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Stop the deception


Posted on the campaign blog , June 6th, 2006
Pregnancy Help Australia is the trading name for The Australian Federation of Pregnancy Support Services (AFPSS), formerly the Australian Federation of Pro Life Pregnancy Support services, a peak body for 29 anti-choice groups masquerading as neutral pregnancy counsellors. Last year, they received $300,000 in Federal funding.

The AFPSS promotes their free 24-hour national hotline in the emergency section of the phone directory. What they don’t advertise is the commitment in their constitution “not to advise, provide or refer, directly or indirectly for abortion or abortifacients.” Nor do they promote their ties to the US-based anti-choice group Heartbeat International. (See Heartbeat's press release,
="http://www.heartbeatinternational.org/international_focus.htm"target=_blank">Australian Government Awards Grant to Heartbeat Affiliate.) A similar organisation, Pregnancy Counselling Australia, sent around posters to doctors’ clinics all around Australia, advertising their “free, confidential, compassionate counselling”.

So we thought weÂ’d share a few case studies, recently submitted to the Senate Inquiry by a clinical psychologist, of what kind of harm this "counselling" is really doing.



-A father from a regional area contacted me by phone. His 16-year old daughter was five weeks pregnant as the result of being raped. He and his wife were aware of counselling available about the sexual assault via the Centre Against Sexual Assault (CASA) and had arranged this for their daughter. But the father was phoning to find out where they could get counselling for her around the pregnancy decision. As her father, he felt strongly that she should terminate the pregnancy, as did her local doctor. But, perhaps in part due to the pressure from these people to have an abortion, she now was saying she wanted to continue. He felt out of his depth and he wanted to make sure she had every opportunity to think it all through.

The local sexual assault unit (police) had looked up their list of services and given him Pregnancy Counselling Australia. So he phoned them. He was shocked and distressed by their comments. Once they heard that he favoured his daughter terminating her pregnancy, they called him a murderer. They seemed to have no sympathy for his situation let alone his daughterÂ’s. He hung up on them, in a very distressed frame of mind I phoned the police who had unwittingly put this father onto PCA. They were grateful for my call and shocked to hear that this service, which advertises in the 24-hour Emergency Service section of the phone book, was in fact anti-choice and so unprofessional and unethical.

-24-year old Karen and her husband presented to the clinic with an unplanned pregnancy. They had known about the pregnancy for six weeks and Karen’s pregnancy was now eleven weeks gestation. They had delayed coming into the clinic for an abortion because they had initially contacted a phone pregnancy service to find out about having an abortion. Unbeknown to them this service was a false provider offering “counselling” from an anti-choice philosophy. Karen had been married only a short time, her husband had recently lost this job, Karen was concerned that medication she had been taking might adversely affect the pregnancy, and neither felt ready to become a parent. They contacted the false provider feeling fairly certain that terminating the pregnancy was the right decision for them and for any children they might have in the future. The phone service informed them that abortion was an extremely dangerous operation likely to cause infertility and mental illness. The service would not refer the couple elsewhere, and the couple was left feeling highly anxious and hopeless.

-A woman in her early twenties attended the clinic for problem pregnancy counselling. She explained that she had an 8-month old baby and her partner had walked out on her when she had been 7-weeks pregnant with the current pregnancy. In desperation she had phoned a pregnancy phone counselling service. She spoke to a woman who told her that if she had an abortion she wouldn’t be able to get pregnant again because a large percentage of women having abortions became infertile. The woman suggested that she should continue this pregnancy – at least then she would have two children rather than ending up with one...

-A 40-year old woman attending the clinic told the counsellor: I am 40 years old and I have teenage children and I donÂ’t want another child. But IÂ’ve made it all even worse because I was feeling really worried and so I phoned a service listed in the front of the phone book. This person was so obviously trying to talk me into going ahead with the pregnancy. When I mentioned that I knew there might be risks of DowneÂ’s Syndrome because I was older she said I had nothing to worry about. I knew this wasnÂ’t true and I feel they shouldnÂ’t be allowed to be telling people things that are not medically true.

-A young woman attending our clinic told the counsellor: I rang a counselling line I found in the phone book. I thought I could discuss what I could do about being pregnant – what my options were. But this was not what happened. The woman told me if I had an abortion I would never be able to get pregnant again and that I could die. And she said that they cut the baby up. I was only about six weeks pregnant at the time, which I reckon means it’s not a baby. But I was still really frightened by everything she said. But I knew I had to have an abortion because there is no way I could cope with having a baby at 17. My boyfriend is only 18 and he’s just a student too. They shouldn’t be allowed to scare people like that and tell lies.

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Jerildene Smith
June 7th, 2006

It is misleading and certainly not true what these so called "pregnancy counsellors" are offering.



In regards to the first instance, thank heavens the father rang them up. The poor girl had enough to deal with without some unfeeling, self inflated, uncompassionate zealot telling her to that she had to keep the baby!



HOW DARE THEY!



Thank god (ironic huh) that there are organsiations such as Get Up. Imagine what else they would try to get away with!

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Deb Lloyd
June 7th, 2006

I rang the line today with a plausible story, just to see what they would say and to make up my own mind, and felt that the advice was reasonable so on this occassion I cannot support this campaign. Perhaps subsequent advice might have been inappropriate but my half hour conversation with a counsellor was balanced and fair.

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Margaret Locke
June 7th, 2006

Deb,

Glad to hear you got onto someone who sounded reasonable, but obviously there are plenty of cases where counsellors haven't been. And I would also bet that they would know about this campaign by now and are on their toes.

Did you ask speficially about abortion? Because if a group has it in their constiution not to 'advise, refer, etc..' then I'm wondering what kind of information they do give out.



I guess the real point of this all is that there should be regulations in place so the good counsellors get weeded out from the bad, and everyone has to be honest in their advertising and information.


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Kev Wills
June 7th, 2006

Im not happy with the way this campaign is being told to people at all.



I know alot of good people who work for one of these free counselling services and does it out of the kindness of there heart to help people.



Its not biased or mis leading just honest information from research that they have read. There are two sides to every story!



Remember scientists used to tell us that smoking wasnt a health risk at one point in time too. So just because some studies have been done to say abortions dont have a downside and should be a good option I dont think we should all be so naive!



The effects of it can be physcological or physical effects that really do happen from having one. Every woman is different and every womans body will react different to different things.



So isnt it better for them to be honest!



This campaign should be dropped as its not one that Getup should be promoting or getting into!



Ive lost respect for Getup as this is not the issues you guys should be standing up for.



The ABC was a good honest thing that we all needed to get behind.



This is rubbish ... drop it!

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James Clark
June 7th, 2006

I think that they should have to show that they have something like that in their constitution. It is clearly not balanced from the stories I have read above. If they are not going to be open to all the options they should have to state that they are only going to give pro-life (anti-choce?) advice.

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Catherine James
June 7th, 2006

If a woman is pregnant and is not really wanting to continue with the pregnancy, why would she call a pregnancy help line? The very name suggests the service is there to help with pregnancy. I would expect if I call a helpline, I'm looking for support - whether in the form of money, services, counselling.

Help does not mean terminate.

I don't think a service called "pregnancy help" should be recommending abortions.

There are plenty of other services with titles that reflect their ideological bent - just look up the same phone number listings "pregnancy help" is under - which will sufficiently deal with the abortion issue.

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Andrew Finden
June 7th, 2006

Using the term 'Anti-Choice' is just as misleading. Organisations that discourage abortions simply acknowledge that, in most instances, the choice was made when choosing to engage in sexual activites that posed a risk of pregnancy.

This current campaign in a sad reflection on the selfish nature of society - one which would rather kill an inocent unborn child because it won't take responsibility for earlier choices - a society which seems to care more about the so called 'right' to have an abortion than the responsibility of caring for valuable unborn life.

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Dominique Galea
June 7th, 2006

How can you call these people anti-choice? The women who are pregnant have a choice. They either decide to terminate the living organism which they are carrying or they decide to have it develop into a child. The choice is still theirs. No one is forcing them under coersion to either terminate it or keep it. It has been my experience that people generally follow the advice that they actually agree with already.



In this situation I would just like to ask the pregnant women how they think they would have felt if their mothers had decided to terminate the pregnancy that resulted in their birth. Would they have felt like they had a choice then????

Someone has to be a voice for the voiceless potential Australian citizens who are being dispenced with because they are considered to be "inconvenient"!!!



Just as well some of us decided to continue with our pregnancies which were just as inconvenient. This selfless act has resulted in more people who pay taxes to support medicare and who become the doctors lawyers and psycologists!!!

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Greg Power
June 8th, 2006

It's a shame that the mother in some of these cases can become scared with advice given. Spare a thought for the baby.

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Francis Roberson
June 8th, 2006

Whilst I agree that these testimonials are shocking and that a biased service of this kind should not be able to run, I think that Deb made a very wise decision by calling personally to make up her own mind.



It does say on their website that all the funding they recieve is from private donations and that they are non-political.



Could whoever is running the campaign please provide a little more evidence that there is government funding involved.

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Freddie Frackshat
June 8th, 2006

I feel that this is GetUp's weakest campaign to date. First, I have long hoped that Australia would not adopt the USA's misleading and emotive terminology of pro and anti "-choice", but I guess there is now no hope of that.



More importantly, it is quite clear that abortion in our society is a major double-standard. We conveniently define a point at which a baby becomes a human, and therefore are allowed to kill it before it crosses that line.



Having said that, abortion should clearly be available for those in need, and the best advice and medical assistance should be available for those people. To that extent I support this campaign, but I will think a while before deciding whether or not to add my name to it.



-- ff

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Jessie Cran
June 8th, 2006

If someone's in crisis, the last thing they need is biased information.



This isn't a new phenomenom. Years ago there were smaller campaigns about this very issue, with links to advertisements for "prolife women" to staff the phones at these organisations.



If someone wants to ring a phoneline which doesn't support abortion, fine- but they have the right to know that before a "counsellor" (and what actual qualifications does one need to be a counsellor for these services anyway?) starts talking to them.



Pro, or anti abortion, the government shouldn't be funding deceiving women like this. Imagine if a group of militant vegetarians set up "the healthy eating hotline" and told anyone who rang it that eating meat was morally wrong, and it was going to give them cancer? And the government sponsored them to do so?



I'm also quite disgusted at the people who feel this is no big deal. Women- as do all Australians- deserve to be allowed to make their own choices about their bodies- and they deserve not to be lied to- with lies sponsored by the government.





This is not about fetuses or babies or whatever you wish to call them. This is about misinformation and bias.

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Jessica Cleary-Kemp
June 8th, 2006

I have to say that the point here is not really whether the counsellors are giving out good/correct/unbiased/etc. advice or not - it is whether they are qualified to be giving out advice at all. What, if any, standards are in place to make sure that this highly important role is being fulfilled by people who are well-trained and informed? This is why I support the campaign.

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Sue Moore
June 8th, 2006

I had an abortion and I felt great afterwards. It was such a relief to know that I did not have to go through an unwanted pregnancy. I do not think there is enough in this campaign about how wonderful abortion is.



I am sick and tired of hearing abortion described as "a difficult desision". I had no difficulty making my decision. I had my abortion when I was 16. I am 38 now. I have 4 children we are very happy.



No regrets at all.



There has not been any negative impact upon my psychological well being as a result of my abortion. It was such a positive experience.

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Clea Hooper
June 8th, 2006

Please people, don't turn this into a political debate about the rights and wrongs of abortion - this is not what the campaign is about.

When a person seeks medical, psychological or referral information about ANY critical issue, he or she must not be misled by those pupporting to offer that information. Simple as that.

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Silvia Ford
June 8th, 2006

I can think of nothing more awful than being pregnant with no moral or financial support.

Hotlines should be there to give professional advice regarding options and to help women feel confident in the choice they need to make.

I support this campaign absolutely.

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Leigh Miller
June 8th, 2006

Couselling is counselling. It should be impartial and not biased with true medical and factual advice. Many, many ,many women live from abortion as you may have noticed it's no longer the 30's and many more continue to reproduce healthy babies when their time is financially, able and mature to raise a baby in the right environment. Isn't it worse to bring into the world an abused child that many people aren't ready to cope with and take it out on the child. The government wants no gay marriages or abortions and yet many idealic couples are the biggest abusers of living children. Give every one a go.

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Frances Richmond
June 8th, 2006

The basic right of any human being is to learn. No human being has the right to deny me the right to learn. Withholding or distorting information takes away my right to learn. I'm anti-abortion and that is my choice. Who am I to distort information just so someone else will think and act the same as me. I totally agree with Clea. This campaign is about honesty and the freedom of access to all the information needed to make an informed decision. This is not about the for or against abortion.

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Phoebe Stuart
June 8th, 2006

My sister was unfortunate in having an accidental pregnancy at 18 years of age, in her first year of university. Luckily we have a mother and father who were supportive enough to help my sister through an abortion without making her feel guilty.



She has now completed her undergraduate degree in science and is completing her masters degree in Orthoptics whilst contributing to life saving research through her role is a clinical trials laboratory. She is looking forward to getting married and having children when she has found the right partner to support her and has the financial means to bring up a child.



I don't know where she would be if she was alone and had spoken to this phoney pregnancy line. Probably uneducated, stuggling on welfare with an unplanned child who was not receiving the care from a mother and father that the child deserves.



Or she may have been in the position of a woman I know who had been separated from her child who she was pressured into giving up for adoption. She had been pressured by the church not to have an abortion. Then she was sent away from her family home to work in the home of a couple in another city as a house cleaner. They treated her badly and made her feel ashamed that she had accidently got pregnant. For 30 years she suffered the anguish of not knowing what had happened to her child.



This fake pregnancy info line staffed by underqualified counsellors is asking for disaster. Sooner or later a woman will be given bad advice and will probably as a result suffer from physical or mental harm. These phoney agencies and the government will then be accountable for the avoidable injury and harm of a pregnant woman or most likely many pregnant women who were preyed on because they were vulnerable and alone, and weren't given correct information by government funded agencies.

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Timothy Smith
June 8th, 2006

In response to Francis Roberson's comment earlier, I also checked out the website for Pregnancy Counseling Australia. Like you Francis I could not find any evidence of government funding for this organisation. However, regardless of where PCA sources their funding, I found much of the advice offered on their website to be so grossly biased and misleading that it is questionable as to whether they should be allowed to continue providing so called impartial advice to women and their families.



I cite as an example, the page which refers to the 'physical effects' (ie. risks) of abortion. (http://www.pregnancycounselling.com.au/physical_effects.htm). The long list of complications they provide are arguably identical to the risks faced by women who carry a pregnancy to term and deliver either vaginally or by caesarian section. Furthermore their implication that abortion increases a women's risk of developing breast cancer is manifestly misleading. The so called independent research they cite as the source of this information was a study funded by a pro-life organisation. The study has been dismissed by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologist’s Professor Allan Templeton as "sensational reporting...which serves no other function than causing anxiety amongst women." Indeed any link between abortion and breast cancer is most likely explained by the hormonally protective effect of carrying a pregnancy to term. To report this as being a causal link between abortion and breast cancer is disingenuous and scientifically unjustified.



Surely no organisation which provides biased, false or misleading information, be they government or privately funded, pro life or pro choice, should be allowed to continue providing pregnancy counseling services in Australia.

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Colin
June 8th, 2006

The Federal Government funds anti-choice pregnancy counselling, refuses to recognise same sex marriages, took 10 years to overturn an anti-RU-486 dogma (in essence, an anti-abortion dogma) upheld by a strong, anti-choice catholic health minister (who is still the health minister), allowed anti-choice churches to apply for administering pregnancy support services under the $51 million funding for such services earlier this year. Anyone see a pattern? The supposed separation of religion and politics is an illusion in Australia. It is written down in the constitution and in legislature, but simply does not exist, and anyone who does not fit into the religious bigotry which dominates the government pay for it, especially women.

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John Carusi
June 8th, 2006

I find it unreasonable that there are some folks out there who bleat on about people ending having to deal with the consequences of "not being being responsible about the choices of their sexual behaviours" and all the while denying these said people the choices of how they resolve their own situations as they see fit, through deception. It's sad that there's so many people here in this (ostensibly knowledgeable and progressive) society who are indeed ignorant of matters relating to sexual heatlh, thus ending up facing this often invidious predicament. There was a time, until recently, where people were becoming increasingly better informed of sexual health issues, consequently taking appropriate measures. However, nowadays there appears to be an increase in the transmission of STIs amongst the younger sexually active population, in spite of the new conservatism that has ingratiated itself in society at-large (and the Gen-Y demographic are especially conservative compared to the Xers that I'm a part of). Yet one of the glaring conservative hypocrisies is that they chant the mantra of choice, but only when it suits their own ends, after also ensuring that the goalposts are shifted to their advantage. And thus one may rightly argue that they are now indeed reaping the bitter harvest sown from the seeds of ignorance and apathy that they have planted.



But what really gets my dander up is when these anti-abortion zealots (of whom often give either loaded or flimsy advice in the aforementioned issue of sexual halth) lean sanctimoniously upon those for whom their unwanted pregnancies were not a question of choice, or informed consent for that matter, i.e. victims of sexual assualt in its various (non-consensual) forms. Yeah, like they had a real choice in the matter (if you believe that "…but like she was leading me on…" is suitable as a justification to force yourself upon someone, remember: NO MEANS NO!). And to those there that ask us to imagine how a child born eventually would be told that they were considered to be possibly terminated: well, how about having to break the far more despairing truth of the non-consensual (never mind untimely or inconvenient) origins of the child conceived in THOSE situations? Brave are those who would go ahead and let that gestation come to term, but to those who'd rather not bear a child from those circumstances, more than fair enough that they would wish to terminate and no one, regardless of their OWN PERSONAL moral convictions, should pass judgement, less so railroad the (often vulnerable) women who are caught in these dilemmas through no fault of their own.



Therefore, not only must we ensure that all women (and men) are informed impartially and in a professional manner in regards to unplanned pregnancy, but I also believe that it's high time here in Australia that we are all once again properly informed in an unbiased way about all matters relating to sexual health, free of any smokescreens or moral rectitude .

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Shauna Baker
June 8th, 2006

I support this campain wholeheartedly.

The role of a counsellor is to offer non-judgemental options to the caller, for the issue/s they raise. One of the main criteria of counselling is the same as that of many of the healing professions.

DO NO HARM. It is integral that the person seeking advice on abortion be given legitimate information about the pro's and cons of abortion, and given a full range of options so they can make an informed choice.

Whether the caller has engaged in activities which could be deemed their 'choice' leading to pregnancy or not, (ie rape), the role of the counsellor is NOT to judge. Their role is to provide compassionate information regardless of their own beliefs.

And for the Federal Government to provide so much funding to these known charlatans is an unforgivable issue.

Yet a further notch in the agenda of Howard and Abbott to further their "white heterosexual religious family" agenda.

Who voted these old world cranks in anyway?



Let's get the issue right here people. We are not furthering the abuse of those seeking pregnancy counselling, but hoping to change already existing methods of offering help and resources to those who find themselves in the dilemma of needing informed knowledge so they can make their own choices without guilt or fear.



I do not support abortion as a method of contraception but I believe there are instances when the life of the child and/or its mother would be less than good should the pregnancy go ahead.



Is Australia a democracy, or a dictatorship?

Shauna Baker

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J Dalziel
June 8th, 2006

"I have long hoped that Australia would not adopt the USA's misleading and emotive terminology of pro and anti "-choice", but I guess there is now no hope of that."



And this is different to the 'misleading and emotive' use of pro and anti- 'life' teminology how?



"This is not about fetuses or babies or whatever you wish to call them. This is about misinformation and bias."



Exactly. The issue, to my mind, is not about pro/anti life/choice. That is a decision that everyone should make for themselves. The issue is about governmont funded agencies hiding bias and spreading misinformation to support their ideology.



It is as wrong gor a pro-abortion service to hide it's bias and spread lies as it is for a pro-life agency to do so, and the government should not fund either with our tax dollars.

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Zaida
June 8th, 2006

Whilst I believe that the issue here is not the rights and wrongs of abortion, discussions about such issues often tend to emphasise the rights of unborn children at the expense of the women who are charged with the responsibility of bearing and raising these children. And it is easy to talk of such rights 'to life' for unborn children, without paying heed to the question of whether it is actually morally right to have a child when one is not in a position to give that child the best possible chances in life. It is for this reason that it becomes increasingly difficult to separate the issues in such a debate- obviously, the point of this campaign is to end heavily biased 'councelling' services which prey on women at times when they are vulnerable, and often confused by the choices they must confront. However, it is important also to remember that whether someone is anti- or pro-choice, the idea of pushing these beliefs onto women (whose plates are already loaded with the decisions that must be made in a difficult situation) is unacceptable. If you do not agree with abortion, do not have one. The question here is CHOICE, and this is a personal issue, the outcomes of which should not affect anyone bar the person actually engaged in making that choice, and living with the consequences.

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Helen
June 8th, 2006

The issue here isn't just abortion it is also contraception. Pro-life organizations are also opposed to reliable contraception and sex education, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself:



http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asm76/news/PressArticlesandSpeeches/Articles/2005/TheCapitalTimes1.htm



http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2408/context/ourdailylives



http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-35-4130-1,00.html

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Sally Howes
June 8th, 2006

"Is Australia a democracy, or a dictatorship?" Good question, Shauna. Actually, this particular case makes it SEEM that Australia may be a quasi-dictatorship masquerading as a democracy, which I think is even scarier than either option on its own! The government, which purports to be a secular, non-dogmatic, democratic government, is underhandedly funding a counseling service which in turn purports to be unbiased but is actually at least subtly, and occasionally overtly, pushing a very biased, targeted agenda. It's almost government-sponsored brainwashing, one of the hallmarks of a dictatorship.



In all seriousness, of course I know Australia is really a democracy - but as its citizens it is our right and responsibility to keep it that way by taking our government to task over issues such as the one being addressed here.



I also agree with Frances Richmond - personally I am anti-abortion in most cases, but there is no way I want my view forced onto anyone else by the distortion of information (or any other method). To paraphrase a well-known saying, "I may disagree with the decision you make, but I'll defend to the death your right to make it in an informed manner."

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Bill Gregor
June 8th, 2006

If anyone here doubts where www.pregnancycounselling.com.au is coming from they should have a look at the 17 web links on their site. Almost all religious based and and probably all anti-abortion. If they were fair dinkum about being non-biased they would also have links to pro-choice sites.

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Rae Billett
June 8th, 2006

I agree with John Carusi (bit long but true), and Shauna Baker "is Australia a democracy? answer NO! The Federal Health Minister lost the RU-486 debate and there is now a real pay back with government funded, so called "counselling" for pregant women". We would be niave to believe that the counselling would be unbiased if it is government funded. I would like to know how the "counsellors" are selected and what their credentials are. Having been in the position of having an unwanted pregnancy terminated when I was 18 I can truly say that it has never been an influence on my mental health nor on my ability to delivery a healthy child when the time was right. There seems to a mindset with this government to populate at all costs regardless of the impact on the mother and child in later life. Please, let's have a fair and sensible outlook, threatening young, vulnerable women with dire, inaccurate, and in some instances quite fanciful consequences is not democracy as I perceive it should be. I support this campaign. Unfortunately it is political, very political because these counselling services are government funded. How can it not be political?


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Andrew Partos
June 8th, 2006

A Catholic priest,a protestant reverend and a jewish rabbi were discussing where life starts.The catholic priest said it is from the moment of conception.The protestant revreend said it i when the child is born and you hear its first cry.The jewish rabbi said life really strats when the children leave home.

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Steve Madden
June 8th, 2006

The funding of this "sham" support service is par for the course for The Lyons Forum. We have a government controlled by the equivalent of the US religious right.



The last known membership is http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/lyons.html



Not to mention Opus Dei



What can't people live and let live (or die) we do not need religion in politics

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Peter Reefman
June 8th, 2006

To the Getup team,



We usually support your motions to parliamentarians, etc, as we often find the cause just.



However, on this occasion, we find your claims clearly misguided at best, ironically deceptive at worst. We have had considerable contact with Pregancy Help Australia and are aware of the sensitively caring work these volunteers do with the women who approach them. Their information regarding risks associated with abortion is all credible and backed up by facts and studies. They are meticulously careful with what they say in counselling their clients, all instructed never to be judgemental but to be available as a compassionate, listening ear. Contrary to your claim that these people are dishonest, they present the facts that abortionists avoid disclosing.



It is a fact that the invasion to a woman's body involved in extracting from her womb her unborn baby, regardless of the reasons involved, does involve considerable health risks to her (not to mention her baby). Even for a young mother, a full-term pregnancy is a far safer health-option than an abortion. Unfortunately, those who would rather we don't think about these things use numerous euphamisms to conceal the truth which might jeapordise the financial profit that their industry makes.



To attack compassionate volunteers, many of whom have themselves been the victims of this abuse, by claiming that they are motivated by deception seems to me quite proposterous. Many women who call these people are crying out for help - they don't need a quick-fix from an abortoire which is likely to leave them mentally and physically scarred.



As a tax-payer, it grieves me enormously that my dollar is used to fund this abuse. I am all behind having the government use my dollar to at least balance justice by funding volunteers seeking to fully inform pregnant women considering abortion, that these women might at least go ahead, knowing what will happen to them and what the risks are.



If you are truly concerned about the welfare of pregnant women who are faced with difficulties due to their pregnancies, we urge you to examine all the facts and not only those that support one agenda. I challenge you to contact Pregancy Help Australia yourselves, ask them for an interview and honestly listen to the full picture that they may be able to give you. Otherwise, your organisation would be guilty of disseminating emotive misinformation.



I look forward to hear from you whether you do indeed take up this challenge and what new information you discover that, perhaps, you had not been open to before. I also hope you will be honest enough to pass on this information to all who subscribe to your messages and are likely to have acted upon them.



Most sincerely,

Donrita Reefman

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Tallulah
June 9th, 2006

It frightens me that so many people are unable to see past the actual abortion process. These people are all screaming about how abortion has negative physical, psychological and emotional effects on women. Yes, that's true for a proportion, but not all of them. The numbers are extremely low for physical problems (remember people we are no longer in the age of backyard abortions) and proper counselling can help enormously with other problems. Nobody who has utilised these problems, putting them in emotive terms to make their argument sound more plausible, has recongised that an unwanted pregnancy is as likely if not more likely to induce the same sorts of problems. Post-natal depression effects plenty of women who planned their pregnancy, but also a lot who don't. If a girl or woman is in no position to bring up a child, for whatever reason, she and the child have to deal with the psychological traumas associated with adoption. I know about this first hand. And all this is in addition to the psychological trauma caused by carrying around an organism for 9 months that is constantly reminding you of all the fears you have that are associated with the unplanned child, 9 months of constant fear has to have a major impact on a woman or girl. Both options have their possible negative side effects, please, no matter what side you're on, don't conveniently gloss over things you don't want to recognise; and don't accuse people of doing so and then do it yourself like many of the people here who have outlined all the possible negative side effects of abortion while making going through with the unwanted pregnancy sound like a walk in the park.



A lot of people have also gotten upset at the use of the words Anti-Choice and Pro-Life. I agree, but for another reason. By saying those who advocate the choice of abortion are not in favour of life is a joke. Those who have said above that everyone has a choice to engage in the sexual act that puts them at risk of pregnancy needs to have a long hard look at society. There are a lot of women without the choice of saying no to sex, and I'm not talking about those who are raped in the sense of the word that we generally use it. Every woman who gives in to her partner so he'll stop bugging her and she can go to sleep, every teenage girl who is vulnerable to peer pressure that sleeps with her boyfriend because he tells her he'll break up with her, every woman who gives in to a man because the man has paid for dinner etc and is making them feel obligated to "make it up to them", there are so many situations where women do not have a real choice about whether to engage in the sex, they are coerced. So before you say all women have a choice, think again.



By the way, to the person who said "thank god (how ironic)" for getup: blame the people who distort religion for their misogynist views, not religion itself.

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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Part 1 of 4



Confusion reigns

There is an obvious state of confusion about different organizations which offer pregnancy counselling within Australia. The Australian Federation of Pregnancy Support Services, which trades as Pregnancy Help Australia provides such a service, as does Pregnancy Counselling Australia. There are no links between these 2 organisations. Please ensure that you are clear and specific about which agency you are referring when making comment on the quality or content of counselling as well as any complaints. Pregnancy Help Australia has received no complaints regarding the content of any counselling call.



Below is a statement on the counselling philosophy of Pregnancy Help Australia.



Australian Federation of Pregnancy Support Services Counselling

As Director of Counselling Services with the Australian Federation of Pregnancy Support Services Inc, I provide counselling training and resources to many pregnancy counselling organizations throughout Australia. Counsellors affiliated with the Federation undergo stringent assessments, ongoing training and clinical supervision as well as an annual accreditation process. The service meets, and in some cases exceeds, all minimum requirements set down for crisis counselling services. Our counsellors are professionally trained and supported to provide a non directive, non judgemental service which allows women to fully express their thoughts and feelings about all of their pregnancy options, including parenting, adoption and abortion.



Our service is repeatedly being accused of being a ‘false provider’ as we do not provide referrals for abortion. We are not a service for the provision of either medical advice or medical referrals. Therefore it is not within the scope of our practise to refer for abortion anymore than to refer for a blood test or an xray. Our focus is on ensuring that women have the opportunity to make fully informed decisions in an environment free of pressure.



Counselling Philosophy

The overall aim of our counselling process is to provide an environment in which women (and men) have an opportunity to express their thoughts and feelings and explore all of their options when faced with a pregnancy related issue. To this end we primarily focus on a person centred approach to counselling which encourages the development of a relationship based on respect for the dignity and worth of the caller, acceptance of the caller’s thoughts and feelings and respect for the autonomy of the caller to make the most appropriate decision for themselves in their situation.





Debbie Garratt RN

M.Ed, B.Ed, B.N. Cert Couns

Director of Counselling Services

Pregnancy Help Australia


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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Part 2 of 4

Counselling Process

At all times, it is the goal of the counselor to remain within the bounds of the client’s expressed wants and needs. To this end, whilst information may be offered to the client at appropriate times, it is always with respect and allows permission for the client to decline such information. For example, if a client is seeking information about her options, including an abortion, for an unplanned pregnancy, the counselor may ask, ‘would you like to know about the possible after effects of an abortion?’ or ‘would you like any information about how an abortion is performed?’ The client is free to decline such information and it is against the philosophy of our organization to ever provide unwanted information for the purpose of manipulation or shock.





Information in counselling situation

The information that counselors are able to provide to clients is very specific and is given to each counselor in writing. All information is referenced and only accurate and well researched and accepted data is provided as facts or as possibilities. If there is an issue of contention where debate about research findings is ongoing, clients are advised of the possibilities and the debate about the issue. Counsellors are not permitted to provide practical, health or medical information based on their own personal direct or indirect experience.



Information about abortion

Counsellors have accurate up to date information about abortion procedures, adverse physical and psychological reactions and foetal development available to share with clients should they want it. Counsellors are not able to make referrals for abortion as abortion is a decision that can only be made by a woman and her doctor and within strict medical guidelines. Clients asking for a referral will be politely and respectfully informed that the service is unable to provide such a referral but is able to spend some time with them to talk if they would like. There is a lot of research to suggest that many women feel they did not receive enough information about the possible adverse consequences of having an abortion. As an organization with no vested interest in the provision of abortion services, we are ideally placed to provide accurate and sensitive information to women considering this option.



Debbie Garratt

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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Part 3

Conflicting values and beliefs

Abortion is a highly emotive topic and one that evokes strong values and beliefs across all sectors of the community. Counsellors are taught to be very aware of their own values and beliefs with regard to abortion and ensure they are appropriately debriefed and supported should they experience personal conflict with regard to any particular call or client. Counsellors with strong ‘pro life’ views generally hold this view with regard to the life and dignity of the woman as well as her baby and it is this value that encourages the counselor to uphold and respect the woman whatever her choice. Counsellors are not to use their counselling role to push their particular view regardless of its basis.



Counsellor competency

Counsellors are required to attend a minimum number of hours of initial counselling training and to meet a basic level of competency in active listening and person centred counseling skills. After initial training, counsellors undergo stringent competency assessments before advancing to a role as an independent counsellor. Each year, counsellors are required to maintain a minimum standard of skill and to achieve a minimum number of points to achieve annual reaccreditation. Points are accrued by attendance at training, distance education and other personal and professional development activities. Counsellors are also required to undertake minimum standards of documented professional and/or peer clinical supervision each year.











Code of Ethics

All counsellors must abide by a Code of Ethics which encompasses minimum standards of training, personal and professional standards and administrative requirements. This Code of Ethics must be read, understood and signed by each counsellor on an annual basis.



Breaches of the Code

A complaints process is in place to ensure that any breaches of the Code of Ethics are dealt with efficiently and professionally. A copy of the Code of Ethics or the Complaints Procedures is available on request.

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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Part 4

Conclusion

As with all consumers of counselling, women with an unintended pregnancy have the right to compassionate, non judgemental counselling provided by professionally trained counsellors with no vested interest, particularly of a financial nature in the woman’s decision.

As with all consumers of medical services, women have the right to full disclosure of all risk factors that she may deem important to her future. It is not the right of a provider to withhold information that an individual woman may find very significant to her decision making process.

Pro abortion advocates need to be advised to stop clouding the real issues of what constitutes valid choice for women by espousing the rhetoric of ‘anti-choice’ when referring to agencies which provide not only effective and professional counselling, but also ongoing emotional and material support and in many cases post abortion counselling.

Abortion providers should be prohibited from advertising which suggests that they offer counselling to woman about all pregnancy options, when they are clearly biased toward encouraging a client to pay for the service which they are, after all in business to sell, abortion.

Pro abortion advocates should be prohibited from advertising which suggests that they offer ‘non directive’ counselling services if their own bias is toward abortion.

Governments, both State and Commonwealth should show a greater commitment to the wellbeing of women in enabling them true ‘choice’ when pregnant by financial support to agencies which do provide real and practical solutions and support for women. Most of these agencies rely heavily, if not totally on volunteer staff and community donations.

Rather than debating the virtues or hazards of new methods of procuring abortion such as RU486, which by its very nature creates an even greater burden on women, who are forced to face the physical and psychological pain of a slow abortion process in the ‘privacy’ of their own homes, we should be opening a new debate. One which questions why pro abortion advocates, under the guise of ‘feminism’ are being allowed to get away with the kind of paternalistic attitude associated with the withholding of information which would enable women to be fully informed. The very attitude which the true and early feminists, who, by the way were pro life, tried to empower our society to move away from.



Debbie Garratt RN

M.Ed, B.Ed, B.N. Cert Couns

Director of Counselling Services

Pregnancy Help Australia

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Lilian McCombs
June 9th, 2006

Debbie,



As many have stated, this debate really isn’t about the pros and cons of abortion at all. It’s about extending the safeguards most consumers take for granted to ensure standards of truthful information, non-deceptive advertising and professional advice.



A pregnancy counselling service that wishes to support only those options other than abortion has every right to offer its services, but why be deceptive about this stance? Wouldn’t it be better for all women who contacted you to know up front what kind of counselling they could expect?



This raises the question, why has the Australian Federation of Pregnancy Support services removed the term ‘Pro Life’ from its name? Why does your Service Charter use misleading language, promoting your “professional services for all pregnancy related issues” and “non-directive counselling”, and make no mention of your anti-abortion stance?



A couple of other points.



Firstly, “false providers” isn’t our term; it’s the one that was used by the National Health and Medical Research Council to describe services that publicly claim to provide neutral pregnancy counselling to women, but which have the agenda of ensuring their pregnancies are continued to term.



Secondly, your organisation offers internal training courses - but surely regulations requiring a minimum standard of formal qualifications and independent accreditation for counsellors would benefit all service providers and the women who contact them.



Thirdly, you write that, “We are not a service for the provision of either medical advice or medical referrals.” This is true. But your organisation appears to have no problem advising about the medical dangers of abortion. Is your organisation's view that a woman should receive no medical information about abortion, other than why she shouldn't have one?



Heather Sertori, your organisation's former president, quotes a colleague to "explain and clarify our pro-life counselling stance that we will not refer directly or indirectly for abortion.”



(www.actrtla.org.au/abortion/bookab/sertori.htm)



“I believe that if we send an abortion-seeking client to another professional or government or non-government agency or hospital for abortion counselling, and we do not know whether or not that person at the other end is going to be 100% pro-life, then I would regard that as a soft abortion referral. I believe that if we say to a client we don't refer for abortion, but we refer the client to the telephone book or some other neutral collection of information, then I would believe that that would be an indirect abortion referral. If we are a pro-life organisation, and we do believe that unborn life is precious, we have to be very careful along what path we steer our clients.”



Is this still your organisation's current position?

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Anonymous
June 9th, 2006

Perhaps you could explain why the nhmrc position only "draft".

Also, as regards negative information, I suggest people look at the Informed Consent form on the Planned Parenthood of Australia site. It seems as if it's OK to allow doctors to protect themselves from liability but don't tell the pregnant woman in a counselling session?

For this debate to have any balance, the attempt to regulate pregnancy counselling should also deal with the many cases of poor conduct in "counselling" in abortion clinics immediately prior to the procedure, as acknowledged by childrenbychoice.

Counselling in any area, and managing bias, is far more complex than this campaign and reproductive choice and the two pro-choice providers imply. This is why, for instance, the code of ethics for the Australian Association of Social Workers is as comprehensive. The accreditation of non-directive counselling won't hurt either.

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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Thank you for the opportunity to provide some clarity on some of these issues. I would like to address your ‘other points’ first.



Your claim that the term ‘false providers’ originated with the NHMRC is an oft cited, but inaccurate one. This term owes its origins to a paper authored by pro abortion activists in a paper sent to the NHRMC which was rejected by them in 1995. Amongst other questionable activities, this paper recommended that women be denied access to ultrasound images of their unborn babies, due to ‘the possible emotional power of the images produced..’, a rather paternalistic, disempowering recommendation.



We do offer internal training courses which is the usual practice for all volunteer counselling organizations throughout Australia, including Lifeline. Our training meets national accreditation standards and is conducted by trained, supported and supervised trainers.



With regard to medical advice, there is a difference between the giving of general information and ‘advising’ women according to their personal circumstances. The information that our counselors are authorized to provide is strictly controlled, evidence based and is presented to women as such and then, only if they want or ask for such information. Anecdotal or personal stories are not permitted to be ‘shared’ with clients. The process of counselling is quite separate from the provision of referrals or services and should not be confused. Our counsellors skills are based on a person centred, non directive model which aims to encourage women to explore their own issues, as they experience them, whether their issues encompass continuing or terminating a pregnancy. It is not appropriate, and in fact it is illegal in most states of Australia for a counsellor to make an abortion referral. A woman would need to seek such a referral from her medical practitioner. The idea that if a woman doesn’t get a referral from a pregnancy counselling line, that this somehow ‘deceives’ her is a little patronizing. After all, abortion services are widely available and are often on the same page of the phone book as pregnancy counselling or support services.



I do not accept that our organization is in any way deceptive of women. All counsellors, whether paid or unpaid are required to avoid imposing their values on clients, particularly is such an act is designed to manipulate or coerce the client. There is no evidence to suggest that because a counsellor is ‘pro life’ that he or she is more likely to impose his or her values on a client than someone who is ‘pro choice’.



Part 2 to come

Debbie

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Debbie Garratt
June 9th, 2006

Part 2 (sorry the character count keeps getting away from me)



Our charter is clear and concise and the fact that our counsellors do not provide abortion referrals has no impact on the process of counselling for the reasons previously stated. Clients can expect a professional, empathic counsellor when they call our service. If they are in any way unhappy with the service they receive, we encourage them to contact us so that any complaints can be thoroughly investigated.



The article written by Heather Sertori was written in 1993, many years before our current organization provided a national counselling line or received any funding.



I am more than happy to clarify any further questions you may have.

Debbie Garratt

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Cait Calcutt
June 9th, 2006

Debbie Garrett's explanation of her organisations counselling approach seems reasonable on the surface. She states that organisation seeks to provide a safe environment for women to express their feelings and is respectful of the person's automony to make an appropriate decision. THis should mean that AFPSS counsellors role is to facilitate the discussion and provide information to assist a woman to make her own decision if she requests it. When women are making a decision about whether to continue of terminate a pregnancy, they generally do want to know information about each option to assist in their decision-making. If a counsellor provides false and misleading information about one option then they are by default influencing the woman's decision. THis is not appropriate or ethical.



Callers to anti-choice pregnancy counselling telephone lines such as AFPSS and Pregnancy Counselling Australia repeatedly report that they given information about abortion being linked to breast cancer - a scientifically false claim and one that distresses many women.



Why is it ok for AFPSS to have infromation and links on their website supporting one of the options (continuing the pregnancy), but not information about the abortion option.



If an organisation really respects a woman's right to make a decision about her pregnancy, then shouldn't they provide information and support on all options - abortion, adoption and parenting?



But this isn't the real issue - pregnancy counselling agencies like the AFPSS and Pregnancy Counselling Australia do not advertise that they have an anti-choice philosophy. Looking at their adverts in the yellow pages, you would think they offer genuine support and information on options - that's why women facing an unplanned pregnancy and considering their options call them. It is these organisations right to hold whatever philosophy they choose - but they should be honest and upfront in how they represent themselves to women who are often are in emotionally difficicult situations and are reaching out for help.



Cait Calcutt

Children by Choice


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Tahlia Carcarello
June 10th, 2006

Deb Lloyd, You spoke to me at PCA and I am really glad that you took the opportunity to "test" the service provided by PCA. I want to keep my comments short and simple: I (as do other counsellors) have a responsibility to every woman who calls the PCA line to provide them with care. This idea of care does not extend to refferral for services that may harm them or their unborn baby.



I am a postgraduate psychology student not long off from graduating and I am very critical of ALL research due to extensive involvement in conducting research so I ensure I give women the best information I have at hand - unfortunate for the abortion industry many women are SHOCKED to hear these facts and no woman in 2006 should be shocked to know that a supposedly "routine" procedure involves (sadly this is also the case for women who have had a previous abortion!) - clearly there is a propagation of lies and it coming from those who count their pennies everytime a woman makes the aborion choice!



I would also like to add that for the most part the information I share with women about abortion is "from my experience in speaking to women who have had an abortion....." And I can assure you that you won't hear from these women the way I and my colleagues do, because they are ashamed and as they tell us time and time again, they put on a happy face because that's what society expects from a woman who has been "lucky" enough to have a "safe" abortion.



Sincerely,

Tahlia



P.S apologies I really couldn't keep it short!

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Kate White
June 10th, 2006

This is getting ridiculous. The point here is that this organisation receives government funding to carry out it's purpose no? Governments regulate public health, we all know that, and in passing accreditation etc, Pregnancy Counselling Australia have merely passed the benchmarks that the Government sets as it's minimal level of acceptable operation. The issue for debate here is a tricky one as this is certainly not the only public health support service out there, and who else is going to fund them? Me? You? Unfortunately that won't happen. And what is the problem then with this particular agency receiving their funding from the Howard Govt? None really except that it's not clearly disclosed anywhere (but then these things rarely are), and that the counsellors are offering information that, while it may not be wholly wrong, it's not wholly right. And that, I feel, is the issue. We have been living in a time where half-of-the-story has constantly led the counry down the wrong path, it's Howard's forte! Iraq, IR Laws, the Nuclear debate, our troops in Afghanistan, and the list goes on. The debate here is not so much about the ever contentious issue of abortion, but about our right to know where our information is coming from, who's agenda it supports, and who's footing the bill. That way at least we, the public, can make informed decisions from the information in front of us. A seldom held privilege in Australia, the media seeks to keep us uninformed, the newspapers mainly designed to keep us mediocre, university places so expensive that most can't afford to educate themselves, then false agencies of help for those seeking information. That's the debate all, keep your eyes on the prize and don't buy into the lofty notions expressed by those trying to defend their corner, it's a simple debate.

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Carol Lockyer
June 10th, 2006

10th June 2006

Women, especially young ones should be able to recieve un-biased,factual medical advice. I heartily support this Get-Up action.

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bela johnson
June 12th, 2006

Women, particularly in such a vulnerable state, should not be duped by fake helpful advice. An anti-abortion stance is misogynist. No-one wants abortions, but they need to be available for people unable, unwilling, incapable of having a child right now. Bringing an unwanted child into the world is worse crime than having an abortion. I'm sure 'God' will understand this dilemma, if 'he's' really a god of love and forgiveness. We need to link pregnancy, wanted or unwanted, with the sex act. We need to tone down the sex hype which is overtly encouraged by the advertising and film industry, and by a government and people who ignore the obvious. Women cannot get pregnant without men, so particularly, educate MEN as to what else they can do with their dipsticks. Educate male and female as to how to take responsibility for themselves, each other. The accidental creation of a new person as a result of an act of lust is a very real possibility, and NOT a clever thing to do. There are lots of other sexy ways to have a good time - teach people to be really creative, and hopefully reduce the number of abortions.

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Chris O`Reilly
June 15th, 2006

It is very rare for damage to a womans body due to a pregnancy termination especially if the termination is done early. All this red tape delaying an abortion though can mean that there is more likely to be damage because the foetus is bigger by the time the abortion is done. I reading this article makes me sick on how the clinics are misleading these already distressed women.

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Kate Mannix
June 15th, 2006

1. AFPSS, PCA and anyone else can believe anything they want to. They just can't expect taxpayers to pay for it.



2. AFPSS says PCA is nothing to do with them. Maybe. PCA claims it exists on donations. But there is no 'donations' facility on PCA's site. Possibly AFPSS is their sole donor?!



3. AFPSS' has counsellors who also counsel for PCA; Abortion Grief Counselling; Birthline; McKillop Family Services; Good Shepherd Family Services; Centacare; Caroline Chisholm Centres; Open Doors; the Billings Family Life Centres (getting spooky now!) Survivors of Abortion and the thoroughly Catholic Natural Family Planning Organisation, which is the 'fertility education' agency of the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference. (They receive nearly $1m annually!). Tell me how 'non directive' is possible JUST on days when you work for the publicly funded AFPSS, given you must be explicitly pro life when you roll up to the Billings Family Life Centres?



4. Pro life only means pro life when we are talking about abortion. Pro life morphs into 'protecting our way of life' when we are talking about killing little children in Iraq.



5. "Pro life" really means A Return to Order. That Order prefers men to be in authority; women to be domestic and compliant; Catholics (of an ultra doctrinaire persuasion - as well as their fellow travellers) to get better health and education than everyone else and the re-establishing of a proletariat who will receive 'Charity' rather than welfare. This Order also thinks men get a raw deal in child custody arrangements, that all feminism is dangerous extremism and that western liberalism is the root of all evil. They don't like Ritalin, do like phonics and home schooling, want a return to a 'Western Canon' in the teaching of English and hate the enivironmental movement.



None of this is about the innocent unborn. If it were, then every, single discretionary dollar would be diverted to save every, single embryo. But it is not.



If this were about the innocent unborn, there would be energy and intelligence directed at preventing unwanted pregnancies. Men would be counselled about pressuring women into sex; contraception might be made available; crimes of sexual violence would attract the severest penalties. But none of this happens.



The funding of AFPSS, Caroline Chishom, Foundation for Human Development, and, yes, the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference for their pro life activities are, I believe, from the government's point of view, simple pork barrelling for an important lobby.



But the pro life movement has a wide agenda.



And that is okay. But they should pay for it themselves. They should also be forced tell the truth, as Senator Stott Despoja's Bill requires.



Support the campaign.


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Chris O`Reilly
June 15th, 2006

There are of course men who pressure women into sex, but not all men, so one cannot tell straight away wether a man has potential personality to pressure women into doing what they dont want to do unless they build up a reputation. Be careful not to paint everybody with the same tar brush, what you are referring to are the alpha males of this world. Alpha males are the violent men, who for some strange reason is more attractive to vulnerable women because alpha males generally have more guts to do things, they are the ones who are more likely to bully. That doesnt mean that non alpha males have no guts, it is just that alpha males have that certain character of dominant behaviour.

I have met some real creeps in my life, one bloke I knew messed around with some of my female friends which had pissed me off that I was psyched out, If I saw him that day I would have decked him (I would not have done it but I was really hyped that afternoon).

Sorry that this is sidetracked to the main issue, Its that I cant see that it is a solution to council men what to do with their behaviour to women unless you know that they are an offender. Really, what you do to sex offenders is throw them in gaol, thats it! Another thing to remember is that it is not only rape that spawns the need for abortion, it can even be as involuntary as a failed means of contraception, causing an unwanted pregnancy.

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Barbara Kerr
June 19th, 2006

No, Chris - she's not talking about 'alpha males', she's talking about regular males. Yes, we do need to counsel men that it is right and proper to go have a w*nk if the woman is not interested. (If she then wants to complain about that then you can certainly argue that she made her choice.) No court is going to throw a man into jail for claiming what society, including supposedly devout religious people, believes is rightfully his.

[* added by moderator]

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Amelia McNamara
June 20th, 2006

I was under the impression that the issue here is; do women (and men for that matter) have the right to an informed, transparent and unbiased counselling service, at a time in their lives, when they are faced with entering the most important job of their lives - To give birth and raise our future generations? I signed my name to the petition because my answer is a definate YES!

There is a saying that "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" (william Ross Wallace) in reference to the influence that parents and in particular mothers have over the next generation and their wellbeing. Even though my own beliefs mean that I would not and did not have an abortion when faced with an early pregnancy, I also believe that it would be best if the person rocking the cradle had made a decision that they were happy with, and felt they had control over, than someone who was not at peace with the decision made.

As a member of a family who fostered children I have seen first hand the result of unwanted children. Some of these beautiful little souls had been tortured, molested, exposed to drugs such as heroine and alcohol (in the womb and outside), and malnorished. I have seen the effect that this has had on them physically and emotionally. Some of them rose above the challenges life gave them and others continue to struggle. Contrastingly I have also seen the pure tears of joy on the face of adoptive parents as they came to pick up their new baby and on the face of birth mothers who decided to keep their baby after all.

As a young 21 year old starting my final year of University I became pregnant in a fairly new relationship. I already knew that I would keep the baby, and would deal with whatever came my way because that's who I was, and I had stated as much to my partner (now my husband) before establishing a sexual relationship. The hand that rocked my cradle belonged to a very stong women, who enabled me to grow into a strong and independent women who knew her own values, and was confident enough in them not to have to push them onto others. I was however faced with very biased advice from a person in a position of authority. The Doctor I saw was very pushy in suggesting I should get a "termination" as she put it. Even after I had stressed that that was not what I wanted. I now have three beautiful children and am working slowly through a Master's degree in Psychology. Had I however, been a soul who was alot more uncertain and perhaps younger and consequently more open to others advice, I may very well have made the wrong decision for me, and who knows what the consequences could have been.

My point is that there should not be any bias in counselling situations, wether towards abortion or towards keeping a baby. Counselling services should be there to support the person in their decision making process, no matter what that decision ends up being. So much harm can be done if this process is not respected more.

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brian farrell
June 20th, 2006

Oh dear me! Chris and Barb's, ouch!

Comments are surely a timely signal to close down this comment line. I have learned much from reading this and as a male I'd like to say thanks to all those women out there who kept their babies despite the incredible difficulties they may have endured. May I also offer my condolances to those women who have had to terminate their pregnancies. I believe in Karma and reincarnation. Therefore, having a difficult childhood can be a very meaningful experience. I know I had one!

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Tracey Cole
June 21st, 2006

Every human has a right to make their own choices. So many of us are too busy to hear the stories of fellow human beings that in times of distress they need to turn to a stranger to help make their decisions. Mostly they just want someone to listen. It is morally and legally irresponsible for the government to fund a service that is not independent on such a sensitive issue. IF the service is funded by the government then this certainly needs to be addressed. However there is really no detailed evidence provided on the nature of the alleged gov funding. Certainly I would support further research into this. On a personal note I know how difficult decisions around pregnancy are - I too like Amelia had to make decisions that were unplanned, unforeseen and unavoidable - I was lucky enough to have wonderful family support to help me go through the consequences of whichever choice I made - some people are not so lucky - and we as a humane society are obligated to care for our fellow humans in an ethical, unbiased, caring and supportive way - to enable a healthy choice without hidden personal agendas being shoved down their throats - either with good intentions or not.

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Shana L
June 21st, 2006

Tracey - it's not in dispute that the Australian government is funding the Australian Federation of Pregnancy support services (or Pregnancy Help Australia, the other name they use). PHA has admitted it. Heartbeat International (their overseas partner) has admitted it. The Federal government has admitted it. The Federal Government's stated goal is to lower the number of abortions in Australia, and they don't care what damage they cause in the process.

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Molly H
June 21st, 2006

The AFPSS has received $1,163,684 in Government funding since 1999 according to figures cited by Reproductive Choice Australia from the Dept of Health and Ageing.

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Chris O`Reilly
June 22nd, 2006

Barb Kerr,

Let me rephrase for you. I have met young men who talk about getting a chick drunk to make it easier for him to get his way, I see this as the closest thing to rape, except the woman does not remember much as a result of entoxication. There are even more blokes who oppose the act. I do not like entoxicating people to get my own way. like a major number of nice blokes, it would be more rewarding when romance is used instead as having a sober person as company spawns a conversation, thus leading to a better relationship.

In a sexual partnership, of course sex cannot proceed if one partner objects, and yes those blokes who do get a bit pushy need to be spoken to, and also have his partner involved in the counselling to rectify viewpoints between the two. What I mean on this area is that you cant just shove every man through a meat grinder as the "good" men just doesnt need the extra hassles.

May I repeat that unwanted pregnancies are not just caused by rape, it can also be caused from failed contraception. Another thing Kate and Barb, you seem to speak as if it is only men who enjoy sex, I am sorry but many women enjoy it too, though I do feel sorry about those unlucky women who have trouble reaching the holy grail.

Besides the point, there will always be biasing, thats what makes us human. I just object to the uneven treatment between genders, and object to pressure of somebody who is in crisis such as a woman who faces an unexpected pregnancy.

Counselling should not aim at leading a pregnant woman to only one decision, instead review what future may be at stake, her current situation, and wether her boyfriend or husband is ready too if the pregnancy is kept. Personal health should also be reviewed. Last but not least, comforting helps making decisions a whole lot smoother.



As for Alpha males, generally alpha makes are those men who are full of themselves, lie a lot to make the target woman believe what he wants her to believe, and goes for the prey when he sees the oportunity. Alpha males are the ones who bully other blokes, and often women too. They are more likely to commit a criminal offence. They act like that they have nothing to lose because they just dont care, they are arseholes of this world. I bet that most of those countries that exploit all womens rights (where they cant even go on the streets without a cloak) are full of Alpha males.

Often their ego is astonishing, (due to high self confidence and arrogance) they are the blokes who you can also refer to as Yobbos.

Which makes the rest of us blokes look boring. That is what an alpha male is, watch out for them.

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Chris O`Reilly
June 22nd, 2006

Oh and I was carried as an unwanted child due to failed contraception. I was lucky that I have a committed dad who wanted to be a parent so took custody of me. I would have otherwise gone to foster care.

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Kate Mannix
June 22nd, 2006

Chris, of course no one thinks ALL men need counselling to stop them forcing women into sex. I was trying to make two points: one, that strategies to PREVENT unwanted pregnancy (beyond JUST SAY NO) hardly exist; two, that it needs to become socially unacceptable for any man to exert unacceptable sexual power over a woman.



There are many yobbos out there who still drink and drive; but the change in the law years ago DID change the attitudes of a great many people. If we are serious about reducing unwanted pregnancy (surely preferable to abortion) then ALL strategies should be tried, including sex education and the free availability of contraception. Why shouldn't men see unwanted pregnancy as their issue, too?

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Tania Shipman
June 23rd, 2006

However a woman falls pregnant, whether from carelessness, rape or failed contraception and until we have a 100% fail proof contraception device (and why isn't money being put into research for that I ask) a woman MUST have a choice.



Only telling a woman the possible medical complications of an abortion leaves out all the possible medical complications of a full-term pregnancy.



I was pregnant at 28, the father chose not to be involved and I checked ALL possibilities. At the time I did call a pregnancy counselling service. I was lucky enough to get one - 13 years ago - who was able to give me unbiased information on all 3 options - abortion, adoption and keeping the baby.



Pregnancy counselling means that - counselling about the fact you are pregnant. Calling a counselling service is not about 'oh i don't really want an abortion" it means, I'm pregnant and I've got questions.



A counselling service funded by government sources has no right to 'push their agenda'. They should offer unbiased counselling, providing support and advice that allows the woman to make an educated choice. It's not pro or anti choice agendas that should be pushed - it should be HER choice that is supported.



I am pro - choice - not pro or anti life - I am pro choice for what is best for the mother.



Tania

PS - my son is now 13 years old.

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Chris O`Reilly
June 23rd, 2006

Thats right Tania, Pro choice sounds like the most pragmatic approach, stop the deception, and work on reviewing all options, not create a set of iron rails.

I am currently 22 (Bouncers at clubs still ask me for ID because I look 16) and still learning how the world works, but I still have my views.

We need Pro choice for counselling!

And a comment that fits what Kate Mannix said, have sexual power over your own self, not others.

Another point women and men are just as capable on inflicting damage to each other, I have seen domestic violence caused by a woman before, I have seen my mother do things to my dad that are best not mentioned, I remember my dad with his face opened up at one stage while there was never even a mark left on her, cant remember much because this happened before I was 4 years old which was the time of the break up.

This is one evidence that a child that is unwanted by at least one of the parents is more likely to witness domestic violence.

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Peter Reefman
June 29th, 2006

Didn't any of you read Debbie Garratt's comments with an open mind? Pregnancy Support gives the facts that Abortion providers prefer to (deceptively) hide from their potential customers (of course!)

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Jerildene Smith
July 3rd, 2006

By the way, to the person who said "thank god (how ironic)" for getup: blame the people who distort religion for their misogynist views, not religion itself.



Posted by Tallulah at 10:17:31 AM





I am the person that wrote the comment where that quote is referred to.



My point was (in terms of being ironic) that "God" seems to be on everyone's side....



I have to say that I agree with Tania. I am pro choice.

Regardless of whether you sit on once side of the fence or the other, EVERYONE deserves to be able to have the choice and all options explained TRUTHFULLY to them. No matter what personal bias you may have.



I may or may not fall pregnant in the future either through consensual or non consensual sex (can never tell what the future holds). However when the time comes I would prefer to be able to have the choice and listed options that is best for ME not the person on the other end of the phone etc.


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Jodi Peskett
March 9th, 2007

Ok I have a few problems with where this blog is going. Firstly the issue here is not about our own moral positions with regards to abortion, rather it is about a councelling service who is misrepresenting themselves. I think it is great that we are having the disscusion but lets remember there are two seperate issues here. As for Kev Wills who says this is not an issue that getup should be addressing and that it is "rubish... drop it", just because something makes you uncomfortable Kev does not mean it should be ignored. What a stupid thing to say! What about all those women out there facing the decision to have an abortion or not, Im sure they do not think it is "rubish"!

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Helen
June 8th, 2006

The issue here isn't just abortion it is also contraception. Pro-life organizations are also opposed to reliable contraception and sex education, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself:



http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asm76/news/PressArticlesandSpeeches/Articles/2005/TheCapitalTimes1.htm



http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2408/context/ourdailylives



http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-35-4130-1,00.html

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Helen
June 8th, 2006

The issue here isn't just abortion it is also contraception. Pro-life organizations are also opposed to reliable contraception and sex education, don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself:



http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asm76/news/PressArticlesandSpeeches/Articles/2005/TheCapitalTimes1.htm



http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2408/context/ourdailylives



http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-35-4130-1,00.html

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Notborn Yesterday
June 23rd, 2007

"Pro-Choice"...mm.
Sure you have a choice. That's because your mother didn't steal it from you. Let that one sink in.

I'm of at least average intelligence, but one thing that does escape me is how so many people can think that killing a child not yet born - ie destroying another person's body - is all about a woman's rights over her OWN body (or lifestyle, even).

We all have the right to choose (in every area of life), between right and wrong.

With every right there comes an equal responsibility.

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Pamela Hayes
June 27th, 2007

Very sad for the unwanted street kids who are a product of this type of Tony Abbot-style Christian right wing propaganda.

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jasmine
July 12th, 2007

Oh wow...your information is as biased as the pregnancy centres false information...this is an article out of Marie Claire...a 'reputable' source of information and facts Im sure...

What I do know is that their method or technique might be askew but they are there to genuinely help people. Why dont you find out how these women were after their abortions and lets see what was more traumatic..

These counselling services might be ill-trained or ill-equipped but they are genuinely trying to help people...that has to count for something...oh, and why should they need to give a referral to an abortion clinic, you dont need one to get in...


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Jolanta Noj-Matheson
July 27th, 2007

i would like my daughter to have a choice in what she decided to do if it ever happen to her. This is a immoral and wrong way to act. I bet you that not one of these people involved would willingly take care of all the babies is the mother could not do it so herself.

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Andrea Ellis
July 31st, 2007

This "counselling clinic" is a typical example of how we have allowed our government ministers to hijack parliament with their own moralistic and religious views. As a country we have been proud to keep church and state seperate but this has slowly been dwindled away. This counselling clinic should be closed and a our government ministers should hang their heads in shame. It matters not what your personal feelings are, women have a right to correct and full information from any counselling clinic and this one fails abismally. Our ministers must realise that they are elected to represent the people, that means the majority not the minority, and as such the majority have voted for legal abortions to be undertaken in a safe and supportive environment. What we have now is a government totally devoid of compassion, sucking up the religious zealots who also show a complete lack of comapssion. All we are asking for is non-biased correct information to be disseminated - obviuosly something this clinic cannot provide because they obviously do not have trained counsellors taking the calls; a properly trained counselor would not give this type of advice and would not lie about the medical implications as has occurred here.

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Libby Knight
August 5th, 2007

It is difficult finding out about available services but the local health service is often a good place to start. They should be able to direct you to appropriate services. Women's Health nurses are employed by local area health services and are qualified in pregnancy counselling, they are able to discuss the issues from a unbiased point of view. This allows the women to really explore her options. The are also Women's Health Centre's based in the city and some country areas who can also be of assistance.

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Gwionic
October 24th, 2007

Covertly and overtly imposing ones beliefs, views and perspectives on others is disrespectful, coercive, inappropriate and in many instances criminal. Relusionists’ have no right to impose their values on other citizens of a secular society.

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veronica
March 18th, 2008

i believe that we all need to be educated much more, to understand the effects of abortion (to terminate)to a defensless human life. Pro-Life is a choice. Pro-Choice is Pro-death, death is their choice. If we are educated and offer more help and compassion to the person in need, hope will grow in them, things will get better, and another life that will be born of their flesh could not bring misery, but only hope and happiness,.

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Ez
March 19th, 2008

As a result of rape i concur fully that a pregnancy be terminated or nulled the following day if the rape is reported, but as in the examples of Karen and her husband, and the woman in her early 20's, if you consented to the sex that produced the pregnancy it is your responsibility to go ahead with it full stop, if you knowingly do it without the required protection you reap the consequences, abortion should not be an option. As i said in the cases of rape, i fully agree, if the person reports it immediately then the morning after pill can be administered, if not then abortion should be an option for them. But in a general 'unplanned' pregnancy, too bad, if you are too dumb to protect yourself or plan it then it is your problem. And as in the last example with the young woman, they dont cut the baby up, they simpy pierce its heart with what looks like a crochet needle to stop it beating.
Maybe better and un prudeish sex education at school could help considerably with these people wanting abortions from unplanned pregnancy, teach them that protection is the best defence and make condom vending, etc easier to access.

Much more can be done than simply legalising all abortions.

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