September 1st, 2010
Then try supporting their social programs instead of attempting to sabotage those of us who attempt to actually practically realise many of their dreams - on an issue by issue basis. Don't throw deceptively dishonest sound bites at us either - that is not fair discussion
I don't agree with all ALP policy and I do not agree with all Greens policy - but I have no delusion that as far as the Coalition is concerned, a party that during its years as the Opposition - since the people threw the Howard regime on the scrap heap of history - has behaved as if it deluded itself that it was the "Rightful Government in Exile" does not have either the interests of either Parliamentary democracy or the simpler interests of all our citizens - especially the deprived and vulnerable - in its heart. Try seeing through the internal Palace Revolution that Abbott "led" and you might just see that there is in fact a consistent agenda - a consistent clique.
If there is one thing I value in the present moment, it is that the vote of the people has brought this entire mess out into the open. They can see it more clearly now - the lies , the manipulations - the phoney promises from all sides It is especially obvious in the campaign to improve the nations mental health - The price of following International Guidelines is simply too high - so they play around with diagnoses such as "depression" and pretend that a few bucks thrown in that direction will fix the problems - well it won't. Isolated it will do nothing - The broad picture is what we need to address! That is how we can really help depressed people and stop the suicides
The electorate can now see who is orchestrating it all.... It will take a great deal of determination and courage to get Australian democracy back on its feet. The alternative however is far worse, for we will watch the mental health and social fabric of this nation becoming deliberately eroded or callously allowed to collapse even further. Why not call a Constituent Assembly NOW. Its time!
There is much hope now that even the sleeping Trade Union movement is waking up, and quite rightly demanding "what the hell has been going on?" and finally - through the courage of the Independents - rightful questions about political funding of candidates and parties are being asked - for true corrupt practices lead in the direction of candidates of BOTH major parties, and at state as well as federal level just look at NSW!
Once again what we need to sweep this nonsense aside is perhaps to maintain the present caretaker situation and call for the founding of a Constituent Assembly to reform our Constitution and our Parliamentary and State Structures.
The Coup that dominated politics since the Whitlam Dismissal has finally run its course - we are back where we were - where we should be - at the very point where the sheer idiocy of our social situation - including the increasing mental and social and economic decline of the vulnerable - the deaths of depressed and despairing people - all demand REFORM
It is now over a hundred years since Federation - the old bus is losing its wheels and conking out Time for a new one. Gough got it right!
charles
September 1st, 2010
Once again, I fully support constructive discussion of social/political issues and reform IN THE APPROPRIATE THREAD. I even initiated the discussion for you, but instead you have continued to SPAM this thread with the discussion to divert the campaign instead of seeking real progress on what is an important issue. I weep for how you have wielded the social reform discussion as a weapon against this noblest of causes. *sigh*
Happy to discuss it there if you would only join me.
DD
September 1st, 2010
You are just trying to send us round and round in circles Charles in order I feel to try and limit this discussion to one in which a deceitful Coalition populism is unanalysed in terms of its true (negligible) social effect and its true (negligible) likely effect on the prevalence of mental illness and of mental ill health in our society
Nothing will change until political parties and their cohorts stop blaming the victim - universally blaming illness is blaming the victim - It is no better than the old Stalinist habit of putting political dissenters in mental asylums
No I do not accept your limited agenda - I accept the wide agenda of the World Health Organisation and expertise of similar standing.. In fact if their guidelines had been accepted years ago in Australia I don't think we would be in the current mess - and to a degree I include the current political dilemma
I an stunned at your suggestion that the social reform discussion is "a weapon against the noblest of causes" - what utter bosh! - it is the very core of the matter
Social reform demands that we examine what present social and class structures are doing to our society in terms of the well being and happiness of the people. You like to treat all this as if it were some left wing agenda - well it is no more left wing than that document drafted by the great Thomas Jefferson known as the Declaration of Independence
"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Can you honestly say that in modern Australia "all men are created equal" or that their inalienable rights are properly protected. Are they truly happy - in a nation where depression and despair are so prevalent.
Why not join me in a call for a Constituent Assembly - a real one, not the John Howard fraud - to allow a new generation to construct an administrative and social structure that better fits their needs and desires. Is it so bad for organic human life to want that right to decide as those other escapees from the British Empire - the American people - once did?
Why should we be dominated by rules unaltered since several generations before we were born as the old joke goes - "How come they made all the rules before I got here" - How come we are still dominated by the structures the British Empire left behind? Whose country and society is it?
This has been a robust discussions but I would like to terminate it and see it able to be deleted for the most part so we can move on. But that would require you to stop demanding that we limit ourselves to your ideologically restricted agenda and you stop throwing party political spin at us
Truly I have better things to do.
charles
September 1st, 2010
Do you not mean GetUp's "limited" agenda to see Mental healcare reform?
charles
September 1st, 2010
What is GetUp calling for? On the recommendations from Prof McGorry and other mental health experts, GetUp are asking for $500 millions in new funding for mental health services including youth suicide prevention: 90 Youth mental health ‘headspace’ centres across Australia = $100m 10 early psychosis intervention centres across Australia = $100m 24-hour suicide prevention and psychosis teams = $50m Support for mental health patients to recover outside of hospitals (sub-acute care) = $100m A national mental health education campaign similar to that on road safety = $50m Other measures including housing and social support services and training for counsellors = $145m TOTAL REQUIRED IN 2011 = $545m
DD
September 1st, 2010
Here is where you keep going wrong Charles - and it has been pointed out so many times that it has to be deliberate
You are trying to limit the GetUp agenda
So Let's actually read what is in the article at the top of the page that defines the parameters
QUOTE GETUP 'As Prof. McGorry said today, "we've gone from a toe in the water to a foot - but we still need to jump in." Here's some of what we still need to achieve:'
NOW do you get it - the operative word is "SOME".
Even Professor McGorry himself says "we still need to jump in" comparing the present success to going from a toe in the water to a foot in the water He too reognises there is a vast way to go
All GetUp activities and campaigns take place in an environment of progressive democratic politics. The dedication to matters such as Human Rights, economic fairness and renewal, social fairness towards aboriginal peoples and towards refugees, equal pay for women , maternity leave, equality before the law, protection of our rivers and of the environment - all these are matters fully understood and part of our conscious approach to all issues
GetUp in its campaigns, its blogs, and its open discussions with Government, Opposition, Greens, and Independents, demonstrates on a daily basis its commitment to a Holistic view of society. That is why when it campaigns on an issue such as "Mental Health" it can be so powerful
Politicians know we are not fooled by attempts to narrow our focus and limit our agenda - They know that when they try to offer false promises - cash stolen from one budgetary area to feed another (conning people out of their voting power on the way) - they know at least ONE of us will spot them and give them hell - and there are nearly four hundred thousand of us out here. I am only ONE - but in blogs - I admit a noisy one
I am in my sixties. I have seen political lies and false promises in three countries - My own brother is an American citizen who worked on election campaigns over there too. My parents were themselves in their twenties as Fascism rose on false promises - They listened to people such as Sir Oswald Moseley as he addressed people in the markets of London, promising the moon but delivering the threat of horror
Limited agendas are dangerous - they achieve nothing positiv, and create a false focus that is easily propagandised and diverted into different directions. As I explained before one sees this fault in support groups who adopt only a chosen selection of international guidelines. The truth is that if you do not take all then you end up with nothing. That is how it works
That is what I believe in GetUp a new generation is trying to stop - They are demanding problems be FULLY addressed and fully solved.
I never expected to live even this long - I was quite ill when I was younger - I never expected to see my contemporaries entering the stage that we used to call the old fogies. I It is a matter of sadness to me that when I say these days "For Heaven sake get out of the damn way grandpa so we can sort things out - that I am talking to my own contemporaries - the people I once sat next to in school"
I am not going to lie to the new generation as I was once lied to - I am not going to tell them "tackle the little problems and the big ones will sort themselves out" - Because I know they didn't - and I am not going to say narrow your focus and have a limited agenda because I know that it is fatal. They may limit their agenda but the forces against them will widen theirs and politically smash them and all their hopes
I think you are betraying these new progressive people Charles _ and i'd like you to think again - but funnily enough more for your sake than theirs. For in truth they are already getting out ahead of us And as I once said to a little bird that I reared and loved as it flew away from me "fly - fly with all your might - fly and be free and help others - all others to do the same."
charles
September 1st, 2010
I look forward to discussing the broader agenda with you in the appropriate thread together with anyone else who wishes to discuss such things. As before, I think social/political reform/discussion is a very important topic and should potentially sit as a sort of parent topic to the moe focused campaign blogs and even spawn more.
Feel free to test me on my willingness to discuss the broader issues by posting in the appropriate blogs, you might be pleasently surprised at the progress we could make. Over to you.
DD
September 1st, 2010
The broader agenda viewed through the filter of mental health international guidelines belongs here more than on any other thread Charles
The structure of our society is depriving people in the millions of reasonable sustainable prosperity, dignity, self esteem, equality of opportunity or even genuine market forces. It is a society of cliques classes and cartels. Whilst one group live in harbourside mansions another lives on the streets. Whilst one group lives in highly protected low density suburbs such as Vaucluse in Sydney - others live in suburbs where developers are given free reign to rape the urban environment. This social chasm is the cause of a mountain of mental ill health and of the triggering of predisposed illness.
Social stress triggers mental illness - the evidence for that assertion is overwhelming - often it is not the long term "depression" that causes a suicide - it is the final stress trigger - the worsening of a situation that is the straw that breaks the camels back. We need to remove those triggers by creating a far greater safety net of social comfort for all and with less class determined selfishness it can easily be done. There is enough for all, but there is not excess for the satisfying of greed.
Whilst one group on the land is allowed to destroy the forests and the sustaining features of the landscape sometimes to grow inedible exports, others are sinking into depression because there is no water for their food crops - crops that supply our food markets.
I can see a holistic view of society and of the environment and the economy comes as a bit of a shock to you. Maybe Charles - if you are genuine- you should step back for a while and re-assess the worldview that has dominated your life
I remember a time when I thought the environment was self sustaining- that climate change simply could not be the result of human activity, that market forces somehow could do the job and even that mental health was a question of either being sick through disease or not sick through disease.
But just as there was once a time when my father's fundamentalist religion seemed to have a core of truth, and then one day I saw through it - so I wised up on these other issues, long ago
Over the next few days I hope that final lasting changes will be made in how politics are conducted in Australia - A Green Labour(sic) Coalition at Federal level should lead to a Greening of Labour(sic) politics at state and local level. If the Abbott Right Wing "Government in Exile" choose to smash such an opportunity for reforming Government, they may well only make an inevitable process happen more quickly -
For with a hostile Senate as of July next year, a Howard/Abbott regime has nothing to offer but instability, and instability this time may well wipe the middle class - for there are no funds now to again support an economic collapse brought on by instability in an internationally collapsing world economy. If there is a "double dip" looming then dropping the pilot would be consumate madness. Rudd rescued what Abbott - through political ambition - could all too easily destroy. Charity for the middle class has run out. Finally they are close to feeling what ordinary people have felt - sometimes for generations - when the welfare runs dry or is insufficient.
The first sign, if that happens, will be an increase in mental illness - the same phenomena the poor have suffered for so long. A Green Labor(sic) Government may well stick in some throats
But do even the rich really want to face the likely alternative scenario - a possible middle class collapse.
DD
September 2nd, 2010
And now an 11 billion dollar hole in the Abbott costings estimates. His promises are empty.
Maybe we should use the term he coined to express his attitude to Climate Change Science - He said it was "crap"
Well it looks like his promises and proposals are also (to use his words) "crap"
And I think we all know which black hole mental health services promises would go down.
And these people would form a GOVERNMENT!
No more days like those! What nonsense - Abbott paid a group of private estimators to give him the answer he wanted to fool the people and then broadcast the result he paid for as "truth"
He must think we are really stupid! Well done Treasury for catching him out
charles
September 2nd, 2010
For those interested, this is the blog for the campaign to ensure we fight for real mental healthcare improvement
What is GetUp calling for? On the recommendations from Prof McGorry and other mental health experts, GetUp are asking for $500 millions in new funding for mental health services including youth suicide prevention: 90 Youth mental health ‘headspace’ centres across Australia = $100m 10 early psychosis intervention centres across Australia = $100m 24-hour suicide prevention and psychosis teams = $50m Support for mental health patients to recover outside of hospitals (sub-acute care) = $100m A national mental health education campaign similar to that on road safety = $50m Other measures including housing and social support services and training for counsellors = $145m TOTAL REQUIRED IN 2011 = $545m
What can you do? "The Coalition have stepped up on Mental Heath and pledged $1.5 billion towards improving services around the country." Getup are encouraging you to "ask the government to take this pledge further and invest more in mental health care to save lives." You can find various contact details for the ALP/Government HERE. E-mail them and send them the message that they need to step up really commit to mental healthcare.
If you would like for GetUp to campaign on other issues or ask them to alter an existing campaign then Getup "welcome the ideas and suggestions of GetUp members to help shape [their] actions on important national issues. [they] receive a large volume of emails, so to help [them] consider your suggestion, please write to campaigns@getup.org.au and tell [them] briefly:
- In one or two lines, what is your campaign about (what problem are you seeking to address)?
- What is the desired political outcome (what, specifically, are you trying to achieve)?
- Who has the power to make change happen, or at least influence the political result (should we be targeting dissenting MPs, the media, the Prime Minister)?
- What's the campaign's message (i.e. Fund our ABC, or No child belongs in detention)?
- What should the campaign ask GetUp members to do (sign a petition, call talkback radio, attend a rally, email their Federal MP)?
- Is there a target audience for this campaign (university students, mums and dads, Australians affected by drought)?
- What is the timing of this issue (why should we run a campaign about this now, or later)?"
Here is no less than the ABC commenting on line this morning (Thursday)
"The Treasury document shows the Coalition has costings problems with its plans for health, education, infrastructure and its paid parental leave scheme.
The difference in figures also comes down to the Coalition making significant spending promises without saying which projects would be slashed to pay for those promises."
Precisely what I have been telling you. Your beloved Coalition has no money to fund mental health promises or parental leave promises etc - it has to steal the funds from other areas. The promises are empty. Howard/Abbott speaks with forked tongue
Which makes it even MORE important that we do not lose sight of the fact that cuts in welfare, income support, housing budgets, infrastructure etc are ALL relevant to mental health
Try taking the HOLISTIC view of politics Charles - It'll get you there. Your attempt to compartmentalise in order to assist Abbott's flagging campaign to fool the Australian people has been blown apart by the Treasury costings estimates
It is indeed all inter-related - And i have no doubt there is more to come
Proven record versus black hole?
charles
September 2nd, 2010
More than happy to take a holistic view in the appropriate threads DD. But on this I will ammuse you.
Here's some other portions of the ABC (no less) report that you obviously didn't want to share.
"Before the election the Coalition said its promises would add about $11.5 billion to the budget bottom line over the next four years.
Treasury analysis given to Tony Windsor and his fellow independents Rob Oakeshott and Bob Katter shows the Coalition's promises would only add between $860 million and $4.5 billion to the bottom line.
Labor said its promises would improve the Budget bottom line by about $44 million over four years, but Treasury says it is actually more than that - about $106 million."
So we have an estimated budget bottom line of $11b brought down to BETWEEN $4.5b and $0.8b while Labor's $0.044b has been brought up to $0.106b. For those who wish to read the entire article, you can find it HERE. Really DD. Now we see who the party man is, who's truly doing the astroturfing and who's really picking out the bits and bobs from news reports to put situations out of context. I guess I expected no less *sigh*
As before people, this is the blog for the campaign to ensure we fight for real mental healthcare improvement. Getup actually welcomes people from all political backgrounds and parties to participate constructively without fear of hostility from others for their beliefs and values. Of course it can't guarantee that some people who advocate for a compassionate society won't actually attack you at every turn. Such trolls of the internet can only be ignored as they seek to disrupt constructive discussion in the appropriate threads. *sigh*
DD
September 2nd, 2010
Glad you know what the blog thread is for C. Does that mean that you might use it for that instead of for personal attacks on me and for inappropriately embedding data - which I note you just did again
You seem determined to drag everything down to a personal level instead of discussing at a theoretical level. I am more than happy to get back to that when you stop trying to control and limit agendas - against international medical guidelines no less! - I'm only responding here. You stop the response stops.
Personal attack as you make it is one of the oldest tricks of political party operators - especially on the Right Wing of politics. Surely your barrel organ can play SOME other tune than Coalition anthems Charles - give the monkey a break!
The bottom line is that Abbott's proposed "Government" has very little likely stability in the House of Reps and strong opposition - especially after July - in the Senate, where Labor and the Greens will hold sway
The Coalition can hardly claim that a hostile Senate does not have the Right to withdraw "supply" when that is precisely what THEY did to bring down the Whitlam Government
Thus they now reap the harvest of what they themselves have sown. Howard/Abbot can only offer precisely the situation in their proposed Government that they decried as non-valid all those years ago - and which situation, with the assistance of a High Court judge and the Governor General, they brought down themselves
Added to this self-defined instability, is the reality that the Howard/Abbott "Government" proposal is one made in an atmosphere where, EVEN at a time of economic "delicacy" and potential instability, Abbott is ALREADY in dispute with Treasury - aided and abetted in this hostility by his proposed "Treasurer" - will he ever learn to button-it?
This is no time to drop the existing Government team that has piloted Australia through recession. What I would say to the middle class especially, is that it is YOUR share portfolios and your superannuation valuations that are at risk. If Abbott stuffs the economy up by now regarding Treasury as "crap" in the same way that he regarded Climate Change Science as "crap" you stand to lose even more in a resulting economic turmoil that Howard/Abbott is not equipped to handle. Who DOES this nincompoop listen to - apart from Cardinal Pell?
In the meantime the rest of us under a Howard/Abbott regime can kiss any realistic mental health reform goodbye - when it comes to desperately propping up the rich OR helping the mentally ill - I am quite sure we know what the Coalition is likely to choose. They have to fill the Black Hole with something and so long as there are vulnerable people to throw into it they are the ones that will suffer - the sick - the unemployed , the underpaid, the mentally ill, those seeking educational and training opportunities, refugees , indigenous people
Lets hope he at least leaves Protestants alone in this medieval catholic morality driven nonsense***. If Turnbull were still leader of the Coalition we might have a very different scenario. Turnbull knew how to work with people and was succeeding in civilising the barbarians of the Liberal Party - it took but one vote to send them back into darkness
*LOL* your so funny when you're campaigning for your party.
Alas, you have dragged this thread down even further DD. After failed attempts to direct it to social reform you have reverted it to the mud slinging you so love and left the campaign for mental healthcare reform and funding hanging.
If only you could set the example for the enlightened, compassionate society you preach, but alas, an internet troll is incapable of such things. It can only troll threads and destroy them by diverting the discussion at hand and attacking all who dare to speak on topic. And making personal attacks is all you have been capable of to anyone indeed. *sigh*
You already know that I predict the independents to go with Labor. Unfortunately you seem to think there is still a political campaign going when the real decision lies with three independents (potentially two of them now that Wilkie's sided with Labor). I'm sure you will holler and yell and think you are throwing it in my face as you throw mud, yet I will not care for I will continue to strive for the campaign objectives that this blog is fighting for and push for Labor to address Mental healthcare reform. You, of course, will be sipping champaign with your Labor party co-workers and giggling at the stories of Australian families crushed by suicide and a lack of mental helthcare facilities to address the chrisis.
To repeat your words. DD, "Mate, the election is over. I think the result demonstrates that it is time to get back to the individual issues themselves - and that is what GetUp is here for."
This Blog is addressing the individual issue of funding and reform to the mental healthcare system. You are still campaigning - mate ;)
DD
September 2nd, 2010
The truth be known mate the apparent inability - whether real or feigned - to grasp social, human rights, and economic connections in the field of mental health leaves me (benevonently) thinking you just can't be that bright
I mean when it is spelled out by the World Health Organisation and research paper after research paper - and you STILL attack me for maintaining the position of such documents and organisations... etc
I am delighted to see that Mr Wilkie has secure some guarantees on control of poker machines which i see as particularly damaging to mental health. Indeed as a director of a club I even advocated their removal from that club - in most clubs they are considerably less vital than we are led to believe
I would strongly suggest campaigners look closely at such features on Australian poker machines as "near miss programming" which is even banned in Las Vegas
For those who don't know, Poker machines are in fact based on a random number chip which decides the payout before the "reels" appear to "move" - In fact what poker machines do is create a scheinwelt based on that payout calculation - you are in fact watching a rental TV programme and not any real process of reels turning - the near misses are programmed in to encourage gambling. There is NO such thing as a near miss on a poker machine!
Had you put in a different bet the programme played would have been different
Much of the addiction is in the musical soundtrack - listen closely to it. It often induces the reverse emotion to what is actually happening.
April 21st, 2010
One place in prison in South Australia costs $82000 per year. Prison is no place for those with mental health problems. The government should fund early treatment for youth mental health prgrams properly and stop building more lock-ups and dentention centres which cause mental health problems.