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The meaning of 'sorry'


Posted on the campaign blog , February 7th, 2008

On 4 February, Helen Moran, Co-Chair of National Sorry Day Inc spoke with GetUp about the parliament's upcoming apology to the Stolen Generations.




Helen Moran

GetUp: Why is the apology so important?


Helen: It is an opportunity to acknowledge, recognise and take responsibility for the effects and consequences of what happened - an apology is an absolute necessity. Significantly it provides comfort and healing to the Stolen Generations as individuals themselves.


What does the apology mean to you personally Helen?


Well, I think the enormity of the situation we're now in struck me yesterday as I was quietly driving back from the south coast. I was suddenly overwhelmed by a sense of appreciation of what Kevin Rudd is going to do and what that will mean to myself, my family and other Stolen Generations' survivors. It will allow the way forward on a journey toward healing, not only for Indigenous Australians but also for the broader community.


What do you have to say to people who oppose the apology or say that it is meaningless?


When people are aware and the right knowledge is made available to them they will have a more informed understanding. It is also essential that people understand the spill-over into the broader community - that includes not only indigenous but non-indigenous families who were also affected. I would like to reach out to people, ask them to look at this from their heart and soul and to draw on their humanity, to put themselves in the position of the Stolen Generations. Understanding the reality of the emotional, psychological and physical effects on real people is crucial, these issues are trans-generational. We are dealing with the consequences today.


What can Getup! members do?


To help themselves and others to understand the debate is crucial. The word 'sorry' has been misused and misrepresented so much by the past government over the last 10 years that its meaning has become confused. Nowhere in the recommendations of the 'Bringing Them Home' report does it say for any individuals to take responsibility or say sorry. The apology is about enabling a process of healing and reconciliation. The Stolen Generations and the nation as a whole need the apology to be linked to acknowledgement, prevention, rehabilitation, reconstitution and also compensation. This goes way beyond monetary compensation, for example the return of identity, land and essential human rights. Personally I've been fighting a non-responsive Government on the issue for the last 10 years - I've been in fight mode - I don't need to fight anymore or come from a negative space. To create a partnership of support and success is what I want and to assist the government in fulfilling its promise to a comprehensive response to the 'Bringing Them Home' report. I see the apology as the first step towards that. We don't need to be on the other side of the fence to the Government anymore. We can work with them by giving them the opportunity to work with us.


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Jenny J
February 7th, 2008

I am appalled that the press is giving the opposition so much coverage on the puerile statements. It even looks as if they are backing the bastards.

As for disapproving of the name Stolen Generation, as one bright eyed Polly did today, surely that issue is a fait accompli.

Of course the apology must occur and soon and wholeheartedly and not with a grudging mean spirited approach.

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Gill Scott
February 7th, 2008

I liked Helen's comment, 'We don’t need to be on the other side of the fence to the Government any more. We can work with them by giving them the opportunity to work with us.'
Suddenly there is a sense of good people working together -- synergy in action! There is hope yet.

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Ari
February 7th, 2008

Reconciliation Australia has put out some comprehensive information titled "Apology to stolen generations -questions and answers" that I have found very helpful and can be accessed via the internet. This further compliments Helen's comments.

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You Too
February 7th, 2008

Piedmontese Saying: For the 4 days that are granted to us on this earth, can we not be generous?
The third or so of our citizens who don't want to say sorry are about the number generally in our society who simply cannot see themselves in someone else's shoes & think apologising for anything is a sign of weakness.
Leading by example is what all of us who want to be better than we are & better than our past need to do in all our actions & words. Very hard, but giving it a go is what it's all about.

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brent
February 7th, 2008

"The Stolen Generations and the nation as a whole need the apology to be linked to acknowledgement, prevention, rehabilitation, reconstitution and also compensation."

Ah.

There it is. The 'c' word.

I was wondering about that.

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Joyce Fraser
February 7th, 2008

Helen's comments are so helpful. "The apology is about enabling the process of healing and reconciliation" It is about connecting to another human being and moving on together. Let's go back to that spirit which we all felt when we walked over the bridges across Australia with 'Sorry' written high in the sky. We as a country need to live the compassion and care which should be part of our national character and which has been eroded from our lives during the last 11years.

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Liz
February 7th, 2008

We must now work together to bring the changes required for happiness, health and prosperity for all while respecting our cultural differences.

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Ann
February 7th, 2008

It is essential for the Government to say Sorry for the actions by its employees who stole generations of their children from their parents simply because of the colour of their skin. These actions were an abuse of human rights and have caused harm to generations of Aboriginal families.

Some members of the Opposition have pointed out that some children of all races have been taken for other reasons which were set out in the law but this does not mean the government should not say it's sorry for allowing Chief Protectors in the all states and territories to abuse the law with racist assimilationist intentions, hunting down and taking away children who were loved and cared for by their families.

The government needs to work with Aboriginal people to heal the damage caused by the actions of the past and for consultation and co-operation to occur, trust must be built. An apology is central to building trust and acknowledging the harm done in the past.

Ann

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SharmilaFalz
February 7th, 2008

We need to say sorry, to build peace and to bring about justice, to respect our fellow Australian's dignity. How can we go about righting a wrong, if we can't acknlowdgement the hurt and pain caused? And that is what saying sorry is: acknowledging the hurt and pain we have caused and working together. I hope everyone can understand and take this step forward together.

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Frank Pacey
February 7th, 2008

Perhaps some aborigines are entitled to an apology for being stolen by zealous government dogooders, while some parents are entitled to an apology for having their children stolen. But that also applies to some non aborigines.

There is nothing special about aborigines or people of any race for that matter.

I joined Get Up mainly because of the unprovoked evil act of attacking Iraq. I was also angry at our then government's attempted extortion of gas from the East Timorese. I expected Get Up to enthusiastically take up the cause of East Timor.

I agree that David Hicks has yet to have a fair trial. It seems he pleaded guilty in order to get out of Guantanamo Bay. Also the restrictions put on him on release suggest the government has something to hide.

And what about the Indian doctor who was harassed because he happened to give his cousin an unspent prepaid sim card. Would not most of us do that under the same circumstances.

I think there are people more urgently deserving an apology than the aborigines. These are the Iraqis (we did a 911), the East Timorese (we stole), David Hicks (justice denied), the Indian doctor (justice denied) and probably some people I have not even thought of.

I know this comment might make me unpopular but let's get things in perspective.

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Est
February 7th, 2008

Acknowledgement - how far we have come since the last Government.
To all of the mothers and families affected it is an important step
For this Nation to be able to move on - way overdue.
How can our young generation have any respect for others when we can not even acknowledge that the policy of previous Governments was wrong.
As an overseas born Australian who has spent a decade living in remote Australia, having seen the legacy of this policy it's shameful the denial Previous Governments have stood by.
For all that are still wondering regarding the c word, aren't you lucky you will survive longer, have a healthy body, will be able to see your children grow with babies of their own, be employed in meaniful jobs, will experience minimal racism through your life these are not excuses these are the facts.
Feb 13th United, respect and acknowledge ..Bring it on !

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Karen
February 7th, 2008

I don't think Brent read the mythbusters fact sheet. I am doing my bit to share the correct information, Brent. Here it is again, have another read:

Myth 4 - It’ll cost us a fortune
Contrary to popular opinion, a national apology will have no legal impact on the capacity of
members of the Stolen Generations to seek compensation. The ability of members of the
Stolen Generations to pursue legal claims has existed since they were taken and nothing
changes that. As a nation, an apology costs us nothing.

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Anthony
February 7th, 2008

I find it interesting that the words 'sorry' and 'apology' are used interchangeably. I understood that 'sorry' was a word used to express sadness over an action against someone else, an action not necessarily committed by the person saying sorry.

An 'apology' is to say that I am responsible for the hurt and pain you now feel - to me that is a much deeper issue, and as someone has declared, aborigines are not the only one deserving of 'sorry' or of an 'apology'.

Perhaps someone could point me in the right direction regarding the use of these two words and the difference they may or may not make for aborigines in general.

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William
February 7th, 2008

It is long overdue for us to say sorry to the indigenous people of this country. I find it brilliant to see that Kevin Rudd has accepted the challenge to do this. I find this exceptionally genuine on behalf of the government he represents and I can see that the opposition is still in the denial stage as was John Howard who's only sorry feelings along with the majority of the coalition members are that they lost the last election.
The coalition still cannot grasp the fact that the stolen generation covers many nationalities, but that the most that were effected were our rightful owners of this country, our aboriginal members.

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John
February 7th, 2008

What about all the children white and black that were taken from their family by the Government of the day? Do they get a nice big Sorry? Come on people get over it. I would like to live in the past too, not having a to worry about all sorts of things but in this day and age We do not have that option?
As a Nation we have been throwing money at this problem for to long and from the results it has said that it was all so a failure. It is time for a new way of thinking because the old way has got us to where we are today, and that is no longer acceptable

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Richard Ure
February 7th, 2008

It has been necessary for Brendan Nelson and Tony Abbott to tip toe around the apology issue and perform logical handstands when interviewed on this issue. It also seems to be common knowledge that Malcolm Turnbull's stand on the issue may have cost him the leadership (for the time being) of the Liberal Party.

Now that there is not to be a conscience vote when the matter comes before the House, we will not know who is dragging their knuckles within the Liberal Party. But as long as such people exist, it is going to be hard to win over the 38% of citizens who don't see the need to apologise either.

The "advantages" which these laws were administered to achieve were based on race, not facts in each case. This is always a dangerous premise upon which to base public policy. Let's hope we learn from the experience.

And while the pollies are running for cover on this issue, let us not forget the quarantining of social security payments and pensions that the outgoing government recently legislated. In some cases, the pensions of indigenous people who had served in the armed services are also being treated in this way. Aborigines have a long history of serving this country then being treated as aliens. So much so governments don't seem to realise when they doing it anymore! And then they have the hide to say: "it wasn't the current generation".

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Susanna Duffy
February 7th, 2008

Of course we have to say "Sorry". Why is it still being discussed? Because some Australians willfully misunderstand what has happened? Or because some of us lack the necessary wit to grasp reality?

These appalling acts were not committed personally by ourselves, but they were committed in our name and we have reaped the benefit from them.

And I am truly sorry

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Jan Strom
February 7th, 2008

This is a speech I made to some school students in Coffs Harbour to mark Sorry Day in 2003, and I share it with you ...

Healing the past, shaping the future RECONCILIATION

Firstly, I’d like to acknowledge the Gumbayyngirr people, the ancestral owners of this land, this place we all call Coffs Harbour.

I want to share a personal story with you all today. In fact, you could say this was the start of my own Journey of Healing.

In 1992, I was working for Skillshare, working with long term unemployed people and this is when I met a special person, an Aboriginal woman called Wendy.

Funnily enough Wendy and I discovered we (virtually) share a birthday, I was born on July 10, she was born on July 11 and my husband was born on July 12 - all in the same year - 1954; BUT I have to tell any similarity in our life journeys ends there.

One day Wendy came into class and she handed me about 5 or 6 foolscap pages of small handwritten notes to read over lunch. Wendy shared her life story with me and over lunch that Winters day I discovered that Wendy was a stolen child!!!

Wendy was born here in Coffs Harbour and at 18 months of age she was taken from her mother, her extended family and all that she knew and placed into a Home for Aboriginal Children at Kempsey. She was denied her language, her entire culture and she was forced to work in a kitchen and in a laundry while still in primary school, and all while I was going to school, playing games, reading and generally enjoying life!!

I have to say I found this very confronting, in fact I still do!! How could this have happened to a peer of mine, to someone living in the same country as me at exactly the same time?

The pain of Wendy’s story overwhelmed me, I just couldn’t imagine how I would have felt being removed from my family as Wendy had.

When I read or hear stories such as Wendy’s and other stolen children’s stories, my heart is filled with anguish and pain and I want to do something - to try somehow, to make things better.

As a non-indigenous Australian, a citizen of this country, as a mother, as a (former local government) Councillor, in fact as all of the bits that make me who I am, I am committed to helping free ALL Australians, Aboriginal and Non-Aboriginal alike, from the shackles of the past.

It is my belief that only by acknowledging our past and the human tragedy the stolen children policy created, and only by apologising for the pain, angst and suffering that Aboriginal Australians have had to and continue to bear, can ALL Australians truly move forward as one nation.

Now is not a time for denial, justification or stubbornness – rather it is a time for courage, compassion and love.

I believe that each of us can help in the healing in our own way. In fact the Dalai Lama tells us “the more we care for the happiness of others, the greater our own sense of well-being becomes”. It really is that simple!

Over the last few years I have endeavoured to contribute to our nation’s journey of healing. In 2000 my then 14 year old son and I walked across the Sydney Harbour Bridge with 200,000+ people to be part of that powerful symbol of unity and healing.

While working for SCU I was part of the Celebrating Diversity group and am very proud to say I helped make the “Reaching Out” Healing Wall at CHEC a reality in 2001, when more than 150 people of all shapes and sizes, young, old, students, staff, Aboriginal, non-Aboriginal all placed their handprint upon the wall as a symbol of healing.

And as a CHCC Councillor I am (was) a member of Council’s Aboriginal Advisory Committee and continue to work with various members of our Aboriginal Community to try and find ways that Council can help to improve their quality of life.

You know, I see Wendy quite often as our paths often seem to cross and I’m always amazed by her lack of bitterness, her cheerful resilience, her ability to keep moving forward and her capacity to try new things.

I remember a couple of years ago she was trying to set up an Aboriginal Artists Co-operative and she was lamenting how difficult it was “to get them blackfella’s motivated” and I told her that it isn’t always easy to get whitefella’s motivated either!!

But here’s a chance for all us whitefella’s to rise to the occasion, to truly get motivated, for Wendy and all those other stolen children, let’s all make a commitment to growing a sense of national compassion and a true spirit of reconciliation.

Remember, that old adage, “today is indeed the first day of the rest of our lives!!”


You and I can make a difference –
seek not to blame or ignore,
seek rather to acknowledge and move forward.

You and I can make a difference –
with open hearts and open minds
we can help our Aboriginal Australians on their
own journey of healing….





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Phil
February 7th, 2008

I think that a government apology on our behalf, saying sorry for the grief and social dislocation caused can only be a good thing - if it leads to compensation for wrongs done in the past by Government employees, is that really such a bad thing - surely it is fair and we can afford it as a nation.
The main thing is to make "Sorry" meaningful, as the starting point of a process which takes the many talents of our indigenous population and makes them participants in the fruits of "The Lucky Country" - not leaving them to rot in a sociological backwater in so many areas.
It is not going to be easy, but every little step in the right direction is progress....

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I\'m Sorry
February 7th, 2008

I'm sorry that when I grew up (in the 1970's) I was taught a history of Australia that hid the reality of what had happened to Aboriginal people. I'm sorry I had no idea about the restrictions placed upon them and the traumas experienced. I'm disappointed that a third or so of Australian's can't see that "sorry" needs to be said. But, I'm pleased and proud that our leaders are going to say sorry. We can start to "grow up" as a nation by recognising the reality of the damage/trauma done to Aboriginal people.

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Atrax
February 7th, 2008

I am a fairly recent immigrant to Australia having arrived as a teenager in 1970. I was not involved in the events that led to the "stolen generation" and I don't completely understand the why and wherefore of it all.
But, I AM sorry in the same sense that I am sorry for what Hitler did to the Jews, for what the Conquistadores did to the peoples of Central America and for what is happening to the peoples of Palestine and Iraq now. You don't have to be there to understand that much of human suffering was and is avoidable.
In the case of our aboriginal brothers and sisters it was a systematic attempt to remove a culture that was considered unacceptable and unproductive. It didn't work but it did do a great deal of damage and it it did cause much suffering, any mother would identify with having her child removed from her care. Any thinking human should feel empathy for that unnecessary pain.
So yes, I am sorry.

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Lizzie
February 7th, 2008

I am truly sorry it has taken this long for the government to apologise, and I'm looking forward to experiencing my first bout of nationalistic pride.

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JayJay
February 7th, 2008

On Radio National Breakfast this week I heard Tony Abbot say sorry about 5 times. I fell out bed in shock.

To the 36% who still don't get it - no one is holding you personally responsible. Perhaps you have difficulty with abstract thinking. This is a collective apology for wrongs done. And as Tony Abbot himself said, what happened then is recognised as wrong now and should have been recognised as wrong then. The children were removed as a matter of policy because of their racial makeup. I have also heard that before the 1966 referendum that Aboriginal peoples were classified under flora and fauna (I will stand corrected on that).

Also how can the 36% not understand the individual, community and transgenerational impact of riding in and taking children away.

In addition to say that no one alive today is responsible I take issue with that. These were policies that were still being implemented when John Howard was a voting adult. You cannot claim credit for the glories of the nation without accepting the wrongs.

I personally would like to apologise to the stolen generations and for Terra Nullis and for dispossesion.

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makritanya
February 7th, 2008

Thank goodness this is happening at last!!! We can now get on wholeheartedly with fulfilling the other recommendations of the 'Bringing Them Home' report. A great feeling of relief that such an obvious gap in Australia's culture is to be filled and does not have to be debated any more.

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Molly
February 7th, 2008

Your comment
Of course we need to say sorry for what has happened in the past, it is an acknowledgement of past injustices. Former PM Howard had no difficulty saying sorry to the relatives of those killed in the Port Arthur massacre, but he wasn't responsible for it yet could still say sorry. Different story for Aboriginal people, though. It is not something for which present generations are responsible, yet we benefit from the exploitation of Aboriginal people. In talking of the development of Australia, too many ignore the fact that part of the wealth was built on the enslavement of the indigenous people, and later the pathetic wages paid, if they were lucky, or which were ripped off by governments across Australia. One reason Aboriginal people have ended up in difficulties is because of past practices of forcibly removing black people from their traditional lands or, when rich graziers were forced to pay fair dinkum wages, getting driven off their lands by those graziers. No one can underestimate the pain of losing your kids or for the kids losing their family, and the subsequent dysfunction through that grief and pain. The attitude seems to be among some that Aboriginal people don't have the same feelings as whites. Rubbish, we are all the same regardless of our skin colour, with the same ability to love, grieve and suffer. The issue of saying sorry was driven home to me by one Aboriginal leader who reminded me that Aboriginal people were forced to live in concentration camps or transported forcibly to places like Palm Island not from their own choice. More recently, an Aboriginal woman commented that in their family they had had to cope with an emotionally distant mother who herself had been one of the Stolen Generations and who lived in fear of her own kids being forcibly removed. And as for this being done for the good of the children, most were treated as cheap labour, with many being physically and sexually abused. The pikes, double twists and somersaults of the Federal Opposition are disgusting. Thank god we finally have a Federal Government which has the grace to apologise and give us pride in our country again.

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Merilee
February 7th, 2008

We all know how good it feels when someone says sorry when we have been hurt. It's a simple human thing, and it clears so much so quickly. Without acknowledgment that harm was done, the harm still goes on, and makes it much harder for us to heal. That goes for both sides of the damage done. Bring on the Sorry! At last!

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Mark
February 7th, 2008

I would like to know who is going to say sorry to me and others in my situation.
Born in England my mother died age 19. The Government took me and my brother away from my Dad and adopted my brother back into the family and gave me to a strange family.
I was brought to Australia with my new adoptive parents and was beaten and molested all my young life until the age of 14 where I said enough is enough. I made it stop by running away and getting into trouble and finally being locked up in institutions. At least he couldn't get me in there.
My life was never the life it should have been. I had massive potential in the sporting arena unfortunately a knee injury stopped that.
I've written letters to the liberal government, labour government, both state and federal. No-One wants to help me go back to England to meet all my REAL FAMILY. I even wrote many letters to the Queen of England and the British Government. No-One wants to help me or even know me.

SO WHO'S GOING TO SAY SORRY TO ME. I WAS STOLEN AND LEFT OUT TO DRY!

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Wendy
February 7th, 2008

Can we just get on with it! Its high time!!
We're sorry it happened and understand that the suffering of the stolen generations needs to be formally acknowledged as a part of Australia's history.

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Xavier Xenophobe
February 7th, 2008

Bugger it!!I'm NOT sorry for something that was done, with the best of intentions, no matter how misguided in hindsight.
I worked with Abos before they got the right to vote, booze, and be counted in the census.They may not have had a great disposable income, and few "rights"but most "Station Blacks"were well fed and clothed, and the kids were a great deal more healthy than they are now.A lot were given a much better start in life than they get now, but this is a most unpopular suggestion, and certainly does not go down well with those who are benifitting from the burgeoning "Aboriginal Industry".
Get Up should Wake Up!!!

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Richard
February 7th, 2008

I still believe it is all about MONEY !!!
What about those who were saved, rescued and received a BETTER life than their families would have provided??

Our 'WHITE' community, Governments etc have provided endless support, welfare etc for these people, well in excess of the majority of the population, only to be misappropriated, wasted and ripped-off by their own people on the pretence of self administration.

I'm sorry that you do-gooders don't see the dangers involved. John Howard fought hard to keep things in perspective and look what you did to him.

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jmazz
February 7th, 2008

I believe that Mr Howard had already said "Sorry" but this was not enough, an "Apology" seems to be required.
Being sorry does not imply that you accept responsibility whereas an apology implies you were responsible.
Once the Australian Government formally gives an apology then the flood gates of compensation claims can be expected.
I seem to remember Mr Rudd already recently fighting off a claim for compensation.

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Catharine Courtney
February 7th, 2008

I just want to register my wholehearted support for the saying of sorry and while I appreciate that as Helen says the Report on the stolen generation did not ask for me as an individual to say sorry I am still aware that as a white woman I grew up in a culture that taught me to be racist that told me history as told by the winners and until I met some indigenous people I had little understanding of their story and was full of predjudice and I just want us to do much much better in righting the wrongs SO FROM THIS INDIVIDUAL SORRY SORRY PLEASE FORGIVE

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Lynne
February 7th, 2008

I want to say I agree with the saying Sorry to these people. They have lost so much of their identity. I wonder how we would feel if this had happened to us. Showing compassion to them is very important.

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Camille
February 7th, 2008

I am a non indigenous Australian who fully supports reconciliation, peace, healing and saying SORRY. I am 16 years old, and I am so proud that one day, I will be able to tell my children and grandchildren that "when I was a young girl" the government at the time said SORRY. This will surely go down in history and I couldn't be more happier.

All my respect, xoxo

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ALICE!
February 7th, 2008

'Xavier Xenophobe's' comments should surely be discredited and ignored because of his name...?

appologising to Aboiginies is a fantastic idea if we ever truely want to feel that Australia is that 'lucky' country were equality reigns. a simple fund could help with compensation (as it has in Tasmainia, Canada) but of course there would be limitations to this.

thank goodness for the Federal Government in having the strength, humanity, compassion to appologise not for their wrong actions but the wrong actions of the past.

its about time!

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Rosemary
February 7th, 2008

South Africa and Canada have a Truth & Reconciliation Commission. And Australia should have said "Sorry" a long time ago.

Some people don't seem to understand that prior to 1966 our indigenous people were regarded as fauna. Non human. And as such were not entitled to proper wages or conditions. And many of their children were aken off them and raised in institutions to make them into better station hands or domestic servants, again at no wages. To any one who thinks taking people's shildren away and raising them to be slaves is OK, just try a little reverse psychology. As in would you accept your children being taken away from you because the powers that be don't like the way you are raising them and also that they have a use for those children as slave labour when trained in a concentration camp style institution.

THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH MAY BE CONSIDERED IRRELEVANT & IT OR THIS QUALIFICATION SHOULD BE DELETED.

And the handling of children's futures still isn't very good. I know of two part indigenous brothers being raised in foster care because the parents for some reason can't raise them. Initially these boys were place in towns 120 km apart. One foster mother objected and said they were brothers and should live together and succeeded in getting the second child. Then a couple of years later she found that the people had a third son and that he had been placed 400 km away from the two already in foster care. This family was willing to have the other brother to keep them all together, but were never consulted. They took the matter before a court but failed to get the third chIld into their care.

Some people still have the idea that indigenous people on the stations had a good life. Years ago an elderly lady was trying to impress me that this was where they should be left and that they shouldn't get wages for the work they did. I said to her, that white haired lady with her feet in the dust and with flies walking on her face sitting on the log beside the bark shelter looks to be your age. Would that be good enough for you in your old age? She gave me an icy look and remained unconvinced.

My point here is that it is impossible for many people to accept other races as their equals. And they seem to have no empathy for the indigenous people who simply robbed of their land by colonisation. These people explaion it away by saying "they" weren't doing anything with the land. Meaning of course making money from it. Which brings us to the point of compensation. These people who will not agree to say sorry also do not want to pay compensation. If someone came and stole their goods or their land they would want compensation.

So do not worry about the 38% of people who are unconvinced, the majority is in favour. The Rudd government making a formal apology is a step forward that will allow the reconciliation process to advance.

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Tao
February 7th, 2008

Wonderful ..I hope it's never too late to apologize..& never too late to forgive...the world needs a lot more of both..but it must be meant, not merely easy made utterances!

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Rob
February 7th, 2008


In your email you state
"You see, today GetUp released a poll* conducted by an independent pollster which found that a worrying 36% of Australians still disagree with the decision to say 'sorry'".

Actually the 36% have a right to their opinion as we have a right to ours. To take a postion that it is "worrring" that 36% of Australans do not share our opinion is in itself a concern because that leads to a position where you think they are wrong and you are right. History has shown that attitude leads to a position where one group impose their opinion on others. I do not believe that is a great way to go.

Lets have democracy, open debate and respect for others including their opinions even if you disagree with them

Rob

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Quills
February 7th, 2008

Frank Pacey's concerned that he might be unpopular with his views that there is nothing special about Aborigines and although others have suffered injustices, his view that Aborigines as a group haven't. I urge Frank to dig a bit deeper into the history of this country since 1788 - he has simply displayed his lack of knowledge. Australia has been founded on many great injustices to Aboriginal people. From the land grabs of the government and squatters to the impact on just about every aspect of life - health, wealth and culture let alone the regular abuses and violence Aboriginal people have suffered over the last few centuries. If an apology isn't due now, when does he suggest it be done - in another 220 years?

There is something special about all races, cultures, nations and people - we all deserve respect and dignity and to treat others equally. Our challenge is to learn to live with this wonderful diversity and work through differences peacefully.

Frank may not have learned about tbese things when he was at school - I didn't. I've had to dig it up and listen and learn and be challenged of my views along with many others. There's lots of resources out there.

I've heard many Aboriginal people generously share their stories in the hope that the majority of non-Aboriginal people they live with will eventually understand the generational impacts and change their attitudes so we can work together for a better future. As Helen says "I don’t need to fight any more or come from a negative space. To create a partnership of support and success is what I want" Until we acknowledge the hurts, we can't move forward and will remain a diminished nation.

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Phoebe
February 7th, 2008

I'm horrified to hear that over a third of Australians disagree with saying sorry! I guess it must be because of the way it was all portrayed while they were being brought up and it's set in their minds that nothing wrong was done. I'm glad to say that in school now days when we learn about Australian history they don't leave out the graphic and horrifying things like the mile creek massacre.

One of the things that really gets to me the most when i think about it is how in my mind i always relate Aboriginal People to the Australian outback and then when i read things about Captain Arthur Philip arriving in Stingray/Botany Bay there are always parts about their encounters with Aborigines. So not only did we (i say we because, although i'm 16 and wasn't around in the heat of it, i have benefited from the actions of our government and am living in a house on land that would have originally been stolen from an Aboriginal Tribe) steal and abuse their children, rape their women, murder thousands and use them as slaves/really cheap labour, we ripped them out of their homes and dumped them in the desert with no hope of fitting into our society. We showed them a new way of life that we have stopped them from having so now they're stuck without their culture and without ours, families torn apart and the emotional scars still affecting the new generations. Anything that you may think is wrong with Aborigines today is our fault, they were perfectly fine before we all came to Australia and claimed it as our own.

I am sorry

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Yvette
February 7th, 2008

In response to earlier comment re democracy to all have our own opinions ... I understand what you are referring to in regards to imposing opinions ... however, I think there is a difference if those opinions merely exist due to lack of awareness and respect for basic human rights issues. The argument would then be, what are the reasons for not saying sorry ?
I think this campaign is about creating awareness for people to make a well informed decision rather than being a coercive one.

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bluceree201
February 7th, 2008

Why should I apologize?
my ancestors weren't responsible for this, even if they were why the hell should I apologize?

with respect to other races etc. I think it is unfair to apologize on the behalf of the nation, when virtually no one alive today is responsible for these events.

I didn't force indigenous Australians to such cruel things,
its like me punching someone in the face and then someone asking for an apology from his brother.

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Chris
February 7th, 2008

36 percent of Australians need to have the sorry myths busted. They need to understand how important this word is for aboriginal Australians. Shame on Howard for ignoring these people for so long.

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Sue
February 7th, 2008

I can not believe the people who find an apology difficult to make. The Liberal party is beyond belief! Why is money such an issue for people?

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ElJayel
February 7th, 2008

In point form, to save time:

My family, about five generations ago, was evicted from their land by an invading force. I do not believe that I have any right for compensation.

Aboriginals have been living in Australia longer than my ancestors, but all of us arrived here from somewhere else. Personally, I have been living here longer than most Aboriginals.

I am offended by the term 'indigenous Australians', implying as it does a deeper love of, and greater care for, this land. Aboriginals changed the continent when they arrived, and it is being changed again.

I am sorry for any families which were disrupted by having children forcibly removed.

My conclusions: I am sorry that Aboriginals were treated badly in the past. I want them, now, have the same opportunities as any other Australian to participate in our society - and I recognise that this may not be the case, so action is needed on this issue.

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Alison Baker
February 7th, 2008

I hate the way aboriginal people were treated in the past, but also the way young girls of my generation were made to feel that giving up their babies was the "right" thing to do. I am 54 and i have friends who still cry at the mention of those babies given away.
Our society really did think they were doing the right thing. Do we say sorry to these girls as well and any other sector of our community that was treated unjustly in the past.
If people in Europe were to be expected to say sorry for all the injustices done to other races, tribes throughout their history of conquering and invading the list would go on forever.

We should just enjoy each other and hopefully by the time my generation disappears, the younger generation will be blind as to whether you are aboriginal, aussie or any other nationality.

I would not deliberately harm any one and find it offensive that i am expected to say sorry for something i would never do or agree to

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Nikki
February 7th, 2008

Thank you Helen. I came from an abusive family and to have heard the words 'Sorry' would have made my pathway to recovery alot quicker. Instead I had to plough my own journey to understanding. That acknowledgement would have been so soothing to my soul. I shall rejoice for all who need to hear it on the day.

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Dazz
February 7th, 2008

I am for acknowledging our fellow Indigenous aussies who, when they were only kids, were torn from their family home to be placed into an institutional Home as it was said that "it was for the best for them'." How wrong were they! I relate to your deep and unspeakable sorrow being torn from your roots!

Let's also spare a thought for just a moment for what I once heard us being called - the "Silence Stolen Generations", us aussie kids with disabilities between 1940's and up until the mid 1980's being torn away from our families and placed/hidden into institutional Homes as it was said that "it was for the best for them'." too. How wrong were they! We are hurting too...

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Marian Birchmore
February 7th, 2008

I am truely sorry for the hurt that has been inflicted upon the aboriginal people of Australia.
Some was done with good intent, some with malice; whichever, the hurt was done, and I am sorry.
Marian

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Kinan
February 7th, 2008

"Sorry" means, that we collectively have evolved to the point of recognising, the need to acknowledge where wrong was done, to the original inhabitants of this land, that were unwillingly disturbed from their once-harmonious lifestyle. It means, that we are endevouring to bridge the gap, heal the past, and move forward into a sense of oneness, respect and co-operation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. This gesture is just one of many important shifts in awareness that our culture needs to make in order to return to wholeness, integrity, truth, beauty and love.

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Dean
February 7th, 2008

I am not only sorry but ashamed, and the shame grows when I see the denial. To hear of a child in 1860 being gunned down near Ipswich QLD, for being black, even though he was adopted, dressed in european clothing and obviously in the care of white people, just because some white man was on a mission of vengeance, who showed no shame, no empathy, while killing that boy, knowing he would not be punished, fills me with anger, astonishment, tears and shame. Just one story, but that story stays with me. Why is it convenient for people who claim to be Christian, to ignore the Biblic words about the sins of their fathers? Each and every one of us, profit each day of our lives from living in Australia. Do we owe them a living, a life? Well of course we bloody well do.

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bluceree201
February 7th, 2008

I didn't gun down a little boy, and neither did my ancestors.

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vicki
February 7th, 2008

unless we can demonstrate our willingness to feel/acknowledge the pain of others we can never consider ourselves anything but a single cell amoeba - the point is not that we as a generation have nothing to do with the past, the point is that we as a generation have everything to do with the future and if we want a united country this is the way forward. Hand in hand we should be ................. .

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yvre
February 7th, 2008

of course I want to be part of saying sorry, and indeed already have. But why desecrate such a beautiful word as "myth" ,totally ignoring its true meaning? Myths and stories are intrinsic to and part of the heritage of the indigenous cultures which have been so long dishonoured - this silly name "myth-busters"is regrettable!

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jean
February 7th, 2008

My forebears were in Tasmania, and part of the rural community at the time of "The Black Drive". I don't know that they took part, but I have always been concerned that someone from my family was part of that attempt to wipe out the Tasmanian tribes. I do want our country to say sorry for our forebears' ignorance and lack of humanity, and I say it myself.

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Jared
February 7th, 2008

I think it would be to the benefit of the nation and the world if our Government apologizes for a failure to recognize the importance of the family in its previous policies. It's a natural expectation that something should be said against it and to ensure that similar devastating policies for families and individuals are never again employed. I am sorry for the people who suffered grief, abandonment, exclusion and so many other unhappy emotions. It's hard enough growing up as a kid and adolescent as it is, I can't imagine how difficult it would have been without my family.
I would hope something is also promised to the people for their suffering, at the very least a home each to provide a place where they can fell security and stability for themselves and their families. I imagine it would have been like a constant war for many of those people and all from the result of a social experiment that did not address the basic human rights outlined under the International Agenda of Human Rights.

Best wishes for your Future.
Jared

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janny
February 7th, 2008

For the person who was stolen(from England) and left out to dry, I do feel sorry for you. But do you know what, this is not a competition but a sign of respect and an example to the next generation. But they could show us a thing or two by the example of the sixteen year old who has written in. Sorry for injustices.

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Kirsty
February 7th, 2008

I am a primary schol teacher working in a disadvantaged school in the inner southern suburbs of Adelaide. The amazingly committed and dedicated staff in our school work together with the children to live by a simple line: Love and Courage overcome Fear and Anger. Thank you Kevin et al for showing Love and Courage and boo to the Liberals who allowed fear and anger to overcome their sense of love and courage.

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Sarah
February 7th, 2008

Bluceree201, I can understand what you are saying, however, I disagree with your example of "it's like me punching someone in the face and then someone asking for an apology from my brother." I'd argue that it's a little more complex than that.
It's more like if your relatives were german people who lived in Germany during WWII, and then 50 years later, Jewish people asking that the current government recognise that the government-at-the-time's decisions were wrong, regardless of whether or not your relatives or you were involved personally. The fact is that the majority of the population at the time went along with the government's decision. An extreme example perhaps, but the point is that it's not a personal thing - it's not you apologising for something you or a relative has done, it's your government apologising to a subset of the population for the decisions of a past government and recognising that it wants to help fix the problems that are ongoing as a result.

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bluceree201
February 7th, 2008

I'd like to know why people are saying Labour party are better than Liberal.......all politicians are the same, they lie, they cover bullshit, and sometimes they do something right, I hope Kevin Rudd does what he says, because if he does he will be very popular.

P.S.

I understand the stance of this "sorry" thing, but I don't know if using that word makes it any better.

no matter who you are black white, yellow, brown green purple, WE are all racist, to a certain extent and we cannot help that, it is only when I see people who are ignorant of this fact, when I get aggravated, there are people both sides of color and race that fit in these areas, reverse discrimination is just as bad.

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Rowena
February 7th, 2008

There seems to be a great divide in how people are able to comprehend the notion of an apology to indigenous australia for things that happened some time ago. Well - not that it wasn't government practice to remove children from their families in more recent history. But I digress...

The issue that I would like to raise is around some peoples inability to take their own ego and self-defensive patterns out of the equation. This is not a time to be stuck on yourself or defending your long lost ancestors - realistically how do you know if they were or were not respectful towards aboriginal people?

The fact remains that the stolen generation is a massive scar and has affected many many people. And like the example someone else gave, an apology from the australian government and from individuals who are sorry that this has been inflicted on many generations is akin to an apology from a german government post-holocaust and is *entirely appropriate*.

This is the australia that I want to be part of. One that is brave enough, and decent enough to at least take the steps to bridge the gaps that exist. And a sorry doesn't make up for everything that happened, and I imagine would mean different things to those who have been affected, but at the very least it's an acknowledgement. And a setting of the agenda to pick up the pace.

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David Harris
February 7th, 2008

I would like to say that I am sorry because aborigine children were forcefully removed from their families purely because of their race.
The fact that this may have had a beneficial effect on individual children as some commentators and politicians argue is irrelevant. Why not remove all Australian born children as some of them have lousy parents?
It is impossible to assess the repercussions of these actions on the 'stolen' children and their relations. However we cannot argue that we are all equal now and they should just get on with their lives because we are all significantly influenced by our past experiences, especially as children.
Surely Australia can give a near unanimous, sincere, unconditional'Sorry'. Seize the day!

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eliza
February 7th, 2008

John Howard long abused the issue of an apology to the stolen generations by framing it in terms of "I am not individually responsible". No, John Howard is not individually responsible... it was the Australian State that enaacted and implemented the policies, and thus is RESPONSIBLE. John Howard was the Prime Minister of this Australian State (regretably) for 11 years, IN HIS ROLE AS PM he acted on behalf of the Australian State and his policies and actions have consequences on the future and reflect on the past. I think this is one thing that has really confused this conversation and has led to 36% of people disagreeing with the apology.

Aside from that, I think it is important for people to understand what these policies were really about. The act of taking indigenous children from their families, communities was a deliberate policy to erase from these children (they were all so-called "half-breeds") indigenous culture - languages, family ties, cultural practices. It was expected that the "full breed" Aboriginals would naturally die out, and thus that the "half breed" Aboriginals should become assimilated (i.e. become white in every sense except skin colour - although it was thought that skin colour would also follow).
This - the deliberate attempt to erase a culture or cultures - is defined as GENOCIDE by the United Nations. No, it is not the genocide of killing people with shotguns, it is a different kind of genocide, but the end product is the same.

As for compensation... It seems to me that the wrongs perpetrated on the land that is now called Australia are so vast that it will be difficult for this society to ever "right" them. I am happy that the government is finally making an apology - and i hope that the distortion by the previous government has not nullified the importance of the apology for Indigenous Australians. I think after so long of white people making decisions for indigenous people... it's time for non-indiegnous people to be led by indigenous people in these matters.
What is needed? A treaty? compensation?
I would be happy with any measure that is supported by the Indigenous community.
For those who are scared by the money issue (?!) maybe you should think about how much is currently being spent on the war machine!!!

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Katie
February 7th, 2008

bluceree said

<>

It's probably fair to say this is the most common reason people are against saying "sorry."

I don't agree with it, but I still admire the simplicity of Rudd's statement that he will not be apologizing on behalf of the people of Australia, but on behalf of the GOVERNMENT of Australia.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23125258-29277,00.html

This leaves the Australian population a bit of room to say or not say "sorry" in their hearts or out loud.

Me? I DO personally apologise, because I recognise that a substantial amount of what wealth I have as an Australian came at the cost of the Indigenous people. My opportunities, my education, my family's middle class ease, was built on land and from resources that were stolen, not bought.

I don't see it as apologising for something someone else did. It's more like accepting stolen goods. I may not be able to give those things (education / opportunities) back, but I sure can acknowledge what happened and advocate for restitution.

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Katie
February 7th, 2008

Oops, that quote was cut for some reason. I was responding to bluceree's statement:

- with respect to other races etc. I think it is unfair to apologize on the behalf of the nation, when virtually no one alive today is responsible for these events. -

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Joan Jones
February 7th, 2008

I believe our apology should be to all Australians who are descendents of the original dwellers of this nation, who had their country and their way of life stolen from them by the British Government - originally as a way of ridding it of their overwhelming prison population - and then of expanding their empire by sending out free settlers to take up the land.
All, with no recognition or consideration of the people who were already living here who they overwhelmed with their superior strength.
Finally their attempt to destroy the culture of these people who had occupied this land for so long, by stealing their children in an attempt to integrate them into the customs of these invaders and eventually destroy all trace of them.

What an enormous amount to be sorry for - and how could any of us have any hesitation in saying that small word - SORRY

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Bob Crombie
February 7th, 2008

An annoying point in the prevarication by the opposition is the notion that what was done was done by good people with good intentions - good people who came from 'the church'.

It was said long ago by Edmund Burke that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil was for good men to do nothing; what are we to make of this when evil has certainly prevailed, ostensibly because so-called good men did the wrong thing?

If some other outcome was anticipated, then what was done was certainly the wrong way to go about achieving that desired end. If some other outcome was intended, then we must believe that what resulted was the side-effect of action taken with that other intent in mind. In any other event, this would certainly be a justifiable cause for an apology - sorry, but we didn't mean that to happen! All of us could relate to situations such as this - Whoops! That wasn't supposed to happen - sooorrrrryyyy! And let's move on. If compensation is required for that accidental harm, then it's paid and it's back down to business. Isn't that the way we all understand the problem of human fallibility? We are prone to making mistakes, and we pay for those mistakes - we have all paid at some time.

Which means that the reason given for opposing is actually a sound and valid reason for saying sorry - IN ANY OTHER EVENT!!

So why is this so different?

The problem with this appears to be that no-one is prepared to say what that 'other intent' was - for the actions taken by those so-called 'good men'....and so we are left with this mish-mash of a debate. Why does it need to be resolved? Because, if we fail to establish the facts and errors, we are left vulnerable as a society to the repeat of such a policy debacle.

In the 21st century, we all have the right to expect better of those whom we deem to be 'good people' in charge of policy - and we have a right to expect that when those folk make mistakes that impact so heavily on the lives of the governed they will at the very least make an apology. Within the Constitution, the power of government is vested in the office of Parliament, not the person or persons, and a blunder of such immense proportion must surely warrant an apology of formal nature from Parliament as the responsible institution. Establish the nature of the errors to ensure there are no repeats, make adjustments and move on.

Australia was 'born modern', which is to say that Australia was constituted as a nation under a secular government. That we should believe that 'the church' was free to act autonomously in the separation of human families is to believe a lie; it is quite bizarre. It is clear that the removals were sanctioned by government policy - the government of a nation state has the monopoly on the force required; it is the very definition of nation state.

If church ideology was the basis of policy, then we should be wary of such policy and the dangers of repeating the blunder.

If there really was some other intent out of which this mess is just a side-effect, then let's hear it. If government was failing it's secular responsibilities, then the debacle resulting should be a clear signal for churches to be placed at a much longer arm's length than has been the case. We get agitated when high profile individuals 'capture' politicians; why not be agitated about church groups doing the same thing? We get agitated about family breakups that are caused by whacky sects; we would surely get uptight if a Muslim church started removing children; why did it not seem strange for Christian church groups to be doing it?

There is a risk to democracy when organisations who are not representational carry out government administration. Mainstream Christian churches currently engage in a number of policy administration areas, and provide input to policy decisions in those areas. 'Good' people have decided that this is a 'good' way for worthy groups to generate funds for their 'good' works - but who is determining the 'good' for ALL of us? ALL of us are subject to these policies, but I don't recall voting for a church group or even voting as to whether we would determine who is good. If one of these groups does you harm, inadvertantly of course, who will you see about compensation - the church or the government?

This sorry business requires a reconciliation of fact with action to be taken, in order that the whole sorry business does not happen again - in your back yard.

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Ashley
February 7th, 2008

well said Sarah.

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geekay
February 8th, 2008

It still astounds me that there is not one, single article from the "bleeding hearts" side that can extract one positive comment about the white race..not one. This is surely a sign of either bias or bigotry. Little wonder a third of Aussies in a recent poll have serious reservations about the whole "sorry" debacle when there is no balance.

To attempt to add some balance:

Is there data on :

1) What was the life expectancy of indigenous persons at the time or near, to European settlement, eg, 1770-ish..?

2) Similarly, how did this compare with non-indigenous persons at that time ?

3) Has there been a change, up or down, of indigenous life expectancy since European settlement..?

If we have this information then we can more precisely identify factors that may have affected both white and black life expectancies and why there may be a 17 year "gap".

If the "gap" is related to lifestyle or other causal factors then we can target this. If it is genetic, we need to work on that a bit more.

Any public health researchers out there who can help..?

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Paula
February 8th, 2008

I look forward to the day I read in the history books that "the Australian Government said 'sorry' to its' indigenous race in 2008". It will be read by individuals world wide and noted as the just thing to do. It will stand alongside the apologies of other Governments who have said the same many years ago e.g. Canada, where the British Queen also said sorry. It's time and I look forward to a new beginning for all Australians.

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Douglas Chalmers
February 8th, 2008

Community Viewpoint - That Kevin Rudd

Looking at the picture on the front page of the NT government website, it is obviously a place seen as a carefree happy holiday hunting ground for single young white Australians and little else http://nt.gov.au/

Nevertheless, indigenous MLA Marion Scrymgour and others have succeeded in imposing a "roadmap" upon the federal Labor government in the same week that the G77 succeeded in imposing a roadmap on the USA for years to come regarding climate change at the Bali conference. That she has done so is the direct result of having firmly stood up to the Labor party system and rebuked the intervention despite Rudd's approval of it.

But, it is Rachel Willika's Christmas (http://womenforwik.org/) that I really want to say something about. "To make our kids happy" is what family life is all about. It isn't done by failing to support people in communities anywhere. It isn't done by punishing people for the results of the bad management of governments. It isn't done by deceitfully devising a way of keeping them in perpetual poverty and helplessness as an excuse to finally steal their remaining land.

Eva Valley, a remote community which can be cut off from the world for months at a time in the Top End wet season is no place to be without a store. Not having reasonable transport through the rest of the year makes it difficult to pack in supplies. No phone, no TV, no internet and only a 2-way radio (or a satellite phone) to occasionally communicate with the nearest town is a very restricted lifestyle in the so-called 21st century.

"I think they won't let us" have these things is going to sound rather different "come the revolution" (see media article, The Age, 23rd Dec.). It is a revolution starting in the hearts and minds of all right-thinking people this Christmas. Instead of a time of joy, it is a time of frustration and deprivation for many. It now permeates through the towns and suburbs of unhappy white Australia too.

Instead of everyone being aboard a "ship" that is going nowhere, we all now need to realise that the end for this country will come as soon as the last shipment of coal or iron ore or uranium is finally mined - or the last tree is chopped down. Kicking indigenous people off their land won't make much difference to how long it lasts. When the last load extracted by the cargo-cult worshippers is finally ready, the desperate scramble by white people to go back where they came from will be what we then see before the last ship finally leaves.

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whyfore
February 8th, 2008

Read 'The Electronic Whorehouse' by Paul Sheehan
Paragraph "The gravest accusation"

I do not agree with saying sorry -

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Bob Crombie
February 8th, 2008

An interesting and insightfully incisive set of questions geeky. I'm not sure what a sporting event has to do with the discussion and I've no factual information about a white race - perhaps something to do with the much-touted race-to-the-bottom.
In the interest of balance:
1) Around 1770, the researcher, Joseph Banks, was making some outstanding errors of analysis regarding the Indigenous people he observed around the coast of what became New South Wales - but then he was a botanist not an anthropologist. Arthur Phillip, on arrival in 1788, was somewhat confused by the mismatch between Banks' assertions and the reality he was to confront at Sydney Cove. Whatever the life expectancy had been, it was quickly shortened by the introduction of bacteria that arrived with the first fleet, and the population of Sydney Cove was decimated in short order.
2)The life expectancy of first fleet 'colonists' was somewhat assymetric. Given that the deportees from England had committed such heinous crimes as stealing a loaf of bread to avoid starving to death, one would have to assume that their lot at home was somewhat short-lived. It is therefore likely that the Indigenous life expectancy at around "1770-ish" was significantly higher than many of the residents of England. The "gentry" arriving in the colony would have had a different basis of life expectancy of course. Nonetheless, infant morbidity was a problem across the globe and large families comprised the strategy for familial survival - out of twelve children, three could reasonably be expected to survive - unless an epidemic struck.
3) There has been an improvement across-the-board for human beings with the advent over time (two centuries) of new medicines and health technology (most having their genesis in Eastern and Middle-Eastern societies) but the improvements have been assymetric in overall effect due to the experience of different forms of marginalisation - ethnic discrimination is just one of these forms.

I'm a little at odds as to how how this basic education, available to primary school children, will feed into the matter of the stolen generation or what you mean by targeting. On the matter of genetics, it is interesting to contemplate that in 1770, my ancestors were struggling with the Scottish winter and marginalisation by the English Monarchy, but a good few thousand years earlier, you and I shared an ancestor with the Australian Aborigines in what is now the Kalahari area of Africa - and that ancestor was black! Since that group of humans (around 2,000 strong)represented the entirety of the human race at that time, it follows that the whiteness of skin so prevalent now in European countries is a genetic mutation - seemingly something to do with the relationship between the genes responsible for melanin and the prevailing climatic conditions. As several earlier migrations of dark-skinned people proved, dark skins cannot survive the extreme winters far from the Equator.

You know that you can get all this from Google? And you'll no doubt be delighted to know that the precise reasons for the morbidity gap are understood. That's research for you - take a few years off and they find out all sorts of stuff while your back's turned.

Unfortunately for Australia's Aboriginal people, their pre-1788 lifestyle was so healthy that they had no exposure to the germs brought by the first fleet, and therefore no immunity to the diseases that thrived in the less-than-fastidious life conditions of the English migrants. The English do not have a long history of association with the bath tub. But say this for them, once they get onto a good thing, they don't let go....is that positive comment enough? Good luck with your search for real knowledge - hope you catch up.

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Bob Crombie
February 8th, 2008

One should bow before Sheehan's extensive knowledge of whorehouses (apologies to William Wilberforce)

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R.R.U.U.D.D.D.
February 8th, 2008

R = Recognise
R = Respect
U = Understand
U = Unity
D = Diligence
D = Degredation
D = Dignity

* If we Can Not give back Their Home Land...Then atleast...Return the Choice of Right..in re-naming This Country & or/Holding High A Proud Nation Flag.

* I Love Australia & NO DISRESPECT INTENDED...But..I can not & never will celebrate our Australia Day in the True meaning or sense, so to speak.
Go on all you want about.."We have done this & We have done that",BUT the Fact remains..THIS Island/Country Land was NOT Discovered,(by any definition of the word),It was "STOLEN".
eg: When ever I take my children shopping & they excitedly say," Mum, mum, look what I found!", my reply is, "No Way & put it right back, because it wasn't lost or missing in the first place".

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R.R.U.U.D.D.D.
February 8th, 2008

R = Recognise
R = Respect
U = Understand
U = Unity
D = Diligence
D = Degredation
D = Dignity

* If we Can Not give back Their Home Land...Then atleast...Return the Choice of Right..in re-naming This Country & or/Holding High A Proud Nation Flag.

* I Love Australia & NO DISRESPECT INTENDED...But..I can not & never will celebrate our Australia Day in the True meaning or sense, so to speak.
Go on all you want about.."We have done this & We have done that",BUT the Fact remains..THIS Island/Country Land was NOT Discovered,(by any definition of the word),It was "STOLEN".
eg: When ever I take my children shopping & they excitedly say," Mum, mum, look what I found!", my reply is, "No Way & put it right back, because it wasn't lost or missing in the first place".

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R.R.U.U.D.D.D.
February 8th, 2008

R = Recognise
R = Respect
U = Understand
U = Unity
D = Diligence
D = Degredation
D = Dignity

* If we Can Not give back Their Home Land...Then atleast...Return the Choice of Right..in re-naming This Country & or/Holding High A Proud Nation Flag.

* I Love Australia & NO DISRESPECT INTENDED...But..I can not & never will celebrate our Australia Day in the True meaning or sense, so to speak.
Go on all you want about.."We have done this & We have done that",BUT the Fact remains..THIS Island/Country Land was NOT Discovered,(by any definition of the word),It was "STOLEN".
eg: When ever I take my children shopping & they excitedly say," Mum, mum, look what I found!", my reply is, "No Way & put it right back, because it wasn't lost or missing in the first place".

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Bravo
February 8th, 2008

Your comment worked along side men and women from the stolen generation in western NSW for a long time, with their children and their grandchildren. What these people were put through is an absolute disgrace and we should be nothing short of an apology. My parents survived the holocaust and that was nothing short of disgust and no one said sorry to them. Here we have the opportunity to rectify the mistakes made a long time ago and move on together as a nation. This is one of the most worthwhile unifications in our Australian history. Everyone in this country should be fighting together and come together at this much needed time and hopefully nothing like this will ever happen again. Much love and support.

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handbagdeb
February 8th, 2008

I'm a white Australian, a product of the Ten Pound poms. I, more than many white Australians, could say "Well that has nothing to do with me". I just don't find that a legitimate response.
I live in London now, and it was partly the embarrassement and shame I felt for my country and the Howard Government that has kept me away. I hope Rudd gets it right.
For me, it is "What our mob did to your mob", and it doesn't matter when it happened-it is still happening. The heritage of empire, as unpleasant as it is, has come home to roost all over the world-which includes Ireland (speak to a number English people about "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" and you will know what I am getting at-many were outraged for exactly for the "it wasn't me, so whey are they being so mean?" mentality).
We know (or should know) that the consequences of white settlement has covered every one of the five United Nations definitions of genocide-and to be guilty of that, we only have to cover one of them-we have managed to tick them all.
I teach, and when there is an incident, deliberate or accidental, I tell them that only if you say you are sorry, can the person you hurt forgive you and tell you its ok. It brings peace to both parties.
The German government apologised to the Jewish community; Nelson Mandela, when speaking at Melbourne, spoke beautifully, gently, but pointedly about how an open wound needs to heal, and we cannot let it heal without tending to it, which is the job of all of us. I see this as a non-debate. We need to stop looking at the way our own perspective views this issue in our bitee-size conceptions of time. We are also part of a tribe and have lived on the backs of other tribes. For me, it is that simple, and if saying sorry will help the Australian Indigenous people to heal, how can that possibly hurt us?

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handbagdeb
February 8th, 2008

And sorry about my horrendous spelling!

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Josephine
February 8th, 2008

There appears to be a misunderstanding about why indigenous children were removed from their families in the first instance. This was a government decision. Children with mixed race parentage were removed so they could be indoctrinated with the way of life of white australia because in the view of that government black australia was gone.

The facts are that this stolen generation (more than one generation) were indoctrinated with some very nasty aspects of whoite australia - verbal, physical and sexual abuse, and discrimination. This is the plight of the indigenous world.

I am sorry.

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Angels Agree
February 8th, 2008

Thank God our current government is willing to say Sorry on behalf of the nation to a group who have been severely traumatized by past government action and inaction.
Symbolically such a move is very important. This should be backed up by programs which bring social stability and healing and is not about individual payouts. Indigenous communities should have access to good health and education progams as in the wider community. Policing should support good social governance and not have to carry the burdens of of bad liquor laws and child abuse.

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Greg Angelo
February 8th, 2008

This is a highly emotive issue pushed by activists to get their rocks off. The simple act of saying sorry will not in itself make any significant difference other than to those who made the single issue so important because that's all they can wrap their minds around.

How many of the so-called stolen generation can read and write effectively as a consequence of being removed from their original social environment.

Why should I feel sorry for people who choose to live and an economically dysfunctional environment and transmit these values to their children.

The key to social dysfunction is economic independence and economic independence will only come from education and absorption of economic and social values that allows one to become competitive in a modern economy.

Stone Age culture has no particular value. Western civilisation left its Stone Age cultural values between 10,000 and 20,000 years ago. I'm sure elements have survived in our modern culture but we have no broader reference against which to identified what components of a social organisation was in existence of the 20,000 years ago.

The western social and economic model has been shown to be the most successful in the world, and all effective modern economy including China demonstrate these broad social values , having left small tribal values behind thousands of years ago

There is very little of the original social structure existing Australia 230 years ago. Fragments of the original culture exist in small pockets, but the bulk of what we see today is a combination of elements of these values merged with the mainstream Australian multicultural environment.

What we see in this hybrid culture is two segments. The first is people of aboriginal descent living reasonably happily in whatever environment they choose to be in. This includes aboriginals living quietly in a fully integrated manner with in the social mainstream and people happily living their cultural lifestyle away from the main cities and towns, economically supported largely by social welfare payments.

The second segment includes people who are economically and socially marginalised because of their relative language and cultural incapacities. Because of perceptions of past inequality and discrimination, nothing effective can be done to help the children of this segment of the population because of the fear of creating another stolen generation. Accordingly the children are left to rot in their dysfunctional environment and the whole vicious cycle is repeated over and over again. Saying sorry will not make one iota of difference to this problem.

On the morning after the "sorry" declaration, what will be different?. The activists having got the rocks will feel good, and then move on to some other simple single issue that they can feel good about. Lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee because they now have an official basis for pushing for large amounts of compensation dollars to flow from this admission.

Nothing else much will change. Children were born into a cycle of poverty and alcohol abuse, children will be raped and sodomised, and we will continue the vicious cycle of foetal alcohol syndrome poor health and social welfare dependency because the root cause of this functionality is not being addressed effectively.

The reason is not been addressed effectively is that there is no solution because of the competing values set of both the disadvantaged and the community standing helplessly by not knowing how this problem can be addressed without affecting the so-called civil rights of the aboriginal community. For this situation I am truly sorry.

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Joan
February 8th, 2008

OK yes it is important for our government to say sorry, but as far as I am concerned I have already said sorry from the bottom of my heart, I signed the book, I marched, it was an important day and it seems to have been forgotten or disregarded. Cannot help wondering if that small % of people remember that too and wonder what the point of this one is? Mind you there will always be people who 'don't give a .... about anything at all, this included so I reckon the % that do is pretty good. Keep up the good work

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Joan
February 8th, 2008

I felt a great sense of relief when Kevin Rudd announced that his government would say sorry. It is long overdue and a first step in true reconciliation.
South Africa has set an example to the world. More than words are needed though, we need a change of heart and thoughtful action.

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Robin
February 8th, 2008

Our government should say sorry to the Aboriginal people as this county was stolen from them by armed robbers who showed little respect for the Australian culture that was in place then (where was the citizenship test that the british settlers had to pass).
The next step after our government has said SORRY is for the Aboriginal Nation to FORGIVE their ignorance so that reconcilliation can begin.
We are all one race (human) on one planet.

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I AM Julie Anne
February 8th, 2008

I am so happy and proud of our new government as it takes the steps towards saying sorry to those Australians that have been so traumatised by our inflictions upon them. It is the first step in reconciliation, and many say it must be backed up by eduction, health and other programs. Give the Aboriginal people back their dignity! We are so busy trying to change them. Has anyone thought for a moment that they can actually put us into their educational programs. Are we going to make the same mistakes by trying to integrate them inot our white society when maybe we might just need to integrate into theirs and learn about the Earth, the land, their spirituality is something that we can all learn from. Set up the class room by all means but think about who should be teaching who. That will take care of the health problems.

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lynda
February 8th, 2008

In order to heal we must acknowledge harm was done. Anyone in doubt about that should watch the film "rabbit proof fence".Especially the harrowing scene where the mother is chasing the car with her children in it. Imagine if we did that today to a specific ethnic group!!

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geekay
February 8th, 2008

Objective observers are still waiting.

Waiting to see if the bleeding heart brigade can come up with some positive comments, even one would do, to compliment the progress, achievements and contributions to indigenous Australians by the British since settlement.

Surely not every single day since 1770 has been a story of abject terror, horror, deprivation and subjugation ?

Any takers..?

By the way, I don't have a fundamental objection to a carefully worded "sorry". I just think it is a massive media/noisey self-interest group beat up that will add nothing to improving the quality of life for aboriginal people. It can be achieved by a candid and objective look at each other, not just a mud slinging match by people who refuse to see good where it is plain to see.

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Cheryl
February 8th, 2008

Your comment This apology was due many years ago when we marched and became truly aware of the problem. It shames me that these things where occurring when I was a young person and we knew nothing about it; it shames me as an Australian that it took so long for us to recognize Aborigines as people with rights and thus give them responsibilities the same as us. Shame on those who do not want to give our brothers and sisters an apology.

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sean quinn
February 8th, 2008

There seem to be some serious misconceptions remaining about why and on who's behalf this apology is being given.

Just to make it plain, the apology is by the Australian Government for actions in the past by the Australian Government. It is not on behalf of Australians in general but on behalf of the institution itself. That is why every State and Territory Government and court system has apologised individually already.

The other popular misconception seems to be that these children were taken from their parents because it was necessary for their welfare. Nothing could be further from the truth. They were taken because they were the children of Aboriginal and European parents (mixed blood) and it was therefore assumed that, while the 'full blood' Aborigine would die out, those of mixed blood would make good servants for white people.

Nobody in their right mind would argue that children should not be taken from parents who are a danger to them, but this was not the case with the Stolen Generations. People who assert that we have done these people a favour are displaying a monumental misunderstanding of what went on for 70 years of Australian history.

Please also remember that many of the people that were torn from their parents' arms are still alive today and are still trying to cope with the emotional scars that this left on their lives.

Can you imagine how hard it must be for people who have experienced the worst that institutional life has to offer to listen to people telling them it was done for their own good?

The apology by the Australian Government may not provide any concrete action of itself, but it will say for once and all to those who were taken from their families that the institution which did them so much wrong now acknowledges the wrongness of those actions.

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Adrian Bell
February 8th, 2008

I wish you every success in the campaign. I find the residual level of ignorance on this matter matched only by the prejudice within those who should know better. I deal with it frequently.
After demanding a 'Sorry' from the Japanese and the Germans as to their role in WW 2 how can anyone deny our own obligation to offer a similar gesture to a whole race brutalised over 200 years in a conscious, brutal and criminal manner.

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Robyn Clark
February 8th, 2008

I am very proud of my country and ALL its people and anything that unites us all as one is to me just a no brainer. I'm sorry for the way in which indigenous people were treated and even in this day and age the fact that we see the indigenous people have to fight for a fair go and recognition of what horrible things were done years ago makes me ashamed for anyone who still can't see that we are on this earth to support each other, no matter what colour your skin is.
Lastly, well done Mr Rudd, you are proving a much stronger character than I would have given you credit for. Sometimes it takes more guts to do the right thing not the easy thing.

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Leroy
February 8th, 2008

Interesting that Getup now supports dissemination of information. I have asked questions a number of times on a "Sorry" blog only to have them not posted. If you want support allow questions to be asked so that the truth can be known.

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Silvija Svencis
February 8th, 2008

It is a way for us all to move forward and for better understanding and for healing to take place with these people - I am all for an apology

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Steve Davies
February 8th, 2008


‘Sorry seems to be the hardest word' for some, but used authentically it is arguably one of the most powerful expressions in any language, and a well chosen word in the context of reconciliation. In a brief moment of deep authenticity, "sorry" has us emerge from behind our self-protective opinions and allows us to move forward. It creates a space of humility for us all from where we can see and simply acknowledge our fallability as human beings. From my humble perspective, it seems the future of humanity depends on it.
Steve Davies
2480

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sheryl muirhead
February 8th, 2008

I believe an apology as a nation is essential to the start of reconciliation. We,white Australia, as the next generations are not directly responsible for events of the past but we are aware of todays consequences for the 'stolen generation'of those past actions, for which we can apologise on a more 'personal responsibility' level. I also believe there will be no progress on reconciliation unless the apology is accepted and aboriginal australians can forgive.No-one can move on emotionally or spiritually unless first an apology is given and second it is received and forgiveness returned. Those concerned, in fact as a nation, we will not forget the past but for healing to occur as a nation and as 2 opposing people in this issue, forgiveness must take place.Only then I believe the healing process can start in individual hearts to enable a moving on.With an understanding and undertaking that the massive problems experienced by those aboriginals caught in a cultural wasteland, not belonging to the traditional culture and not able to integrate acceptably into white australian culture due to hurts,isolation or whatever the issues of inequitable education, health and social,mental emotional and spiritual issues may be able to begin. Without the belief that decisions will be made in the best interests of aboriginals concerned, nothing can be done. Claiming civil rights abuses does not make practical help easy. Genuine consultation within communities and with aboriginal leadership is essential but where local aboriginal leaders have in many cases been perpetrators and involved with issues such as child abuse, a government must be allowed to act in manner that protects children from danger by removal elsewhere. White children are removed from danger when the situation is recognised. I am sure if there are enough aboriginal foster families to provide shelter until the situation can be assessed and improved or permanently changed then these would be used but surely after the apology and forgiveness, the community at large can see a white home is better than an abusive one with a different prpose and attitude to paternality of the past.

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Brenton the Goalkeeper
February 8th, 2008

If I remember from my Sunday schooling correctly, the only road paved with good intentions was the road to Hell. The road to Heaven was paved with good deeds. Whatever the intentions of the people who broke up families and took children away from their traditional support networks, the fact remains that it was badly done and created lifelong suffering for many if not most of those children. "Sorry" is important because it will be official recognition that the problem exists, and will be the first real step towards correcting it.

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geoff lloyd
February 8th, 2008

Perhaps you should read the essay by Marcia Langton, titled, Trapped in the Aboriginal reality show. Marcia Langton is a Proffessor of Aboriginals studies at Melbourne University. Her concluding words are as follows; in the mindset, the potential of an economically empowered, free thinking, free speaking Aborigine has been set to one side because it is more interesting to play with the warm, cuddly cultural Aborigine-the one who is so demoralised that the only available role is as a passive player. The dominance of the reconciliation and justice rhetoric in the Australian discourse on Aboriginal issues is a part of this. Quote

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Richard Mills
February 8th, 2008

The feeling for saying sorry should come from the feeling of love we have for our own children.

That we understand how traumatic it would be to have our children taken away from us.

That we understand that our children would endure hardship and emotional trauma for many years as a result of their seperation from us .

And that we understand that this sadness could extend through several generations - kids, parents and grandparents.


Greg Angelo - your comment is largely an uneducated viewpoint - your personal opinion. You have no background in social sciences. I hope your children, nieces or nephews are never taken from you.
Neither your opinion here nor your position in life would prevent me from showing you and your family compassion and consideration. Have a good weekend with your kids Greg - Richard

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karen dahl
February 8th, 2008

Manning Clarke House, of which I am a member, is looking for people to help in the Canberra region who can provide accomodation for Aboriginal people travelling to be part of the SORRY recognition day. Kindly people who can provide transport and accommodation are sought for 11th 12th 13th February. Ph Mary Ivec 02 6125 4438 or 0438 629211 to discuss billeting for the nights mentioned or transport to and from the airport. Here is our chance to show that we are truly sorry rather than to just say it. What do you think/feel? Are we capable of showing that we are SORRY or are we just verbal people?

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Gaye Beathe
February 8th, 2008

I am so thankful that finally someone is taking the bull by the horns and recognising the only way to move forward is to look at what is happening now, because of what happened from early settlement onwards.

Education is the only way for people to understand. If you don't know about what happened, how can you mend it?

So many people have turned a blind eye or put their head in the sand thinking perhaps this will all go away.

Probably a lot of people are concerned with the idea of compensation. There is no way we can change what happened, we can certainly try and make up for it by taking the first step and recognising how pear shaped it has become.

Nobody owns the land, not in any country. We are minders for the future generations. Look what we have done so far. The Aboriginals were the minders, where is the respect???

How can we all live together and have the same common ground if we don't mend the bridge? I hope we can all move together as one for the future. There are so many other issues to deal with for our planet, lets get over this and work together for the common good.

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joesa
February 8th, 2008

While I am very willing to say sorry, I do understand some people's concern with the slick label "Stolen Generations" which the media and other groups use to designate the people affected by policies of removal that have traumatised aboriginal people over seval generations. this in no way reflects my political preferences, but I do think any apology should use language that better reflects the various situations that took place rather than just totally emotive labels. The recent suggestion of 'separated' does seem to respond to this, but rather than using 'separated' to replace 'stolen' maybe it could be included as well, so that both those that were separated, removed, or stolen could be covered. Perhaps 'traumatised' is more pertinent, because this word covers all conditions and really address the people who need to be apologised to. If my thinking is wrong in this I would appreciate being informed as to why.

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leo & liz
February 8th, 2008

Thanks for sharing your story. We have friends who have suffered as you have & know how much this apology means to them. Personally it is something we have hoped for for years. Best wishes for a future of recognition & fulfillment of the promise of unity with a shared sense of purpose as one people.

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Libby
February 8th, 2008

People who have difficulty accepting that we should say "sorry" should seriously consider the implications that apply to a someone who is "not sorry".
They should have a look at the meaning of this amazing and compassionate word in their dictionary - the Macquarie Dictionary would be a good place to start, being a reference for Australian English.
They would discover that they are people without regret, compunction, sympathy or pity and a great many other things besides.

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Ro Bailey
February 8th, 2008

Josea, I have an Aboriginal friend who was taken from her mother's arms at the age of two weeks and kept at the police station until she was given to a white foster family who my friend says "treated her like a punching bag". Meanwhile, her distraught mother attempted every day for a month to get her baby back, attending the police station and pleading for the return of her daughter. The police got rid of her in the cruelest way, they forged a death certificate and told her her baby had died. It took my friend 37 yrs to reconact her mother. If that's not being stolen then I'd like to know what it is.

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Louise
February 8th, 2008

I wasn't born here but in Britain, I became an Australian Citizen 17 years ago. I am proud to be an Austalian and I'm sorry and ashamed by what has happened in the past to the stolen Generation. If blessed, we all have two legs, two arms and one generous heart (regardless of colour we are all of one race and I teach this to my children). We need to embrace and open our hearts and admit what was done was disgraceful and it will never be repeated. We can't change the past, but we have control of our future, lets unite.

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Margaret Burley
February 8th, 2008

I fully suppport the need to sday sorry and acknowledge what happened to the individuals of the stolen generation. All anyone has to do is to put themselves in the shoes of the parent or the child taken away and try to imagine what it feels like, the laws of this country not only allowed this to happen but actively encouraged it, and although we will never be able to give back what was taken we MUST acknowledged it and the pain that ensued.

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lyn
February 8th, 2008

It is important to realise the healing power of the word sorry. It is also about recognising that a wrong has been done and allows people to accept and move on. Our indigenous people deserve this at the very least.

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Handyman
February 8th, 2008

Say sorry > be forgiven > unite > move on... .

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Heather Bond
February 8th, 2008

Helen, Thank you to you and your team for fighting for ten long years - finally we say sorry. Following is a poem I wrote about the past 220 years of horrors and injustices committed against the Aboriginal people by 'the colonisers/invaders'.

Aboriginal Blood, Sweat and Tears

Brits arrived in tall ships and invaded this land
Not terra nullius, not empty land
Using English legal witchcraft, conscience free
Hoisted flag, claimed land, all girt by sea.
Complete dispossession of all native tribes
No need for treaty, not even bribes.

Boats spewed out white people, some dragging chains
Military law, murder, genocide reigned
Brits massacred natives who dared stand in the way.
Those who survived the State did not pay
For work performed in the houses and stations
Reckoned they should accept mean, stingy rations.

Totally exploited for labour and sex
Natives soon learnt to fear fire-throwing sticks.
When their numbers dwindled from a million or two
To about sixty thousand, there was nought else to do
‘Protection’ of this ‘race’ had become paramount
Herded to reserves Protectors controlled their whereabouts.

Assimilation followed, resulting in cultural genocide
Removed into mainstream, English custom would abide
Absorption of ‘semi-civilised’, ‘full-bloods’ in isolation
Mixed colour to breed out by prohibiting miscegenation.
The State forcibly removed children if they weren’t completely black
The ‘stolen generation’ are testament to this act.

English law which stole Aboriginal land, children and culture
Incarcerates Aboriginals in disproportionate numbers
For stealing a video, or something to eat
Dispossessed, unemployed, poverty can’t be beat
The State doling out welfare, just enough to survive,
So Human Rights activists can’t cry ‘genocide’.

This stolen nation founded on Aboriginal blood, sweat & tears
Needs to recognise the injustices of the past 200 years
If one word is all it takes to advance reconciliation
Without fear of land grabs and financial compensation
Then I say lets do it, let’s show the world we can
Say sorry for past injustices, and make this a better land.

Heather Bond

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Vicky Miles
February 8th, 2008

I have heard some Naive comments in relation to the 'Stolen Generation', made by people who are uneducated in the subject. I would like to share the comment that was made - "THESE KIDS WERE FINE, LOOK AT THE PHOTO'S, THEY WERE SMILING, THEY WERE HAPPY". Well I say, number ONE, they weere smiling in those photos, because they were forced to smile and Number TWO - What?? These Stolen children weren't happy at home!! DID anyone ask them, did anyone give them a choice?!

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miro
February 8th, 2008

Dear Helen,

Your words are inspiring and speak of the hope for a better and more just Australia. This hope is shared by others I am sure - I agree that Mr Rudd's promises about saying sorry made many of us feel that the dynamics of of our relationship with Indigenous Australians was about to change for the better and that healing on both sides was to begin. Many of us look forward to a more just and unified Australia where Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians seek the best for each other and for this country

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Susanne Maree Hale
February 8th, 2008

I am sorry. I look into my daughters eyes and cannot even begin to imagine how I would feel or what I would do if someone, for whatever reason, took her away from me. One thing I do know is that I would feel that my life was over. How anyone survived that unbelievable heartbreak of having their child stolen is something I hope I will never have to know. I have such respect for those, parents and children, who have survived. The make me feel so humble. Please accept my respect, my apology and my sorry.

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Lisa Vantanen
February 8th, 2008

The word 'Sorry' alone can be a descriptor, and adjective, describing a mood state, and it can have a hollow ring to it, only making the apology giver feel better. Without outlining what one is sorry for, and how one intends to go about making things better it has no sincerity whatsoever.

Also it makes me irate to read that people like Ms Bishop (Deputy Opposition Leader) are saying the children were not stolen. If parents weren't included in any discussion, negotiation, planning etc., for the futures of their children, and those children were dragged off kicking and screaming with their parents left bereaved and bewildered, then what happened is criminal, call it abduction, kidnapping or stealing.

Lisa Vantanen


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EveH
February 8th, 2008

It is sad that some people in this land just don't get the elements of forgiveness and the importance of having "hurt" acknowledged. Let us not forget the Truth and Reconciliation processes in other countries and the healing effects. We cannot deny an individual's story and if they say an apology will assist in the healing process, an apology must be given to ensure healing.

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numbat
February 8th, 2008

I totally am for this inititive of the Rudd government to say "sorry" to the indigenious people of Australia. It is way over due!! How could a nation do this and not have some sort of regret over it. It is the most terrible thing and I am sorry that the kooris of this country have had to wait so long for one small word that means so very much to them as a people. A word that acknowledges them and what they have suffered. I hang my head in shame some days. Good one Kev07. As a birthmother who was separated from her child (not thru choice) my heart goes out to all who were affected by the government of the day. I too know your suffering. Good luck!!!

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MareksLady
February 8th, 2008

Dear Helen,
I totally agree with EVERYTHING that you say about apologizing to these proud people.
Please keep up the good work.
You are the type of inspiring person that these wonderful people need.
Thank you for your courage to speak out about this terrible situation that the last Government wanted to sweep under the carpet but now the Labor Government won't and it's wonderful that they are going to say "sorry".

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Dana Alfred
February 8th, 2008

As a child and as a teenager I believed that saying "Sorry" meant saying sorry for the taking of land or perhaps killing some long gone people or new settlers unknowingly spreading disease. That was such a naive understanding of the "Sorry" debate.
But weren't these issues the only ones taught in Social Studies at school? Many Australians do not realise that the injustices to the Aboriginal people are still being lived today.
The only education I have received on the Stolen Generation has come from watching television shows on SBS and the ABC.
There is nothing we can do to compensate the destruction of a whole race of people.
However, we can recognise our wrongs as a country so that we never allow our government to institutionalise children, enforce or encourage adoption or separate brothers and sisters from their families.
In the 70s, there was an Australian adoption rate of 1 in every 15 babies born. Are we to believe that 1 in 15 mothers from those years did not feel a need to or could not look after their children?
If we do not recognise the first Stolen Generation of Aboriginal people and the second Stolen Generation of non-indigenous people how can we prevent the destruction of families in the future?
No government has a right to rule in favor of stealing a person's family identity and heritage and to enforce against the meeting of brothers and sisters until one is 18 and then only if they are able to find them through searching.
People must be able to have a right to know their genetically true family from their first day of life.
If more Stolen Generation truths can be told and heard, we may be able to avoid the third Stolen Generation which is currently looming over our heads. This is the generation currently being created from sperm donors, donor eggs and surrogate mothers through IVF.
Children are currently being born without knowing the love of thier genetic siblings and parents.
Does our government have a right to make artificial orphans?
Through our history we have seen the consequences.

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Shelly
February 8th, 2008

In '92 my grandmother found her mother for the first time since she was separated just after birth. none of us knew we were part aboriginal... we were irish, english, greek and german... then we became aboriginal as well. one of my uncles was very upset because he believed that aboriginal people were a different kind of human to europeans because they had not developed as europeans did. to find out he was part aboriginal was a bit of a shock. many years have passed and he is more educated now. he now understands that in fact the way many aboriginal lived and some still live is perfectly matched to long term environmental management and therefore intergenerational equity in this land.

we now talk of over population, energy crisis, resource crisis, climate change and sustainability issues as things that will breakdown the dominant captialist structure of our societies, forcing massive social and economic change. one way of living is certainly NOT better as a whole than the other, but to lose a people and culture so perfectly adapted to the land is a crime. this is what past governments tried to do by assimilation policies, hoping what was thought to be an inferior race and culture die out. this has created numerous social dysfunctions in our society and wounds that are still open and weeping.

the moral of the story is that we judge people and cultures through a lens that is socially constructed by the information and experiences we are exposed. sometimes it takes a shock to help us widen our lens - like my uncle.

we can only hope that our fellow aussies who don't understand that sorry means healing or that believe the orginal culture and people of this land are in some way inferior, receive such a shock that widens their lens'... maybe having their children stolen from such a homogeneous and vacuous existence, destined for psychotic collapse...

furthermore for those who are paralysed by guilt - STOP. guilt is destructive. you are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors, only for your actions today.

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Rachael
February 8th, 2008

I just got shivers up my spine reading this... as a pakeha (white person from New Zealand) I will be joining the nation in saying "Sorry". I look forward to the healing of the Stolen Generation and the wider community.

Australia will be a better place for it.

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Dawn Linklater
February 8th, 2008

I support an apology being made because it was a Government (of the day) policy to remove part-Aboriginal children from their parents. This policy was based solely on skin colour - not anything to do with parenting ability, but only on the skin colour. I find it obnoxious that any skin colour, or other racial physical characteristics, should be considered anything less than any other skin colour/characteristics. I support the Government saying sorry for past wrongs.

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Jules
February 8th, 2008

Congratulations to Helen Moran for her positive statement and attitude. Saying sorry for the stolen generations is just a start and hopefully the wording will include being sorry for the abysmal abuse of Aboriginal people for 200 yrs by earlier Australians and governments, recognition of corrupt governments that never paid the money kept back from Aboriginal military personnel and cattle station workers (was it 50%?) and the inherent racism that was embedded in legislation that reflected the status quo and silently allowed church, school, police and other depts to deal out abuse without fear or conscience.

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geekay
February 8th, 2008

Heather Bond's poem simply typifies the bleeding heart brigade who live in a utopian, idealised world and claims credibility through gushy, maudlin sentiments that have no reality in today's world.

So typical, expects dialogue and progress to begin when all non-indigenous are sterotyped and told how bad we are, how bad we were and not one single word of the major progress that has occurred and is available to and afforded to the indigenous Australians.

Take off your soppy, biased and oversentimental platitudes and get into the modern world where opportunity is available to everyone who seeks it.

Regret was expressed years ago by the former Government but the bleeding hearts wanted it worded differently, so don't say the injustices have never been acknowledged. You are playing semantics.

It is the condemn-only attitude by the bleeding heart brigade that revel in the past and only mention unpleasant things at the exclusion of everything else that has been good and progressive which will, paradoxically, delay any concept of reconciliation because the bleeding hearts WON'T acknowldge ANYTHING positive. These blogs prove that conclusively if you open your mind a bit.

What a strange attitude.

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bossinvestigate
February 8th, 2008

What is there to say,but just to feel the hurt and shame with the writer

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bossinvestigate
February 8th, 2008

Having lived through Segregation,then Apartheid,now long since has been ,dismantled and is now past history.It is indeed shocking and a disgrace to see and witness the conditions the original Australians are forced to live in .And that in a country that is supposed to be a Democracy,but is treated like second class citizens by our Federal Governments both Labor and Liberal

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About time
February 8th, 2008

I could not imagine my children being stolen from me. Actually they wouldn't be because my skin is white.I applaud the current Government for saying sorry. I feel sad for my fellow Australians that do not agree. To all of you I say go to the Human Rights & Equal Opportunity Commission website and educate yourself. Watch Rabbit Proof Fence, read literature and if you are lucky enough,get to know an Aboriginal person or family. You owe it to yourself. Show some empathy and look outside your own "world". The problem with white Australia is the lack of education which leads to ignorance. Most of my friends are Aboriginal. I grew up as my children did in an Aboriginal community and I feel honoured to be accepted and loved by my friends for who I am and not be judged because of the colour of my skin. That's what it's all about - mutual respect for your fellow human being. After all, we all bleed the same red stuff.

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Mary
February 8th, 2008

Thank you, Helen. I wish it were possible for me to be in Canberra in person on Wednesday to witness this wonderful and long overdue event. May God bless you all on your journey forward. If you can find it, read Robert Frost's lovely poem "The Road not Taken." There are definitely two roads ahead of us now and the one we take and why and how we journey along that road will be vital for the welfare of all Australians.

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Carolina
February 8th, 2008

You're inspiring. Thank you for your compassionate explanation.

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Mario
February 8th, 2008

I have spoken to a few people about this over the last year or so and many believe that an apology will mean that the Federal Government accepts full responsibility for the past actions of the authorities involved and it will then lead to vast claims for compensation. Some then say, o.k we are a nation that is well off, we shouls compensate these people, but others say that we are already one of the most over-taxed people on the planet and we cannot afford to pay compensation. I believe that the average Mr & Mrs Smith, who are already doing it tough with mortgage repayments and the costs of living, would be all in favour of an apology if they were assured that they would not be further out of pocket for huge compensation payouts. I also believe that all Australians should be treated & respected equally, in health, jobs, access to information, right down to everyday living including wages, equal pay for equal work, no matter who performs that work.

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get it right
February 8th, 2008

I applaud the Rudd government for having the guts to say sorry at last, but the apology should be directed at all of those who were taken, as white children were removed as well as Aboriginal children. I do not agree with the term "stolen Generation" as the children were openly removed, not covertly removed as the word stolen suggests. Likewise it was not a generation that was removed. Both of these terms are inaccurate and if we are going to fix things up, then let's get the terminology right. There has been too much emotional inaccuracy in wording from both sides and in this apology we need to get things correct or it will be meaningless. There is no doubt that the removal of these children (both black and white) was wrong, but at the time the perpetrators believed they were acting in the best interests of the children, for their future.
I repeat, if we don't get the facts right, by using accurate terminology, the apology will be meaningless, and directed at a mythical, misleading and inaccurate belief.
Please don't waste this opportunity.

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Toni King
February 8th, 2008

I am moved by Helen's relief at being onside and able to cooperate with the Government already. I am aware that many children were not stolen but their parents chose to send them to Missions and many others were orphaned or separated by family circumstances. However many were forcibly taken. We want to express our sorrow for the pain experienced by all such family members down to this generation and like Helen, work together for a better future for all Australians. Let's stop quibling and just do it. Australians.

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Louise
February 8th, 2008

Thank you Helen for your insight. I'm a non-Indigenous Australian and am excited about the upcoming apology as an important step in the reconciliation and healing process. I feel so strongly about it that I'm flying to Canberra to witness the apology with my month-old daughter. I hope I can tell her one day how she was there at the apology and that it began a chain of events which significantly improved the health and wellbeing of Indigenous Australians and began a new era in respectful and meaningful relationship between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia.

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Moxie
February 8th, 2008

If everyone in Australia saw the DVD "Bringing them Home" http://www.humanrights.gov.au/education/bth/teaching_materials/t_DVD_activity.html
they would certainly have a much broader understand of the challenges indigenous people face......
As a 61 year old Aussie I had no idea that demolishing the indgenous culture was paramount reason for removing the children from their parents. I'm really sorry for whiite man's thinking and arrogance.

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phildeerhound
February 8th, 2008

To say "sorry" to a person is to recognise them - even if only for a moment - as your equal.

If saying "sorry" helps us do that, then let us do it willingly and generously, both individually and institutionally

And lets try and make treating our fellow human beings as equals into a habit.

The path to a happy future for humanity lies in encouraging a feeling of brotherhood and sisterhood - in learning to love every new born child

Anybody who has been hurt just once in their life - and surely that is all of us - knows what "sorry" means. But if they have indeed forgotten, I believe it means above all else "I care about you"

I have a friend who is dying at the moment - it is not my fault that they are so desperately ill. I have no difficulty in saying that I am terribly sorry and sad to their loved ones, that I too care about what is happening to my friend

Sorry means "I care" about my friends, that I love them

Is it really so hard for some people to hear their own beating heart and know that all hearts beat the same.

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JudyG
February 8th, 2008

Your comment I was privileged to work with Aboriginal people on a mission station many years ago. We did our best as we knew how at the time, but a few years ago I returned for a visit. So much had changed but I could see the people had recovered their pride and were managing things wonderfully for themselves. I said to one elderly gentleman, "How can you ever forgive us?" and he replied with a beautiful smile, "Don't ever think about it sister, don't ever think about it." This still brings tears to my eyes. I am sure a national apology would bring an equally generous acceptance by these wonderful people.

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Marmalade
February 8th, 2008

I read the Bringing them Home report when it was released and my shock and horror at the sadness and injustice in the stories still affects me. It is past time for this apology to be made - I wholheartedly support it - and urge all fairminded aussies to do the same.

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brannach
February 8th, 2008

I think we need more people to read the report on the 'stolen generations'. Removal of part indigenous children was a specific and planned attempt to remove aboriginal culture (in its broadest sense) from this land, a form of cultural genocide. The 'powers' that were, believed that the 'inferior' full blood aboriginals would die out and that the removed children would fully integrate.

I wasn't born in this country, but my heart and soul are Australian. From my heart and soul I can say that I am truly sorry that this happened in this wonderful country. Regardless of when it happened it was ill-informed, destructive, and inhuman. Yes - white children were removed but not with the intention of destroying what made them different.

Helen and all indigenous people in this land - I'm sorry! - that this awful thing ever happened, and for the distress, confusion and heartache that it continues to cause.

I hope this is just the beginning as our nation strives to be truly a place of equality for all.

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Anglo Saxon Aussie
February 8th, 2008

Perhaps Elton's old song fits the situation. It's a word that is a universal first step to reconciliation. A relationship without it is doomed, a society without it shall never blossom.

What do I do to make you want me
What have I got to do to be heard
What do I say when it's all over
And sorry seems to be the hardest word

It's sad, so sad
It's a sad, sad situation
And it's getting more and more absurd
It's sad, so sad
Why can't we talk it over
Oh it seems to me
That sorry seems to be the hardest word

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jude
February 8th, 2008

Congratulations to all the hundreds of people who have struggled over many decades to right the wrongs of the past.
The "Bringing them Home" report should be read by everyone and incorporated into school curriculum so that future generations will be better informed about part of our history.

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kerrie
February 8th, 2008

Sorry is the hardest word to say, but what a sense of relief you have when you have said it. We need to help mend our Indigenous people's spirits and embrace their connections to our beautiful country. For future generations we need to move forward united and allow all its citizens share in its wealth equally.

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hethanne
February 8th, 2008

I hav believed that my indigenous neighbours in my town of armidale have wanted to hear this from all around them for such a long time now, the celebration of their culture and the understanding of their needs to be known as a beautiful thing their old and their new young. happy and thank you prime minister Rudd....

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Peter Love
February 9th, 2008

I have always been very concerned by the short sighted and ill informed view of those who proclaim they will not say sorry for something they personally did not do. This simple statement is an insight into a cancer in our society.
I personally am sorry they feel this way,( as I am sorry for the actions of Hitler, Pol Pot,George Bush,John Howard etc.) even though I did not contribute to these actions.
All people need to consider the result of current and historical events,to obtain all the available facts to allow a balanced and Ozzie Fair Dikum Fair Go.

Sadly I feel the cancer in our society in this instance is racism.

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Peter Sabatino
February 9th, 2008

I am a Torres Strait Islander. When my mother died four months ago, my colleagues at work expressed their sorrow at my loss. They were not personally responsible for her death, but as fellow human beings, compassion and empathy led them to do this. To me, this is what the national apology is about.

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Jean Tilly
February 9th, 2008

As a 'Ten pound Pom' I love this country with a passion. Its landscape.itscolour, its plants and animals. Its spirit, its soul its ancient being. But our inabilility to be together with the true Aussies has always been beyond my understanding. What's so hard? We understand the dreadful inequity that the British Empire imposed on other countries and races, why can't we see ourselves? My thanks to everyone that made this turn around possible. At last. Now we have accepted the past we can at long last start to fix the future for indigenous australia. I am just so sorry for what my own people have done, whether in ignorance or not. Just so ashamed, so sorry.

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Hugh Woolford
February 9th, 2008

As a child I grew up on Thursday Is. at the top of Cape York. This was in the late 1950's. There were problems then, but in some ways quality of life has deteriorated immensely.
To some extent the externalising of the locus of control for indigenous people via imposing an alien religion (which had no concept or recognition of indigenous beliefs and customs), imposing rules with no thought of consultation, and effectively destroying their existing means of social order and authority has led to the shocking social situation we now have.
For an Australian to have reluctance to say sorry is to me unimaginable if the individual is aware of what has happenned. We, the dominant culture, allowed successive governments to continue there paternalistic and fantastically disatrous "care" of most of the indigenous communities. Many of the individuals invololved were "good god fearing" citizens and often pleasant and well intentioned but that does not change anything. The consequences have been unbelievably disastrous. Even in the past 20 years things have been allowed to deteriorate eg life expectanccy at Woorabinda (near Rockhampton) dropped by 10% from about 1984 to 1994.
Thankfully there are many intelligent and well intentioned indigenous people who have miraculously managed to obtain a good education and are actively assisting the redress of this unfortunate disaster. When indigenous people regain some semblance of social unity and basic pride (which most dominant culture indiviuals acquire without any awareness), they themselves will fix things very effectively. There ae no cookbook solutions and patience and resources are needed to assit but as you all know, first we need to acknowledge our lack of accoutability and say SORRY (from the heart)

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\"Bleeding Heart\"
February 9th, 2008

Geekay, where is your humanity? People of spirit speak up for those who are oppressed, wronged and disadvantaged in our society. I dread to think what kind of world it would be without the so-called 'bleeding heart brigade'. You accuse others of using emotive language when you are doing so yourself. Shame on you for denigrating expressions of sorrow about 'man's inhumanity to man' in this way!

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Rob
February 9th, 2008

In the John Howard school of history there is no explanation for the uncomprehending behaviour today on both sides of the racial divide, writes Richard Glover in the SMH. Why has it taken so long to get honest and recognise the baggage we all still carry as a result of very recent historical events? Everyone should read this!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/richard-glover/how-we-came-to-the-present/2008/02/08/1202234157703.html

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John Barr
February 9th, 2008

I support the appology wholeheartedly.

But I feel that there is too much Political Correctness gone into the appology.

Yes, I acknowledge that there were some children removed unnecessarily but most were removed as a result of physical & sexual abuse by male members of their community.

These children would have grown up with belonging to their community or the greater mainstream white community
They would have also grown up without the advantage of an education. Most Aboriginal advocates for the sorry campaign are the beneficiaries of this education and were removed from their communities for the above reasons.

Here, let me remind you that nothing has changed in those communities in the past 100 years. Children are still being abused. This is NOT the fault of the general public or the Government. It is solely the responsibility of the Elders in that community.

We ARE dealing with a change of values in society and that should be recognized. What is seen as abhorrent in society today was considered normal, even applauded, as little as 50 years ago.

Let me remind you that during the same period as these removals young european girls had their babies ripped away from them at the moment of birth. For their own good. These babies were either adopted out of placed in orphanages. The results of this we are finding out about now. This was considered the be the normal course of action to take at that time in history. (my exwife was one of those girls).

Then, during the Second World War thousand of children were removed from their parents in Britain and sent all over the World. The ones that were sent to Australia were told after the War that their parents had been killed. They were told to make a life for themselves in Australia.

I worked for 20 years with one of these victims. One day he received a letter, at work, from the British Consul, saying that his father was trying to find him and that his mother was dying and would like to see him before she passed away. Can you imagine the shock that cause. I can, I was standing along side him when he was given the letter. He was on "4 Corners." after he came back. During that 20 years I had heard many of the horror stories of the Christian Brothers Orphanage in Western Australia where he was sent. Though he did say that he received a better education than he would have received if he had been brought up in Britain.

For this reason I would like to see the apology made a blanket apology for all the victims of those times and a recognision by those people that some benefits were received that allowed them to eventually make a better life for themselves than if they had stayed where they were.

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Pauline
February 9th, 2008

I feel sad and embarrassed by the treatment of aboriginal people since white settlement in Australia, the Stolen Generation was unacceptable. Thank God for our recent change of government. It seems we now have someone with guts and moral conscience. I am hoping this is the first step to real reconciliation for all Australians.

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Bruce Dudon
February 9th, 2008

We must say SORRY.
We have heard how some of our ancestors, mainly in the church system, were trying to help the Aboriginal Children and people but while the intention may have been good the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is applicable here. This will sound odd but, I am sure that even Adolph Hitler did some good deeds along with Stalin, Churhill et al.
Currently we have George W Bush telling us that the war in Iraq is to defeat terrorism but in fact it is a war about domination and OIL. What is terrorism? Is it a group of terrorists killing to gain ground or is it a group of freedom fighters? Many people believe that George W Bush is well intentioned but what he is part of is the deaths and maiming of native people, the seperation of families, the terror instilled in their hearts, the limbless children that we will say "how sad" to but will not take them in to help them recover, no, this is effectively just what our ancestors did. An unknowing sacrilege on innocent people. THEREFORE THE VERY LEAST WE CAN SAY IS SORRY. Having said sorry, we must help these people to become a part of Australia and not tell them how useless they are in our eyes because, as I wrote in a work study I am doing about Aboriginals; "Our children know that if you need to survive you go to a fast food outlet while the Aboriginal children will cross the road and find the native foods within grasp" How do I know? I have worked with them and observed. They don't need big mac they just need our help to share life with us. Say SORRY! I am sure it won't hurt us at all.

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John
February 9th, 2008

Just reading through the comments and what can I say? Are these people for real?

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Jesse Grass
February 9th, 2008


Helen, how will Rudd's statement on Wednesday affect Aboriginal communities in a practical sense ? The waffle above is the same that has been spouted for decades that hasn't solved anything in Aboriginal communities but has kept the likes of you employed in Government funded organisations.

After the apology on Wednesday can we then agree that the whole "reconciliation" thing is now in the court of the Aboriginal community ?

"I don’t need to fight anymore or come from a negative space"

"It will allow the way forward on a journey toward healing"

"the return of identity, land and essential human rights."

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Pauline Kennedy
February 9th, 2008

I feel ashamed, not guilty, about the cruel policy of past Goverments... I belong to the branch of the human family that has governed Australia from first settlement and I have never approved of the cruelty inflicted on Indigenous Australians. There is a big difference between shame and guilt and I am hopeful that there will be real sorrow expressed in the apology, followed by real compensation, as understood by the values of our time.

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John Barr
February 9th, 2008

What we really have to be sorry for.

The whole problem started with the reasoning that European culture is better than indidginous cultures. Therefore, we, as Europeans have summized that we have the right to intrude into indidginous cultures and change them, for profit of course.

When Stanley couldn't get the backing of the Adventures Club in Britain he turned to the Cloth Manufactures and said that the natives were compleatly naked, but they liked coloured cloth. They immediatley gave him all the money he needed for his expedition to Africa and saved the Textile industry.

Indiginious Australians, on the Arrival of Europeans ,were peceived to have no value. They produced nothing. They appeared to own nothing. Therefore they had no value except the land they walked on. They were of no use to Europeans so the land was just taken. This was the Culture of the 18th century.

It has been downhill for Indiginious Culture ever since.

Personally, looking to what has happened to indiginious Cultures throughout the World I believe our European Culture should remove itself from theirs altogether. These peoples were healty, happy, content peoples until Europeans intruded.

I avocate that Europeans should remove themselves from having any contact with indiginious peoples and all traces of European Culture should be permanently removed from theirs. They should be left to live their lives as God intended and not be interfeared with in any way.

That won't happen because there are valuable resorces in Aboriginal lands and Europeans want to profit from them at the expence of Indiginious peoples.

Those Indiginious peoples who want to benifit fron European Society should adopt European Culture wholly. They should then regard their Indiginious Culture as I do. I have Scott, Irish, English, Danish & English ansestry. I acknoweledge this heritage on particular day when it is appropriate but I live within the society as it is today. Those Aboriginal people who chose to remain in European society should do the same and embrace European society wholly.

We should be saying sorry for interfearing with their Culture.

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geekay
February 9th, 2008

Hi Bleeding Heart,

Again, you missed my point.

Past "wrongs" have already been acknowledged for literally decades..that's on the record anywhere you care to look.

Vested interests then played semantics and wanted it expressed differently.

My gripe with the "Bleeding Hearts" is they 1) refuse to acknowledge one iota of the progress, goodwill and ongoing moral and infrastructure support to indigenous persons, 2) will not acknowledge the world was different then, not just in Australia simple as that and 3) indigenous persons need to take far greater responsibility for their mobs behaviours, not blame everybody but themselves.

Sooner or later it was aboriginal Australia's destiny to meet with modern, western culture.

How would the Bleeding Heart brigade liked it to have been done then, in the late 1700's, if they are so condemning of the British..?

Like you, of course I have humanity..the fact that people use this blog is testament to that. However, if you look objectively at the blogs there is that common, but selective view, that everything was always bad, nothing was ever any good, white man is trash and no progress has ever occurred. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Bleeding Hearts may be humane but these blogs identify most of them as bigots and real progress cannot and will not occur until the Bleeding Heart brigade begin to think objectively and acknowldge the good, and the progress that continues to occur along with the bad...not just the bad at the exclusion of anything else.



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Karen T.
February 9th, 2008

While we may not be the ones who participated, we should acknowledge and voice our feelings of sadness for those who were negatively affected by others who believed they knew better and acted without reflection or vision. Most importantly, we should continue to learn from it.

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Peter Grant
February 9th, 2008

I am afraid the Stolen Generations fit into the same category as the Anzac myth. Few facts, mostly fiction.

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Sjaan
February 9th, 2008

The reason why some people do not understand that an apology is the way to stop the hurt is because they do not practice apologies in any shape or form - and have learnt that an apology in Australia means 'losing'. Only losers apologise. Only losers can acknowledge when they've been mistaken or have hurt others. In my experience, Australians are mostly a harsh and brulalised lot, and very insecure about their personal power. As Robert Manne said, do not underestimate how 'hardened the Australian imagination is.' Do not underestimate that those who claim that an apology is not warranted would also never apologise for any wrongdoing they've done - to anybody. Whilst mateship on its surface is an Australian mannerism, it is not something that comes from the heart. It is a propriety that comes from fear and hatred. A central myth has been exposed through Indigenous Australians asking for humanitarian accountability: Australia is not a nation state that has accountability within its conscience, or sense of self. The few will have to stand up and cope with this lack of support, but gain courage and solace from the fact that there are those who not only know how to apologise in their everyday lives with their own loved ones, but also know a broader integrity, and the right way to respond to the stolen generations, and the treatment of Indigenous peoples around the world who have suffered under Imperialist regimes that used racism to achieve its invasions of territories.
The fraud of terra nullius remains the unspoken terror at the bottom of the Australian government's anxiety.

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John Barr
February 9th, 2008

Not good Peter Grant, not good.

To mention ANZAC myths in the same breath. I would beg to differ with you. A good many Australian soldiers of that era would agree with you. But seeing they are all dead it's easy to dismiss their heroics. We will never know the all their individual stories. But truth is stranger than fiction and that's why these stories are called Myths by ignorant people.

I know from my experiences in Viet Nam that the truth was never allowed to be told in the papers. The only reporting, by reporters that never left the comfort of Saigon, was always negative towards us.

This is a different story. Grrrrr!

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Gubba
February 9th, 2008

Am I the only person who has actually read the Bringing Them Home Report?

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pat nield
February 9th, 2008

I'm amazed that an explanation of "sorry" is so needed. To any fair minded person who has evehad to apologise and acknowledged some wrong doing either by themselves or someone close to them, would know that without that acknowledgement, no real healing or shift in the relationship can happen to move forward in a deeper and more honest way.

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I\'m Sorry
February 9th, 2008

Your comment
Dear Geekay, have you actually listened to the views of aboriginal people about what our Government saying Sorry means to them??? To many aboriginal people it is very meaningful and not seen as something to satisfy what you refer to as "some bleeding heart brigade". Come to think of it, having our hearts "bleed" for hurts to others isn't such a bad thing anyway!

An "improvement" in anybody's traumatised life can't begin properly without recognition of what has already happened.

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tassiedevil
February 9th, 2008

If we accept that contemporary Australian society is founded on the racism inherent in colonialism then we have a chance of removing the emotionalism from the debate. Scientific beliefs in the superiority of one race led to insitutional racism which belittled and marginalised the original inhabitants. A natural result was the structural violence which led to the removal of children deemed better raised in the European traditons. We have moved to new times and new ways of thinking. In this perspective the apology is not an admission of individual guilt - but simply an expression of sorrow over our country's 'black' history. Lets leave the emotion behind and get behind both the symbolic and practical measures needed for this nation to move forward and heal itself. PLEASE!

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Megan Hitchens
February 9th, 2008

Those who oppose the apology on the grounds that "all this happened a long time ago" are either in denial or are unaware of the differences in approach by government bodies toward indigenous and non-indigenous Australians right up to the present. The NT Intervention is a case in point. There are non-indigenous communities with similar problems but we don't see the army going in and welfare being quarantined. And as to the stolen generation, indigenous children in the 70s were being threatened with removal from their parents. That is not that distant and certainly can't be written off as "intergenerational" and therefore "not our responsibility" (the tack that the Libs seem finally to have ababndoned). Apart from which, what is wrong with apologising for things that did happen a long time ago. It is never too late to apologise.

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geekay
February 9th, 2008

Hello every blogger...

We are still waiting..waiting for one, just one, complimentary remark to create a semblance of balance and objectivity from the bleeding heart brigade that some progress has occurred since 1770...is it that hard to acknowledge or are your eyes deliberatley closed..?


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hody63
February 9th, 2008

Good luck with the government Helen i think u will need it .But it,s about time someone in power said sorry for our previous leaders wrong doing,s

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Harry Bibby
February 10th, 2008

I don't beleive we should say sorry as we didn't do what passed did I am sorry that they were taken it should never happened but to say sorry will open the flood gates for hugh compensation but what about the white kids that are still being stollen are they going to get an apology and what is going to happen to them.

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fiona
February 10th, 2008

I wholeheartedly agree that we should say sorry for the hurt, loss and injustice done to our indiginous sisters and brothers... I would also like to see them be given more responsibility for their own rehabilitation..especially be listened to in regard to the alcohol problem and thier ideas on how to address it.

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Peter
February 10th, 2008

Harry Bibby you raise a good point about the white kids who you say are still being stolen. Then why don't you do something constructive for their cause by asking the government or other authorities who are responsible for their plight by calling for an apology and other reparation measures. I admire the Stolen Generations for their courage in battling for justice over the past eleven years! You could learn something for your action regarding the white children.

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Andy
February 10th, 2008

As an Anglo-Celtic Australian, I see the Stolen Generation as one example of the cultural arrogance and ignorance we often displayed in the past and that some people cling to today. We thought we were more "civilised" than the people who had lived in this land for thousands of years, but being civilised is not measured by having better machines or more deadly weapons. We are just coming to appreciate the delicate and complex ecology of Australia, and I am gaining a little bit of understanding of the rich and complex relationships that Indigenous people have with each other and the land and sea.

I think saying Sorry for at least some of the acts committed, even if by well-meaning people, is a move towards a more "civilised" society for all of us for the future. If we are worried about compensation, then we should place a higher value on justice than on the money involved, which will be small in relation to our national wealth.

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John Barr
February 10th, 2008

Peter is right. I have started the process. I have written to my local Federal MP asking that the apology be made all encompassing because White children were involved in theis removal as well.

Just looking at the Sunday Mail 11/02/08, page 60/Your Say/Good Point. This is just one case. I personally know of dozens. (Just one person)

So I Beg the point. This was not a Racist thing. It was the normal thing that happened at that time in history.

The plee by the Stolen Generation is about greed. Most of the noise is coming from the Directors of Aboriginal Departments.

I wonder, if we look into their track record just how many have been done, have been or are under investigation for missapprecation of their Departments funds. I can name most of the top people in the North Queensland area. And they are still at it. They just move from one position to another within different organizations.

When they get caught, the organization they were running is disbanded and another starts up. But the new one is being run by the same people and it starts all over again.

Oh sorry! It may be true, but you can't say that because it's not Politically Correct.

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Janeyrose
February 10th, 2008

Some were stolen but so many got to live a longer and healthier and morally richer life than they would have otherwise. What about what is happening in some of the communities today with young girls being raped constantly and drug addicts and boys being sodomised as a "way of life". I want equality for all people, but that means we have to learn from the past and first teach the Aboriginal people how to handle money and white peoples rules as they (whites)will always be in power. Whites got it wrong before because "it was the way it was done" but now that we understand better the connection Aboriginals have with the land and their tribal laws, we now need to ensure an understanding of what white people also have to obey to get by in the world as it is. Their needs to be plenty of financial training, education, health provisions etc, without a minority taking the money and the majority getting nothing.

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Juliana Slevin
February 10th, 2008

I appreciate that Kevin Rudd is prepared to sorry and that as a nation it means that we can admit that mistakes were made in the past. Many feel that what happened was well intentioned by the government and authorities at the time, that they lacked knowledge about indigenous culture and where unaware of the consequences of their actions. we cannot undo the past and we should not be made accountable for it but we can say "sorry".

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John Barr
February 10th, 2008

Jules 08/02/08

corrupt governments that never paid the money kept back from Aboriginal military personnel.

Well I can't say anything pre 1964. All my Aboriginal mates were paid the same rate of pay as I was in the Army. They were also entitled to vote, pre 66. I believe voting rights were granted to Aboriginals in the Armed Forces during the 14/18 bash. I was there when they got paid & we went on leave together there was no discriminations in Pubs either.

There is a lot of Crap being spruiked by Politically Correct people that are just following the crowd and they haven't got a bloody clue, as usual. Do a lot more research into anything you spruik on and look at both sides before you open you mouths. Please.

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susey.theway
February 10th, 2008

I read with amazement the indigenous people and their advancement into this modern world. However many as with other inhabitants of this fair country seem to not see the "big" picture. Many children around the world including "whites" have been "stolen" throughout milleniums and not just "yesterday". It seems that those few, and very few at that, who control,lead and put the stamp of approval to the actions and processes to help, relieve and ease the painful results that others of their kind have also done. (Governments, Managers of departments, Church Groups, Welfare, Charitable Organisations, Health workers and many more. Many people of indigenous oigins have made great successes of their own lives and helped others too. We are all very sorry for any who suffered at these perhaps misguided trials to cure our population of misery from illness, starvation etc. many others too have suffered from Governements, would-be do gooders, those "I now better than you" types. Example how many babies were taken from 15yr olds in the 1900s as they could not possible look after a child. These mothers are still suffering from their loss theuir lives ruined and they will never know, what/who/where and even why. I have lived and worked i places where mixtures of all races from all over this planet have mixed together in great harmony. Which leads me to on important fact .....There is only ONE race on Earth and that is the HUMAN race. Another fact is that since the beginning of thye Human race of mankind, one group has taken over or invaded another groups homes, lands etc, and all have benefited by this mixing of cultures.
I wish for another outcome, of which I have witness that this is eventuating as we speak, culture and cultural elements are within all humans. One way to lnk up with our forgotten or stolen culture is to trace your Family History and Origins. Many web sites are open to this and Librarys around the World and Researchers, Archives are just waiting for people to get their act together and start up. Once you start you will be amazed what you will or can find.
As a final comment you are not just you as you are to-day but a sum total of all those who have gone before.......Good Luck and Good Health as we move on to the perfection that my God, your God (if you have one)or your ideal concept of Humanity would have us be.

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Jeanne
February 10th, 2008

To say sorry is the very least that can be done and must be a beginning to a whole process of healing. How dare people say that Aboriginal children were 'better off' being taken. HAve they ever experienced being taken from their families for no reason except for the colour of their skin? Do they think Aboriginal children and parents didn't feel the awful and never ending pain of separation? Their whole culture has been ripped apart and even today we as White Australians carry on the disgrace by expecting that Aboriginal people should be 'more functioning members of society.' They are still suffering from the generational effects of years of humiliation and prejudice. Sorry is just the beginning...

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Bleeding Heart
February 10th, 2008

With you all the way, TassieDevil.

Bleeding Heart.

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Bleeding Heart
February 10th, 2008

Suzie.theway, I contest your statement that "Another fact is that since the beginning of thye Human race of mankind, one group has taken over or invaded another groups homes, lands etc, and all have benefited by this mixing of cultures". There are plentiful examples of ethnic cleansing throughout ancient, modern and contemporary history that clearly illustrate that not all have benefited, and that, in fact, some have profited at the expense of others.

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Bleeding Heart
February 10th, 2008

John, please explain yourself!

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Roger
February 11th, 2008





Since it's "in vogue" at the moment - here it is..the APOLOGY Kevin Rudd should be giving to the aboriginals!!

We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.

We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.

We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.

We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.

We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.

We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments.

We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats, firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.

We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever. We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.

We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.

We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.

We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.

We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.

For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready.


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John Wright
February 11th, 2008

I am very excited at the Gov's decision.. We've waited so long. The coaltion too... Wow!!!!!

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Elizabeth
February 11th, 2008

Sad to BE sorry
Glad to SAY sorry

Proud at last to be Australian!

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Carolyn Green
February 11th, 2008

Wow! won't it be wonderful to live in an Australia that has finally matured enough as a nation to be able to say sorry for its past Governments' mistakes.

Without claiming that this is a personal indictment of every non-indigenous Australian, past and present generations of Australians have, through their inaction, allowed this divisive situation to continue.

Roll on Wednesday. It's about time we got there. Let's have unity instead!


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Rodin
February 11th, 2008

It surprised me that I would think so deeply about the meaning of "Sorry". It should be simple, a gret injustice was done to many. Is it for me to ask, "what difference will it make?". We hear so much about how important it is to the whole Aboriginal Nation. If a simple word like "sorry" will achieve everything it is supposed to, then that will be a tremendous step forward, so I will support it but I will also watch and wait for some kind of evidence that indeed the much hoped for change in the lives of all those affected will manifest. Now that would be wonderful.

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Kamerra Kamerra
February 11th, 2008

In the words of the great legendary singer songwriter, Annie Lennox;

“Maybe I keep searching but I don’t know what it means
all the fires of destruction just keep burning in my dreams
theres no water that can wash away this longing to come clean”

The word ‘sorry’ won’t wash away our deepest longings and neither will monetary compensation.
The Monetary System only Recycles the Human Being. Of course there is water for our cleansing, but we gotta fly to the moon to find that water. Which basically means it’s a personal and spiritual journey to a much higher spiritual plain.
If we find ourselves stuck between a rock and a hard place, we have to go deep within ourselves to seriously analyse our situation. The Irish temperament will shout and scream at the rock and the English temperament will make pathetic pleas but the rock won’t move.
Politicians will deal with the situation politically. Everything the white man gives us is loaded with an extremely deadly and dangerous poison. At this very minute the labour government is trying to find a way to stuff the poison in the word ‘sorry’..
Australia is still a State of Lies, Theft and Genocide.

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shaggy dog
February 11th, 2008

I am one of the white stolen generation if there is such a thing.
Raised in an institution back in the 1940s and 1950s, it was rugged as compared to life today no doubt.
It was the way it was back then.
If you want doing it tough go have a look at the way things are in many other countries.
No matter what your background is you can make a go of it in Australia at some level.
Not the case in many other parts of the world.
Sorry, feel sorry for those who really do struggle, who have no choices at all, where being killed by the end of day is a real possibility, where there is no hope, no furure at all.
Shaggy Dog.

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GilliM
February 11th, 2008

I support recognition by the Government that earlier removal policies were wrong and believe that the formal apology is a symbolic gesture that will begin to address the trauma and suffering that Indigenous people have experienced. I also believe that a national apology is an important part of the broader reconciliation process between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians.

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Phil
February 11th, 2008

I'm pleased most Australians respect each other enough to support this apology. It is sad that many are still hung up about it. Roger, for example. I wonder if he supports the invasion of Darfur as a means to bring prosperity to those villagers who survive. According to Roger's logic, the refugees who have seen all of their family raped and murdered but who get citizenship in a new country should be grateful to the Sudanese government for their new home, language and employment opportunities! Come on Australia, don't be so ungrateful to a group of people who really deserve recognition. There's room enough for other issues at a later date.

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Common Sense
February 11th, 2008

Two points:

(1) How is it appropriate for someone like myself, a first-generation Australian (my parents migrated here from Africa in the 1980s before I was born) to say "sorry" for something which neither I, nor they, had any hand in? I can understand an apology coming from the Australian Government as an institution, for its misguided and harmful policies of the past, but trying to rope every member of the Australian population into the chorus is insulting (to everyone involved) and farcical. As of the year 2000, one quarter of Australia's population were born overseas. Add to that the number who have been born here to immigrants who arrived long after the policies were abolished. What could it possibly mean to the Aboriginal people for people like us to say "sorry"? It's absurd.

(2) While I (and I'm sure the vast majority of people today) agree that forcibly removing children from their families is a terrible thing to do, I object to the constant misrepresentation of those policies as based in evil, malicious intent. Yes - it was very, very wrong to take children from their families, everyone can see that now, but the reality is that it was done with the intention of providing a "better" life for those children. Let's not forget that there were many non-Aboriginal children who saw the same fate - taken from their families and placed into institutions, sometimes where they faced horrors worse than where they'd come from, but sometimes where they were presented with opportunities (e.g.: education) they would never have seen if the government hadn't intervened in their lives. (Do only dark-skinned people deserve an apology?) Let's not get hysterical about how "evil" it all was. It was wrong, but it was not a policy rooted in racist hatred for the Aboriginal people. More fair to say it was a policy rooted in patriarchal ideas and in a sense, rooted in empathy for the Aboriginal people as fellow human beings entitled to the same chance at a "better" life as any would want. Maybe the 'powers that be' of the time got the definition of "better" wrong, but the truth is that at the time, they thought it was the right thing to do.

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Cherry Hayes
February 11th, 2008

I still think that many members of the general public still don't know what happened to the "stolen generations". We are a society dominated by media. It is the media's responsibility to drive the campaign of awareness and instill in the general populace a desire to say sorry for what happened. Current affairs programs should run stories to explain what happened - there are people who can tell their stories. There needs to be some form of financial assistance to those that suffered.

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sarah thomas
February 11th, 2008

I am so glad the govewrnment is taking the action needed to reconcile past wrongs. I am personally full of sorrow for what the stolen generation has endured and hope this symbolic gesture can begin a healing process.

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Common Sense
February 11th, 2008

Re Cherry Hayes:

I think you'll find that pretty much everyone knows what happened to the "stolen generations". You would have to have been living under a rock to not have heard the horror stories. The resistance to saying "sorry" is not because people aren't aware of what happened, it's because they (quite rightly) don't feel responsible for it and therefore struggle to see the point in their saying "sorry" for something they had no part in. Recognising that it happened and acknowledging the grief it caused - fair enough. But saying "sorry" for something that someone else did? I don't think any amount of media driven campaigns could make that make sense.

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Sharyn Proctor
February 11th, 2008

When I was 6&7 my only freinds in pimary school were "stolen children". We were told they were orphans and they lived at Kolbrook Home SA.
They were my freinds because I was dark too.
Thats how it was or how the children were taught some how.
Anyhow they were moved to another school, and I did not see them again. I was left to suffer the cruelty of the other girls for years. I was called a "brown sack of potatoes". I am not Kouri but suffered as if I were.
I remember getting my black doll and covering her with talcom powder to make her white. The rubber went funny and I was so guilty for it.
I loved my friends. Being left behind was sad and painfull.
This atrosity affected many, so the "sorry" should be to all who were effected by the shamefull normality we were to accept from the government of that day.

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Shaggy Dog
February 11th, 2008

I do not think a sorry would mean a damn thing to me for the treatment received way back when, compensation is not the answer either.
It is a matter of coming to terms with the things that happen to you as you go through life.
I do not mean a nonchalant shrug of the shoulders but you do have to have some acceptance of the hand you have been dealt and play it as best you can. You can not spend the rest of the game blaming the dealer.
Get on with it, make the most of it, living back there aint going to help you one little bit. It just enforces the resentment.

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John Barr
February 11th, 2008

I see by the latest news release that the apology IS all about compensation for the greedy.

The Australian Government has spent tens of Billions of taxpayers Dollars trying to improve the lives of Aboriginal people in the last decade. Where has all this money gone? I don't see any improvement in individual Aboriginal lifestyles. Well except for the managers of these funds. Strange how the Pigs at the top get fat while all those at the bottom get rotting tomatoes.

As for paying compensation. Definately not! They have already had it payed over & over.

Let's have some equal rights. Once the apology is made all Aboriginal departments should be scrapped. All Australian of all discriptions should be treated equal with no favors for any particular group.

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Bruce Page Penong
February 11th, 2008

I have listened to the arguements for and against saying "Sorry"to the so called "Stolen" Generation for as many years as this debate has been going on, and I wish the advocates of saying "Sorry" would get united in their expectations. Some have said they are not looking for compensation, some are and it seems the closer it gets to Rudd saying "sorry" the more we are hearing about compensation. My opion is the two should not be related,I see no reason not to say "Sorry" for what happened, but I disagree with compensation unless you want to sort out the ones that are better off by being taken away from some of the horrific situations they were living under. We don't expect the ones that have done well from being "stolen" to repay the government. What about including the "white" Australians that have been "Stolen" because their parents wouldn't or couldn't look after them properly.Over my lifetime, Govt's have done numerous things that have me plenty of greif, hardship, loss of opportunity and income and financial expense, but I know how much compensation I will be entitled to!!!!

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Chris
February 11th, 2008

I am amazed how many people say they see no need for an apology because they, personally, have done no wrong. Can each of them (Common Sense, Harry Bibby etc)really say they have never felt comforted when someone else said to them that they were sorry - perhaps about the death of a relative, or diagnosis of a disease, or just some rotten luck.
I am overjoyed the government is going to say sorry, on my behalf - as it proves Australia feels mature enough at last to be sorry and say sorry, even though most people living today bear no responsibility. We're just desperately sorry!!

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Peter
February 11th, 2008

"Sorry". We use it all the time.

For example "I was sorry to hear your mother passed away".

That doesn't mean I am accepting responsibility for her death.

I am sorry to hear that millions of Jews and Gypsies were murdered during WWII. I'm certainly not to blame for it.

I'm sorry when I hear what happened to indigenous Australians. I'm not to blame for it. But I can certainly recognise that the policy of the government at the time of removing children from their homes on the criteria of racial appearance must have caused severe trauma to the children removed as well as to their families. To pretend otherwise is to deny their humanity. That's why I support the Parliament saying sorry.


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rikki
February 11th, 2008

The way the term 'stolen generations' is currently being used is wrong. I was there when it was first coined in 1993. Unlike people who are taken from their families (or like the orphans taken from England during WW2 to save their lives)and who may have had a hard time growing up, when Aboriginal kids were removed, not only does the community/family lose a beloved member and a mother lose her child, Aboriginal culture has effectively had all the following generations stolen - that's the stolen generations. It was Howard's advisors who first misused it when he needed an excuse NOT to apologise - as no whole generations had been stolen there was nothing to be sorry about.

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Common Sense
February 11th, 2008

Chris - then I guess it's a question of semantics. What's the difference between saying "sorry" and an "apology"?

Dictionary definition of "apology":
1. What you say when you regret saying or doing something affecting others.
2. A formal justification, defence.

Dictionary definition of "sorry":
1. Possessing sorrow or regret.
2. Poor, sad or regrettable.

Maybe the difference between the two words ("apology" and "sorry") needs to made clearer: i.e.: we're only saying "sorry" in the sympathetic sense, which does not mean we accept responsibility for what happened.

Regardless, while I accept that this is a symbolic gesture that may go some way to healing grievances and relations between Aboriginal and 'white' Australia, I feel that in the grand scheme of things it has been blown out of proportion and the reality of what happened has been distorted to a hysterical degree. I reiterate the points I made in my first post.

To add to those I ask - how much time and money should be spent on demanding public, formal 'apologies' and/or "sorry"s from the Government for past actions? Not just from Aboriginal people, but from any group who feels they were treated unfairly in the past. Should all women get together and demand an apology for the fact that they weren't allowed to vote/have access to decent education/work until the turn of last century?

My personal view is that all the money, effort, time and energy that has been spent on getting the Prime Minister to stand on the lawn in Canberra and say the word "sorry" for the actions of men who were in power before he was born (despite "regret" for those policies having already been expressed on behalf of the Australian Government by Howard) would have been far better spent on improving the lives of Aboriginal people today.

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Common Sense
February 11th, 2008

Peter - how many children were removed from their homes purely and solely based "on the criteria of racial appearance"? I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I think you will find that in the overwhelming majority of cases, there were other contributing criteria that led to their removal, including welfare, health, access to education, etc.

This is what really irritates me about the misrepresentation of the issue. Kate O'Toole introduced the topic on Triple J's hack program with something very close to these lines (I don't have a transcript so going by memory):

"Imagine you're 2 or 3 years old, just a kid, maybe 5. You're taken away from your mother, your family, your home - not because your mum doesn't love you or anything like that, but because of the colour of your skin."
She then continued to press the point that kids were removed from their families purely because they had dark skin. That is a ridiculous over-simplification of the issue. Children (black and white) were removed from their families when it was thought that they would be better off being brought up in institutions where they had access to education than in the relative poverty and isolation of their communities. We now see that it was wrong, but to talk about the issue like it was based on some sort of superstitious targeting of people with epidermis of a darker hue is unfair.

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peter
February 11th, 2008

Dear Common Sense,

Children have been removed from their homes over a long period for a variety of reasons, including parental abuse and neglect. That is not what we are talking about here. What we are talking about is a deliberate policy of children of mixed parentage from their families (mother, siblings, aunties, uncles etc) for no reason other than they were what was referred to as half caste children. That is the child may have been living happily (in poverty I agree) with their family and been subject to removal simply because they were of mixed parentage. Don't take my word for it it's all documented here: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/hreoc/stolen/. Now your point that other factors may have influenced the decision is an interesting one. The reality is that welfare officers weren't removing kids from their white middle class families in the leafy eastern suburbs of adelaide without satisfying a court that the child was in some sort of danger. There was no such process with the kids we are talking about here. They were simply removed.

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Vashti Jamieson
February 11th, 2008

Hello,i believe it is about time that the goverment said
''Sorry'' to the Stolen Generations.

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Peter Grant
February 11th, 2008

I am not surprised that the Get Up Community is so divided over this issue. While I am happy to say sorry, I not not think that it should be at the expense of mythologizing the past. I think the government has rushed into this and botched it badly. It has not united people but divided. The issue of the so called stolen generation should be separated from land dispossession and massacres of the 18th and 19th centuries. This however needs to be put in historical context. The issue of compensation has clouded the issue. It think there are a whole lot of wanna be `stolen' people whose only interest is to get their snouts in the trough. This issue should have been dealt with sensitively rather than to score political brownie points. The Howard government failed but the Rudd government has stuffed this up.

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Shaggy Dog
February 11th, 2008

Peter,
I dont recall living in a leafy middle class suburb at any time and I dont think any of my compatriots came from that sort of background. The comment is a wee bit insulting.
Your comments are a bit simplistic as regards the issues of the time.
What has been written from both sides of the fence is a bit distorted to suit whoever was telling the story and recording it for that matter.
The experiences of all those concerned was deeply individual in its effects, some with hard noses shrugging it off, others, it had a profound effect on them no doubt.
To lump us all in as a "Stolen Generation" is too simple and a universal apology is a gratuitous political ploy.
If you ever have the chance sit down and talk to those involved , one at a time,no matter what their colour, you will find no two stories the same. The experience belongs with the individuals it should not be some full blown production to make those so inclined to feel warm and fuzzy by saying sorry.
The sorry ,if necessary ,should be in the way we treat each other day to day not in some Parliametary Panoramic Production.

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Peter
February 11th, 2008

Dear Shaggy,

My point was that the stolen generation issue is quite distinct from the issue of kids being removed after due process because of issues like neglect or abuse. If the way I expressed that view offended you I apologise. I have scrolled down and read your story. I don't know why you were separated from your family, but I am sorry that - for whatever reason - you didn't have the same sort of childhood I did (ie one shared with brothers, sisters and both parents).

But Shaggy the injustices you suffered, don't make the injustice meted out to others any less real. Lets say sorry to them and do whatever we need to do to move on together. After that we can look at other systemic injustices.


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AshleyF
February 11th, 2008

It would be interesting to see how many of those who feel no sense of sorrow are of homogeneous family origins.

My progeny are Eurasian, and it makes my stomach turn to think of my child being removed because I am of the wrong race and colour.

Then again, it couldn't happen here again , in Australia, could it??
Could it..??
First they came for the communists, and I remained silent..

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Alex
February 11th, 2008

This is long overdue and while it may seem like a bandaid to some, for others it has very deep significance. Perhaps if we all took a moment to reflect on the wrongs of the past we would see that doing at least one thing right is a step forward. And we have people like Xavier Rudd touring the world and proudly talking to audiences in north America, Europe and soon Japan and Asia about the indigenous people of Australia; their culture, their spirits, their respect for the land. If we all felt the same depth of pride and respect for our Aboriginal people as Xavier does, there would be deeper understanding. Peace in Unity.

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geekay
February 11th, 2008

Let's not get too pretty about this "stolen" hysteria.

It's not hard to find data and experiences where half-caste children, when born and seen by the parents had their heads smashed against the nearest rock to keep their mob "pure".

As awful and cruel as this sounds, it happened and was part of the rationale for removal by the authorities...fanciful figures of between 1 in 10 to 3 in 10 "removed" show the lack of data to base the bleeding hearts arguments on.

Where is the "thank you" for a soft entry into civilisation the Europeans brought to the indigenous persons in Australia in the 1770's ...Who could have done it "better" and why...?



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Amelia
February 12th, 2008

To me, it doesn't matter whether the past government policies of removing children from their families were right, wrong, successful or unsuccessful, misguided, a sign of the times ...etc. These are arguments that will continue to be debated and there are as many answers as there were children taken.

I am sorry that children were taken from their parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts and uncles. These children never had the opportunity to grow up surrounded by those material and non-material aspects of family life - aspects which give us our sense of who we are and where we fit into the scheme of things. Whether those opportunities would have meant that those children grew up as functioning, contributing members of society ... or not. This is irrelevant.

I am just sorry that they were denied that chance.


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Luke
February 12th, 2008

AUSTRALIAN APOLOGY TO THE ABORIGINAL POPULATION

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language, thus opening up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace the animal skins you used before.
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
We apologise for paying off your vehicles when you fail to pay the instalments.
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.
We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
We apologise for allowing taxpayers money to be paid towards a daughters’ wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter).
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.
We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the “uncle toms” in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.
We do apologise. We really do.
We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.
We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the “outback”, whenever you are ready

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Geraldine Hughes
February 12th, 2008

We provide doctors and services for all Australians as a right. What I want our government to be apologising for is the generational damage done for removing children from families because they were of mixed race, or just because they were Aborignial. If, God forbid, we were invaded with beings with advanced weaponry, our languages lost and suppressed and our families torn apart by the new ( and 200 years is new compared to 40,000 years),laws based on the fact of our race, then we might understand. I don't think we ever can truly understand, but we can be sorry.

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jai
February 12th, 2008

As usual the whole issue has been clouded by media hype and good ole fashioned aussie bigotry. It is not the current people of Australia that is being asked to apologise to the aboriginal nation. It is the australian government finally maturing and recognising that a step forward in the reconciliation process is to apologise for past policies that have had a resounding negative affect on many aboriginal families. Yes it is doing it partly due to consistent lobbying from the aboriginal community but also because of widespread support from the non-indigenous population. How can you not want to support a government taking responsibilty for its actions (past or present)?Lets face it doesn't happen very often. What can it hurt to make this geture so we can get on with trying to live better with each other and rectifying the disgraceful shortfall in Aboriginal community health. If you don't personally want to say sorry, then thats your right. You can quite happily go on living in your dream world with the Luke's and Rogers of this world that believe that the modern, western, white Australian culture is a civilised eutopia that those ungrateful indigenous folk just can't seem to appreciate and get over it!

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Peter
February 12th, 2008

Luke, I thought the apology to the stolen generations was for removing them from their families. If you take the time to read the minutes of the conference of Commonwealth & State Aboriginal Authorities held in Canberra in 1937 you will see what was going on. it is available on the internet: Search for it on Google. Read it.

That conference decided that 'the destiny of the natives of aboriginal origin, but not of the full blood, lies in their ultimate absorption by the people of the Commonwealth, and it therefore recommends that all efforts be directed to that end'.

What did they mean by this? Well at page 17 it says:

"It is infinitely better to take a child from its mother, and
put it in an institution, where it will be looked after,
than to allow it to be brought up subject to the
influence of such camps. Wo allow the mothers to go
to the institutions also, though they are separated from
the children. The mothers are camped some distance
away, while the children live in dormitories. The
parents may go out to work, and return to see that
their children are well and properly looked after. We
generally find that, after a few months, they are quite
content to leave their children there".

So even if the mums really were content to leave their children there (as opposed to merely accepting they weren't going to get "it" back). We have a situation where the government was intent of removing children of mixed parentage from their mothers.

That warrants an apology.

I also searched for any evidence of some of the things you raise. I couldn't find any evidence of paying $8,000 for daughters weddings or of paying out car loans. I gave up at that point. Can you supply sources for these things.

Peter


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Common Sense
February 12th, 2008

Jai-

I'm generally the first to lament the horrors of modern western civilisation...

However, in COMPARISON to the average life of an Aboriginal person prior to European settlement (or "invasion" if you wish) I most definitely DO think that Australia today is a "civilised utopia". Why do some people hate progress so much? I can understand the romantic notions of a life 'at one with nature', but the reality is that nature is cruel. The dismal state of Aboriginal health at the moment, admittedly much of it contributed to by the 'white fella' import of alcohol, most definitely needs to be brought up to scratch, but you are kidding yourself if you think Aboriginal people had an easier life 10,000 years ago. Their average life span may be 17 years behind that of a non-Indigenous Australian person, but it's still older than it was pre-settlement.

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Common Sense
February 12th, 2008

PLEASE READ NOEL PEARSON'S ARTICLE IN THE AUSTRALIAN NEWSPAPER TODAY: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23196221-28737,00.html

Because he is able to comment on Indigenous issues with a fair and balanced and realistic tone, instead of the 'evil white fella' hysteria that so many others insist on, that man evokes more empathy for the Aboriginal people than anyone else.

Because he can recognise that the impact of 'white' settlement on Indigenous culture and people is an extremely complex issue, one that holds positives as well as negatives, he goes further than any other person in making non-Indigenous Australia truly appreciate the wrongs suffered by Aboriginal people.

Noel Pearson epitomises the approach that needs to be taken to heal the relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australia.

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Peter Graham
February 12th, 2008

I read all the previous blogs and, except for a few from those with firmly closed minds, born of ignorance, it obvious that most agree that an Apology is not only warranted but a good thing. To those of us alive today who didn't take part in the atrocities perpetrated against our Indigenous brothers, our expression of deep regret through our Parliament can, and should be seen as the beginning of a real, rather than "practical" reconciliation.
As for some dinosaurs in the opposition who are still splitting hairs about whether there was a stolen generation, it is not important whether it was bad government policy or good intentions by churches that caused the outrage. The fact is, that great harm was done and generations were truly stolen. These generations were denied any choice in their mode of life, were indoctrinated into a religion inimical to their ancient cultures, and, in many cases were physically and mentally abused.
They deserve an Apology and will get one from our Parliament and those of us who wish to endorse it wholeheartedly, as I do.

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I\'m Sorry - Pam
February 12th, 2008

It's good that saying Sorry has created so much discussion, but disappointing that other issues have been brought in to cloud the intent of the Apology. In the histories of all countries and groups of people we will find both good and bad, kind and cruel. Health, money, housing and poisoned flour - issues such as these are not relevant to the Apology. The government wishes to apologise for the harm caused by the policy of past governments where children were taken from their families. Some outcomes may have been good but we know for certain that many of the stolen generation have suffered in ways that most of us simply cannot comprehend. It is for this that we should be sorry. I certainly am.

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Peter B.
February 12th, 2008

First, I appreciate Helen's comments; they are very sound and balanced, and express some of the key issues. The previous ten years of semantic nitpicking have been an excuse to avoid the truth, and its time we moved forward. We can be sorry for what happened in the past, without implying that we personally were responsable for it. However, based on that history, Australian cultural attitudes have taken a certain shape, which affects us all today. So acknowledging this gives us the opportunity to make a break from that, and do something different. The challenge is, do we as a nation have the guts and maturity to face this - and do what we can to make things better? As others have pointed out, our history is mixed. But for us to move forward into a better, fairer, more inclusive future - in which we can deal honestly and practically with the serious issues facing Aboriginal people and communities - we all need to be part of the change. Kevin Rudd has made a significant start, but it's not just up to the government. As Helen said, it's about forming a partnership, in which the process of healing and reconciliation, and maturity as a nation, can flourish.

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MotherofTwo
February 12th, 2008

If we truly think about the word "SORRY" and how we use in our everyday lives we see it's true meaning. If we ask after someone and they reply with a sad story, such as, someone in their family dying, or being injured, or themselves being ill, it would be good manners and empathetic to reply "I am sorry to hear that". It's the same situation now. I, personally as a mother, am filled with dread that mothers and a children were separated aswell as other family members. Imagine what it must have been like for the Indigenous people's to have been living here for more than 40,000 years and to have strangers arrive, take over your land and remove you from your home, introduce diseases, strange animals, food and smells. It's enough to make one sick. Imagine how we would feel now if a spaceship landed in the Botanical Gardens of Sydney and aliens came out and took all the children they wanted..... just imagine it and however that makes you feel is a millions times worse for the original human beings who have caretakered this land for 40,000 years BEFORE the white fella rocked up. I am, truly sorry for all the suffering this has caused my fellow human beings. I wish Australia much peace and happiness.

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janny
February 13th, 2008

What rock do you live under, Luke? A bloody big one.

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John Barr
February 13th, 2008

I have investigated what Luke posted. From what I have found & my own personal knowedge, I can verify about 75% of that list. Some of it is pure crap. Some of it is sort of true. The rest is real.

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Peter
February 13th, 2008

John mate, Don't hide your light under a bushel. Which bits are true? What is the evidence? Tell us so we can look it up too. Convince us that we are being mislead.

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Alex
February 13th, 2008

May the historical events of this morning forge the way forward to national understanding and respect of our Indigenous culture.
Peace in Unity

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Peter
February 13th, 2008

What was Brendon Nelson thinking?

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Shaggy Dog
February 13th, 2008

Peter,
So much of it comes down to personal experience, some were badly affected, some were not.
I watched Helen on the 7.30 report last night and can name many white kids in institutions way back when who had a far harder time of it, especially some of the kids from U.K.
Injustice is something that does not sit well with me,in any shape or form and not only that directed at me, any injustice is a bad thing especially when it comes to children.
My reservations come down to the whole exercise being something to make the non involved feel warm and fuzzy. The cynicism of Governments of any stripe are recognised, let us wait and see just how effective this has all been and will it really make any difference in the long term.
It really comes down to you and me and every other member of the community to make sure that we give all and sundry a fair shake, leave it to Government grandstanding and I am afraid disappointment will be the only outcome.
I have spent many years in the bush so to speak and my cynicism arises from observing the lack of committment by Governments of various persuasions,sadly ,despite all the pomp and ceremony I do not think there will be any change unless the changes are rung by those involved. They have to want it enough to go and get it themselves, relying on any Government will not provide a solution, sorries are soon forgotten and compensation is too easily spent.

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Richard Ure
February 13th, 2008

John Barr says: "The Australian Government has spent tens of Billions of taxpayers Dollars trying to improve the lives of Aboriginal people in the last decade. Where has all this money gone? I don't see any improvement in individual Aboriginal lifestyles. Well except for the managers of these funds. Strange how the Pigs at the top get fat while all those at the bottom get rotting tomatoes."

He then says: "As for paying compensation. Definately not! They have already had it payed over & over."

If two different people expressed those views, perhaps one could understand the confusion. But when one person says it in consecutive sentences, one sees how far the journey still has to go to finish the business part of sorry business. In other words, giga bucks have failed to reach their destination. On whom does that reflect? The giver, the intended recipient or the actual recipient?

The Law Society has said, and any lawyer would have told you, the question of the apology has nothing to do with any common law rights to damages. If anything, an apology can reduce the quantum of the damage which is why they are so common in defamation proceedings.

A compensation fund to handle ex gratia payments is more likely to see the money end in the pockets of those affected rather than the "managers" of whom John is so critical if every case were to be fought to the death as the Commonwealth has done in relation to Voyager/Melbourne survivors and Cornelia Rau.

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Joan Smiley
February 13th, 2008

This is a wonderful historic day. Thank you to all those who have worked so hard to make it happen. Of course it is just the beginning but let us hope that soon life for every indigenous person will improve so much that they will all be proud to say they are Australian

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Max Merckenschlager
February 13th, 2008

These last few days I have felt cleansed of the shame which I've felt for some years, to be an Australian citizen. Yes, we've only just begun. But there is a feeling in the air that tells me - THIS TIME!

If any blog reader cares to check out, and maybe download copy and pass around my "Sorry Day Song" from my website www.scriptsongs.com ... go for it.

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Helena
February 13th, 2008

how wonderful and what a relief, it was a long time coming
well done Kevin Rudd
we can move on in hope

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Jody Knight
February 13th, 2008

Well what a great day this is ! I may now be able to feel a little bit better about my place as a non-indigenous person in this wonderful land we are priviliged to share. I've waited a long time to hear someone in goverment say what should have been said long ago. Thankyou Mr Rudd. Ever since I was a child that wittnessed an aboriginal man being pushed out of the front of a pub in Glenelg SA in about 1975 have I been disgusted with the way our indigenous population have been treated. I was about 9 years old and couldn't understand why the other men in the pub were being so mean, this man wasn't drunk, he was dressed nicely, & all he wanted was to have a drink with the other men in the pub. I asked the man why were they being like that & he told me that it was because he was a "black fella" I was so puzzled & confused. I grew up & noticed the other injustices that these wonderful people have suffered. I am glad that we have finally made an apology for the awful things that have gone on in the past. Hopefully the future will bring the rich rewards that only peace and understanding can offer. We live in what I consider to be the best place on Earth, we can all make it better still by extending love to our fellow men & women regardless of race or religion or any other barrier we have created. I was recently very priveliged to be invited by the wonderful Beverly Hand to the 2nd Anual Bunya Festival held at Baroon Pocket Dam & had a great time. I hope more people could experience the culture of these proud people they certainly have so much to offer us if we are willing to notice. I know there are other Australains who think like I do so we all have to stand up for our selves and ask for more of the Aboriginal Culture to be taught in schools, to be available to us in many ways. Thankyou to the people who helped make today a great day for our future.

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Jane Vita
February 13th, 2008

What an important day, how late but how welcome. In the European culture where I grew up, it is unusual to experience such a momentous and historic day. It is the stuff of history textbooks!! I feel that a barrier disappeared, one that made me apprehensive about approaching Aboriginal people (when you find out that they are, since you cannot always tell), not knowing what their attitudes are on these issues, how to speak as a white Australian, and whether my comments would be interpreted as fake. Today gives me an opportunity to acknowledge the painful history and to put it behind me, and in a strange way to begin to be free of feeling guilty and responsible for what I didn't do. Congratulations, Australians, for the gesture, and to Kevin Rudd for listening to us.

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John Barr
February 13th, 2008

Thanks for your comment Richard.

If two different people expressed those views, perhaps one could understand the confusion. But when one person says it in consecutive sentences, one sees how far the journey still has to go to finish the business part of sorry business. In other words, giga bucks have failed to reach their destination. On whom does that reflect? The giver, the intended recipient or the actual recipient?

I doubt weather the giver can be blamed directly. The Government has tried with various schemes over many years to help Aboriginal people. This has been to no avail because of the following reasons, to name just a few.

1. Government Department, Duplication, Disinterest, Infighting, Inactivity.
2. Public Service red tape.
3. Corruption in White Organizations looking after Aboriginal Organizations.
4. Corruption in Aboriginal Organizations.
5. Politicaly Correct Do Gooders interferance in schemes that would have solved problems.
6. Inquiry after inquiry with no results.
7. Lawyers.
8. Over paid consultants.
9. Aboriginal CEO skimming the pot.
10.And again Lawyers.

Result, All the money to help the Aboriginal people has been used up.

A compensation fund to handle ex gratia payments is more likely to see the money end in the pockets of those affected rather than the "managers" of whom John is so critical.

To coin a phrase in the most PC way. "Bovine excreta". The rightfull receiptants will never receive anything, or very little. The Lawyers will have a field day. The Managers & CEOs of Aboriginal funds will still rip off the funds, with the help of Lawyers in the most legal way possible, of course.

if every case were to be fought to the death as the Commonwealth has done in relation to Voyager/Melbourne survivors

Now there is a disgrace.

and Cornelia Rau.

As far as this lady goes she should have been put into an appropriate institution, if there was one. Seeing that the PC Do Gooders have had them all closed, there was no place for her to go. I really wonder why anyone take the slightest notice of the stupid people & their wacky ideas. They should be all told to F/off whhen they open their mouths.

I support the Apology. I do not support Compensation. But we will see the money grubbing Lawyers crawl out of the woodwork in droves now. And who will be the ones fighting hardest for Compensation, Aboriginal Fund Managers & CEOs & the like. You can just bet on it.

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Sherrill
February 13th, 2008

At last we have a prime minister who is a statesman rather than just a politician. It has been an emotional day for all Australians who know this 'sorry' is long overdue - I can't imagine how emotional it must be for indigenous Australians. Congratulations and may this be the first step to getting it right for the owners of this country.

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John Barr
February 13th, 2008

Well now that the sorry bit is all over I see Dodson & his like (see CEOs & Managers) have got their hands out, making a grab, already.

To be expected, I suppose.

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Bridget McKern
February 13th, 2008

Thanks so much to all those countless volunteers who lit those beautiful candles on Parliament lawn - and lall those who prepared for this momentous occasion today.

We who were not able to be there were embracing you in our hearts as now we can all be proud to call ourselves Australians instead of feeling the shame of the last eleven years of resistance to this moment.

I am so happy for all the genuine healing I saw in the faces and voices of the Stolen Generation families (true Spritual Warriors) who have stood firm in the faith that this must happen in spite of the delay.

I wonder how quickly we can all grow in this new reconciliation and become the people we were meant to be - perhaps now we can claim our true independence and identity.

Thanks for showing us all the way forward.

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Lola
February 13th, 2008

At last.This is a step towards healing.Wonderfully expressed by the Prime Minister.Today I don't feel that horrible feeling of embarrassment that I felt everytime John Howard spoke about this issue.History will show, I hope,that it takes courage to say sorry.

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jenni
February 13th, 2008

that was beautiful.
just thought i'd let everyone who sees this know, that there is a poll on ninemsn.com.au asking people whether they agreed with Kevin Rudd's apology. a staggering majority have voted NO. i think the poll needs some attention!!!

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Brian
February 13th, 2008

Thank goodness this has at last happened.
I am not a weepy kind of person, but this has touched me in a way nothing else has for a VERY long time.
As a white Australian I have felt the impact of this even more than I had expected.
I wish all Indiginous Australian's well in the future and trust they can feel "at home" in their Land again.

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Chris Anonymous
February 13th, 2008

a great apology video here.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9mJpL67QUw

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Richard Ure
February 14th, 2008

While enjoying the euphoria of yesterday's events, it is distressing to dwell on the fact we share this country with Alan Jones and his listeners http://tinyurl.com/32g68o.

Apology deniers and Wilson Tuckey should be asked to compare and contrast their attitudes to James Hardie (using asbestos allowed houses to be built when materials were scarce or expensive) with the policies of previous governments towards fibbing to children when they were torn from their families allegedly in their interests ("it was all before my time").

These views come from those who believe in the idea "we must destroy the village to save it."

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Peter
February 14th, 2008

Richard, I agree. Listening to talk-back radio and looking at the negative posts on this site I have identified a number of schools of thought on the issue.

Group A The Denialists: These people despite all the evidence to the contrary insist it didn't happen. They usually accept that children were removed but say the kids were removed for their own protection. The stolen generation are nothing more than a subset of a large group of children (white and black) who were removed for child protection reasons. Andrew Bolt seems to be the intellectual engine room for this group. The problems with their argument are (1) that the kids were removed not only from their family but from their culture, (2) the victims were removed rather than the offenders, and (3) it is well documented that welfare authorities focussed on children of mixed parentage.

Group B 'Yes but look at all the good we did for you': They usually argue that the kids had a whole new world of opportunities open up for them as a result of being removed. Effectively they are saying it's OK to remove a child from the family if this results in better opportunities. Today we wouldn't accept a situation where high income couples could justify stealing a child from a poor family by pointing out the child is going to get better health care and educational opportunities. But that is defence these people are offering up. A variation on this theme is that we brought so many benefits to you as a group, you should be thanking us and not asking us to apologise for stealing your kids. Luke's post below is an example of this school of thought. No doubt they'd agree with the proposition that China should thank Japan for giving them a better railway system during WW2. Somehow I don't think so.

Group C The Relativists: Their argument goes there are other groups who have been mistreated (eg the UK Child Migrants) and we haven't apologised to them so we shouldn't apologise to these people either. I sympathise with these other disadvantaged groups, but what they say isn't really an argument not to say sorry - it just tells us there are other groups who deserve an apology.

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Shaggy Dog
February 14th, 2008

Peter,
I am not too sure if you have me listed in one of your categories.
My reservations have little to do with saying sorry, it is more to do with how and by whom and just how effective it will be in the long term for the bulk of indigenous people who are not of the stolen generation.
I have lived close up to the problems for many years and have yet to see a "fix" of ant any sort work, well intentioned or no.
Hence I say it comes down to you and me to make it work, I have opened my door to quite a few indigenous people and will continue to do so, race is not an issue with me. I take people as they come.
Do not rely on any Government to solve this problem as you will be disappointed, if we all acquired one indigenous friend or associate we would solve many problems.
The solutions should come from the people, you and me.

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Shaggy Dog,
February 14th, 2008

Peter,
I have just reread your last comment, obviously from what you have written you have a great deal of first hand experience with indigenous problems.
My apologies, you obviously know where I am coming from with my comments, getting to know the other person well makes one hell of a difference as you are obviously well aware.

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victoria pearson
February 14th, 2008

i too was taken from my mother back in 1969 i was lied to on my birth certificate that claimed i was scotish and russian,it took 37 years to find my identity and i always felt that being adopted into a british family that are cold emotionally and never showed any physical affections towards eachother or myself as a child had a major effect on my spirit..it is a huge leap forward that the australian goverment has stood up to the plate and apologised for all the attrocities of the past..i have never comprehended the christian dogma the forefarthers used to seperate the indiginious families..christ never claimed any possesion as his own,even his heart belonged to the creator..stealing land from others,murdering and turning these beautiful people into slaves is not christian..our spiritual culture goes back 60 000 years and these falls in conscioussness that have fallen 6 times have still yet to evolve..but it will happen..it is the divine spirit within us all that rid this darkness that has encopassed our souls for generations..we are a wonderful nation with so much potential to govern ourselves,to love eachother and bring out the best in us all..may our future become the now..

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Angela
February 14th, 2008

Yesterday was a momentous day in Australia's history. After listening to the Prime Minister deliver the nation's apology I felt proud to be an Australian for the first time in many years.

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Nancy
February 14th, 2008

Yesterday I spent a little time standing in a group of ordinary Australians, whose country I am so proud to claim to be part of, whose culture I have adopted as my own, thousands of whom quietly listened to their respective political leaders, finally and very eloquently, with great feeling and sincerity, own the downside of their, and my, prosperity, come to terms with it, allow themselves to feel a tiny fragment of what it meant and thereby allowing the indigenous people of this country to move forward with a baby step, to think about and concentrate on saving what is left of their people and culture, so it will not be lost forever, that we can all eventually be whole together as a nation. What happened yesterday will resound around the world and show everyone who can grasp it, what kind of people Australians are. This is really something to start to be proud of.

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John Barr
February 14th, 2008

In reference to Peters Groups:

Group A The Denialists: (2) the victims were removed rather than the offenders,

Spot on the money. I believe that's what is being attemnpted now. But, of course, the PC crowd are objecting furiously.

Group B 'Yes but look at all the good we did for you':

Well yes there was a lot of good done. None of these children would have received any education in their camps. The ones that were removed received an education and now are the ones that have been working in Aboriginal Organizations and some of them have had their hand in the till big time. But because of their education, curtesy of the Orphanages they were sent too, they won the apology and will be looking for compensaton.

Group C The Relativists: Their argument goes there are other groups who have been mistreated (eg the UK Child Migrants) and we haven't apologised to them so we shouldn't apologise to these people either.

This is wrong and a misrepresentation. The white unmarried mothers that had their children stolen from them and the children stolen from Britain during WW2 are entitled to an apology also. If any compensation starts to be paid then these people should be entitled to receive the same. There is no difference between Black or White, to say so is discrimination. That's PC.

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Richard Ure
February 14th, 2008

Victoria Pearson.

Can you (and any others directly affected) contact Andrew Bolt and make your story known? As recently as last weekend on ABC TVs Insiders he was challenging his co-guests to name three stolen people.

In yesterday's Herald Sun column he remains unrepentant.

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Peter
February 14th, 2008

As far as compensation goes the best way to avoid having to pay compensation is to do no wrong. Obviously it's way to late to shut the stable door on this horse. I can remember after the Mabo decision we were told the sky would fall in, the chooks would stop laying etc etc. None of these things happened.

The time has come, to say fair's fair, to pay the rent, to pay our share

There's around 10 million taxpayers in this country. If we all paid an extra $2 per week in taxes that would raise about about $1 billion in a year, for about the price of a pint of beer or a packet of smokes per month. I'm not saying we should have a billion dollar compensation package, maybe it should be more, maybe less. But what I am saying is we could raise a hell of a lot of money without too much sacrifice involved.

Now if we did that we could avoid the alternative - each member of the stolen generation suing separately. The only winners there would be the legal profession.

And if anyone wants to start raving about how we are already paying off their car loans and $8,000 for their daughters weddings could they please say how you get this, what form to fill out etc, etc.



PS: Shaggy,

I reckon you and I are on the same page. I really believe the answer is that everyone who has been damaged ought to get an apology ( which is a separate question to compensation). After a long campaign the stolen generation have an apology. If other groups deserve an apology then rather than complain about the stolen generation they should follow their example.


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Shaggy Dog,
February 14th, 2008

Peter,
I dont require any apology, I think I would have achieved less if I had not been placed in an institution and made a ward of the State.
Mind you I would not have said that 60 odd years ago, the view of a frightened little boy way back then as compared to those of an old fart now are vastly different, the advantage of hindsight ,20/20 and it be in colour.
As I have said before, it is a different experience for all concerned, I can remember a situation way back discussing respective backgrounds with one whose skin was darker than mine, we both thought the other bloke had experienced the tougher ride at the end of the conversation.
Get out there and share experiences, get to know the other bloke, black,white or brindle, it is the only way this sorry will have any effect in the long term, it must be a two way street for it to work. Bugger the government and pollies, they aint the way to go.

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annie
February 17th, 2008

What an amazing time we have been a part of since SORRY day. For the first time ever I was actually proud to be an Australian - I was amazed that this thought dawned on me as Kevin Rudd spoke those words. Tears welled, sadness rose & settled eventually to hope. Hope for the future of this country. A final recognition of the past & present disgrace faced by our indigenous people. We can't afford to sit back now & think all is done. This is just the first step to a healthy future for us all.

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Joy Gaiason
February 22nd, 2008

A wise lady once said to me "without deep sorrow you cannot know compassion". The word sorry and sorrow are inextricably linked. I have always felt deep sorrow for my black brothers and sisters for the racism that they have had hurled at them from every quarter.

"Sorry seems to be the hardest word", as the song goes, how true. I'mure we all know how many conflicts in our own lives could have been resolved with that one little word.

I am so glad that Kevin Rudd made it one of the first things he did after taking office. I know the significance wasn't lost on me.

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JB
February 23rd, 2008

We are now a while away from Sorry Day, and what has happened! The news media seems to me to be very interested in the opposition no matter what they do or how silly and childish their behaviour is. And are the media bias; well who am I to say, but I find it hard to see the balance at this time. But what is in the best interests of the media, I suspect not sorry, it detracts from the daily sucking in of wealth of the powers on high and perhaps unites us, the general every day people, because we all just want to get on with life. Most of us know of sorrow and hardship at times in our life and most of us are just, plain good people.
For myself I am claim my indigenous heritage and my Scottish heritage and my Irish heritage. The latter two, people would assume, most people are shocked that I would be blood related to the oldest living peoples in the world because I am blond, and very Anglo in behaviour. I know who I am and so do my friends but it took my daughter to say,” I want to explore and know who I am and who I belong to” for me to know, she’s right, this needs to be explored and honoured by me. On Sorry Day I cried, I felt like I had a weight lifted, the weight was my own. I cannot begin to know what it was like for those peoples it was directed at, my heart went to you and I know that that is not enough. PS: My son thinks we should make Sorry Day a public holiday. What about it Mr Rudd that would really upset the opposition.

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geekay
February 24th, 2008

Can't the bleeding hearts see the irony of the whole "sorry" thing..?

From the 1770's when the British began considering the removal of selected indigenous children in order to provide better shelter, health, education and welfare, they get condemned.

However, in 2008 when Kevin Rudd states he wants to improve indigenous persons shelter, health, education and welfare he gets applauded..!

Seems to me that that the British tried to get it right a couple of hundred years before Kevin but that's not politically correct to say that is it..?

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First Priority !
February 24th, 2008

GEEKAY MAN !
Who gave the british the right to decide about our well being in the 1770's and in 2008...The british has never been interested in our well being at anytime in history...which planet do you come from GEEKAY ?

The british put this continent and every living thing on this continent into a state of NULL and VOID...a state of DISSOLVE and DISSOLUTION...a state of EMPTY NOTHINGNESS...A DEHYDRATION VACUUM state...

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begnat
March 3rd, 2008

Deafening official silence since the apology...
Where is GetUp's plan for a great national campaign concerning compensation, rehabilitation and reparations for the Stolen Generations? What about a timetable?
We are putting some ideas together at Ground Level.

Begnat

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Naomi C.
March 4th, 2008

I was very moved by the whole ceremony in Parliament House,except for Brendan Nelson's contribution-couldn't believe that a qualified medical practitioner could be so cruel and heartless; a "sorry but" attitude.But what moved me the most was the response of aboriginal people, and after all, it wasn't about me or other non-aboriginal people,it was for those who've suffered so much pain for so long due to such violent and hateful actions.Maybe now, 41 years after the Referendum of 1967, we might all move forward together to address the horrific differences that are blatantly evident between aboriginal people and the broader community - things we demand as our legitimate right in a rich country. I'm still persuing my daily personal campaign to address racism and ignorance wherever and whenever it raises its ugly head.For those who are still in denial, may I suggest they read,Demons at Dusk by Peter Stewart.After 20 years research, the book is about the Massacre at Myall Creek. After about 6 weeks, it's still ingrained into my psyche, and I think of it constantly - a must read!

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geekay
March 5th, 2008

To Naomi C,

Can't you think of just one tiny thing that has benefitted indigenous Australians since 1770 or are you so locked into your narrow, negative view of western society ?

The indigenous persons I saw on the "sorry" broadcast all wore clothing, had hairstyles, jewellery, watches, rings, coats, boots, spoke well and looked well fed. Yet you see fit to only condemn.

Why do "bleeding hearts" refuse to acknowledge the enormous progress that has and continues to occur since 1770 ?

If "bleeding hearts" showed some semblance of a balanced viewpoint then maybe progress would occur quicker.

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Cluster
March 6th, 2008

Well geekay...

Sorry isn't really an irony but is a necessary step in a long hard campaign to NOT right the wrongs of the past, but to fix the current situation. It has been shown in many other colonies to be the an absolutely necessary step. You can't get people motivated or even get them to consider anything when them are not emotionally receptive.

As for "indigenous persons shelter, health, education and welfare", that alone is worthless. As you said - It has been tried and tried again by well meaning technocrats - trying linear solutions to complex problems. Throwing money at the problem does not solve it. A whole community on welfare is insanity. How the hell are people going to get themselves sorted out if there is no work? There is NO reason to NOT get pissed all day. Kids live in a culture that education is not needed - that unemployed parents sit around all day and get drunk to take the edge off the boredom. They don't know any different so they don't aspire to be different. It is a culturally engrained welfare population. They need to have their pride awakened. They have to pull together and NEED to stand on their own two feet - proud of their communities. It will take generations.

Without a doubt large big government programs will comtinue to fail. Money needs to be given to people on the ground to get things moving. The social entrepreneurs on the front lines. Forget blanket solutions. Street by street initiatives. Face to face. The current "pay management" initiative is an example of how crap a big program can be.
It is a blanket solution that hurts everybody and just breeds additional anger. What they should have is nominated locals (a trusted and respected local counciler in the community) who walk around each week and see who has an grog problem, and record it. The person goes on half pay. Another person is nominated the next week for grog patrol. After a week or two drying out the people that control their drinking get their money back. Not rocket science. Watch Living Black - it was on tonight, no consultation at the local level. This program could work if they got local people to help admin it. It would have taken a day to set up Absolute shambles. Linear thinking.

Or the Government could actually use a big project in a good way for a change. Take Dubbo for example. Indigenous people were concentrated in two low value areas and the crime, rates of destruction of building was was terrible. The situation had polarised the town. Taxis would not drive in the areas, no one would deliver a pizza to the areas. I grew up there. It got rough.
Eventually, it came to a head (2006) - the State Govt gave the green light to "fix the problem whatever the cost". They bought up houses all over Dubbo - entered in long term rent contracts, and spread the whole population all over Dubbo. THAT is community integration. THAT is decisive action. And it will probably work too. It stops a self contained "no go" community to develop that stops dialogue, which also breeds the toxic cultural environment of poverty and violence. Everyones a product of their environement. The segregation strategy of the government had bred this problem, no question.

Another idea would be add some small army reserve depots out in the communities - get all the blokes and girls involved. Give them something to do. Give them skills and a goal. A REASON to pull their life together. To stay sober, fit, listen to instructions and get used to a structured environment. They can still receive their payments and will get paid for the part time work they do. Give them some pride. Open the door to full time and let them walk through it. A lot would make great troops and given them an incentive to learn their heritage by walking in it and living off it - instead of the bottle.

Give them not fish - buy them a fishing pole, show them a waterhole and teach them to fish. We need to build capabilities and positive feedback loops in this planning. And if they need their arse kicked then let it be done by the people on the ground who know who needs a good kicking.

I've given some suggestions - your turn mate!


Cheers
Cluster

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geekay
March 6th, 2008

Hi Cluster,

Thanks for the detailed and reasoned response, well done and most of it directly relevant to improving, in practical ways, the lot of indigenous persons.

It was not my intention in various posts to say that this and that must be done...although I agree with most of yours and can offer others too, but not in this response just yet.

My key point is simply that the "bleeding heart" brigade are expert at finding only fault, criticism, condemnation and everything negative...However, if you read any number of hundreds of "bleeding heart" comments...none, I repeat, none..of them can gather up enough intellectual integrity and acknowledge that successive generations of governments have, collectively, made enormous progress to indigenous causes....I could not say always successfully but similarly would never say that since 1770 every day life for indigenous persons has been nothing but misery and persecution.

The important thing is that in any topic, "sorry" or otherwise...discussion and thought must be balanced and the good and the bad must both be considered. Bleeding hearts only ever see bad...that's the point I've been trying to make.

Another point being the scarcity of effective and statesman-like aboriginal leadership...even aboriginies are often fiercely critical of emerging leaders like Noel Pearson and his views...accusing him caving in to the white man...Aboriginal leadership needs more nurturing and I guess this is happening, albeit slowly.

Just a couple of closing points..I disagree that " shelter, health, education and welfare" are worthless on their own. These are the foundations upon which most of your ideas are hinged and certainly a "benefit" to all Australians.

Lastly, regarding alcoholism....Decades ago...legislators tried to ban or limit alcohol sales to indigenous persons because they saw the awful fallout from it..but the "bleeding hearts" and left-wing trendies overturned all that. The point being, successive administrations have seen the root causes, tried to do something, were beaten down by misguided idealists and the alcohol probelm has become ingrained, sadly, as you correctly state.


Let's keep dialogue going for the sake of balance, focus and direction.

Cheers,
Geekay

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one
March 7th, 2008

Your comment
Geekay, you have some good points to make and obviously care about these issues.

Showing a bit of respect for people you disagree with (some of whom have lived or worked "in the coal face"- the only way to understand without simply intellectualising) would go a long way...that includes not using labels in an attempt to disregard what they have to say or their efforts.

People listen more if they are not put-down.

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geekay
March 7th, 2008

Hi "One",

Good summation...The old theme that positive reinforcement achieves more than constant negative reinforcement, applies in the indigenous issues.

Imagine the increased in positive dialogue if "bleeding hearts" began to say something like...

"Well, yes, there certainly has been progress in indigenous issues such as..x..y...z..but more needs to be done with a...b...& ..c..let's try and find something workable.. "

Rather than "genocide, atrocities, persecution, evil and awful" at the exclusion of everything else...

Bleeding hearts are, ironically, in my opinion, unwittingly delaying the very improvements and changes they are seeking to occur by their narrow mindset.







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victoria
March 21st, 2008

hi, i am a dance performer living in Gadigal country of the Eora nation and the apology struck me with a resonance with a historical situation in the late 1950's in post world war 2 japan when the birth of the butoh movement within the arts began. this movement or performance by hijikata created a shattering of dominant values, east and west. i felt the national apology was way more gentle but as profound.

Best regards, victoria hunt

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Free Thinkers
March 22nd, 2008

Kevin Rudd apology to the Aboriginal people goes way beyond the civilised act it represents: according to universal values, some actions are wrong (because they bring unwanted or destructive consequences), and some actions are right (because they bring desirable and constructive consequences). For example stealing (people or property) is not acceptable in any culture. Some governments act as if they were not concerned by the essential rules that we teach our children. If individuals were acting in the same way as some governments do (imagine your neighbour coming in your home, kicking you out of it, taking possession of it, removing your children from the cradle of your arms, declaring you an unfit parent etc), well if your neighbour did that, they would go straight to jail. What we have to understand is that the values and the rules that apply to individuals must also apply to governments and their policy makers who are liable for the consequences of the decisions they make.
Thank you Mister Rudd for givng Australia a much more human approach to politics, and showing us that there is still hope for everyone to live in a fairer society. Thanks to the spirit of the Aboriginal people, still well and alive, and from which we have much to learn.

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First Priority !
March 25th, 2008

The Right of Conquest is a Mythical Beast
australia is a State of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE

GENOCIDE is still on the books...this is a war of words...and we have to stop using these particular words...( australia + aborigine ) its impossible for me to be an australian...because australians are the perpetrators of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...and we the originals NATIONS of this continent...are the victims of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...everytime an australian objects to us in words and in deed...they are contributing to the GENOCIDE of our existence...

The Latin Dictionary meaning of the word ‘AB’ is twofold.

1. From.
2. To Motion Away, Distance and Separation.

The Exact and Precise Latin Dictionary definition
of the word ‘Aborigine’ is also twofold.

1. From the Beginning.
2. To Take From the Original and To Dispose of the Original.

As in the Mathematical Word ‘Abacus’, To Add and Subtract or
‘Abdomen’, Extract the Food Value and Dispose of the Food Waste.

Other words to consider:
‘Abortion, Abduct, Abandon, Abuse, etc.

The Substance or Essence of the word ‘AB’ is;
Repulse, Repel, Reject, Remove

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Louise Armstrong
April 21st, 2008

Dear Friends (this was published in the Pastoral Times (Deniliquin) for Sorry Day 2008 - and given the 2020 Vision highlighted the need to keep re-focusing on Indigenous issues, I am reproducing it here....)

This poem was originally written for the first Sorry Day in May, 1998. As part of my MA in Aboriginal studies, I did a lot of reading and wrote a lot of essays on the history of occupation of Australia by Britain and the subsequent impacts on its inhabitants. I guess it was a real eye and heart opener and I feel I want to somehow make sure people understand the reasons why this Sorry is so important.

Colonisation of lands has been going on for thousands of years – but one concern I have is that in our modern society – we continue to permit and maintain racist constructs so that the invader benefits to the detriment of the Indigenous. Should this attitude be permitted to continue? I think not…..I would like to Thank the Incumbent PM and his Cabinet for having the courage to raise this issue again…and give me a chance to bring this back into the Light.

I dedicate this to all the Aboriginal people I have met in my travels and to their families, past present and future.

(So, unfortunately I have lost the original text …..so I rewrote and I think I like it better now.)


My mother never told me
They came and stole your land,
My mother never told me
They used chains to bind your hand,
My mother never told me
And it is to my disgrace -
My mother never to me
They told lies to your face.

You see my mother said -
She said, she never knew,
Of murder, poison flour and
stealing children, too.
And now my mothers crying,
My country’s crying too -
This wide brown land is crying,
at atrocities against you

And now I know - it’s up to me,
To try and heal this rift.
To hold your brown hand in mine
Would be a special gift.
Together we can walk and talk,
Along this bumpy way -
And you can one day can call me Friend,
One Sunny Aussie Day.


Louise M. Armstrong

February 8, 2008

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First Priority !
April 21st, 2008

Louise...

Colonisation has been going on for thousands of years...but nobody does it better...than the english...the difference is the british put this land and the people and all the animals and all the insects and microscopic life...into a big black LEGAL hole of NULL and VOID...which they called...TERRA NULLIUS...This black hole is a State of DISOLVE and DISSOLUTION...and it is also...a BIG BLACK HOLE of DEHYDRATION and VACUUM State...from this point...go and do some serious research...beginning with a dictionary...and seriously analyse these key words...
NULL-VOID-DISSOLVE-DISSOLUTION-DEHYDRATION-VACUUM...

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Tolerance and Justice
April 21st, 2008

Blame, aggression, hate and intolerance. These are the things that are hindering the path to cultural (Australian) maturity. This is from BOTH sides of the fence.

Yes colonization has been happening since one group could wield power over another group AND it is still happening. And yes it is condoned, look at Israel's brutal, ongoing colonization of Palestine. It remains so because an even bigger power controls and manipulates it and very few are willing or able to stand up and voice their opinion (can be dangerous!) . So....

The task at hand is to get those in power to firstly acknowledge a wrong has been/is being done. Then to take steps to correct or (even better) reverse the effects.

Playing the victim (correct word) is neither effective nor satisfactory for anyone especially as it is portrayed by SOME - The best this will do is to get the response "go away" the worst is a backlash and a refusal to move to the negotiation table.

I am not saying to loose the passion for righting this wrong - just be smart about it and learn a better way.

Moving forward - we Australians - yes, WE - got the Government to change its reasons on any Apology, we needed to change those in Govt first though!!! Now that an Apology has been expressed and recorded publicly, we take the next step, and it may only be small, but its a step, so keep stepping.

To push the process forward, let's hear what POSITIVE contributions people have, in whatever form, and not the vehemence and loathing they have for Australia.

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First Priority !
April 21st, 2008

Tolerance and Justice...??

Your full of crap man...don't telll me i'm australian...don't ever tell me i'm australian...i AB-SOLUTELY hate any foreigners calling me australian...i spit on that word/name...there will never be maturity with that name...and there will absolutely be no steps forward with that word/name...all the apologies in the world in the name of australia will never progress anywhere...except into a deeper darker black hole of NULL and VOID...i have a very rich culture...australians have zero culture...it takes thousands of years of isolatation to cultivate a true culture...believe your own lies if you must...but don't expect me to believe your lies...i know who i'am...and i know where i'am...its all your foreigners who are deluded about where u are and who u are...!!!!

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muddy 1
April 23rd, 2008

first priority,

going back to the discussion about the word Aborigine, you are right 'Ab' means from but 'origine' means the begining.
So in all there stupid wisdom white fullas have called us 'from the begining' recognising our rightful place as original custodians of this land.
why do you think the federal govt changed the label they use to the word 'indigenous'
'indi'= from
'genous'= birth

even they are here 'from birth'.
they might be 'indigenous' but they aint Aboriginal.

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Confused
April 30th, 2008

What I don't understand about First Priority is that he hates us all so much and yet he uses our technology every day and appears addicted to communicating with us, albeit in a hostile manner.

To be consistent mate (sorry but I can only see you as a beligerent male), stop using OUR computer technology, stop driving OUR cars, stop living in OUR houses and STOP TAKING OUR MONEY and above all STOP COMMUNICATING WITH US. Go sit under a tree, dig up grubs for your dinner and don't seek us out or use our technology until you have a little gratitude that you have it.

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muddy1
April 30th, 2008

dear confucious (sorry i meant confused)

i found this mate.

Konrad Zuse (1910-1995) was a construction engineer for the Henschel Aircraft Company in Berlin, Germany at the beginning of WWII. Konrad Zuse earned the semiofficial title of "inventor of the modern computer" for his series of automatic calculators.

so when you say "OUR TECHNOLOGY" do you mean that your German and not a 'true blue dinkum aussie'

OUR cars you say, Ford and Holden are own by GM an American company, unless of course you meant Toyota or Honda. I am not 100% but I dont think they make P76 leylands anymore.

OUR houses, thank you for personally going around and building every house in this country... you must be really tired mate. (wake up to yourself)

YOUR MONEY...Stop wasting our time. what colour do you think the majority of welfare recipients in this country are? the ones I support with MY Taxes

You really are conused,
check the stats and get back to me you grub.

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First Priority !
May 1st, 2008

We all know australians never invented anything in this modern world...australians just jump on the successes of other peoples of the world...because its impossible to cultivate anything of human value in a State of Lies-Theft and Genocide...!!!
Cars put a hole in the ozone layer...along with all the other technologies giving off toxic fumes...one of these days we'll all be looking for trees...and grubs for that matter...cos when that sun comes screaming through that hole in the ozone layer with a vengeance...there won't be any more trees...or grubs or anything else for us to eat...asians are lining up for rice in the worlds rice bowl right now...thanks to modern technology...
Yeah right...i got so much gratitude and respect for you rednecks and white trash who think u got a perfect right to be here in my home-my land-my country and my sovereign space...everything i use in the society was shoved down my throat...including this foreign language...better to eat grubs and goannas in peace and content than to eat foreigners foods with the imminent destruction of planet earth hanging over our heads...

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Harmony
May 3rd, 2008

You know,First Priority, if it wasn't the British, it would have been the French, or Dutch or Spanish who came here. Things were never going to stay the way they had been for many thousands of years. (I think that is sad, because you seemed to have a very peaceful life here.) But technology was advancing and boats had been developed which could travel down here etc.

Your ancestors floated across the sea here or walked from PNG in the last ice age and our ancestors floated across the sea. So they both just stumbled across it, it's just that your ancestors did it much much earlier. The land is the land and it really belongs to NO-ONE. Your people get that better that the whites but still NO-ONE has ownership of it - it owns us, it feeds us, shelters us, provides the elements which keep us alive.

I am not a historian, but I think the very first encounters between black and white were amicable and then things quickly deteriorated. I think I read that the British kidnapped a black fellow from Manly and that made his people angry and fighting broke out. I know we probably started it and the lack of communication did not help. The fact is the blacks and whites were living in COMPLETELY different worlds in their heads. (A lot of us apparently still are.) They simply couldn't understand where the other one was coming from. That is just the way the world has been for millenium - lack of communication.

The thing is, the people who visit this website are probably some of the most lovely people on this continent and getting them offside by abusing them is not the smartest thing for you to do. There are probably still KKK type people out there who would happily string up a black fella from a tree and a lot of cops would love to beat you to death in a prison cell (and I despise those people). If you dont keep the good people on side, all you will have left are the cruel disgusting ones and I know you have seen enough of them in you time.

I admire your loyalty to your people and you know what is going on on this planet but there is no going back. We have to do the best we can from here.

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SueT
May 4th, 2008

First Priority, I have heard it said that people can only operate from two emotional places - love or fear. It is quite obvious that you are not coming from 'love' on this website so you must, therefore, be operating from fear. I can understand your fear of Australian 'intruders', given the history of the past 200 years; it may take another 200 years to make reasonable inroads into reparing the damage that has been done to your people.

Each individual has only two options now - to be helpful or a hindrance - towards instigating the changes required to make a better future for all people residing in Australia. What do you want to be - a help or a hindrance?

Abusing and criticising other people never gets a positive result; that's how we ended up with the terrible history your people have suffered for the past 200 years. Do you really want to continue that history into the future? Do you really believe a payback of negativity will achieve your goals for the future of your people? Try testing your negativity on your family and friends before continuing to abuse the strangers on Getup - see what you achieve in your immediate neighbourhood before trying it in this larger group. The results will be the same in both groups because we're all people, regardless of colour or culture.

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lionel hurst
May 4th, 2008

My wife was part of the stolen generation - she was taken from her mother aged 3, at gunpoint by NSW Police and DOC's representatives in a raid at Naromine.She and her closest sister aged 5, were fostered out to a white bible bashing family while the other three siblings were split up.The mother had a compete mental breakdown and was only found by us and a son not long before her death.It took 30 years for most of the family to find each other.The eldest brother still has not been found.The ripples of this government cruelty have affected three generations of the family.An apology from a politician means absolutely nothing to any of us or members of aboriginal groups we associate with.The video of the song "little things" is nothing more than a political promotion for Rudd and the ALP, for whom Getup campaigned for last election.As for the song, well the sentiment is nice, but basically it's a pretty lousy song with poor melody and off key-singers.It's only a hit because white people feel guilty and are helping their consciences by buying it.Neither the song not Rudd's apology didn't stop the NSW Police raiding Redfern homes last week and threatening innocent elderly aboriginal people with guns.Sorry, but nothing has changed.

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sereh
May 4th, 2008

First Priorty, firsly i wanna say big F for you and your family and your Country China. Secondly China is doing what the white people did for the Aboriginal people in many years ago. Shame on you China, learn from the world, Its time to be Honest to the world. Shame china shame

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First Priority !
May 7th, 2008

australia is still a State of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...
WHATEVER comes out of the MOUTHS of australians is only loaded with...LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...
this is the reason why GETUP took off my reply to SueT and Harmony...cos they didn't like reading the truth of this BIZARRE situation/relationship...FOREIGNERS...thinking they have a perfect right to SHOVE their way into my HOME-my COUNTRY and GENOCIDE 7 million people off the face of the earth...and now they want to give me good advice oN RIGHT and WRONG...australians are AB-solutely in no position to be giving lectures about FEELING-THINKING and DOING the right thing...i think SueT and Harmony along with Geekay are desparately trying to put me back into MY PLACE...

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Wendy Berg
May 7th, 2008

I don't care what race or colour you are, you are sick man!

Life is what you make it!!!

Everyone lives with adversity.

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Wendy Berg
May 7th, 2008

First Priorty (what a selfish title) Just so you know, I have a 22 year old daughter who is severely physically and mentally disabled, she is totally dependant, she can't sit up, roll over, feed herself, she wears nappies and the list goes on.But be assured, I think ALL the time of people also in difficult situations, whose lives are changed by others that they have no control over, but believe me, being bitter and hateful will not help.
I can not work because I care for her 24/7. My life is very restricted. If I want to go out I have to book a disabled cab and everyone stares at us where ever we go. There are many people in life who have struggles and are different, but we are all responsible for our own happiness and acceptance, and you know what there is always someone worse off.

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First Priority !
May 8th, 2008

WENDY...Trust you to totally MIS-INTERPRET my title...( First Priority ! )...just like a redneck anglo white australian...always so good at...PRESUMING...ASSUMING...never bother to ask us anthing...just rock up here as you please..."CONTAMINATE all the WATER"..."POLUTE all the OXYGEN"..."PUT a HOLE in the OZONE LAYER"...you people are really in AB-SOLUTELY no position to be giving LECTURES about anything...when are YOU PEOPLE...going to wake up to yourselves...????...of course im sick...i'm sick cos you idiots are living in my home without permission and i legally don't exist in my own country...i legally don't exist on planet earth...because YOU PEOPLE...put us into a STATE of NULL and VOID...a STATE of DISSOLVE and DISSOLUTION...which is the reason why we are a dying race...now you go and seriously think about this WENDY...and don't talk to me about the woes of the world...im well aware of it...YOU PEOPLE keep thinking i just crawled out of a swamp...or maybe i just climbed down from a tree...HELLO !!!

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Keith
May 9th, 2008

First Priority, after reading your comments below, and various other crap that you've come out with, i can only assume you rearly got stuck into the magic mushrooms at some stage of your life, tripped out, and unfortunately never recovered. Seriously, i've never read such drivel in all my life, and don't come back with the same boring comments like LIARS, THIEVES & GENOCIDAL PSYCOPATHS, it's wearing thin and makes you sound like a snivelling little sook. I notice you're not brave enough to use your real name, prefering to hide behind your computer. Then again, the computer's the only place your bullshit would be tolerated, if you talked to people like that face to face, you'd get that chip punched clean off your shoulder.

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geekay
May 9th, 2008

Bloggers, don't respond to a delusional fool like First Priority, all he/she wants is a reaction ( to get his rocks off) which gives a reaction to his/her twisted and illogical views.

Instead, contact the Blog moderator to get this idiot off the radar. Not becuae of limitation of free speech, but to preserve free speech for rational beings.

First Priority is an antogonistic fool that distracts decent bloggers from better outcomes for all.

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First Priority !
May 11th, 2008

GEEKAY...welcome back matey mate mate...FREE SPEECH is for all beings matey...rational and irrational beings are all entitled to FREE SPEECH...but the true spirit of RATIONALE won't ever set foot into a State of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...

KEITH...i don't wanna make any ASSUMPTIONS here...but you sound like an EXTREMELY VIOLENT person...your not actualy wishing harm on my sacred person are you KEITH...? i know how civilised and rational YOU PEOPLE imagine yourselves to be...OHHH WOE IS ME...!!!!

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First Priority !
May 12th, 2008

KEITH...you are right about 1 thing...i feel i need to take this up onto a higher level...political correctness and diplomacy...and all that jazz...i won't use the terms australians are LIARS-THIEVES and GENOCIDAL PSYCHOPATHS anymore...instead i'll stick with...AUSTRALIA is a STATE of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...is that much better...did you get any warm fuzzies from that adjustment...am i still heading in the right direction KEITH...i thought all that crap about bags of mushrooms died out in the early 80's...you speak your insults like you just created them in your self-deceiving little brains...can you please save this space for real genuine concerned people who want to make a difference...KEITH !!!...Hmmm...maybe i really do need a PATERNALISTIC/MATERNALISTIC white anglo australian to wipe my nose and clean up everything else i'm not capable of doing...

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Keith
May 12th, 2008

First Minority, There you go again, just when i thought you were coming good, you trip out once more. Are you sure you didn't overdose on something at some stage? Recent medical breakthroughs have produced some very effective medications to combat mental illness, you might like to check it out, i think you'd be pleasantly surprised. Who knows, it might even improve your low self esteem

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First Priority !
May 12th, 2008

Keith man...can you please please please be a bit more imaginative, creative and above all original with your insults...( mushrooms, medications,mental illnesses, low self esteem )...come on man...work with me here...!!!

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Wendy Berg
May 14th, 2008

First Priority man.....Can you please, please be a bit more imaginative, creative and above all original with your insults....(liars, thieves and genocidal psychopaths)...
come on man...work with us here....!!!!!!

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First Priority !
May 14th, 2008

WENDY...

very good...im impressed...
immitation is the best compliment...so they say...!!!

so how are you doing WENDY...are you coming to terms with this State of LIES-THEFT and GENOCIDE...or is the revelation and reality still having a psychological affect on you...???

once you have accepted this reality...you can find real healing...and peace and so it goes...!!!

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Wendy Berg
May 15th, 2008

First priorty, don't worry about me, I have peace, no doubt.
As I have told you before, I live with adversity and extreme difference from the so called norm.
My family has been in this country for 6 generations, how this all started is totally abhorent to me. In saying that I had no part of it and I can't believe people stood by and let it happen. That is why I have been following this blog.
Australia as I know it is so multi cultural now, that race , colour, religion, culture, disability, whatever is part of everyday life.
And lets face it if it was'nt the english who came here it would have been someone else.
Most people in this country are not liers or thieves or psychopaths, but caring people who accept people for who they are.
Most of us just happened to be here, we have no hidden agenda, we just want to get on with life and I know for myself want the best for all.
I'm sorry you are so hurt and bitter , you can't change the past, but you can change the future.
Maybe just trying to communicate in a civil way would help.
I have the most beautiful Koori friend, who is a person, no more no less, just the same as everyone else, and they are his words.
Peace to you FP!

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First Priority !
May 22nd, 2008

WENDY WENDY WENDY...

its true that if your gonna sell a LIE...you gotta believe your own LIES whole heartedly...and then you have to be able to deliver your LIES with DEEP SINCERITY and with PROFOUND CONVICTIONS...do you really think i have never heard these feelings thoughts a words before from the mouths of anglo white australians in my almost half a century...Believe your own LIES if you must...but don't expect me to believe you...and please stop kissing my black ACE a SPADES...seriously wake up to yourselves and realise how BIZARRE this situation really is...!!!!

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Wendy Berg
May 25th, 2008

Ha Ha!!! Bizarre, for sure.
That is how it is, you may have heard it before but hear it again, you are what you are, and you get what you put in.
And NO I will never kiss your black ace of spades, anymore than I would want you to kiss mine.
We all piss and sh-t the same colour bro, HELLO!!!!

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First Priority !
May 25th, 2008

WENDY PLEASE...

get a hold of yourself woman...don't loose the plot on me here...i can see this psychosis has really kicked in here with you...just take a deep breath and don't think about the colour of your Sh-t or anybodies elses sh-t for that matter...its not good for your health to have your head in the toilet bowl...come on work with me...its not a competition...you people or should i say your ancestors put this continent in the LEGAL BLACK HOLE OF NULL AND VOID...( terra nullius )...its killing this continent and its having catastrophic effects on the whole globe...and the only way to make any serious changes is to get rid of the name australia and especially the name aborigine...HELLO !!!!

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Wendy Berg
May 27th, 2008

What shall I call Australia and what shall I call Aboriginals (not that I have used that title before) Please inform me on the correct names.

And I do have a grip although your psychosis is rubbing of on me, just a little!!!! Ha Ha

Everyman is equal, even you!!!

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Harmony
May 28th, 2008

Thank you Get Up for putting conditions on the comments on this blog site. In response to some very abusive words from First Priority, I said some unkind things to him and I am glad that you protected me from my own anger and blocked my comments.

Also thank you to Sue T for her beautiful comments about coming from either fear of love. I have found myself thinking about this and watching my emotions to see where they are coming from. It takes a bit of work but I think that, slowly, it is possible to approach the world from a better place within yourself.

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