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Save our Senate


Posted on the campaign blog , October 27th, 2007
In August 2005, the Coalition took control of the Senate, giving one party a majority in both houses of Parliament for the first time since 1981.

At the time, John Howard promised to use his Senate majority 'wisely, soberly, and sensibly'. But in the last two years, the Senate has become nothing but a rubber stamp for the Government -- over the past two years, our Senate has passed 100% of Government-sponsored amendments, while rejecting over 98% of amendments proposed by other parties.**

After this election, things could get even worse. If the Liberals win Government in the lower house and retain their Senate majority, they may see that as a mandate from the Australian people to use their dual majorities with even less restraint. On the other hand, if Labor wins Government in the lower house but the Coalition retains its Senate majority, it will have absolute veto power over any and all legislation the Labor Government wants to pass or amend - from IR to climate change to indigenous health.

GetUp's roots are closely intertwined with the Coalition's majority takeover of the Senate. We were founded and launched that same month - in August 2005 - by a small group of Australians concerned about holding the Government accountable for how they used their otherwise unbridled control of the Senate. GetUp's first campaign ever was an ad telling the Government that, even though other parties could no longer hold them accountable in the Senate, we would be watching.

Over the past two years, GetUp members have fought together for the Senate to fulfill its rightful role as watchdog over the Government on issues such as refugees' rights, industrial relations, and, most recently, the Northern Territory legislation that was just rammed through.

For the past two years, we’ve tried appealing to reason, we’ve tried pleading restraint. But the truth is that this Senate is not working. We need a new Senate, one that can put the brakes on bad laws -- and we need your help.

Luckily, in an election year, we have one additional tool in our toolbox to combat abuse of power: democracy. There are 40 Senators up for re-election this year -- 6 in every state and 2 in each territory. The Coalition currently holds 20 of these seats. All it will take for them to lose majority control of the Senate is for progressives to gain back one of those 20 seats. That's could mean as little as 11,000 voters changing their mind in the ACT, or a swing of just 3% in Victoria or 5% in South Australia, for the Government to lose their absolute power.

So please - help us with our non-partisan campaign for a balanced, independent Senate. We need your help to...

1. Put our unprecedented multi-party ad calling for a balanced Senate on the air in the states where the balance of power in the Senate will be decided. Can you donate $100, $50, or even just $25? What's an independent Senate worth to you?

2. Run our intensive grassroots campaign to make sure every voter knows about the Coalition's track record. We are letterboxing, holding market stalls, adopting booths for election day, and more! If you live in one of the marginal Senate states below, click below to learn more about how you can help with your local GetUp Senate campaign:
  1. ACT

  2. South Australia

Or, if you live elsewhere, send an email to national@getup.org.au asking for more information about the Senate campaign and including your name, state, and telephone number.

And remember, all it will take to change the country is one Senate seat.

*Sourced from http://www.democrats.org.au/campaigns/senate_watch/

151 comments

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Steven Jones
October 27th, 2007

This campaign is truly essential doing. Only GetUp could get this going. I cant abide this brutalised senate. Anyone remember the amendments to the NT Land Rights Act - what a joke. Passed in a day, consequences for 99 years. It must come to an end.

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Aden Coffman
October 27th, 2007

Wow, this is fantastic. If only everyone else in the country realised how important the Senate is. The difference of one or two Senate seats next year will be the difference between taking real climate action and doing absolutely nothing.

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Brownie
October 28th, 2007

Just seen the 3 party ad on Insiders- its fantastic! Everyone needs to vote strategically for the senate to maintain the checks & balances built into our bicameral system or else vote to save some money & get rid of it all together

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Disabledwriter
October 28th, 2007

I'm only partially employed and have a disability that not only limits my ability to work but increases the costs I have to pay to live independently but I just donated $100 to get this ad on TV. If I can do that then surely lots of other people who are lucky enough to have a full time job can do the same! I have a very strong feeling that we are on the threshold of a new Australia, and a vital part of that new Australia must be a political process where all legislation can be properly reviewed and explored before passing into law. I have no fears whatsoever about the Greens and Democrats being in the balance of power. Despite what the major parties will tell you, both have worked well in that role in the past at a state level and the Greens continue to do so well in three states currently.

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Lurline
October 28th, 2007

I can't understand why such reasonable and caring people can't combine to form a third party that would have a REAL chance of dominating - not only the Senate - but ultimately the Federal parliament, too.
The social conscience is so similar - and the only conscience left in Australia today.
Surely you should be able to overcome minor differences in the interests of the people of Australia.
Sincerely,
Lurline.

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Bronwyn
October 28th, 2007

This is a great idea. Let's hope people get behind it like they did with the climate change ad. Even with a Labor government, very little progressive legislation will get up if the Coalition controls the Senate. The more Greens, Democrats and progressive Labor and independent senators we have, the better our hope of a fair and sustainable future.

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Richard Buckdale
October 28th, 2007

If the coalition continues to control the senate, relatively progressive legislation regarding Iraq, WorkChoices & other IR, indigenous affairs, education, hospitals, a bill of rights etc can be effectively blocked. We've had enough of Howard's "vision for Australia", which is so far to the right that even many in his own party are seeing that the Liberal Party has become an Illiberal Party, a party that falls over backwards to promote the most conservative agenda of the big end of town and the religious ultraright.

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The Taylors
October 28th, 2007

We like the ad and have supported it financially because it brings a focus to a very important issue; the inherent danger of a Senate controlled by either of the two major parties. We would, however like to put this proposition; Even the most "rusted on" Labour and Coalition voters must surely consider voting Democrat or Green in the Senate regardless of how they vote in the Lower House. Control of the Senate must be wrested from the major parties and handed back to minor parties who are independent of Labour and the Coalition. This is the only way to ensure accountable Government and responsible opposition.

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goldaura
October 28th, 2007

Could you plese ask those 3 leaders of the Opposition parties how an election can be held when the COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA and STATE OF QUEENSLAND
AUSTRALIA are listed as companies with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission? (See below.)
As such they are not de jure (lawful) governments representing the sovereign people of Australia.
They are de facto governments, and in reality are political-subdivisions of the
UNITED STATES corporation, which was registered in England as a corporation by (Presidential)
Legislative Act in 1871 - 41st Congress, Session III, Chapter 62, page 419. See full info here http://www.brumbywatchaustralia.com/Principality01.htm

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snp5k
October 28th, 2007

return the balance and true 'fair go'.wave SS coalition goodbye and feel good about being australian and our generally good heritage

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Kevin Rennie
October 28th, 2007

For another video on why we can't trust Howard with either government or the Senate see: "John Howard: not, not...responsible" at http://laborview.blogspot.com/ This ones free.

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Anne Kotzman
October 28th, 2007

Having the Democrats, the Greens and Labour standing together and tying this to reforming the balance of power in the Senate, so that it can work as it should, is a fabulous idea. Somehow voters need to be encouraged to vote below the line in the Senate. This will be a challenge. It is so much simpler to vote above the line, and voting below the line requires, intelligence, understanding of the system and a determination to make things more democratic. Is there some way Get Up can assisting voters to deal more easily with below the line voting, otherwise the Democrats will miss out as they have not been preferenced by either major party. We desperately need the Democrats and the Greens in the Senate for more progressive government?
Cheers, Anne

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lionel Hurst DD
October 28th, 2007

All of the Political parties get generous salaries and allowances from your tax dollars already and they can all afford to pay for their own advertising. Let them.This is a blatant attempt by Getup to see that if Rudd is elected, the ALP will also have control of both houses.Should this happen Australia would be in the same boat as it is now.Vote according to your own beliefs at the elections and don't be influenced by Getup or any other political stooge group.To avoid sneaky preference deals, you are better off voting for senate candidates not connected to any of the major parties mentioned.

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Lynne
October 28th, 2007

An American friend is most impressed with Get up. Is there anything similar in the U.S.?

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Philip J GRIFFIN
October 28th, 2007

You guys really have lost the plot. You are no longer an independent medium for people to influence policy - you are very, very anti-conservative and have demonstrated you antipathy to teh government repeatedly. No counterbalance of calling humbug to all politicians so engaged, no queries as to the disproportianate influence of minority party politicians (oh, that anyone from my electorate should have the ear of the Press as does Mr Brown representing some Tasmanians... I have more conservative mixed in in my own particular shade of political grey; and I am very disappointed at the waste of potential...

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Billgo
October 28th, 2007

Delighted to see this initiative being taken. Our Senate vote is the most important one many of us can exercise and we need to remind people who live in 'safe' seats of this fact.

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Cate
October 28th, 2007

This is very exciting -when Howard won the Senate last election he promised (HA HA!) that the Coalition would not let this power go to their heads. But he really couldn't help himself when the whiff of power came his way, could he?? This is how we have had this dreadful anti worker (AKA Work Choices) legislation passed, just for one thing.

If you can't see your way clear to get rid of this 'Big Bosses' government at least take away their dictatorial anti-democratic power in the senate.

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ashley
October 28th, 2007

If, as expected, Labor wins the next election, why would Labor control of the Senate be better than Coalition Control?
GetUp has become a thinly disguised Labor Party organ. Wake up!

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Lyn
October 28th, 2007

If voters do nothing else, please ensure no party has control of the Senate

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rc
October 28th, 2007

To give the Senate to Labor (assuming they win the lower hoause) repeats what we have now (albeit on a slightly less conservative platform). Giving it to the Coalition (assuming they lose the lower house) simply repeats what we've had before -- a frustrated paralised house of review and government. What we need is indead a correct balance of power given to a number of other minor parties (e.g. Greens and Democrates) so that open and transparent dialogue/debate can be encouraged -- what the houses of parliament were created for I suggest. How to achieve this is the question.

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Patrick Speed
October 28th, 2007

Thank you for your iniative.
I have always thought that the Senate, to be an effective House of Review, must not be dominated by either of the two major parties. I say this as a firm ALP suppporter, in the good times and the not so good!
We have compulsory voting in this country. So the responsibility lies with each one of us to vote not only according to our predisposition (if we have such a thing) but mindful of forming a well represented Parlimant.
This I believe, is one of those things worth fighting for.

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Peter
October 28th, 2007

Labor has no hope of gaining control of the Senate so getting senate votes away from the coalition means voting for independents, like the Greens or the Carers Party (NSW). With a larger block of independents the party in government has to actually reason with people outside of their party machine. This is an essential part of having a democracy.

A good idea and targeted to where it will have the most effect. Good work!

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Stu Rawlinson
October 28th, 2007

It is imperative that the balance of power in the Senate is held by the minor parties.It then becomes a viable house of review.Happy to donate.Please keep up the good work.

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Jill
October 28th, 2007

If ads are to be kept off the ABC we must have a progressive Senate. Labor has promised to ban advertising on all ABC-branded websites as well as radio and TV. But a Coalition controlled Senate would block any such legislation. However if a Coalition Government gets back in, it will look at allowing advertising on the ABC - radio, TV and online - and that legislation would actually be passed by a Coalition controlled Senate. Save the Senate and save the ABC from becoming just another commercial broadcaster.

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Sam
October 28th, 2007

Phillip J Griffin, GetUp was established as a progressive organisation independent of any one party with the aim of getting progressive causes heard in parliament.

These causes can't be heard, considered or approved in the current Senate because of the Coalition's majority control. 100% of all Coalition amendments approved and 2% of non-Coalition amendments approved? Who's really lost the plot here?

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Lex
October 28th, 2007

Ummm... I see your point of view getup.org , but I think this is strechting your position just a tad. Yes there is grounds for support for this action, and yes I disagree with liberal politics... but to put this on a medium for social issues.
It's just that there is no comparison between this and other things that you try to bring to attention and I think this is a step backwards for the intrigty of your organisation.

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Philip J GRIFFIN
October 28th, 2007

Sam, I think you are wrong on two seperate points:
1. That is not why Get-Up was set up, or at least not according to the pitch I responded to - that pitch was that we would have an independent voice empowered by teh internet, to keep teh various "bastards honest" - it wasn't about knocking the government, or bitching about the fact that 'the people' wanted the Coalition in majority in the Senate, or asking folk to vote Labor, or supporting minority parties.

It wasn't about embracing 'social justice' or any other particular policy.

It wasn't about providing a plaform for the Left or the Right (but haven't the Left jumped on board?!)

It was simply about ensuring that politicians held to what they said, that politicians represented their communities.

Now about the Senate - you are wrong about that because the Senate is operating as the Constitution provided by design.

There never has been an intent that the Senate be free of the political process - else we would have a modern House of Lords peopled by members that were expert and able to provide real and informed review, and were exempt from responding to the whims and fickle tendencies of the press and the people it leads...

Progressive causes - where did that come from? Ain't part of Get Up, just the interests of some of its users...

Now - please - use the forum as it was intended to be used... Challenge the humbuggery of the whole body politic!

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Christopher
October 28th, 2007

Good stuff - and for those who are writing to protest this supporting Labor - think again. This is about making sure the House of Review is just that. No single party domination of both houses - yeah!!

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Josh
October 28th, 2007

Vote for the greens or the democrats, some of the worst legilsation that passed the Senate, such as the anti-terror laws, which included the sedition laws and the removal of habeas corpus was passed with the support of Labor.

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Hugh
October 28th, 2007

This ad is well intentioned, but the inclusion of Labor in this ad conflicts with the stated intent of the ad. If GetUp wants a Senate truly independent of the Government party, it makes no sense to support Labor, since they are widely expected to win Government. The Senate can not do its job properly if ANY one party controls it - supporting Labor is absurd in this context. Good idea, GetUp, but your would have done better to say "Don't vote Liberal or Labor in the Senate".

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Craig MacKenzie
October 28th, 2007

Get up is a great forum but my wife and I have no money to donate.We are a single income ( a very modest one ) too with a 2 month baby. We are hearing about child care support but what about maternity leave which is taken up by PROGRESSIVE countries in the EU but here it seems that child care is the only option.
By the way I get told what i get paid with no options.
Go get up and the greens in terms of social policy and justice.

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Craig MacKenzie
October 28th, 2007

yeah sorry
this is about the senate but and a very big deal but there are issues as well as the balance of power in the Senate that people need to focus on or is it just small town Australian politics - ie Iraq, climate change, Myanmar, old growth logging in Australia, playing the race card from K Andrews ?

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Bret
October 28th, 2007

Hi, I live on a remote Aboriginal community of 130 people in central Australia at a small community called Warakurna. I would be happy to help but I think your campaign strategy is directed at non-Aboriginal people rather than the people out here. Thanks for your work to progress social and economic justice for Aboriginal people. I have lots of thoughts about messages that need to be conveyed to non-Aboriginal people to enable better understanding and relevant action. Please feel free to contact me if you want to discuss this stuff.

Bret Fishley
08 8954 9026

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Mazza
October 28th, 2007

I am all for having a representative Senate which challenges legislation, however, am concerned about the inclusion of the Labor Party in this initiative. If the Labor Party wins in the Lower House, they would jump at the chance to also have a majority in the Senate so they too could rubber stamp their own legislation with just as risky ramifications for the Australian community. All power to the Democrats and Greens for lobbying for a watch-dog Senate - just don't be fooled and let the Labor Party in with their agenda to do the same as the Libs!

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Peter
October 28th, 2007

Labour having control over the Senate fills me with only just a little less fear than the idea of the coalition having it. I therefore don't want to give money to a GetUp campaign that includes Labour.
Put together an ad that is just the Greens and the Democrats and I'm in.

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Christopher [again]
October 28th, 2007

Sorry to do this but it's a bit hard when there are two concurrent blogs on much the same issue.

With regard to voting in the Senate, nominations close at 12pm on Thursday November the 1st. Group voting tickets must be lodged within 24 hours after that. As soon as we know the group voting intentions of the 'progressive' minor parties, let's have this discussion again. It may be possible to vote well, above the line but we can't know that yet - we've been fooled before - seriously fooled. Would GetUp please discover and publish the Group Voting Tickets at the earliest opportunity, please. Then let's talk.

While I am supporting the ads, I do not want either of the grosser parties in control of the Senate ever again!!!

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Holly
October 28th, 2007

Just wondering, is there a legal issue with putting this ad, and others like it, on youtube? Perhaps it already is there and i can't find it.. but it if it there then it would be more widely seen, especially as people would then post it on their blogs, or myspaces or what-have-you.

I assume there is some valid reason why this isn't done... Just wondering what that reason was?

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Valda
October 28th, 2007

The Senate is NOT a House of Review (except by political distortion). Check our Australian Constitution.

The Senate is a House that is there to protect States' Rights, and was put into place when Federation came into being during 1901. If it is not going to perform the job it was set up to do, then it should be abolished altogether. Think of the money we would save and Australia would have for things that matter, like the infractrastructure everyone is talking about, if we actually did away with Senates and Senators.

On top of that we have Senates in all States with the exception of Queensland. Queensland is, as a consequence, a much cheaper State to live in.

If Getup really does want to do something constructive, why not make people more away of the political distortion that has been carried out of the years by self-interested people.

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Jill
October 28th, 2007

Hey Mazza and Hugh, there's no way the ALP will win the Senate, even if they do win Government in the House of Reps. The Coalition has 39 Senate seats, the ALP has 28. There are two elections going on - the one for the House of Reps and the other for the Senate. That's why it's absolutely terrific that all three non-Coalition parties have had the sense to combine to urge voters to put the Coalition last. Don't worry - the ALP, if elected, will have to depend on the Dems and the Greens to get their legislation through. And that's the good scenario! The bad one is that the Coalition keeps control of the Senate and blocks ALP legislation when it gets to the Senate.

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Jim
October 28th, 2007

Senators - pooh! I just want all the humbuggery that is going on ("like the lowest employment in 33 years") ("fighting hard for working families"), etc., and the other multitude of slogans from both sides, to stop.

If Getup would concentrate on getting politics out of the Senate and support Independents instead the 3 they have in their current ad., we'd all be better off. Likewise in the Lower House; we need more Independents and less Party aligned ventriloquist dummies.

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Ross
October 28th, 2007

I too would like to see GetUp give information re the deals between the parties as to how the preferences will work. I believe that the previous election resulted in the coalition gaining control of the Senate partly because voters were not aware of what their preferences were going to do.
Unfortunately the majority of voters take the easy option and vote above the line.
Please give us as much information as possible to enable us to make an informed and intelligent choice below the line.
I believe that many of the bloggers have shown that they too are not fully aware of how their votes will impact on the result and are reacting to a deeply ingrained "fear belief".
Only understanding and education can overcome fear based on inaccurate information.
That would seem to me to require more information being available to we, the voters.
The political parties are not likely to provide information that will enlighten.
GetUp can, but can only do as much as they are financially able. Not having access to funds from the public purse, we the general public, the concerned members of the general public, must decide whether we are willing to show support or indeed only lip service to our beliefs.
Thank you GetUp for your good work to date and please accept my limited donation towards continuing same.

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stephaine
October 28th, 2007

I might donate if i could see the ad. Not sure if it my computer but i click on the arrow button and it says "done" and nothing happens. Have tried a few times. Any suggestions?

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stephaine
October 28th, 2007

(me again) is the ad on youtube?

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Paul Kavanagh, Melbourne
October 29th, 2007


This campaign is a breath of fresh air in this stultifying, cynical political scene.

Congrats to all involved, especially to Kate/ the ALP for participating.

Could GetUp interview the lead candidates for the smaller parties (and independants) in the Senate to ascertain their views on issues that concern GetUp supporters, and then publish them.

I'm a Democrat who'll vote below the line. It would help if I knew the vital policies of all the candidates.




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Meg of Moruya
October 29th, 2007

To see three parties working together is close to a miracle in politics but it will be in the best interest of the country not just big business.

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beth
October 29th, 2007

which three parties? can we have a summary of the ad for dial-up users?

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Sue at Pechey
October 29th, 2007

Such a shame the labour shaddow minister for th environment can no longer add is name to this initiative!

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Big H
October 29th, 2007

Workchoices is a direct result of the Coalition having control of the Senate. What other nasties are in store if Howard is allowed to keep this power? I urge everyone to follow Getup's 3-party ad. DON'T let the Coalition control our Senate!!

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ansteybranchopolous
October 29th, 2007

When wil the ALP reveal who they are preferencing in the Senate?
Are they seriously thinking of again giving Family First their support?

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Salty Sal
October 29th, 2007

Yay! Greens announce they will give their preferences to Labor. Two days later Mr Rudd announces his fab idea to drought proof Australia (should read "City and stuff the country folk and farmers")by building desalination plants all around the country for urban water use. Bob Browns comments "Labors desal is like Libs nuke".And they are still supporting them!!!! We should be excited about this ? City folk will be able waste as much water as they want.. too bad these monsters account for the spewing of so much CO2 into the air,making rainfall for our food production even less reliable.Better get those backyard vege gardens in Melbourne ( least you can water on ludicrous Stage 3a restrictions) on the go now cos won't be able to buy it..Carbon Neutral? ARGHHH!!!!Who are they kidding?

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Bronwyn
October 29th, 2007

I agree there is some concern with the idea of supporting Labor in the Senate. Some Labor senators though have done a lot to advance the issues important to GetUp supporters, for example, John Faulkner.

If we are to vote for Labor senators, we do need to know whether or not they are true progressives as many within Labor are not. It would be good if GetUp can give us some feedback in this area.

I also strongly support the call for information regarding below the line voting.

To Philip J GRIFFIN - You are out of step with your views on GetUp. Its intent to support progressive issues was made very clear right from the beginning. I don't know where you've been.

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Rosalind
October 29th, 2007

Glad to see the Save the Senate ad. and good to see the the death of Democrats has been exaggerated once again! Hopefully more people will now start thinking about voting below the line instead of giving up control of their vote by simply ticking an above-the-line box.

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Claire Botman
October 29th, 2007

Congratulations on another great ad, but don't forget about the Climate Change Coalition who are running for the senate this election - Doctor Karl Kruszelnicki and Patrice Newell in NSW, Gary Warden (http://wardoffclimatechange.org.au/) & Sarah Bishop in WA, see their website for more candidates. http://climatechangecoalition.com.au

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arrowvector
October 29th, 2007

Some of the other nasties (ref; "Big H" below) is the worsening of work choices along with the dissolution of Medicare(one of Howard's main aims in his politcal life)and Howard's blind obedience to Bush. Bush is already making more than noise about Iran. He says, as he did pre-Iraq invasion, that the Iranians are developing WMD's. As with Iraq, there in NO evidence of this; but that won't stop him invading Iran, especially as they sit on an ocean of oil which is the real reason for any invasion; as it was with Iraq. Now in order to prosecute this invasion-which it is believed is imminent-Bush will call upon 'the coalition of the willing'. Howard, being what he is, will rush to assist, but the problem is we don't so have many troops now because they are deployed in Iraq, Afganistan, Solomon Islands, NT etc. So what will Howard do if he were to retain Senate control? He would reintroduce CONSCRIPTION a la Vietnam. This tragedy nust never be perpetrated upon the Australian people again!!
Already, 'the draft' has been mentioned in Washington a few weeks ago as a means of increasing the surge in Iraq. If they would do it, why not us (thinks the Coalition)? We must never again cause the deaths of our young men by sending them off to foreign soil under some false pretence; not to mention the innocent civilians who get in the way-look at Iraq now. Whoever wins government in November is secondary to Senate control. The Howard team must not be allowed to go on with their abuse of power as they have been doing over the past three years, because Howard will stop at nothing to please Bush. The other thing to remember is that Bush may start Iran but will walk away from it in 2009 leaving everyone else to clean up the mess. This will cause an escalation of problems world-wide; probably the start of WWIII. When it's all boiled down, it's about stealing the OIL from Iraq and Iran. Our own minister of defence, Nelson, said as much on TV a few weeks ago. Why not just BUY the oil from these countries. It would be a lot cheaper than the $billions already wasted in killing people on both sides;not to mention reducing their countries to rubble. And what a gesture towards world peace it would be.

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Margaretha Hanen
October 29th, 2007

Anything to try and curb the adversarial politics promoted through a 2 party dominated system. Isn't politics the art of compromise, integrating a wide variety of thoughts and ideas of citizens, giving leadership in this debate? This should dominate, despite the very real external corporate pressures, and cop the consequences. Get up and stand up!!
Margaretha Hanen

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Christopher
October 29th, 2007

Bronwyn,
I agree with you about the John Fawlknwers of this world, but the reality is that the ALP in power allows no dissent - you'll find no Petro Georgious in the ALP.
Also, if we thought Howard was a control freak, we ain't seen nothing yet.
DO NOT put your trust in an ALP senator looking after States Rights or providing thoughtful review of ALP legislation.

In the Senate, I am hoping the Greens and the Democrats will put each other 'second' with ALP 'third'.

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bobsco
October 29th, 2007

Its about time we recognised that the Senate does not represent the States, and that hardly anyone votes for the individual candidates (over 95% above the line voting). So how about revolutionising the system to have a single, all-Australia election for the senate, listing parties only. A proportional representation system, perhaps counting with preferences similar to now, but requiring a minimum percentage vote to get any candidates up. No major party would have control then.

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jedda
October 29th, 2007

Why are commonwealth employed mp's involved in senate responsabilities and employment. The senate is the upper representative of the australian government and reports to the federal government. therefore the prime minister is not legally or professionally in any way able to respond at that level nor are his voters or political alies.In fact the current prime minister is only employed to respond at a commonwealth level.As such he has a duty of care and an ethical and moral obligation to perform as a prime minister only. According to tradition the prime minister once elected can not lead a political party and is also not to regard him or her self as affiliated with a majority or minority. Therefore why is the current prime minister advertising for the liberal party and why is he continuing his prior employment as a liberal mp when he has been the prime minister for at least 10 years.

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steven
October 29th, 2007

I think that it is a great idea. Unfortunately Australia is blighted with good ideas that went wrong, Cane Toads and Rabbits to mention two.

We had the DLP, Independent Senator Harradine and that silly Democrats cow who gave Howard the GST who provided a balance of power in the senate. The first 2 rorted their power to advantage their own electorate and the latter handed it on a platter to Howard.

A great idea but what guarantees have we got that the solution is not worse than the problem?

Steven

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Bill
October 29th, 2007

I support the idea of an independent Senate but I think this three-party political ad is stretching the boundaries of GetUps' integrity. The associated media hysteria has perhaps led to this ad being a significant impediment to people voting for an independent Senate, rather than an aid. The Einstein(s) in GetUp who thought it would EVER be a good idea to show an ad featuring current Senators - all of whom are up for re-election - during an election campaign, needs to have a Bex and a nice lie down until after the election.

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verine07
October 29th, 2007

I think this is a great idea in principle, but what I want to see is both the Greens AND the Democrats hold the balance of power, to keep both the ALP and the Coalition parties in check. This is especially important to me because both the Greens and Democrats have supported Voluntary Euthanasia (VE) legislation dear to my heart. I urge the people in the ACT, SA AND Qld, to vote give both these parties their 1&2 preferences to ensure that Bob Brown's private member's bill on this issue gets debated in the next parliament. Their holding the balance of power will ensure that the anti-liberals within both the Coalition and the ALP don't hold the vast majority of the electorate in favour of VE to ransom. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th2Hgdrja1o for more info. Thanks, GetUp and friends.

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Terry
October 29th, 2007

Like Stephanie, I can't view the ad. Please fix the problem.
Regarding preferences, Stephen Fielding of Family First, a religious conservative party, was elected on Labor and Democrat preferences. Many supporters of the Democrats (predominantly supporters of gay and lesbian rights) abandoned them because they put politics over policy in their preference deals. No longer can they claim to keep the bastards honest. I resigned from the Democrats over this issue.
Labor has criticised the Greens for putting the Coalition ahead of Family First in their preference deals, the only ethical, as distinct from political, decision they could make. The Greens are the only party to consistently put policy ahead of politics in their preference deals.
Labor's ruthless and absolute party discipline is a killer of Democracy.FYI, I'm an ALP member, because I don't think the Greens are pragmatic enough (although the ALP is too damn pragmatic).
Regardless of what we say here, most people will vote below the line. Getup needs to shine a spotlight on these murky deals, and promise to hurt parties (ie ALP and Democrats) who make unethical deals.
There's a particular situation in SA with Nick Xenophon (IND)running for the Senate and a very good chance. I support his anti-pokies stand, but he had such strong support at the State Level that he got a dud elected to the Legislative Council on his coat tails, and his resignation to run for the Senate might get a second. He seems to have some pretty conservative social values.
At least we have Getup shining a light, not railing against the darkness.
Sorry about the length of the post.

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Ron
October 29th, 2007

This kind of campaigning will destroy the Getup organisation. Getup is successful because it promotes itself as being politically neutral and willing to take action on specific issues regardless of party politics. I don't support this ad campaigm or the precedent it will set.

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Terry
October 29th, 2007

Oops, I meant most people will vote above the line.
I just want to stress, Getup leaders need to go to the Democrats, Labor and Xenophon, and threaten to expose any shoddy deals. At least the Democrats have come to their senses and not splitting their ticket between the Coalition and the ALP.

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geraldine
October 29th, 2007

This GETUP Senate campaign finally gets down (not up) to the nitty gritty of the task ahead of us if we want to be a progressive democratic country. At this point in our history the Senate is the key. It is astounding that many intelligent Aust. voters don't understand how our government election process works, but if GETUP can keep working on this aspect of the federal campaign they'll be doing a great service to the country.
It's vital that we empower the Senate.

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Cas
October 29th, 2007

IT's about bloody time!!!

Politics should be about the people and not about the parties. Good on the Greens, Democrats and Labour for deciding that there should be more cross party discussion and communication.

Let's hope each politician maintains that stance and make decisions based on what is best in the bigger picture and not just because they need to toe the party line to keep their jobs!

(whether Getup should or shouldn't assist in these sort of campaigns is irrelevant. As an Overseas Australian, this is one of the few ways to to find out what is going on at home- So long as Getup continues to criticise and analyse whichever government is in power, then maybe this just balances out tax payer funded campaigns)

Also the whole point of the senate is to give a different voice from the government as a check. The system doesn't work with a Coalition Gov with a coalition senate, or a labour gov with a Labour senate. Vote under the line and vote for smaller parties first!!!!

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Arsenic
October 29th, 2007

Giving the Senate to the ALP will be just as dangerous as giving it to the Coalition.

In my university days, I did a study of voting patterns in the Upper House and discovered that in the three years I was focusing on the ALP and the Coalition voted TOGETHER on almost all legislation. It was somewhere around 80% of the time. Some of those times the minor parties and independents bravely voted with their consciences and voted against the majority, but had no chance of being successful because of the dominance of the majors.

This is apparent in media coverage, too.

I say SCREW the ALP. Why should minor parties let this megaparty have any of the grass roots activism of GetUp? They have plenty of their own bloody cash.

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Kim Sattler
October 29th, 2007

In the ACT we have a real opportunity to restore the balance in the Senate by putting the Liberal Senator Gary Humphries last on polling Day.If we don't manage thto change the balance at this election then our hopes of ending the Work Choices legislation are at great risk.
It is critical for all those people concerned about Howard's extreme IR legislation and its impact on workers now and in the future to reduce the number of elected Liberals in the Senate!

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Arsenic
October 29th, 2007

And by 'bloody' I do mean BLOODY. War in Iraq, Tampa, the death of poor possums in the deforestation massacre, compulsory detainment for REFUGEES, etc., etc., etc., the list of ALP stuff-ups is a long one.

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KAP
October 29th, 2007

Please GetUp give information re the deals between the parties as to how the preferences will work. I am sure the majority of voters take the easy option and vote above the line. We need as much information as possible to make a fully informed and intelligent choice below the line.

Thanks GetUp for your honest and unbiased work.

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costa k
October 29th, 2007

Hello Get Up,

Thank you for encouraging me to stay informed about an array of issues. However I am disappointed with your latest ad campaign "Save the Senate" for a number of reasons.

Firstly, it was the Australian people who elected the Senate at the last election giving the Coaltion a majority. So whilst your campaign declares "Save our Senate" from the Coalition is it really saying "Save our Senate from the people"? If people have handed the majority to a particular party then so be it. Such is democracy with all its imperfections.

So "Saving our Senate" surely does not involve me voting for a new coalition (Greens, Labour, Dems) just to see the other coalition defeated. Rather we need people like "Get Up" to push Senators of all affiliations to create great policies. Come election day we will then see how democracy works in the Senate, imperfections and all.

thanks for your time,

costa k

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John Lewis
October 29th, 2007

Nobody ought to donate a single dollar to this campaign until all three parties to the advertisement give an absolute assurance that they will reinstate or thoroughly and publicly re-invigorate ALL of the mechanisms and procedures that guarantee the Senate's function of legislative and administrative review.

Most important among these are the legislative review committees, as well as the Senate estimate committees. But this should include ALL of the sometimes arcane provisions of Senate practise, especially the bits most of us don't understand.

If not, not one dollar!

The Coalition's control of the Senate is a red herring: Opposition control of the Senate is an almost normal state of affairs in the Senate and balance-of-power control by tiny parties is no guarantee of anything resembling democracy.

The Coalition has behaved appallingly - but it wasn't its voting in the Senate that did the damage: the destruction it did to Senate practise is far far worse.

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Daniel
October 29th, 2007

Is the idea of "saving our Senate" relevant in the context of an impending Liberal defeat?

And will the ad itself be effective? How many voters do you know cast their ballot based solely on constitutional and democratic considerations? More personal issues such as tax cuts seem to dominate a voter’s decision in voting, rather then some ivory tower conceived idea of utopia.

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Swerve
October 29th, 2007

Democratic balance in this country will not be restored unless those elected to it are prepared to push the government of the day to properly review legislation. This term of office has been frightening on that score. The major issue of the coming election may well turn out to be the way in which Howard's remnants maintain control over the upper house stalling much needed progressive legislation and covering their own authoritarian failures this past 10 years or so ... now is not a time for progressives to be timid in the senate - since the collapse of the Democrats democracy in Australia has, to say the leats been severely imperiled. Yes, the Australian people need to be alerted to just how much is at stake in the senate and just how huge a progressive vote is needed to restore balance. It is still possible that Howard sneaks over the line in the house of Reps due to massive spending in the marginals and maintains control over the senate - thus NOTHING will change in terms of leg. authority despite a big swing to progressive parties ... the nightmare we don't need!

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James, Melbourne
October 29th, 2007

I'm a bit concerned about having the Labour party in this add too - for two reasons:
1. it portrays Get up as just being of the left and so it loses some of it's independance and authority
2. The labour party is as much responsible for corrupting our democracy as the libs. They vote together in something like 80% of cases. We need to promote the role of the minor and micro parties.

If we really want to subvert contemporary political discourse we should have an add with the Greens, Dems and Family First, these are the parties who can hold the majors to account. Family First preferences will probably flow to the coalition - this should be a target of our campaign to save the senate.

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James, Melbourne
October 29th, 2007

Further to below, I've just discovered from Get up's about page that Bill Shorten and Evan Thornley were former Get Up Board members. Bill is now running in the elction for the ALP and Evan is a Labour MP in the Victorian Parliament. Thought other members might like to know this. I don't mean to say that there aren't good people in the ALP but does it say something about where Get Up has come from?

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Matt Moses
October 29th, 2007

I'm afraid this one is a little too partisan for me and I cannot support this campaign. Get up is starting to look like an arm of the Labour Party. Come on - let's keep this campaign independant like we're supposed to. I agree with some of the previous emails - this could spell the end of Get Up. The right thing to do is not to go ahead with this.

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Anthony Nolan
October 29th, 2007

I am not convinced this add is a good idea. If it were merely GetUp advocating an independent vote in the Senate, for whomever one chose, then I think that would be OK. But enrolling the support of the 'three parties', it seems to me, runs the risk or representing those parties as a sort of coherent left to Howard's rightism (which is not the case) ... and it therefore may spook the Hansonite vote into swinging back to Howard instead of returning to Labour

ALSO, and significantly, the democrats swore blue, black and blind that they would not support a GST on books...and then did!! (Was it Kernot?) I will never, ever support them again, for that reason alone.

Anthony Nolan

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Gordon Worrall
October 29th, 2007

This campaign assumes the Libs are going to be returned in the House of Reps. Otherwise Labor will control both Reps and Senate - exactly the situation we are in now. You should be campaigning to have the Libs control the Senate - ie preserve the status quo.

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Nickos
October 29th, 2007

The thing I object to the most about Senate seats in general and those in the ACT in particular is that they have become sinecures. I expect that Gary Humphries will simply presume that he will hold the seat forever. Not if I can do anything about it. Go Kerrie Tucker!

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Diana
October 29th, 2007

A coalition of control in the Senate - which is what this ad is really about - will be like it was in NSW when the Independents held the balance of power in parliament. It was a brilliant thing for We the People - the most democratic parliament ever. The major parties hated it but we are still enjoying the benefits. That's what I think this is about and why I support it.
Continuing to punish the Democrats for something that simpering twerp MEG LEES did (hopping into bed with Howard) is stupid.
This is not about Libs or Labor, it's about a rare outbreak of democracy - for all our sakes - support it!!

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Peter-N
October 29th, 2007

I'd might donate if I could see the advert but it doesn't seem to be woking through my browser. Can others see it using IE6?

Regards
Pete

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Carl
October 29th, 2007

GetUp did start sort of like an ALP front, based on the same idea as the US Democrats front group MoveOn. But it is slowly becoming more independent. However it still has lots of people with an ALP mindset. Which is probably why they include the ALP in the ad even though it makes no sense for their Save Our Senate campaign. It is also why they ban real grassroots groups like the Socialist Alliance from their campaigns even though Socialist Alliance supports all their policies.

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Carl
October 29th, 2007

For those who can't view the Three Party Ad:

Narrator (C. Brown):
"Three Political Parties United To" (with text)
"Save Our Senate" (Save Our Senate logo)

Bob Brown:
"We've never done this before."

Labor:
"But this election, whether you vote for her party..."

Democrats:
"or his party..."

Bob Brown:
"or her party..."

Labor:
"make sure you vote to end the coalitions absolute control of the senate."

Democrats:
"It's time to restore balance to the senate."

Bob Brown:
"Because we can't do the great job we want to..."

Labor:
"and make laws better..."

Democrats:
"while one side calls all the shots."

Narrator:
"Three parties united to Save Our Senate." (with Save Our Senate logo and graphic)

"Vote for balance." (with GetUp logo)

"Authorised by Narelle Kelly, GetUp Canberra" (with text: Authorised by Narelle Kelly, GetUp, Gowrie ACT; Speakers B. Brown, K Lundy, L. Allison, C. Brown)

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AilsaHyland
October 29th, 2007

Absolutely COOL! GOFORIT

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Richard
October 29th, 2007

Your comment To all those complaining, the three parties in the add, are all tainted with a tinge of pink, I simply say bring it on. Anything to bring an end to the small f facism we've endured for the past three years.

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William Harold
October 29th, 2007

I would be more worried about the coalition of ALP, Greens and Democrats having the balance of power in the Senate than the Liberal.National Coalition.

It seems to me that the Liberal/National Coalition has no chance of forming government.

So perhaps then the reverse of your argument is true with the ALP winning hands down in the Lower House in the Two party preferred count it may be more prudent to have an opposition of Liberal/National reviewing everything in the senate.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

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P
October 29th, 2007

The advertisement gives me hope to bear with my overwhelming concern for urgent action on climate change issues and the intense frustration of watching the government first deny and now procrastinate about the need for serious targets to reduce, reuse, refrain from and recycle as well as for investing (real money) in best practice sustainable energy etc. If a more balanced Senate can assist, as the advertisement suggests, I'm all for it!!!

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T
October 29th, 2007

I don't agree with the sentiments expressed in your email. While I have supported action on specific issues, I don't support the promotion of specific political parties in the Senate or otherwise. I think you risk your credability and bi-partisan support if you do...this will dilute your influence impede further efforts at transforming Australia for the better.

To suggest that an overwhealming decision by the electorate to vote for the Liberal party in the Senate is 'bad for democracy' is wrong. It is the very result of our version of democracy that allows it.



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Colin
October 29th, 2007

Some comments assume that the ALP may end up controlling both houses, and suggest that this is a plot on their part to that end. But it is to all intents and purposes IMPOSSIBLE for the ALP to win control at this election, because they are so far down in the Senate at present and it is only a half-Senate election. The alternatives that face us are that the Coalition will control the Senate in its own right; that control will be shared between the Coalition and Family First and/or an independent; or that control will be shared between the ALP and Greens (and Democrats - if any).

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Colin Walpole
October 29th, 2007

The whole parliamentary structure needs to be changed. Both houses need to be voted in by a system of proportional representation. The lower house needs to strictly concentrate on introducing legislation and the senate needs to review that legislation in terms of the national interest and never on party lines so it never becomes the rubber stamp it has become now.

Currently the senate is a states house. This needs to be abandoned in favor of the house of representatives returning a series of candidates proportionally represented on a regional basis and the senate returning members chosen by electoral colleges based on a nationwide election.

But to make it fully fair the power of both houses needs to be limited to the specific function each house fulfills. The tyranny of one political party to determine a national outcome would then be rightfully curtailed. In other words if a senate is to refuse the passage of legislation it can only do so with due and well considered justification. If a representatives house is to introduce a legislation it can only do so within the strict guidelines of a constitution designed for the greater good of the whole.

This will never happen but it is designed to make the reader think about what the house of representatives is supposed to do and what the senate is supposed to do and that is represent and review. Sadly this will not happen nor will it ever happen while party political loyalties exist.

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grenouille
October 29th, 2007

Combined Party ad excellent idea.I think it is somewhat relevant to include Labor in it but what we neeed is a permanent solution to this as no matter what party is in, there will no democratic principal if the ruling party cannot pass any bills viz "blocking of supply" where the govt could not function. This would as bad as or worse than rubber stamping. So system has somehow to be moderated so that there is a permanent balance with real discussion taking place and enough time over every bill!!!

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CJ
October 29th, 2007

When Mark Latham was trying to become Prime Minister one of his policies was to bring back death duties. Well, I would like to know if Mr. Rudd intends to do the same, It is all very well to promis billions of taxpayer dollars for everthing it is another to find the money> We don't need more tazes. Another thing if the interest rates rise don't think Mr. Rudd will be able to stop them. We are ruled by forces outside Australia.

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jm
October 29th, 2007

We need independents in the senate and also voted into government, then we might make some sense. Independents must work for their constituents. They do not toe the party line or vote on bills according to the party policies. They have to work for us or they won't be there next time.

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Hilary
October 29th, 2007

It is vital that in this election Australians vote wisely to insure appropriate checks and balances, to avoid total power in the hands of one party in both houses, or the balance of power in the senate in the hands of the opposition. That way no well balanced policy can get through. We must protect the role of the senate as a wise and just house of review. Let's all think about how to vote, and use our power by filling in the boxes below the line when we cast our senate vote!

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Howard the Terrorist
October 29th, 2007

If you all ruin my control of both Houses how can I continue to Terrorise this beautiful country of mine?

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Righteous
October 29th, 2007

I don't quite get getup on this one. OK, I understand that it's perhaps not desireable for the coalition to retain a majority in both houses. But how can getup object to the coalition retaining its senate majority if Labot wins office in the lower house? Wouldn't it then be an 'independent' upper house? I'm not a coalition or Labor supporter and will probably vote Greens in both houses. I just think getup is being either a bit disingenuous or confused in its position here.

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Don
October 29th, 2007

I don't trust either side of politics. Basically politicians from any party with a chance of winning a large vote are lying cheating scumbags. And John Howard, a MASTER politician, is a MASTER lying cheating scumbag! For Australia's future he MUST go, but we must keep Rudd under control too.

If, as appears likely, the coalition keep control of the Senate the damage to Australia will be immense. But if Labour manage to control the Senate it won't be much better. I'll be putting The Greens & the Democrats ahead of both of them in both houses, but particularly in the Senate.

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john
October 29th, 2007

In the last election the ALP numbers men miscalculated and their preference flow gave Family First a Senate seat. If we support the three party Senate ticket we may finish up with both houses controlled by the ALP which negates an independent Senate. I want to be sure that my vote gives an independent Senate with the balance held by Independents and minor parties. Has anyone closely examined the possible preference flows?

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Sam
October 29th, 2007

Get this on YouTube! Put a link to the donation form on the page for it and people will come.

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Sam
October 29th, 2007

John,

The ALP won't be able to gain control of the Senate by itself, it'd need to win four seats in five of the six states (and three in the last) in addition to each the NT and ACT seats that it's likely to win. This would require the highest ever ALP Senate vote and then some or for all minor parties to be eliminated in favour of the ALP (which simply won't happen).

The ALP will never have an outright majority in the Senate unless they win two landslide elections back to back with a depressed minor party vote as well.

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Beewee
October 29th, 2007

Whatever happened to the concept of "First Among Equals"?
P.J.Keating was derided by the Monarchists as wanting to be Australia's first President. For sometime now, the media have been speaking of Howard's "Presidential" style. This betrays a basic misunderstanding. The man is an egocentric autocrat.

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Doug
October 29th, 2007

Give us a break. Greens & Democrats wouldn't know how to govern & with the ALP would be in control of the Senate & do as they like, so what is the diff. How about taking on Bligh & Beattie (now gone) about the Traveston dam & impact on those people.Using rainfall figures up to 2000 & next to nothing has fallen in this area since.

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LJ
October 30th, 2007

A question related to our health system problems:
Have any other GetUp members wondered why neither party has proposed creating more university places to train doctors?

It is not a short term fix for all the problems of our health system but surely, training more doctors in Australia is a better solution to our chronic doctor shortage than relying on immigrant doctors trained in other systems.
With such fierce competition for current places and high standards in our health and education sectors, we could without too much difficulty create a pool of qualified doctors.

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Lee Emerson
October 30th, 2007

Maybe Get Up should be looking at the structure of the Senate and the way it works. With our party system the way that it is, any party (no matter who) that also has a majority in the senate will pass its own bills through and block everthing else - it simply highlights how unwieldy and ridiculous our so called democratic system is!

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Peter Graham
October 30th, 2007

Those who are worried that GetUp might appear to be favouring one, or another, political party at the upcoming elections should consider this.

If the Howard government is returned to government and has a majority in the Senate, we will have more of the same, only more so. Howard has shown us what that means, a total disregard for the National Interest, and a complete rubber stamp of Howard's ideological fixations.

On the other hand, should Labor win government and the Coalition retain control of the Senate, there can be no progressive legislation passed. The record of the Coalition in the Senate over the past term will attest this.

It is almost impossible for Labor to get control of the Senate at this election, but it would not advance the cause of Democracy if The Coalition, by some miracle, were to retain government and Labor won the Senate. That would likely result in the blocking of government legislation as well.

The plan put forward by GetUp aims to prevent either major party gaining control of the Senate. It is in all our interests to make this our aim. We need only to vote below the line in such a way so as to give maximum preferences to the minor Party of our choice, preferably one that has a reasonable chance of winning a seat.

If we all do that, we can achieve a Senate where neither major Party has the power, unaided, to push through or block legislation. This would go a long way towards restoring a Democracy severely debased by the actions of the government during its last term. Bravo GetUp for fostering this latest iniative to restore the Senate to its rightful place as a house of review, not a rubber stamp.

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The Commissar
October 30th, 2007

What a dispocable deed by Rudd expelling Joe Mcdonald. If he had any principle at all, he would return the election donation to the CFMEU forthwith. To GET UP, keep up the good work.

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Yolly
October 30th, 2007

To my mind, by far the most important thing in the Senate election in Victoria is to return the redoubtable and utterly honourable Lyn Allison for the Democrats to the Senate. This can be achieved much more easily by the Labor Party directing its preference flow to her than anything else.

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Matt Moses
October 30th, 2007

Unlike some comentators, I wouldn't exactly call Labour and the Greens being united unprecedented, and the despicable desperado Democrats have been showing us for years how prepared they are to get into bed with anyone who will give them some media, and some power they have'nt been elected to hold. They are all scum and the best idea they can come up with is not to let the other bloke get into power.

What a beat up Getup has been sucked into (or started??). Wake up Australia.

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meg
October 30th, 2007

we are living in desperate times
our country has been going down the gurgler
there is no time to discuss whether or not 3 parties plus get up should stand together publicly to to stress a very important point the- 100% pass rate of liberal decisions is non democratic


it is however possible for independent parties and thinkers to express shared points of view in a democracy
lets do it
you have my donation
I love my country and world

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Robyn McNamara
October 31st, 2007

To those of you worried about preference flows, remember that you don't have to vote above the line in the Senate. In fact, because I don't have the time or inclination to spend scrutinizing all the nasty little political horse-trades such as Labor-Family First, I've *never* voted above the line. And I politely decline how-to-vote cards, too. (I *know* how to vote. You put numbers in all the little boxes.)

Sure, it takes a bit longer, but what's ten minutes on election day compared to the horror of accidentally helping to vote in someone whose policies you loathe?

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Ken Yap
October 31st, 2007

To all those people who are confused thinking that this is a ploy to give Labor control over the Senate, and Getup shouldn't be going there, please read Peter Graham's well-composed explanation. In brief:

1. Labor has no chance of controlling the Senate this election.

2. It's bad to leave control of the Senate with the Liberals, that would prevent progressive legislation from passing.

3. And all you have to do is give your Senate vote to the Greens or Democrats. This will keep both major parties on their toes.

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Brian
October 31st, 2007

Haveing total control of the Senate, so far has proved to be disasterious.

Why make it happen all over again.
Vote anybody but Liberal to fix this non-democratic situating.

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Disabledwriter
October 31st, 2007

The site now says that having reached the original target and surpassed it, Getup will now use the additional funds to screen the ad in the ACT AFTER the election has been held. Surely a better use of the funds would be to get it screened in additional States and Territories BEFORE the election has been held?!?!?

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skeptic
October 31st, 2007

Your comment
The last time I voted for a minor party in the Senate it was for the Democrats when GST was on the agenda. There were many of us who did that, just to prevent the GST. Well, Meg Lees stitched us up. Some of us haven't forgotten. I still have the newspaper cutting with Meg Lees and John Howard photographed, and the heading "why is Meg Lees smiling"

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BobP
October 31st, 2007

There is only one to get reasonable outcomes in a system where contrary views are at play and that is to endeavour to maintain a balance of power.

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Rosemary Chance
October 31st, 2007

There's no clear message here of how to achieve the aim

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Vote Below the Line
October 31st, 2007

The most effective way to achieve this outcome is to VOTE BELOW THE LINE on your Senate ballot paper, i.e. number all the boxes below the line rather than a single box above the line.

The reason for this is that voting above line results in Senate preferences being distributed according to the wishes of (the major) political parties, which are not necessarily the same as the individual voter's preferences. With more than more than 90% of voters voting above the line we risk skewing the representation of the Senate away from that of the electorate towards that of the major parties.

A recent ABC Radio National "Perspective" by Peter Andren provides greater detail

http://abc.net.au/rn/perspective/stories/2007/1954625.htm

See also Anthony Green's article at

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3359

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Chris Colenso-Dunne
November 2nd, 2007

I concur: Vote Below the Line.

You've heard of the donkey vote? Well voting above the line is the lazy vote.

Peter Andren (see preceding comment) claims that more than 90% of electors vote above the line. However, in Anthony Green's article (also see preceding comment) Green claims that at the 2004 Senate election - quote - 96 per cent of mainland electors voted above the line, a lower 81.2 per cent in Tasmania where state elections have given voters more experience with proportional representation - unquote.

Admittedly, voting below the line can seem a little daunting at first. There are so many candidates - and what if you make a mistake? However, the electoral rules for the Senate state that for your vote below the line to be formal, you have to vote only for at least 90% of the candidates (when there's ten or more) with a maximum of three numerical mistakes that if corrected would still give you all your numbers in sequence without omissions or repetitions.

For the full statement of rules go to the AEC page here: http://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/How_to_vote/Voting_Senate.htm

If needs be, get your better half to check your ballot paper for mistakes and then check theirs. It’s worth making the effort to vote below the line – after all, it’s only once every three years.

So don't be a lazy voter at the coming half-senate election. Vote Below the Line.

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Georgina
November 2nd, 2007

I'm glad to see others so passionate about keeping our democracy. Well done GetUp.As an Australian Democrats candidate standing in the seat of Warringah I am saddened to see myself referred to as a scumbag.As a Registered Nurse & Medical Radiation Scientist I am very busy and I devote what little spare time I have to the Democrats because I care about keeping Australia a democracy. Have you forgotten all John Howards lies? It seems the GST is a bigger issue than the war!

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MR Social Justice
November 3rd, 2007

The aim here is to bring the Neo-Conservative Pendulum to the centre.

Furthermore,controlling the information networks does not assist a democracy either.

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Mr Social Justice
November 3rd, 2007

I meant to say a perceived democracy.

They are called Public Servants, and we are referred to as Public.

Therefore, they are public Servants, not masters.

If a democracy is to thrive, it needs to become realised.

I am saddened to see Heinous acts of Terror being used as a catalyst to oppress the people (N.Chomsky).The only people to be affected from the Stringent Laws passed, are the innocent people, or activist groups (McCulloch,2003). We beleived we were going to be safer by allowing tighter legal controls, this was the premise - You know WMD's, AWB, Etc... Now this premise looks as though it was solely to propell anarcho-syndicated power under the premise of a global security dilemma.

There can be no human rights, when humans are being subjected to such oppressive regimes, that use power as base to control and oppress.

Therefore, When we talk of a democracy, what are we talking about? Is it the Illusion of Democracy? Or its erosion?

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Dazza
November 4th, 2007

Let us not forget that the coalition will have control of the Senate, even if they lose control, until July 1, 2008. If the Howard government is returned, they can still do a lot of damage before then and afterwards, they don't have to do much at all. Judging Howard's gagging debate on bills during his government, this is more than likely to happen. When Costello takes over, I can see his silly smirk will be more prominant than ever.

The only way is to vote for a change of government in the house of reps and vote sensibly on the Senate form and wait until July 1 when, maybe, the coalition will lose control of the Senate. This election is the most important one for many years and determines our future.

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Reubenvbm
November 4th, 2007

This looks good. I can't say that Labor's much too different to the Liberals, but at least they're a bit better than them.

You must be mindful of which minor party you vote for. Parties like CEC are balmy right-wing republican nationalists (a delightfully antagonistic combo). They are following their cult leader Lyndon LaRouche to what they deem as economic prosperity (ie. through denying global warming and enacting racist policies).
Then you get Socialist alliance: Good meaning but badly represented. They are perpetually misconstrued both by the media and by there own marketing. Saying that "such-and-such a world-leader is a 'terrorist'" is jejune and reactionary.

Democrats and the Greens are the way to go, if you ask me.

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Glenn Law
November 5th, 2007

Whether we consider the recent grotesque power engorgement of the Howard government, or simply rely on logic and common sense, it is clear that no democratic good can ever be served when there is a one-party monopoly of both the Upper and Lower House.

In fact, such a situation is anathema to the concept of democracy as we would all prefer to know it, and as we have all recently experienced is nothing other than a slippery slope towards dictatorship.

Think about it. Some previously undisclosed radical policies have been rammed through the Upper House with no effective mechanism to challenge them. Only a moron would ignore the reality that, had this government harbored even more extreme (and undisclosed) policies, this country would have been at their complete mercy.

My suggestion would be that we all agitate for an investigation into the means and methods by which the Senate electoral process, not to mention the Constitution, might be revised and improved, to forever eliminate the possibility that today's distasteful status-quo, irrespective of which political party, could ever be repeated.

I love Australia. I support Democracy. These before my support for any political party.

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Allan Bruce
November 6th, 2007

The principle of balance in a parliamentary democracy is surely compromised when any party is able to hold onto power for too long, and in Australia control of both Houses is always risky, but particularly so when the PM enjoys that characteristic of every dictator...belief in his own divinity. The Senate has been tragically misused for the past 2 years.

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john halden
November 7th, 2007

The likely result for the Senate will be Greens holding the balance if power. When the last Tasmanian Senator held this position it was not attractive so why do we want to repeat history?

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Matt
November 8th, 2007

Being an independent movement, why doesn't GetUp support true independents getting elected into the Senate instead of major parties other than Liberal. I am sure there are plenty of decent progressive independents running for the senate that do not belong to a party and are truly independent. To my way of thinking these people normally deal with the issues – parties generally have agendas.

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John Dunlop
November 8th, 2007

I like the idea of a political insurance policy. That's what the senate is supposed to be.

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MY MATE JOE
November 8th, 2007

DEAR JOE HOCKEY,
YOU SAY THAT YOU KNOW WHATS BEST FOR AUSTRALIA...I'LL TELL YOU WHATS BEST FOR ME JOE....YOUR SIGNATURE ON YOUR LETTER OF RESIGNATION! YOUR MOB HAVE NOW HAD 11 LONG YEARS TO IMPLEMENT THE PROMISES YOU ARE NOW MAKING TO US? WHILE YOU TALK ABOUT 17 BILLION IN BUDGET SURPLUS MY POCKETS ARE EMPTY,PEOPLE ALL AROUND ME ARE LOSING THEIR HOMES!!! THE ONLY BIGGER JOKE THAN WORKCHOICES IS ...THATS RIGHT JOE ITS YOU!

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Mike Cole
November 10th, 2007

Want to get a Balance of Power in The Senate? Have a look at the web site < www.senatoronline.org.au > then join up and tell all your friends. This new organisation will vote in The Senate as per the instructions of the majority of its members. Their creed is almost identical to our GetUp one. This can be the first step in the birth of TRUE DEMOCRACY where the power of decision becomes the prerogative of the people. ACT NOW !

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thylacine
November 12th, 2007

The Senate election promises to be as important as the house of reps. The Senate's role as a house of review is under threat unless true independent thinkers can have the opportunity to review and amend legislation pushed through by a government with the numbers in both houses. The abuse of power by the Executive branch of government has been the norm of the current Coalition government and needs to be brought abruptly to a halt.

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undy
November 14th, 2007

Just a reminder to everyone to vote below the line in the senate or your vote may not go where you expect.

The example that has wound me up is the Climate Change Coalition who are preferencing The Fishing Party (at least in NSW) ahead of some parties with a firm policy for limiting global warming (eg the Greens). The Fishing Party deny that global warming is man-made and publish links to the major climate "skeptics" on their web-site.

I have asked the CCC about this - is it a dumb mistake or are they a front for the Fishing/Shooting Party, but had no response. In fairness I did get a response from the DrKarl blog, but it was less than satisfactory.

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undy
November 14th, 2007

Re: INFORMATION REGARDING VOTING IN THE FORTHCOMING FEDERAL ELECTION

I think that Richard's comment is wrong - this type of voting (Langer style) was specifically declared to be informal by an amendment to the Commonwealth Electoral Act in 1998. See section 240... unless I'm missing something (and I often am).

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Terry Townsend, Blue Mountains Socialist Alliance
November 15th, 2007

Please share this information with your members and supporters:

From the Vote Climate web site:

Rankings based on climate policy
http://voteclimate.org.au/node/158

Climate policies compared
http://voteclimate.org.au/FED07-Policy-Analysis
http://voteclimate.org.au/FED07-detailed-polcy-sumaries

************

Climate Change Charter:
http://www.socialist-alliance.org/resources/SA_climate_change_charter.pdf

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von
November 19th, 2007

i want labor to win the house of reps but wen it comes to the senate i dont what ether of the major partys to cotrol it because the second the partys control both there is no real need for the 'house of review' but if labor had the house of reps libs havin the centate would b bad to so vote greens or democrates becase they both have the right view and know how to be the 'house of review' more than the 2 major partys
in the cenate...
VOTE ANYTHING BUT LIBERAL NATIONAL OR LABOR
VOTE FOR A SMALLER PARTY THEY SHOULD HAV THE BALANCE OF POWER ITS IN YOUR INTREST!!!!!!!!

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Andrew Perry
November 20th, 2007

When was the last time you heard, via media, of our foreign debt?
For me it was the Howard/Keating election 11 years ago and was an election issue. Our debt was 180 billion dollars.
I have found through the Australian bureau of Statistics that 6 years ago it stood at 500 billion dollars. Today, after 6 years of economic boomtime it stands at 1 trillion dollars. Yes, that’s right, it doubled in 6 years. You can check it out for yourself. http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@archive.nsf/log?openagent&5302031.xls&5302.0&Time Series Spreadsheet&1FCAFF46342653FACA257346007CB6F2&0&Jun 2007&30.08.2007&Latest
Scroll down and click on the series ID right of FOREIGN DEBT LIABILITIES
I know all the issues dealt with on GetUp are serious but if you do not face the largest issue facing Australia and the world you will be fighting hundreds of bushfires
There is a secret that needs to be exposed to us. That secret lies within our financial structure.
We believe that our Australian dollar is our currency. Well it is not. All our money in existence has come into being through being borrowed. Let me explain, when our govt wants more money into circulation it approaches the Reserve Bank of Australia. The RBA approaches financial institutions of its choice. That institution 'loans' that money to the govt, has the mint print it or more simply enter the figures into treasury's account and then charges us interest on the 'loan'.
Here's the catch, that financial institution or bank merely produces the money into existence, it is not money that the bank already had, the money is created into the economy.
For the first quarter of last century our treasury once produced our own curency and charged ourselves with a fraction of a percent interest. Now we 'borrow' our curency from banks, hence our dollar is known as a banknote not a treasury note.
This system is easily explained in documentaries like 'Money as Debt', ‘Zeitgeist’ and 'The Money Masters' available on Youtube.com
How do we repay that interest? Via taxes and excises.
What happens when our govt pays the interest on our loans to overseas banks from our tax revenue? The money then goes out of our economy and we need to borrow more to fill the void. Hence ALL countries with a central banking system are in perpetually spiraling DEBT
Why don't the media tell us of this? Because you are not meant to know
People in African countries starve to death with massive foreign debt.
Govt debt is a fraction of the debt incurred by Australia. The majority of debt comes from personal and business loans. Yes the money that you borrowed for that car or house the bank never had. When you signed over control to the bank of the issuance of new money, the figures were then entered into your account when that money never existed before. You now pay interest on that amount and pay back the principal
This provides a problem. Where do you get the money to repay interest and principal when only principal was loaned into existence? The answer lies in larger loans to be created. Hence our govt borrows more and house prices increase to further us into debt.
It is an impossible treadwheel we run on. This is why your money does not buy as much. This is why couples nowadays have to both work. Mortgages take one third of the average income. Average home loans now exceed half a million dollars
Stop rubbing your hands together thinking how much your home is now worth. We have to consider ourselves collectively.
You can ignore this pinnacle of all issues and watch our country plunge further in debt due to the greed of overseas banks who pay no tax on profits, and I hope that the bank does not claim your property when it tightens up money in society with interest rate increases, or we can GetUp and inform ourselves of our plight and take action
Legendary Australian, R.M Williams
When asked what message he would like to deliver to modern Australia said on his 90th birthday
"Oh, alright. Rewrite the Banking act to give the federal Treasurer power to control the nations money; reform the monetary system; limit the International Monetary Fund's powers; resurrect the rural credits department; make foreign companies pay tax in Australia; allow gold producers to sell overseas and give people back control over their own money"
In 1937, When the Commonwealth Bank was our central bank, Australia had a Royal Commission into Money and Banking. Justice Napier of the commission issued a statement that read "The Commonwealth Bank can make money available to Governments or to others on such terms as it chooses- even by way of a loan without interest, or even without requiring either interest or repayment of the principal"
Please understand the importance of this. We could have had a foreign debt of nothing. We could have taken our personal and business loans from our own bank with interest returning to the economy. We could have eliminated tax due to revenue raised. We could have also loaned overseas. Of huge importance we could have controlled our own interest rates. No more boom bust economy which is designed to reap money from us (buy low, sell high)
Be aware people; educate yourself and others of our situation. Watch 'Money as Debt', watch 'The Money Masters', watch 'Zeitgeist' all on youtube.com or purchase DVD
Little known facts..
Bill Gates has never been the richest man in the world.
We borrow into existence our currency from overseas banks that pay no tax.
Our foreign debt doubled in the last 6 years to 1 trillion dollars.
At 8% interest that is 80 billion dollars per year in interest
Australia, until 1924, printed our own currency through our Treasury.
There were less than half a dozen countries that don't loan their currency from foreign banks.
Iraq was one of those few, and that Iran is another.
President John F Kennedy brought 4 billion dollars of treasury owned currency into circulation which was withdrawn immediately after his assassination.
We have been completely duped, ripped off, and are spiraling into slavery.
Get Up, Stand Up for each other and expose these secrets.

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EyeRa
November 22nd, 2007

Many of our younger and first time voters will be using youtube.com and other net sites to find out about election issues. We have a chance to show them some of our reasoning and strategies on how we vote and the importance of the Senate.
Some of the info in blogs here would be great to put up if we had a voting strategy video on youtube to discuss and post them.

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pensioner
November 22nd, 2007

Thankyou, You have made it clear for me ,at last. Great work keep it up

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elizabeth
November 22nd, 2007

I live in bondi & have received at least 7 enveloped letters from Malcom Turnbull and another from his wife. paper wastage? he needs to tread lighter on the environment.

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valm
November 22nd, 2007

Thanks for your hard work on the issue of the Senate, I hope it pays off at Saturday's election.

And thanks for the explanations about the voting system - I've been voting for many years but still had only a hazy understanding - it's now slightly less hazy!!

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Georgina
November 22nd, 2007

Since the Coalition government gained control of both houses of Parliament they abolished the senate's reference committees and gave themselves the majority on any remaining committees and the Chairs of all of them.
During this time we have seen a slow erosion of our rights,freedoms and a tighteng of laws effectively putting a gag on the press of the press.
It is time that Australia adopted a Bill Of Rights to ensure that our basic freedoms can never be taken away. Australia is the only common law country without a bill of rights.
How did we ever get into a war in Iraq?
The Democrats are adamant that Parliamentary consent is needed before Australian troops are sent to any overseas conflict, except in the case of emergency where gaining such consent would be impractical.
The Democrats aim to take the decision to commit troops to overseas conflict out of the hands of the Prime Minister and a subservient and secretive Cabinet, and place it with Parliament. Having a legislative mechanism available to review an Executive decision to send our troops abroad would mean greater scrutiny of the circumstances under which the decision was made.

Lets not go to Iran!

The Democrats are beholden to neither the Unions nor Big Business.We are not driven or constrained by ideology.
We need an independant senate.
PLEASE VOTE DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE

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Helen Herbert
November 23rd, 2007

I agree wholeheartedly with your alert on the senate--I have never voted for the same party above & below the line I also do not think that Peter Costello has been tested as a good treasurer--in boom times the challenge is non existant.I do not feel that the government has been prudent in its expenditure .I think the financial baby bonus was an obscene use of money which would have benefited the Australian community more if it had been invested in education--e.g. training more teachers for 2nd language/music
Not many farming dependent voters would vote for a labor party as their minister for primary industry is never included in caucus
I also find it offensive that the coalition infer that the no other party has the intelligence to manage a government or the capacity to learn from past mistakes

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3 way split questioner
November 23rd, 2007

Please tell me quickly, if people vote Greens first and Labor second, and therefore lots of Greens get elected, will that mean the Coalition gets to appoint the Prime Minister, because Labor won't have a majority? If you don't want that, do you need to vote Labor people in? this is crucial and I don't even know how it works!

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Ken Yap
November 23rd, 2007

3 way,

The quick answer is no.

For the lower house, Greens never get sufficient votes in any seats to elect an MP. Your vote will go to Labor or Coalition (and in a few rare seats, a strong Indie) depending on which one you have put first in your lower house vote. It's the lower house that determines which party gets to form government. So if you care about Green issues, put 1 Green with confidence, because the primary vote determines the funding for the Greens, but your vote will still count towards one of the big two due to preferences.

Senators are voted in on quotas, and this one is more complicated, so please read the Getup sticky on the Senate. Please study their preferences and be prepared to vote below the line if you are not satisfied with the way they allocate preferences in your seat (yes, it depends on the electorate too). But note these things:

1. Labor cannot get enough Senate seats this time (because only 40 out of 76 are up for election) to form a majority, so do not be scared by people saying don't give Labor a majority in the Senate.

2. It's also bad to leave the majority with the Coalition because a hostile Senate will block progressive legislation.

3. Therefore the preferred action is to vote in minor party Senators, preferably those that will keep the b******s honest. Hence the unprecedented joint TV campaign by Labor, Greens and Democrats to vote for one of them, any one, as long as it's not Coalition or sympathetic parties, into the Senate. See the Getup campaign page if you want to view the ad and read the explanation.

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Caroline
November 23rd, 2007

This website is completely NOT impartial - very disappointed now.

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Ken Yap
November 23rd, 2007

Caroline,

You're absolutely right, this website is partial to progressive issues.

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dal1302
November 23rd, 2007

Your comment - are anyone aware that no matter how you complete the questionnaire, they only tell you to vote LABOUR. Just how independent are this mob?? Not very I'm guessing.

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Dal
November 23rd, 2007

yes, I agree, this is completely biased towards the Labour Party. Has anyone tried the survey, all answers tell you to vote Labour.

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Ken Yap
November 23rd, 2007

dal1302,

You're referring to howshouldivote.com.au? No, it didn't tell me to vote Labor, and a friend of mine was amused to find that it told him to vote Democrat. It was fun anyway to see the results.

I think one should use the questionnaire result for reflection to see if it matches the beliefs one holds, that would be the responsible way to use it. Speaking for myself I would have rather seen effort put into voter understanding of the system rather than a computer based quiz which might be followed just as mindlessly as propaganda from the political parties.

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Ken Yap
November 23rd, 2007

Dal, we spell it Labor here.

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